The immigration battle

Unwise Earnie

What Cuffleyburgers said, but without the hyphen :o)

In2minds

Cuffleyburgers @ July 28th, 2010 10:56am - Yes, he is also a LibDem. And if his party are wondering why they are going down in the polls they need look no further than St Vince.

Nickle

Government spending per person 12,000

Income needed to pay tax of 12,000 is 41-42,000 pounds

Threshold for coming to the UK as an immigrant 25,000.

Raise the threshold or we are subsiding immigration.

Don't forget, if the immigrant brings dependents, then the tax needed rises by 12,000 pounds per person.

Now, if you cut government spending, you can lower the threshold.

Good news then for Vince. He can increase immigration if he cuts spending.

TrevorsDen

Is he?

As business secretary he and his department want to see people with skills come to Britain.

The coalition signed an agreement for a 'cap' on non EU immigration.

Once again you have to write something, so why not let it be drivel.

Really people should be more sanguine about governments. If government was easy we would all be politicians ministers or civil servants. Governments always make mistakes. Always. Its because there are actually no correct answers.

this government will make mistakes -- its the one thing we can be sure about. But its not a govt headed by Blair Brown or (a still to be determined) Miliband. Its not a govt which intends to continue to spend money it has not got, its going to do its best to eradicate the deficit (it probably will make mistakes along the way here as well).

It is embroiled in clearing up the mess after Brown

Nickle

The real issue is illegal immigration.

The 2001 UK Census recorded 88,378 Nigerian-born people resident in the UK.[7] More recent estimates by the Office for National Statistics put the figure at 154,000 in 2009.[8]

A Council of Europe report gives a figure of 100,000 Nigerians in the UK but suggests that this is likely to be an underestimate since it does not include irregular migrants or children.[9] Meanwhile, in its country profile for Nigeria, the British Foreign Office states that the Nigerian community in the UK has between 800,000 and 3 million members.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Nigerian

That's from one source, and its not picking out for any particular reason. Just that the FO has produced the data.

When are they going to be removed?

1. They aren't paying anywhere near 12K a year in tax.
2. They are causing housing shortages.
3. They are building up a future problem. What happens when the parents are kicked out. The children will claim under Human Rights legislation the right to stay. Then the parents will claim the same under the right to a family life.
4. With no taxes, there is no state pension. They will then have to be bailed out. 13K a year tax free? With no contributions.

Alex Gallagher

Why is Cameron reneging on his immigration promises?

Because they were never "real world" promises...Tory immigration "policy" was and is a sop to it's own right-wing and to buy off potential BNP voters.

We live in a world of global flows of finance, products, services and people. None of these flows can be choked off by one state or federation.

How can the UK have a better relationship with India (or any other country) while classing their emigrants as third-class couloured people who are not welcome in the UK and at the same time allowing any European freedom of entry?

Reality always bites......anyone who voted Tory for tighter immigration is a fool....

Chuck Unsworth

I don't want to see people with skills coming to Britain, ever. What I want to see is Britain developing skills to the point that they become a valuable export.

strapworld

"By the way, I regard Cameron’s immigration pledge as being radical to the point of unworkable".

Well, Mr Nelson, you certainly know about pledges on immigration, do you not!

Trevors Den is right- to a point. But it is not Cable's fault (and who would have thought I would side with him!) that the tory negotiating team did not ensure the full Tory policy was agreed. Step forward those men of straw. Letwin, Hague and co.
Hague has proved to be a real wet lettuce! Letwin should be confined to the bunker.

I await the pledge (promise) made directly to me by the author on immigration!

Noa

Chuck Unsworth -spot on.

I'm at a loss as to why a still, just, 'first world' country is not exporting top class professionals and skilled workers to the world.

Oh hang on, perhaps it's because, unlike the Indians for example, the UK Government is content to permit UK Industry and business to be flogged off in entirely rather than merely permitting the purchase of a minority shareholding.
Similarly skills are imported rather than developed, witness the fact that 40% of NHS doctors are non Brits.

Slim Jim

Immigration is but one of three elephants in the room. The other 2 are the HRA in its current form, and membership of the EU. You can't deal adequately with one whilst ignoring the others. That's why it's so difficult Trevor.

Steve Jackson

"Cameron is a hugely able Prime Minister"

Surely a bit early to say this - even Brown was still in a honeymoon period this early on.

DA

Oh God,

I have to correct that glaringly incorrect statement you presented in your article as "fact".

There is no way that only 33% of immigrants now come from the EU. The truth is that the overwhelming majority of migrants come from the EU, NOT from outside of it.

And that is EXACTLY the reason why all this talk about an immigration cap is completely pointless as it would not apply to the majority of migrants coming in, due to current EU laws.

The politicians know it, and the wisened up know it too. The electorate? Not so much.

But please get your facts right.

denis cooper

I agree with TrevorsDen. Everything the government does is wonderful and beyond criticism, and the sun shines out of Cameron's arse when TrevorsDen's head isn't in the way.

Rhoda Klapp

"Cameron is a hugely able Prime Minister"

..with all the decisiveness of Jim Hacker, but not the previous ministerial experience.

Rhoda Klapp

Mr Cooper, I agree. In fact the only problem is that the electorate doesn't deserve him, and that is why it is being replaced with one which will show the proper appreciation.

CAW

CAMERON SAID AD NAUSEAM AT THE TIME OF THE COALITION NEGOTIATIONS THAT THE RED LINES WERE THE CAP ON IMMIGRATION, NO FURTHER TRANSFER OF POWERS TO EU AND TRIDENT.
I do not pay much attention to what Cable said as it was denied immediately by Downing Street.
MUCH MORE TO THE POINT IS WHAT CAMERON SAID ABOUT TURKISH EU MEMBERSHIP. IT'S NO USE GIVING LONG SPEECHES ABOUT POPULATION POLICY AND REPEATEDLY TELLING THE ELECTORATE DURING THE CAMPAIGN THAT NET IMMIGRATION WILL BE IN THE TENS OF THOUSANDS RATHER THAN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS AND THEN 10 WEEKS LATER COME OUT IN SUPPORT OF EU MEMBERSHIP FOR A LOW-INCOME MUSLIM COUNTRY WITH A POPULATION OF 72 MILLION. HE SAYS THAT INCOMES WILL TEND TO CONVERGE BUT BY THAT TIME WE COULD HAVE SEVERAL MIILION MORE IMMIGRANTS IN THE COUNTRY.
FRANKLY GIVEN THE HUGE COONTRADICTION ONE CAN ONLY ATTRIBUTE IT TO AMNESIA, POOR STAAFWORK OR DOWNRIGHT DECEPTION.
THANK GOD GERMANY ARE ADAMANT THAT THERE WILL BE NO TURKISH MEMBERSHIP (CLEARLY THEY ALREADY HAVE SEVERAL MILLION CITIZENS OF TURKISH ORIGIN) AND SARKOZY HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR THAT HE OPPOSES IT. ALSO THERE MAY BE A COMMITMENT BY THE AUSTRIAN GOVERNMENT THAT THERE WOULD BE A REFERENDUM BEFORE AUSTRIA WOULD AGREE TO ANY ARRANGEMENT THAT WOULD GIVE FREE MOVEMENT TO TURKISH LABOUR.

JohnPage

Cameron is a hugely able Prime Minister, but I do fear that he’s being badly briefed on policy, by people who think such details don’t matter.

A hugely able PM would know the broad issues and his people would ensure he got proper briefings or they'd be fired.

So Fraser's analysis is implausible.

More likely, he's not much interested in the immigration issue, and more concerned about promoting Turkish membership of the EU.

Dennis Churchill

Not reported (yet?) in most of the media this is what mass immigration and a Continental European political culture has done to our once free country.
Imagine if Muslems, rather than members of the English Defence League, had had their tyres shot out by the police were arrested and then released without charge!
The cost of a multi-cultural society is too high and the benefits not high enough.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298086/Seven-arrested-Bournemouth-far-right-mosque-bomb-plot.html

Maggie

Vince Cable is the David Davis of the LibDems. He's not a team player and he suffers from an inability to judge his own value to either the nation or the coalition. Like Davis, he's been in a permanent sulk ever since someone other than him became party leader.

Cassius

If Turkey joins the EU, the numbers of East European workers who come to Britian will look like tame by contrast, and the BNP will get into parliament.

DAVID VINTER

So if we cannot stop the global flows, how will we ever deal with the unemployment problem, now extending to graduates. And who will feed and house these incomers?[never seen an Indian farmworker!], Indians have about filled up India, are they going to now turn the UK into a 3rd world country?

TomTom

The real issue is the Coup D'Etat. When the election result produced deadlock there should have been another General Election called with a proper Manifesto and issues such as EU, Financial Crisis, Immigration, Afghanistan discussed at length so a proper result could be obtained.

Instead Cameron/Hilton fixed the election with Clegg beforehand by refusing to discuss key issues. The public was frustrated by this perversion of the democratic process

Verity

Quoting Fraser: "Cameron is a hugely able Prime Minister" ...

Is this what they call irony?

Verity

Tom Tom - Well said! You too, Dennis Cooper.

Bruceking

Typically pontifical. Typically British. Let the British, British companies and products freely rove the world. But SHUT the borders to all immigrants. Typically 18th century thinking. Long live the Empire. But how do you wish for immigration-free Britain with a German Queen and a Polish/German Prime Minister.

TGF UKIP

Denis Cooper, thanks for that I always enjoy posts that make me laugh out loud and TomTom, as usual hits the nail on the head.

Verity at 5.32pm - no, that's what you call keeping your job. Fraser, does have a wife, motgage and two young mouths to feed and he sure knows what the duty of the Editor of the Spectator is.

Marcher Baron

"I don’t believe any minister has a clue about how we would more than halve net immigration" Probably not, but the rest of us, here in the real world, do!

Dennis Churchill

Further to my post above about the police shooting out the tyres of a suspect and dragging him out of his vehicle only to release him (and six others) without charging them.
I see the Guardian is reporting it happened last Thursday. Has there been some embargo on reporting this disgraceful incident?

Major Plonquer 1

Over the years I've applied for Permanent Residence status in a number of countries from USA, Australia and most recently China. Each of these countries sets the bar extremely high in terms of skill requirements. Unlike the UK.

How come that when these other countries make it difficult for immigrants it's their 'sovereign right' but when the UK does the same we're racists?

And if the government want to do something about the (real) skill shortage in the UK perhaps it should first look at solving the brain drain problem. The ONLY reason NET immigration fell in the last year of Gordon Brown's laughable attempt at 'government' was because a huge number of qualified people emmigrated. Not because immigration fell.

The UK now offers less personal choice and fewer business opportunities than does Communist China. This needs to be fixed.

William Boyd

"When Clegg preposterously claimed in the election debates that 80 percent of immigration to Britain was from the EU, Cameron stood there silent. Anyone who has spent time studying the issue of British immigration in the last ten years knows that it’s closer to 33 percent."

It depend whether you regard students as 'immigrants' or not. If you strip out students, which does seem natural if only because their fees apparently keep our universities afloat, then the figure is indeed closer to the 80% Clegg quoted.

It was Emily Maitliss of 'Newsnight' in her election debate blog who first questioned the figure that I can recall based apparently on a quick look at a government website, thus unfortunately sullying her stellar performance commentating that debate when she uttered her immortal remark comparing the atmosphere to that of one of her school discos.

Anecdotally we know that what is complained of is EU immigration which had reached unsustainable levels before the recession. One reason surely being that of the work gangs that were being ferried across, often effectively (after 'rent allowances' and so on were deducted) exploited for less than the minimum wage, and taking away not just a job here and there but whole swathes of them in local communities. This might not suit the prejudices of a right-wing press determined to insist that the British unemployed simply aren't prepared to take less well paid employment but it is so.

I would be grateful if you would, as you claim you have, make a proper study of the immigration figures and correct yourself.

I see that your colleague Melanie Phillips has yet to notice her grievous error in writing that Gaza's GDP at certainly less than $15 billion dollars is roughly comparable to that of Turkey's $850 billion dollars or more. Even if we take per capita figures Gaza's is still only a quarter of Turkey's.

In Ms. Phillip's case we either have to conclude that this formidable intellect equally able to argue metaphysics as global warming as medical practice as international politics amongst other matters she regularily blogs on was capable of imagining that an enclave one fiftieth or less as populous as Turkey and where most are umeployed and living below the poverty level dependent on international aid nevertheless produced as much wealth as Turkey or that she was simply indulging what Wikipedia calls 'confirmation bias' and other folk call being daft and bigoted for what is.

I suggest you might care to better safeguard your reputation.

revolution

Muslim immigration is the real problem that cannot be mentioned by politicians?
This is what Joe Public is worried about?
Another effete public school boy in the Blair mould is not the person to stand up for Britain.

John.

We are constantly told we actually need immigrants. Why? We managed perfectly well without immigrants until the 1950s. In Japan and South Korea - both 1st world advanced economies - there are 0% immigrants. In China - rapidly catching up with 1st world economies and containing around 1/6, (or 1/3?), of the world's population, there are no immigrants at all. So, how is it that they manage and we are told that we can't? We hear that the numbers of our indigenous population are falling - so what? Surely in an overcrowded world this is something to celebrate! It is also to be expected as the overall population becomes more prosperous. We are told that there are jobs the indigenous population refuse to do. We have overcrowded prisons full of people who do nothing but eat three meals a day at our expense. Can they not be put to doing what others refuse to do? We are told that we haven't got enough qualified specialists. Why are children not taught to read phonically, to spell,punctuate and learn grammar, multiplication tables and mental arithmetic in primary school? Why do they know no history, no geography and nothing about Classical or Biblical culture? Without all this they will clearly never shine in universities. Why so many absurd university degree courses - media studies etc. - and a derisory intake for serious subjects, medicine, engineering etc.? All this can be remedied with a thorough clearing of the Augean stables of our educational system. I conclude that we do not need one single immigrant and that we can solve all our own difficulties if we only have a mind to do so.

jonnyjackhammer

John. I agree. But be careful with the references to biblical culture and media studies or you may be mistaken for a reactionary. God (or more correctly religion) is rarely great and Media Studies is becoming a cultural stereotype.