In the service of others

Dave B

I've never seen the attraction of this programme.

On the one hand, the Conservatives say The State should step back, and encourage non-state institutions . Then they clone the Duke of Edinburgh's Award, and make it a function of The State.

???????

Chuck Unsworth

A major obstacle to this laudable stuff is the absurd and all-pervading Health and Safety culture. H&S Cops will be everywhere, fully loaded clipboards to hand, ready to blow away each and every initiative.

It's time that we allowed everyone to take risks again. I seem to recall that the only way I learned to ride a bike was by falling off it a few times. It's the scars that teach you.

ItsAlreadyTooLate

Good question, who's going to pay for this?, don't forget Public Liability Insurance, residential summer camp, in the UK?

KMcC

being compelled to work? Another unfunded scheme with concomitant swelling of the bureaucracy?

Youth unemployment is a serious problem, but the solution isn't to force every 16-year-old to labour for a charity for free, but instead in liberalising labour laws, reducing red tape and regulation generally, reducing taxes on employments and profits, and ending the minimum wage.

Not that I'd expect a bunch of Tories to grasp that.

True Bred Pomponian

School cadet force was still compulsory in my young day. It was not popular. Plenty of youngsters are engaged in gainful activities over the summer, including paid employment. Some youngsters may just fancy a break, MPs get a long enough summer holiday. Let me guess that David Cameron will make it compulsory for the middle classes by saying no entry to the sixth form without the certificate confirming completion of the national service.

TrevorsDen

Pathetic responses from Dave and Chuck (and no doubt a few equally miserable others) to a laudable ambition.

True Bred Pomponian

A further point: if youngsters are expected to give up their summer holiday to do this, then so should all MPs.

Ian Walker

So it's eight weeks long?

I presume poor old David has forgotten that us plebs only get six weeks summer holiday?

Yam Yam

"Caring for the infirm... helping to organise activities for children"?

Sharp intake of breathe and the sound of more paper-shuffling as an avalanche of Disclosure Application Forms suddenly descends upon the Criminal Records Bureau.

charles hercock

Pie in the sky
Laudable but we have moved on from the 1950's

strapworld

I am sorry to cross swords with you once again, Mr Blackburn, BUT how can you say that National Service has 'appalling connotations'?

Many National Service personnel made friends for life, saw parts of the world they would never have been able to afford to get to (in those days) and, yes, some had to fight in wars. But surely there can be nothing finer than serving ones Country?

Perhaps I am too old and going senile but perhaps this article shows that the Country has seriously lost its way!

I would far prefer National Service to be as it was. Serving one's Country in the armed services and learning discipline and pride in one's unit and Country.

Occasional Ostrich

@TrevorsDen

Dead right. As me old Dad used to say, "Nothing beats a try." In the more recent past, when faced with recalcitrant personnel, I was reduced to saying, "For Pete's sake, give it a try." And even then, I might still have to form a working group to demonstrate that (whatever project it was) it would work.

alexsandr

mebbe we shoould look at the Italian model, where people serve in the military, the caribineri or do 'social' work. Praps a NS journalist could look at other European countries and their solutions

Greenslime

Didn't it used to be called Venture Scouts?

denis cooper

It may be laudable, but I honestly can't see it working as intended unless it's made compulsory, and if it's made compulsory then by definition it also can't work as intended.

Data will be collected on the participants, careful statistical analyses conducted by civil servants and academics will confirm that certain socio-economic and ethnic and religious groups are "over-represented" among the volunteers while others are "under-represented", there will be the usual kinds of accusations and the usual kind of demands for the schemes to be modified and for greater efforts to be made to recruit volunteers from these "hard to reach groups" while discouraging volunteers from the "over-represented" groups, those efforts to achieve a proper politically correct balance will of course will have a very limited effect, leading to more recriminations, and after a few years the whole thing will be allowed to fizzle out as an embarrassing failure.

A pessimist would accept that thanks to our politicians our society is now so fractured that it probably can't ever be put back together again, and certainly not by the same kind of idiot politicians who broke it in the first place, and so the final descent into chaos and bloodshed is now inevitable. An optimist might say that possibly it's not yet too late and our society can be repaired, but only by the people themselves, and in spite of rather than with the help of the politicians.

Edmund Jerk

Why not just put them on a deserted island give them weapons and let them fight to the death? Like in that Japanese film whose name alludes me at the moment.

Chuck Unsworth

@ Trevorsden

Do you actually read anything before posting your garbage? What part of "this laudable stuff" and "it's time we allowed everyone to take risks again" do you not understand?

So you take my comments to mean that we should not support such schemes?

Good Grief!

Austin Barry

denis cooper @12.20

Perceptive, prescient and a pleasure to read.

Tarka the Rotter

Perhaps we could call them 'The Cameron Youth"... you know the sort of thing, natty uniform and armbands... rousing sing-songs and Strength through Joy

GeoffH

"Laudable but we have moved on from the 1950's"

More's the pity.

David Blackburn

Strapworld,

Because it does - but please be assured that's not a value judgement, just an observation. Michael Caine put it very well during the campaign: 'I thought Jesus Christ they're bringing it back.'

Noa

"National service has appalling connotations.."

Really, for whom? A great many young people found it to be an accelerated step on the road to maturity; teaching respect, loyalty, patriotism and self-reliance.

Surely these are the very values this new scheme is supposed to inculcate?

Though how it will achieve them eludes me.

Chuck Unsworth

@ charles hercock

I'd be interested in your views as to exactly in what way we have 'moved on' since the 1950s.

Victor Southern

David Blackburn

You are too young to understand the concept and effect of National Service conscription. What you know of it is hearsay gleaned from writings that you find congenial to your mind set, that confirm your prejudices.

I was not a National serviceman myself but I worked with them, trained them and served with them. On balance it did them far more good than harm and certainly aided boys to grow into men.

I am sure it is always easier to knock ideas than to applaud them, to destroy than to build. See how many adherents you will have to your inherent wish to see this fail - far too many.

lescam

National Service was generally, in its day, a very good thing. I'm not saying it should be brought back now, but to condemn it is ridiculous, especially by those who weren't around at the time.

I'm getting tired of (younger) people always getting their facts wrong because they weren't there. I read recently that "there was no TV until the 1960s". My parents bought their first TV in 1950, a few months before the Holme Moss transmitter opened in 1951. Just the other day I read that nobody had a fridge before WW2. This is rubbish as well. We oldies were not as deprived as the young whippersnappers seem to think! (Maybe depraved, though)

Verity

Didn't President Kennedy invent it around 50 years ago, when it was called The Peace Corps? The Peace Corps was for overseas, and was the first time young people with no experience of the world were allowed to go and interfere in other countries. I guess in Britain, they will be interfering with fellow Brits and immigrants from inimicable societies.

libertarian

This is another entirely pointless big state, nanny state sound bite that will end up costing taxpayers money.

If the youth of the UK wanted to volunteer to do stuff they can already join

Scouts,
Guides
Army, Navy and Air Force Cadets

Boys/girls Brigade

St Johns Ambulance

Duke of Edinburgh Award

A dozen other charities, GAP activities and overseas expeditions

Rhoda Klapp

Just a couple of points which are not quite clear. Is it compulsory? Is it paid?

Ohm and can I send my kids to someone else's house to do stuff they won't do here, while I get some loaner kids who will do the same stuff for me, courtesy of Dave. What's that, it doesn't work like that?

Doppelganger

I'd rather they brought back National Service than this mess of pottage. I am reminded of the CCF we had at school and those who objected; they were let off to do what was termed "social services": mending desks and gardening for the elderly. They might as well joined in with the fun. This country is in such a mess and is accelerating faster down hill.

HFC

It seems to me that compulsory National Service would be no bad thing. For starters, we need more personnel in our armed forces and the training culture of the services is likely to introduce many to the concepts of self reliance, responsibility and teamwork (and play), which are not strong in the state school system.

I write as someone who was just too young to be called for NS but I have several friends and acquantances who did serve and, without exception, say they recall the experience favourably.

In several cases, they made such good friends and formed such strong loyalties that even now they attend regimental reunions. Some were squaddies whilst others were officers but the attitude is the same irrespective of their status 50+ years ago.

I think that is worth striving for.

maddy1

This will end up like the Pound initiative,a fluffy BBC piece. If the voters do not do what the politicians want they will be called "bastards or bigots". The people who go on killing sprees will called misunderstood citizens. Politicians do want people having local democracy and going the way of Switzerland. The illegals will be in eco kurts in the Qantocks and mosques will be shifted if local democracy holds sway!!!

James

I'll be honest - when I was 16 and had finished my GCSEs and 11 years of state-mandated 'edyukayshun', all I wanted to do was sit outside in the sunshine, have a few drinks and have a good time with mates and my girlfriend. I'd work part-time to bring some money in. I didn't have too many responsibilities as I lived with parents and didn't drive - why not make the most of it?

For many kids, it'll be the last time they get 2-3 months break from education, work and the grind of modern life's commitments.

'National Youth Service' is the last thing that would be on my mind - however neighbourly and compassionate an individual I might be.

It will, of course, attract the nauseating, the bossy and the precocious kids: the Millibands of the world.

Laudable idea, but not the right one. And the name definitely isn't going to get it much love.

sauce

this national service plan is pointless.

here is a short spoof taking the piss out of this topic,
http://www.worldbytes.org/the-big-society-in-action/
ironically it was made by teenage volunteers at this film charity in London.