The past few weeks have made the struggle in Afghanistan even more difficult

John Richardson

David Cameron is inadequate to the task of Prime Minister.

He was not 'Telling it like it is'. You are far too generous.
He was instead demonstrating his limitations. He was not 'Telling it like it is' in the USA either. Again, he is a mediocraty. Though I suppose the consequences of his American errors & confusion will not result in dead British servicemen.
Unlike his insults to Pakistan, delivered in India.
It's appalling, and you, at 'The Spectator', do not have the simple sense to state the blindingly obvious.

"The main reason to worry is one of personality."
Pakistan a center of 'Islamic radicalisation' and we are supposed to take this analysis seriously ?
Pathetic and...er....not true...er...make that not accurate.

Mycroft

The real illusion is to suppose that there was ever going to be a satisfactory conclusion in Afghanistan; Pakistan too is an incorrigible mess, while India is a civilized country, advancing into the future without having sacrificed its cultural heritage. I had always thought the partition of the subcontinent was one of the great tragedies (as it surely was in terms of the suffering that was created at the time), but I'm not sure that the removal of the Muslim heartlands and wild frontier country wasn't a precondition for having stable democratic India.

adrian drummond

I couldn't disagree more.

Certainly it's unfortunate that the Pakistani intelligence agency have canceled their visit to London but what was more important is the message that the Prime Minister sent. The same applies to Israel. It's about time some countries heard it like it is. Gaza is a prison camp regardless of who is to blame and that's unacceptable. Pakistan needs to get its myriad intelligence services working together and not working in cahoots with terrorsist groups.

Peter Hoskin

John Richardson: you know I was specifically referring to this ISI snub, and what it could tell us, when I mentioned "personality", don't you? Not the entire situation in Pakinstan and Afghanistan.

Of course the main worry, for us, in the region is Islamic radicalisation combined with a cocktail of nuclear weaponry and terrorist training camps. That's why I want the conflict in Afghanistan prosecuted effectively.

Long the UK

The Pashtun adventure has been a bloody great mess from the start.

Pakistan is our enemy and to pretend otherwise is dope.

Our soldiers are being killed by Taliban men who are supported by the Pakistani ISI. That is an intent of war against our country!!

Pakistan is such a bakset case that we in the West have to pay them off, so that they don't get upset!!! It's a frigging joke.

At least the Indians now firmly know that we are on their side against the banana republic that is Pakistan.

strapworld

John Richardson.

It must be very hard for you to hear a Prime Minister of the UK actually speak TRUTH! It must be very difficult to realise that the blessed Bliar and the coward Brown could not and did not tell the people the truth and led us into and kept us in wars which are simply not justified.

Perhaps, with your great wisdom on these matters you could explain to me, a simpleton, why so many of those home bred terrorists are of Palistani backgrounds? Why do the Pakistani authorities allow people to come and go into Afghanistan without interuption, and I am not talking about mountain pass routes either!

Perhaps you can explain why the words Cameron has spoken have been made by politicians in the USA and armed service personnel there, and never by a British Prime Minister? Cowardice perhaps?

The fact is, as Mycroft observes as does Long the UK and Mr Drummond, Pakistan is THE problem due to the fact that it holds nuclear weapons, and in all things talks and acts in a duplicious manner.

Cameron certainly was right in what he said. Both in Turkey and in India. Let us hope he is equally forthright within the EU!

Dimoto

I have a great affection for Pakistan and it's (mostly) very fine and generous people.

But it is difficult to argue with Mycroft - Pakistan has been a putative failed state since independence. The best solution would be a reunion with India, but that will not happen.

British interest is surely in favour of a very close relationship with India (warts and all), and to extricate ourselves from Bush's Afghan mess ASAP.

As for John Richardson, typical of the "security experts" playing their silly games, whilst the real national interest goes by the board.

TrevorsDen

Cameron is right to point out the sad fact - in effect that parts of the Pakistani state are engaged in killing British soldiers.

Mr Richardson should realise that Pakistan cannot have its cake and eat it.

If any sides have to be taken (if) then we should be clearly on India's side.

Strap;world is right in his criticism, but what we should remember is that Pakistan has the bomb; that is why we cannot let it go by that rogue parts of it be in cahoots with terrorists; that is a good reason to be in Afghanistan.

Baron

strapworld @ 1.53:

if indeed Pakistan’s the problem as you and the others assert, I agree it is, will the comment made by Cameron help?

whatever the headboy may have said or will say in private to the Pakistanis, in public the likes of Kayanis needed to be patted on the back and not kicked in the behind. The consequences of the WikiLeaks will pale compared to those from this incident unless some urgent mopping up follows.

adrian drummond @ 11.35

if you truly believe that ‘the ISI visit cancellation is less important than the message the PM has sent’ you must seek help, and urgently.

hate to agree with Obama, but he got it right after he first met Cameron. ‘A lightweight’, he remarked, and a lightweight he indeed is.

Mycroft

Did Obama really describe Cameron as a 'lightweight? Pretty dubious I think, the story emerged well after the meeting in leftist sources. Though Obama's judgement, whatever it was, somehow seems less important now than it once might have done.

Victor Southern

I suppose that John Richardson must be someone important although I can't imagine which of the many with that name he is.

I do hope that the others are so not far sunken into political antagonism that they cannot recognise simple facts.

Pakistan is not our friend and never will be.

Most of our "British" disaffected Muslim youth are of Pakistani origin.

A very large proportion of British residents of Pakistani origin or descent do not see they owe any allegiance to this country. For them Pakistan is "home".

Pakistan is a failed state where democracy is only a word and governments mainly change hands by coups and assassinations. It is a more populous version of Afghanistan with a somewhat better infra-structure.

It has always had tacit or real support from China who uses it as a surrogate to attack India, China's main commercial rival in Asia. China has never been our friend either from its modern formation in 1948. The Korean War, the HMS Amethyst incident, its support for North Korea and Iran and their nuclear ambitions should tell us the tale.

David Cameron hardly broke stride when saying this. He hardly pricked the bubble of Islamic fundamentalism either. Yet it is that which is the greatest possible threat to our civilisation.

Oddly, we see a strangeness in that Labour generally disposes towards Pakistan and the Tories towards India.

JohnAnt

The ISI spokesman said: 'Such irresponsible statements could affect our co-operation with Britain.'
Well, now, that makes you think, doesn't it.
Because technically, the ISI is supposed to be governed by the Government of Pakistan, and not to be self-determining.
Rather proves the point made by Cameron (and by Clinton, and by Bush).
The ISI is the problem to which it claims to be the solution. Let them stay away. Apart from improving the retail take at M&S, they couldn't contribute much.
All that stuff about "the country's military offensive against militants on the frontier with Afghanistan and the many victims of terrorist bombs in Pakistan."
They mean, the brave but terrified young army recruits from Pakistan's peaceful eastern interior, who've been sent as cannon fodder to confront the tribal areas on the western border who were never a willing part of Pakistan and don't intend to start now.
And the terrorist bomb victims are urban Pakistanis who support the idea of democracy, and who will never be allowed by islamist militants to get anywhere near power.
Forget borders. The North-West Frontier never belonged to anyone. The best thing would be to shove Waziristan etc outside Pakistan, exclude them from the Commonwealth, and make sure they don't take Islamabad's nuclear bomb key with them.

porkbelly

Cameron has evidently decided to match Obama's predilection for needlessly insulting allies and pointlessly trying to curry favor with enemies. Obama does it because he believes that, until he appeared on the scene as the Chosen One the world was back-to-front; He will now reorder the "Friends" and "Enemies" columns to His satisfaction.

But in Cameron's case it looks more like simple ineptitude, a habit of trying to lick each arse as it is presented to him without stopping to think of the consequences. Just as, at home, he desperately wants the approval of Guardian and Independent readers but seems genuinely uninterested in his own Conservative constituency.

He is not a statesman and Obama was quite right (even apocryphally) to call him a lightweight.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

This was posted in error in another blog. Apologies for duplication. The hypocrisy of David Milliband (the brother with the Ian Huntley immature moustache) amazes one. Concerning Cameron's remarks about Pakistan, he stated "The prime minister's comments this week told only part of the story and that has enraged people in Pakistan. It is vital he shows that he understands the need not just for Pakistan to tackle terrorism but that he will support them in doing so and understand the losses they have suffered." Such empathy from Milliband for the unfortunate Pakistani victims of the Taliband, is complete bull sh*t. In his spiteful jabs against Israel, he sees no purpose in exposing the misery caused by the Hamas to the innocent citizens of Israel. Hamas is but the latest title for terrorists previously called El Fatah, right back to the early Fellahin who attacked civilian victims. Milliband knows that Israel is a soft target, and there will be little criticism for him to face. He can suggest that Cameron in India has "a big mouth" and damages Britain with his inexperience and poor diplomacy, but Milliband is not speaking out for the sake of British interests, he is banging away at his usual communist manifesto of hate.

maddy1

You cannot go further in the cultural extremes generated between the British and Pakistani people. They deal out death to each other. If Christains are deemed innocent some zealot murders them in cold blood.Yet more unvoidable,natural disasters does even God hate this country? Some bloggers here are pointing to drastic solution. Di, Goldsmith amd Bhutto have the common dominators of international wealth! It is totally illogical to pretend to have something in common with Pakistan.

Stephen Green

Pakistan is indeed a failed state and their security services are not subject to governmental control. Clearly much of the tribal territories are equally out of control.
But I can think of another state that exhibits these symptoms and it is ironically called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But then much of the world is going that way. e.g. Spain,Italy,USA,Russia,Shri Lanka - and so it goes. In some cases for instance the formation of super states such as the EU may solve the problem but in most cases tribalism is the likely way of the world so that failed states will become the norm. In the meantime the concept of the Nation State and the United Nations is dying on the vine and will be replaced by increased religious and political extremeism.
Fortunately I only have a few years left on this planet but for the rest of you "Have a nice Day"