Introducing the new Spectator Arts blog

SUSAN HILL

I had a look. This is not an arts blog it is about pop music and pop culture. Glastonbury is noisy pop music, it has nothing to do with anything within a thousand miles of art. If the Spectator online wants to have such a blog at least signal it for what it is.

Nicholas

Echo Susan Hill. This is culture as defined by the BBC's Culture Show - Yoof Culture. Pop music, trendy ethnicity and alternative lifestyles.

Beer Moth

You have just got to be kidding with this. The arts section is to be run by one of our fleeting trolls?

Well THX, bring it on. Let's see what you've got.

AndyinBrum

I think it covers all type of art, there's paintings and everything

Out of interest, could you define your definition of art please?

Pete Hoskin

CoffeeHousers all: it's worth pointing out that what you're reading so far is the TFAD archive from its pre-Speccie incarnation. You may or may not like what you see there, but it might be worth giving it chance over here. As Simon and Scott say in their introductory post, they're looking to extend the scope dramatically.

egh

You have to be joking (and not very well, at that!).

biggestaspidistra

ten pages in and no art at all except a visit to "a friend's gallery' in King's Cross showing an artist making work from the 1970s. Very depressing, thank you.

JohnAnt

Touching From a Distance. Pretty Alienating Close Up.

AndyinBrum

As long as they don't extend their radiohead bit, I'll be happy

Austin Barry

The blog is as ghastly as its pretentious name.

It seems to have been written by those two twits who star in Private Eye's 'It's Tough up North London' strip.

And its twee conspiratorial tone which seems to suggest that we are all 'Glasto' freaks is just plain annoying.

Marc Nash

Nicholas, please note the correct pejorative term is no longer "Yoof" but in fact "Yute", usually preceded by "der"

Beau Bumwad

'Touching cloth' more like.

Andy Carpark

'Pon my soul. This is the very blog you reach if you click on 'Clive Davis' Confab' and like Clive's blog before it, it will be left to sink unnoticed into the primordial 'Glasto' swamp of eternal adolescence.

Have fun jabbering inanely away to each other, Simon and Scott, with your string vests and your baseball caps on back to front.

The Bellman

If nothing else, 'TFAD' shows the potential pay-off for THX's tireless self-promotion and pushiness on these pages, as well as the yawning gulf between the editors of this site and most of the commentators. These guys are clearly desperate for 'validation' by the mainstream metropolitan media, so on that level at least, well done.

On a wider view, however, this appears to be merely another indifferent-quality limb of the sprawling, omnivorous and increasingly undiscriminating Spectator media leviathan. When the Spectator was a right-wing political journal, it did politics and a sensible and representative section of 'the arts' perfectly well, and with an identifiable 'take' and style. Now it has spawned the sub-Sainsburys Food Magazine pull-out 'Scoff', the press release regurgitation of the Luxury goods 'specials' and the Business magazine, less incisive than The economist and more expensive than City a.m. But if I want to know about these other subjects, there are plenty of better written and more interesting sources: why this desperation to have a finger in every pie?

And why divert resources from your core business? The Spectator now covers all of these things, in unremarkable, and frequently barely competent, fashion; and its political analysis, with a few notable exceptions, is increasingly indistinguishable from Prospect. (Charles Moore and Taki are the John Prescott and Denis Skinner of the magazine.) The Spectator isn't a Swiss Army knife, a tool for doing lots of things adequately. Everything it used to do well is now done far better - if less frequently - by Standpoint and The new criterion.

(And breathe...)

Rant over.

Nicholas

Marc Nash, I stand corrected and thank you! Presumably that is as in "der Yute ov terday"?

PayDirt

The Bellman makes the correct point about the Spectator's recent pull out sections. And they just destroy the magazine's stapling as I rip them out in disgust and in the bin they straightaway go. The Spectator is literally falling apart (and I do mean literally what with the yanked out staples).

Austin Barry

"Touching ourselves" may be more apposite.

lescam

I've stopped trying to yank out the offending "specials" because of the stapling problem. I now merely ignore them. They are not worth the paper they're printed on. If they are put in just to make the Speccie look bigger and thicker, and therefore better value, fair enough. But don't expect us to actually read them. That would be going too far.

Adrian Sells

I think the above comments say it all.
The old Cappuccino blog was a little underused and quirky, but this is no replacement - at least as it stands: it's just not about "the arts". At best it is about popular culture.
I will watch to see whether the coverage expands, Pete. But you should keep an eye on the hits to this new blog and judge it in due course.

SUSAN HILL

Phew. I was sure the wrath of the commentators was going to come down on me but delighted people have agreed. In reaction,I plan to blog about some of the arts myself occasionally from now on. You will not read about Glasto or Bands or the Turner Prize and it will probably not be up-to-the-minute because I am not London based. But I do go there especially to exhibitions and the galleries. And there is a remarkable amount online for those of us interested in pictures. The fact that the Spec has taken up with this trendy yoof lefty bought-in blog has galvanised me into a response.
I wonder if I`ll get a salary rise ?

AndyinBrum

How many coffee housers does it take to change a light bulb?

Change?
Change!?
CHANGE!!??!!!!

EC

"Hello, hello. What's going on? What's all this shouting? We'll have no trouble here."
Edward Tattysrup

My fellow residents of Royston Vasey,

I thought I saw wrinkly rocker Mick Jagger sat next to President Clinton during USA vs Ghana. Hell, none of us are getting any younger. I'm just about to turn 60 and, like the slowly bloating Jezza from Chipping Clarkson, I believe that the music mostly died in 1979. Punk rockers are in their 40's now and they apparently still like their own tunes. To quote Ed Balls, "So what." The Spectator is presumably hoping to widen its appeal and to generate new subscriptions from these 40-somethings in order to replace those amongst us who don't expect to be around much longer.

"Are you Local?" It's not compulsory to read this new blog so if you don't like it then don't trouble yourself with it.

"The only factor that can give protection from the destructive effects of anger and hatred is the practice of tolerance and patience." HH The Dalai Lama

SUSAN HILL,
"it has nothing to do with anything within a thousand miles of art"

I thought that art was in the eye, ear or mind of the beholder? In consideration of all that has gone before is it not possible that many people might consider your story books to be dreadfully derivative or at a distance of 1001 miles?

Marc Nash

Nicholas, not just 'Thursday' but der yute of every day of the week, including the happlyslappath day to keep it holy (a.k.a 'real')

EC

AndyinBrum,

Excellent!

salieri

In fairness to his replacement, was it not the unlamented Matthew D'A who set the tone of the magazine by
(a) trying to write seriously about rock music, and assuming we all cared,
(b) defining the arts in a way which also included football
(c) sacking several contributors who could write grammatical and well-crafted English
(d) employing many more who (like himself) could not, and
(e) stuffing the Speccie with advertisements for expensive tat?

I shall gladly renew my subscription when these trends have been reversed.

AndyinBrum

EC the best thing is that Coffee Housers can be changed to any number of groups

Adrian Sells

EC - 'art in the eye etc of the beholder'.
Relativistic tosh. Prof Leavis will be turning in his grave ... again.

biggestaspidistra

I had a look again just to make sure and so as not to appear prejudiced. It's thoroughly depressing in its middle level bourgeois-ness that doesn't seem aware that serious art exists. It reads like an endless press release. I suppose this is where New labour went, after the rout.

"I thought that art was in the eye, ear or mind of the beholder?" And sadly, so does the Spectator.

The Bellman

@EC, AndyinBrum, other breathless neophiliacs: Ho ho ho...

Yes, this is harmless and easily avoided. But harmlessness is not in itself a justification. A section on scouting, micturition fetishism, The Twilight saga or classic car repair would be harmless and easily avoided, and, I dare say, attract a broader readership; but what value would it add? And, if I were a boy scout, a micturition maniac, Twilight fan or classic car enthusiast, I would undoubtedly prefer other, more specialised, sources to the Spectator's unhappy clones. Or will we, in the interests of inclusiveness, offer blogs to any and all CHers with sufficient vanity, assertiveness and time on their hands?

What benefits does change bring if by changing you erode the character of the institution? Too often the result of change is stultifying conformity - especially where it is driven by the desire to attract advertisers. And the more 'diverse' The Spectator becomes, the more it looks like everything else. Nothing to celebrate there.

If I want to read 'progressive' 'liberal' analysis, I know where to go. If I want to hear opinions about the latest pop culture, I know where to find it. And if I want incisive, witty political analysis from a right-wing perspective, The Spectator is less and less likely to provide it. And Lord knows I have persevered - through Clive Davis, Martin Bright, Daniel Korski, the gruesome 'You've earned it' section subsequently renamed 'Lifestyle', and Lisa 'If self-regard were radioactive I would render west London uninhabitable' Hilton.

Marc Nash

Adrian Sells, I don't think Professor Leavis has got back in his grave even now after the "Pride And Prejudice And Zombies" affair...

Is this a broad church of curmedgeonliness or does one have to vote Conservative in order to join?

SUSAN HILL

EC.. I don`t think a novel exists which is not derivative - we all learn by reading carefully the books by those who write better than we will ever be and of course some of it rubs off. I wonder what novelist would dare to call themselves entirely original ?
And never ever once anywhere in 50 years as a published writer over many genres have I referred to a single one of my 53 books as art. I would not presume.

AndyinBrum

You created it, it's art. IMHO.

EC

The Bellman,

"...the yawning gulf between the editors of this site and most of the commentators."

You raise a very interesting point. There is a distinction to be draw between the regular commentators, 70? and the readership of circa 70,000.

As you say, The Spectator is an institution but it has to pay its way or go out of print. Under Andrew Neil's management the circulation has risen quite remarkably.

So maybe the answer IS more specialist blogs. How about Patrick Moore on the Sky At Night? or even the "art" of playing Xylophones? or perhaps a Michael Moore blog on US Affairs? (That one would ensure that Pete Hoskin and David Blackburn got no sleep whatsoever!) Your ideas were also great but piss artists are already well catered for on the King of Irony's blog.

Verity

Andy Carpark - "wearing your baseball caps on back to front."

Do you, or anyone else here, have any thoughts on why some men and boys think this is an impressive way to wear a baseball cap? It's not as though the visor is low enough to keep the sun off the back of the neck, yet it is perfectly designed to keep the sun out of the eyes. Do they understand this?

These men and boys all look bloody awful ... yet I have a feeling this inexplicable, ugly usage is done out of vanity. Do they think they look rebellious and dangerous rather than like creepy little wimps? Does anyone have any ideas?

Nicholas

Marc Nash - my "terday" was "Today" rather than "Thursday".

Curmudgeonliness? I prefer to think of us as those of a certain age who can actually remember it how it was before young and arrogant oiks who think they know better but actually know FA changed everything. Somebody put the cut-off as those born before 1979 but I think it is earlier than that - probably those born before John Lennon entered the public consciousness. Because we can actually remember how it was we are particularly resistant to the propaganda, re-writing of history and lies about the past indulged in by certain movements of the left and thus they tends to hate us.

Curmudgeon, grumpy old man, etc., is a useful means to discriminate, marginalise and hate by those who profess so loudly not to discriminate, marginalise and hate but are invariably the worst offenders.

Marc Nash

Susan Hill - Dwarves standing on the shoulders of giants? Why do we even bother trying then? And who were those first giants upon whom we are all propped up and eclipsed?

Ironically enough, it is the rock and rollers who are probably the most assiduous at due attribution for the influences within their work; novelists are pretty lousy at it on the whole.

I know 'change' is a bit of an anathema round this here bailiwick, but I for one am a little weary of the contemporary novel still labouring under nineteenth century parameters. If new generations are not coming to reading, it is largely because the novelists are failing them. Where was there to go to for all those adults who used the Harry Potter novels as a kind of access return to reading course? Nowhere and we have probably lost them to the world of literature forever. hat do you mean 'good'?

EC

SUSAN HILL,

I take your point, but you understand that I was only posing that as a question.

Surely novels, all books are a work of art? Writers, like painters and sculptors have their own unique style. Computer programmers, even when constrained by installation standards, have a recognisable style. Back in the day when working on programs it was often possible to tell who wrote the "damn thing" that you were trying to fix without looking at the change log. A computer program is a work of art, a combination of function and aesthetics. Whether it is a thing of beauty or not depends upon how well written it is - and I'll be the judge of that ;-))

How about an IT blog?

Marc Nash

Verity, never mind the backwards look, what about the baseball cap with price tag/sticker still on? The 'look I just shop-lifted this' edgy feel, when you know their step-mum has actually handed over hard-earned money from her paypal sales pot to buy it for the wormy apple of her eye...

Nicholas, um yes I knew what you were referring to, I was just trying to point up the problems of language when it is ennunciated without any movement of the upper lip as with current crop of der yute. of course the use of the word ennunciate in such a way is an oxymoron...

Revisionism is not a trope purely of the Left, but of any group who want to cover up the yah boo sucks raspberry blwoing and snook cocking of power.

The Bellman

@EC: Doubtless Mr Neil could improve circulation even further by printing pictures of ladies in advanced states of undress, and leading with interviews of footballers, and giving away free Peppa Pig DVDs on the cover. But it would not be The Spectator in any meaningful sense. "I remember when the circulation was a few thousand and *everyone* read it."

Adapt or die. It is a fine line, and adaptation can be a form of death. "It was necessary to destroy the Spectator in order to save the Spectator." If the price of survival is the triumph of spreadsheets, 'lifestyle' and demographic slice, then perhaps there is more dignity in death.

But perhaps it is not just the decline of the magazine that I am mourning...

Adrian Sells

Marc Nash - care to elaborate on the 'contemporary novel still labouring under nineteenth century parameters' and adults seeking solace in Harry Potter books?
Surely, the reason so many readers resorted to JK Rowling was in their search for that old 19th Century virtue called plot, which so many current practitioners have clearly lost.

lescam

"How about an IT blog?"

How about a Speccie "special" on computing for idiots, like me? I have just sent to the recycle bin, a document where my typing insisted on appearing in red, with a line through the middle of it, which I was unable to delete. Nothing worked, I couldn't change back to black, the back button wouldn't work, the entire thing was a shambles. I got rid of it, opened a new Word document, and typed the entire thing out again, this time with no problems. It's at times like these that I feel an urgent desire to heave the PC out of the window.

The Bellman

ps EC: Michael Moore already has his own blog, and I daresay there are plenty of xylophone blogs. That is surely the point about the internet: it's all out there, it's not hard to find, and it will thrive or fade whether or not The Spectator embraces it in pursuit of 'relevance' or money!

Andy Carpark

Verity - The fashion, I think, originated in LA and is meant to look edgy and menacing but merely betrays a deep rooted sense of personal inadequacy, as do the puerile postures of Numberplate and his posse of buffoons.

Their mind-curdling selection of juvenilia indicates a belief that their generation invented art, as it presumably invented sex: the bog-standard, soixante-retard metaphysic of oedipal grudge spiced with sanctimonious anger. Take them down.

Marc Nash

Adrian, it will take more than a comment to sort out the faultlines of the modern novel. But one I would be more than willing to rise to on the right platform.

But the notion of Harry Potter as an adult read can belanced in a couple of lines. before I do so, I would just like to say that I applaud La Dame Rowling for getting whole generations of kids interested in reading. If the adults I saw everyday on the London Underground reading her books were merely genning up on what they were going to read to their offspring at bedtime, then again I would salute them for their devotion. But they weren't, I could see their lips moving as they read. These were not fluent readers, not those with books piled up on their bedside tables and bureaus.

What is it about the tale of an orphan boy who has magical powers that attracted them I wonder? Perfect regressive fodder for adults to curl up inside their splintered family womb once again... After all, it's a scary, fractious world out there. And there are those books which look to engage with it and deal in emotional intelligence and there are those books which offer pure escapism from the everyday world.

Marc Nash

Lescam - Get an applemac!

Gaw

No serious art? As a contributor to TFAD, I'm puzzled. How about this: 'Turn to Red' on page 2 of the blog, posted just a few days ago.

I can't think of art more serious, or more 'high', than an image of the Mannheim Altarpiece rendered in oils and displayed in the nave of St Paul's Cathedral. Isn't this a rather obvious contradiction of the prejudiced thesis on display here?

Anyway, why be so constipated about definitions of art? Dylan had a few moves on Keats, you know.

Verity

Marcus Nash - thank you for that bit of revolting information. The baseball cap-wearing fraternity have not yet picked up on this habit in Mexico. It may not even have originated in the US; it could be "made in Britain" vacuity.

Re the new blog, which sounds dire, it will be London-based, of course, except for Glastonbury and what's-that-other one? and a couple of annual features on Glasgow and Manchester.

Gaw

The new blog is less London-based than The Spectator: one of its co-editors lives in the West Midlands.

But what's so wrong about a London focus? It works for the magazine. After all, there's rather a lot going on down here.

salieri

Gaw: Absolute bollocks.

Your definition of High Art appears - once again with that nauseatingly post-modern mixture of smug condescension and ignorance which is the hallmark of this jejune new blog - to be limited to a new 'take' on an earlier aesthetic: in this case, but irrelevantly, the Mannheim altarpiece.

It may be intriguing, arresting, even very red, but that's not the point. The one entry about 'art' which you have managed to identify, among pages and pages of articles about football and cretinous pop-music, is of course 21st-c art. A casual reader might be forgiven for thinking no other kind has ever existed. Contributors have no such excuse.

And at the same you try to get a more comfortable position on the bandwagon by comparing Bob Dylan with Keats. Bollocks, again. And, as far as I know, Keats wasn't tone-deaf.

Nicholas

"After all, there's rather a lot going on down here."

Which is why the rest of the country is in such a mess.

Beer Moth

"...one of its co-editors lives in the West Midlands."

Firk me that's a bit Ray Mears.

Nicholas J. Rogers

EC - having read many of Susan Hill's books, or 'story books' as you call them, I can assure you that they stand up to much closer scrutiny than 1001 miles! To say such things indicates you have never actually read any of them and are not in a position to comment.

Gaw

Salieri, I make no argument that contemporary art is superior to that of the past. I don't think it is. Why on earth would you think I do?

Besides the substance of the argument is one thing. I've always associated traditional virtues with consideration and politeness. But then I don't seem to be as modern in my approach to discussion as some around here.

Marc Nash

I've heard distant rumours about the existence of these other places of which you all speak, but I only trust the evidence of my own eyes and Cormac McCarthy informs me it's way too dangerous to travel in the badlands beyond the city's boundaries...

High art ... low art ... I would have thought most here would approve of rock and roll as a highly successful export industry that asks for very little help in public subsidy, unlike say ... Opera. High art has always relied on patronage. Low art has been more about singing for your supper, based around the public house, the jazz club, the musical hall... It largely pays for itself and keeps people off the streets (and sweeps them up into the bars which may be the complaint).

Sorry to be post-modern about this, but if I may just quote Rick Mayall's character in 80's TV anarcho-comedy "The Young Ones" (partially scripted by Ben Elton, thus rendering about three cardinal sins requiring scourging in just one allusion) -

"The only reason you don't understand our music, is because you don't like it"

TGF UKIP

Didn't exactly expect to find a review of Royal Opera's new production of Simon Boccanegra, but was a bit surprised to find that somehow The Speccie seems to have morphed into Timeout.

Out of curiosity, I did play the video clip of Joy Division (music for teenagers to scribble by?) which confirmed for me many things, just one of which is that I shan't be re-visiting in a hurry.

At least if Jez and Tarq go missing from The Eye, I'll know where they ended up.

AndyinBrum

Lescam ~ turn off "track changes"

lescam

AndyinBrum; many thanks for your helpful comment. I didn't even know there was such a button, but looked it up in my Word book and discovered it must have been clicked on accidentally. In future I will know what to do. Thanks again.

biggestaspidistra

"Mark's work is displayed as part of St Paul's Art Programme, which also features artists such as Anthony Gormley and Bill Viola. It 'seeks to explore the encounter between art and faith'. "

What a novel idea.

This has to be a spoof. Well done Speccie lads, you fooled us all.

Gaw

biggestaspidistra: Strange that you seem to disparage contemporary artists asking age-old questions. Should they only ask new ones? That seems radically anti-tradition.

As it happens, I don't have a lot of time for Gormley and Viola (something that was evident if you'd read the piece without your prejudicial blinkers on). But in any event, complaints about St Paul's programme should be directed at the Cathedral's canon and not me.

BTW and to anyone who's still reading this: you do realise Mark Alexander is one of the few artists alive still working in the traditions of the Old Masters, don't you? Consequently, the reactions here have all been quite bizarre.

salieri

Haven’t we rather strayed from the point, GAW, that this was the only example you could find or recommend on the new blog of an article about serious art?

Not that the artist ‘works in the traditions of the Old Masters’ (i.e. can paint) but that you “can’t think of art more serious or more ‘high’”? Seriously, can’t you?

And that you seriously believe that Dylan (the deletion of a Christian name being proof per se of immortality) had, in your oh-so-trendy-épatons-les-bourgeois words, “a few moves on Keats”?

Of course there should be a magazine for the enjoyment of people with similar views: it’s called ‘the Beano’.

Marc Nash

Salieri, as with Susan Hill, I simply don't understand where you are coming from that all serious/high art has already been produced, that nothing of worth can ever come from the new and that all artists are dwarves squatting on the shoulders of giants.

What you seem to be describing if I have it right, is a museum art. By all means return time and again to view a Tintoretto or listen to a live rendering of a Mozart opus and maybe even glean something you never saw in it before, but I personally find such perpetual cloistering arid. One can appreciate Jane Austen as a stylist, but her nineteenth century courtship narratives don't speak to me. I studied history for my degree. I don't feel I need to keep revisiting it through an undiluted menu of its art.

salieri

Marc,

No, I can see that you don’t understand where I am “coming from”, because you assume I’ve said something I certainly have not. I don’t presume to pass relative aesthetic judgments, historical or otherwise, any more than GAW does. Where I’m “coming from” is simply a personal belief that today’s catchphrase ‘popular culture’ is essentially oxymoronic: it means football and pop music, as amply demonstrated by the pages of TFAD.

Of course there are plenty of people who disagree. That’s fine. But I don’t presume to tell them what is or is not artistic and they don’t have to tell me.

Now, how about a nice musicological analysis of Bartok’s quartets?

Thought not.

Gaw

Salieri, thanks for your mostly thoughtful rejoinder.

To be clear, I was rebutting the allegation that there was 'no serious art' discussed on the blog.

The Old Master traditions involve more than a willingness to paint as you, supposedly a traditionalist, surely know.

And no, I can't think of anything more 'serious' than a concern with Christian eschatology, with the persistence of Original Sin in the absence of God, with the depredations of war to name a few present in the work. You may not like the Red Mannheim (do you find the Mannheim Altarpiece worthy?) but it's difficult to deny that these concerns are present.

As a bourgeois myself I actually enjoy a little épater. But I'm surprised you would think I might seek to shock you with that weak little witticism. I was making a jocular reference to Christopher Ricks' discussion of the merits of Keats against Dylan (Bob, by the way). It happened a long time ago now. He reckoned they were both OK (sorry, bit of a plebeian word that).

By the way, your restored (and traditional) civility frayed towards the end. Despite your efforts, you seem a very modern man in all sorts of ways.

Gaw

Salieri, my last response to you seems to have been swallowed by the site. So, in the event it isn't disgorged, here's a summary:

- I began by rebutting the allegation that there was 'no serious art' featured.

- The Old Masters tradition amounts to more than painting. Surely as a traditionalist you should be aware of this?

- I can't think of anything more 'serious' than Christian eschatology, original sin, the persistence of evil, the depredations of war, etc.

- I'm a bourgeois and I enjoy a bit of épater myself - but that weak witticism of mine surely doesn't qualify. I was jocularly referring to the debate initiated a long, long time ago now by Christopher Ricks when he discussed in a famous essay the merits of Dylan versus Keats. He thought they were both OK (sorry, bit plebeian that term of approbation).

- Finally, you retained a sort of traditional civility until near the end. Just couldn't help yourself I suppose. If I may observe, you don't seem that concerned with maintaining a lot of worthwhile traditions, or even really that interested in them.

Anyway, back to my Beano.

Gaw

How traditional am I, eh? Can't even execute a post properly...

Anyway, saying things twice might help.

Marc Nash

The persistence of belief in Original Sin, even or especially without a belief in God, underpins political conservatism.

Man is flawed and not to be trusted in his behaviour. Hence the need for strong law and patrician government to protect him from himself and each other. Thomas Hobbes with a smiley emoticon.

Of course the Progressive Whig view is equally vapid. That man is a noble creature, merely held down by circumstance , which if only social conditions could be improved would allow him to reach the full flowering of his potential. Whig patricians are usually held to be Public schoolboys with guilty consciences.

When will political theory of either stripe actually come up with some fresh notions to inject on these tired and superannuated notions?

Marc Nash

Salieri - high art versus low art then... Let's get really pure and puritanical (financially speaking) about this and let the market decide... It comes down to a numbers game and that's the only mathematical analysis I might be interested in with regard to the arts

biggestaspidistra

"biggestaspidistra: Strange that you seem to disparage contemporary artists asking age-old questions. Should they only ask new ones? That seems radically anti-tradition."

I disparage nitwits Gaw spouting the trivial. Artists asking age old questions is what they do best. But could you raise your sights a little? Some of us expect more that what you get for an arts council grant and a little help from your friends. Where's Matthew Barney at Schaulager, Basel, for instance, 'prayer sheet with the wound and the nail'. Discuss it, without sucking your cheeks in and trying to sound cool.

Brit

The fishblood traces etched by Matthew Barney under self-imposed psychological and physical restraint in ‘prayer sheet with the wound and the nail' (2007) have been compared by many critics and other charlatans both to the movie 'Jaws' and to the cyclical rhythmic sforzandos that cyclically tie together, in terms of climatic areas, the outer four movements of Bartok’s ‘String Quartet No. 4’ (1927), although Barney himself has cited a more direct influence from the Joy Division track 'Transmission' which, infamously, incorporates whole-tone, pentatonic, and octatonic scales (as well as diatonic and heptatonia seconda scales)as subsets of the chromatic scale – and is itself an oblique reference, via late Bartok, to Verdi’s ‘Simon Boccanegra’, a new production of which is running at the Royal Opera until 15 July.

Everyone happy now?

Gaw

'Spouting the trivial'? I point you to a review that's just gone up on a site called Fugitive Ink (the Speccie won't allow me to post the url so please Google it if you would). I urge you to read it and let me know whether you still think 'spouting the trivial' is an appropriate description.

And as for your other points, I wasn't reviewing Matthew Barney! He may or may not be interesting and meritorious but I can't be expected to name check everyone who might fulfill those criteria.

BTW Mark has never received any form of state support other than getting the usual fees paid to go to Oxford as a mature student.

Finally, I really can't help sounding cool. I try not to but seem to be instinctively attracted to the idiom. It is a failing.

PS Excellent synthesis, Brit. But I think you know the answer to your question. I fear it will ever be thus.

biggestaspidistra

I think what is so damning about this blog and the Spectator's enthusiastic embrace of it is the first namesyness of it, the friendsyness of it, the oxfordiness (or the-other-one of it ) invariably an indication of the second rate in the visual arts and how it all sounds like the end of a middle class dinner party. I don't think I can read Fraser again after the Spotify incident, David Blackburn merely confirms what we knew of him with his review of the BP portrait show. It is provincial and pretentious, people who know little writing as if they know too well. It's as if the New Scientist would ask me to write about rocket science. I'm not saying I wouldn't give it a go -surely rocket science is in the eye of the beholder. But someone (an editor perhaps) should have told me not to bother and asked an expert.

Brit

Don't you mean "I don't think I can read Nelson again"?

Gaw

For what it's worth, I know Mark as we both went to the same comprehensive together. I know the editors through blogging and I know that one of them didn't go to uni; the other, I have no idea - it's not particularly interesting.

The only person being exclusive is you, biggestaspidistra. You seem very keen to exclude yourself from any real meeting of minds. Why don't you relax and see what results from some constructive, non-dismissive discussion? I think you'd be surprised at how much common ground you'd discover. You might even find some friendship. I know I have over the couple of years I've been blogging.

Gaw

This site seems to keep swallowing my comments. This is a test. In many ways.