The coalition's choice over Winter Fuel Allowance

Victor Southern

I must declare a personal interest in that I am a pensioner but I would not freeze to death without this allowance.

Very specifically it was said in the election campaign that the Winter Fuel Allowance would not be cut. this was repeated on many occasions. I saw nowhere that the LibDems called for it to be cancelled.

There is an iron-clad reason for it not to be given to pensioners who live in warmer climes and that should be done.

davidk

Oh dear, someone really needs to have a quiet word with the inglorious ex-leader and his obssesional behaviour over benefit reforms. IDS needs to be shown the recent disastrous poll figures for the manifesto-reneging Lib Dems and asked whether he wants that sort of collapse in Tory support.

Sally Chatterjee

My parents get this. They spend it one a couple of cases of good wine. Need I say more?

les

A friend of mine is 63 and gets the winter allowance - she is lucky that she doesn't need it and says it goes towards her christmas presents!

Holly ......

So now we have pensioners freezing to death because of this being trimmed?
Don't we have pensioner deaths in this country from hypothermia every winter already? Some not being found for weeks on end,in the caring sharing compassionate society left by Labour.
To recap what the media would have us believe.
1.maniac prisoners will be roaming the streets,because all the staff have been fired & all the prisons are shut.They will not be monitored,because all the probation officers have been sacked along with all the police.
2.People will die,because all the hospitals have closed due to all the doctors & nurses being fired.
3.Schools will close,because all the parents
have opened smaller schools & shanghaied all the best teachers,leaving the rubbish ones unemployable.
4.People will starve to death & end up in the 'poor house',because all their benefits have been cut.
Not forgetting the old chestnut....
5.The coalition government will break up.
What a load of turkey twizzlers the British media spin to the British public.
The coalition,the Conservatives and the Lib Dems may be many things,but to be stupid enough to do some of the things,touted by the media,as being cast in stone,the last few months,is not one of them.
Labour are not in government any longer...
the media can now revert back to being sane.
No more bullsh*t please.
It's like an episode of little Britain...
Chanelle said,that chantelle said,that magenta said,that Cameron said,that an MP said,that Cleggy said that they are thinking of stopping the free milk.
You lot say...EVERYONE IS GONNA DIE! And the coalition is cracking.
It's rubbish,lazy and reporting ideas as truth is LYING!!!!!
No one will die who would not have died under Labour,yet many who have died under Labour would still be alive today under the coalition,the Conservatives or the Lib Dems...Think about it.

strapworld

Well, unlike some of the posts here, I welcome the allowance. I also use it to pay for the rising costs of electricity.

Now if IDS and Osborne can guarantee me that electricity will not rise from its present level I would take a cut. However as I have been told already that prices will be increasing in the autumn by the provider IDS and Osborne cannot.

Perhaps they could ask those people, such as mentioned here, who do not require this allowance to decline it this year. They can be promised a signed Christmas card from Cameron and Cleggy!

TrevorsDen

As several posters give example to, it seems to me that pensioners who pay tax should not get this allowance. There are many who do need it however and until something better crops up then politically it would be wise to tread carefully.

I do not agree that LibDem poll ratings are disastrous; the SKY headline poll has I think been debunked.
Libdems have campaigned for hung parliaments; they have one. It will clearly now mean that they are not a repository for protest votes.
If the govt make difficult decisions and ratings suffer then they are now a part of that. They need long term success and its no use wailing.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Both my husband and I are in our mid-seventies. I was raised to sleep with windows open, summer and winter, and contin ue this practice. I loathe double-glazing and refuse to put central heating on. I use our fuel allowance for extra nourishing marrow bones, etc. to add to the stock pot, and occasional replacements for winter clothing. We walk a lot and exercise, and I am disgusted to see mould in younger people's homes because they dont let any fresh air in. Sorry if I sound a bore, but it's one of G-d's gifts to step out briskly on a cold morning. I pray I will be granted this pleasure a while longer.

Mycroft

Sorry, but it would an appalling political mistake to abolish the allowance, far worse than abolishing the free milk for children; simply a non-starter. Whether it is a good or bad thing in itself has nothing to do with it.

Baron

since global warming is failing to pan out as predicted by the ones in the know, perhaps the coalition will introduce a summer fuel allowance, too.

more to the point. Why doesn’t the HMCR simply tweak the coding of those over 65 below a certain level of income?

Occasional Ostrich

When you look at the 'pot' this is paid from, all it really is is a portion of one's pension deferred until just BEFORE the cold weather hits, in case one is too indigent to save it onesself. Of course, by the time the gas bill rolls in in February it's all been spent on Christmas pressies?

Occasional Ostrich

davidk, don't knock IDS as being 'obsessional' about welfare reform. It's the job DC appointed him to do.

JohnAnt

WFA: I don't need it, but I'm sure there must be some who do. The problem is, how to find them? Not through the benefits system, since that rewards the non-savers who already soak up extra pension and HB rights, council tax exemption etc. There are already considerable perks for pensioners. Maybe it's just too wasteful to have the WFA at all, what with admin costs etc. So on balance, scrap it entirely.

Free bus travel - wait a mo, have you any idea how many of the able-bodied under 60s drift around without paying a bean? Take away all travel concessions except for those unemployed and actively seeking work, and the over-65s or over-70s. Restrict permitted usage times in metro areas so the congestion at rush hour isn't worse than it is already. Alternatively, give the over 60s a 25% or 50% discount on all travel. That'd not be a hardship.

Free prescriptions - difficult one. £7 plus per pop is quite a whack if you're an OAP with a medical condition. The government could/should re-negotiate OTC prices with the pharmaceuticals and drive costs down. (It can also impress on GPs that prescribing ten different medicines per patient at one time is not the way to go. Yes, that does happen with elderly patients.) Or maybe it's time to start a form of mandatory insurance that would include pharma-products?

TV license: I've never understood why tv should be tax-subsidised for the elderly. Most of them have Sky/satellite dishes, many have broadband.
Radio users (i.e. essential news information) does not need a license fee. There Is No More Money. What next, free copies of the 'Guardian' for all?

And why is the cinema free or subsidised, not just for pensioners but for any benefit recipients? Ludicrous. Again, entertainment, not essential.

Free eye tests for those who are prescribed them annually by GPs (e.g. diabetics). This can't be a major cost. Otherwise, a 25-50% discount for the over 60s. Eyetests are not usually a big-spend item.

In2minds

The first time I got this money I spent it on tyres for my motorcycle.

St Bruno

I just wonder if the demise of the Winter Fuel Allowance will fund the lose of Income Tax when the 10 per cent tax rate is reinstated? I am not holding my breathe for that to happen anyway. I use the WFA to pay my extortionate gas and electricity bill that seem to go up every verse end, and my Road Tax for my car which now has added Green Tax, soon to be added to the energy bills.
It’s really nice to see the Muppet Show is back on the telly now and again but it is rightly called the Coalition Government. As this is the silly season maybe Spitting Image should be dug up but is that too Non-PC for today’s generation. Wednesday tomorrow, maybe Private Eye has something to say, as it does.
Are we there yet? As most kids will say. Is the mounting National Debt reducing, just remind me how much it is now? If I see that King fella shuffling his papers again on the BBC I’ll scream!

Dimoto

Middle class pensioners, (most of whom have worked hard and been prudent), have been the biggest and easiest targets of the "sacrifices" demanded to ameliorate the national deficit and the banks (self achieved) wrecked balance sheets.

There is a massive wealth transfer underway from pensioners to banks and the treasury.
Until the current ridiculous, artificial suppression of interest rates is wound up, there is NO case for stripping out the meagre state subsidies to these people.

IDS - From hard-right to professional hand wringer. It's always the late converts who do most damage !

A pensioner

Unlike some people, I do spend my winter fuel allowance on fuel - although, as I buy at summer prices, I have to save it up until I purchase the fuel the following year. I am officially in fuel poverty (heating the house takes more than a tenth of my total income) and I pay tax on my pension. I probably wouldn't freeze to death if I didn't have it, but I certainly welcome it to help offset the bills, particularly as my savings are losing their value all the time and that's what I use to buy the fuel with. Savings, of course, which mean I'm not eligible for any benefits. If people are worried about pensioners spending the WFA on things other than fuel, it could always come in the form of a voucher.

Frank P

Dimoto 11.41pm

Wise words, sir.

Pot Head

So, as I suspected, CH's posters are ancient !

Dave B

Re: free TV license. Couldn't this be paid for by the BBC, rather than The Treasury?

Ian Walker

Dimoto - there is anything but a wealth transfer from the elderly. One of the reasons that any government tries to keep inflation low is precisely to stop that happening.

Why not give the WFA on a district-by-district basis, based on meteorological data? Oh, and one you qualify, you can still get paid even if you move to Spain - that's ridiculous.

Double Gloucester

People always seem to forget where the money to pay such benefits comes from. Why should my son, on a modest wage, pay tax to fund winter fuel allowance and free prescriptions for his far more wealthy step-father and grandmother. Why should my newly-wed daughter, unable to afford to stop work and start her own family, pay tax to fund free school milk for her wealthier step-sister's child? All benefits paid without regard to the needs of the recipient are wrong. Even Marx knew that - the second half of his famous dictum was "to each according to his need". The coalition will always be wrong footed when arguing about individual benefits. They need to establish the bigger argument that less well off people should not be taxed to fund benefits for the better off. That ought to be a vote winner. The changes to individual benefits can then follow.

Chris lancashire

This benefit is amongst the most stupid invented by Brown. Many don't need it and shouldn't receive it. For those in need, why not uprate the (taxable) State Pension by the same pre-tax cash amount so that pensioners receive it throughout the year - or are they so doddery they have to receive it in one lump marked "Winter Fuel" from an all-knowing government?
Lastly, why does it start at 60 when all parties are agreed the State Pension age should be raised?
Scrap this demeaning, patronising benefit and stick the same amount on the State Pension.

David McClements

Relating to the proposed cut in the Winter Fuel Allowance.

It doesnt matter a monkeys whether it is right or wrong to scrap this allowance it is completely irrelvant.

What IS relevant is that both David Cameron and his Poodle Nick Clegg agreed in their pre election statements that they would protect both the elderly and vulnerable. In other words they are both a pair of liars.

It does not matter whether one pensioner needs the Winter Fuel allowance more than another pensioner does, what really matters is the principle. That is, for example, if you give a kid a sweet then you do not snatch it back!!!

Both these Con/Lib politicians are liars and self interested and motivated opportunists.

David Raynes

The WFA and particularly the way it is paid, separate from the State Pension, was always more NuLabour politics than efficient.

If any extra allowance is to be paid it should be paid with the State pension in two tranches, at or near the end of November and around the end of February. Thus paid, the cost of paying would be much less and it would be subject to income tax.

The current method of paying and even deciding who gets paid, is an extrordinarily inefficient and expensive process. A typical Gordon Brown nonesense.

JR

Erm. I did try and point this out on Saturday in response to David Blackburn's ridiculous post (my comment below). The Spectator is being spun at every turn. Keep listening and you might learn something.

"This is an incorrect analysis. What the article is suggesting isn't that he has the financial muscle to do welfare reform. It is saying that No10 have accepted the politics of middle class benefits (mainly for pensioners) being cut to plug the £3bn cost of the Centre For Social Justice reforms for working age benefits.

IDS may still resign if a workable package can't be delivered."

2trueblue

Some promises must be upheld otherwise the whole thing is a sham. We had 13yrs of chatter form Bliar/Brown/Liebore, lets try and stick with something. Liebore unsured that those pensioners who have been self reliant were stripped of pretty well anything (including the uplift on the part of their state pension that they had paid extra for over their working lives) so to continue in the vein that a promise can be broken why bother? We have had 13yrs of Liebores vacuous twittering the Coalition must hold the line somewhere.
IDS is doing a lot of good work but must resit taking from those who have been prudent, hardworking, and do not get much in return for their efforts.

Private Schultz

My Dad (80 next year) feels rather embarrassed about getting the WFA, since he's lucky (and prudent) enough not to have any need of it.

I think some form of means testing, erring on the generous side, should be introduced, so that those in 'A pensioner''s situation still benefit, but those in my father's position or better (and there are plenty of those) don't get WFA any more.

Anyone any idea whether it is also paid automatically to those pensioners who live abroad some or all of the year, or does one need to be resident here to receive it?

Richard of York

Sad to see Holly is still hitting the bottle and ranting on here.....you go girl you rock babe....woo woo.

John Richardson

JR @ 10:21pm.

I think I remember your useful contribution.
However, I am surprised you honestly expect a MSM journalist to 'learn' something.
Why ?
When did they in the past ?
How do you think they got the job ?
What do you think these CH 'Spectator' articles are for ?

--------------------------------------------
2trueblue @ 10:34pm

You ask, '...why bother ?' with party politics and elections.

The reason 'they' bother is that some people, despite being otherwise normal, are so determined to ignore reality that they will insist on participating in the whole demeaning fraud. They STILL vote Lab/Con/ Lib Dem. despite all experience. Idiots.
Why should those famous Nigerian fraudsters stop sending out letters when so many are determined to reply to 'General Biemndo' and send away their money ?
Why should the Westminster MPs (who have , as you know ,one of the most generous Pension Schemes in THE WORLD) stop telling idiots the lies they so obviously want to hear ?
It's making them rich and secure. MPs families are well rewarded into the bargain. Their NHS treatment is prompt & safe. When they telephone 999, the Police actually attend !
You know 'trueblue', some people, even those of advanced years, manage to exist in this Welfare State and heroically ignore the fact that the whole system is obviously designed for.....

".....taking from those who have been prudent, hardworking, and do not get much in return for their efforts."

Hard to believe the self deceit I know.
Hard to find sympathy those who are so self deceiving isn't it ?

Ben G

Delighted to have my benefits trimmed back. But can I also have my taxes trimmed back too?

Victor Southern

Richard of York. If you have nothing better to post than that rude and irrelevant snarl why do you bother?

In any case it isn't your affair since you told us you were emigrating to Florida. Winter heating is not necessary there.

MARIE

Winer fuel allowance

Dear Sir
What happens to people like myself and my Partner who are on low income but are just above the poverty amount to be able to claim benifits. How are we going to get help to pay our winter bills?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

MARIE: My better half says "run a bit".
My suggestion, get a burkah and stagger off to the local Benefits Office.

Dimoto

Of course middle-class pensioners "feel embarrassed about receiving benefits", it's who they are.
Very, very odd that a Conservative government has decided that this group should be the major victims of the recovery strategy.
Whichever way you look at it, "tolerated" high inflation, negative interest rates, reductions of cash benefits, and degradation of services to the elderly, are mainly targeted at this group.

Apart from the unfortunates who have been made redundant, and the small number of high earners paying more tax, the working population has not really been touched yet, with many enjoying bonus low mortgage rates.

So much for targeting the feckless benefit cheats, encouraging a prudent savings culture and "we're all in this together".

Somebody in the Treasury has persuaded team Osborne that the quiet, virtuous, cash-rich, pensioners are the easy and obvious milch cows.

I hope this comes back to bite them come election time.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Dimoto: In theory I agree with you. But, and this is a big but:
"I hope this comes back to bite them come election time".
So what happens? Heaven forbid we have the Comrades back? I can't see the apathetic electors here going for anybody but the three main parties. This despite them being rubbish. Clever me voted UKip. Fat lot of good they are too.

John Richardson

"Somebody in the Treasury has persuaded team Osborne that the quiet, virtuous, cash-rich, pensioners are the easy and obvious milch cows.

I hope this comes back to bite them come election time."
Dimoto.

Dimoto, but we had an election.
Britain lost and the Party System won.

Just who do you think the angry pensioners, with any savings left, will vote for next time around ?

Regards.

Dimoto

Anne - I was thinking more of some serious damage at the local elections.
Remind them who elected them.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Dimoto: Local politicians? Never seen such a pack of wanna be big shots. Most remain little fish in a little pond, but some gobble up the fry and go to be bigger fish in the big pond. I think they are all in it together, whatever party, and split the profits between themselves.(paranoid thoughts or feasible)?

anthony reeves

mmmm i wonder if the heating is on in the houses of parliment ,,, you know where that,,,, if you are unsure , it's where all those m,ps' go when they have finished drinking there wine that they have purchased on exspences,,,most of them go for a sleep befor they go and have some more wine and a cigar in there smoking room,,,, big laugh on the rest of us