MPs in four-letter tirades against IPSA staff

Sally Chatterjee

These MPs should get out more. If they think IPSA is poor, they ought to look at the performance of Job Centres, the railways, slack councils and a lot more.

GeoffH

"The hypocrisy of MPs, which has accompanied the expenses scandal at every turn, is stomach-turning, indicative of latent amorality and fatuous arrogance. "

Easy, isn't it, to take the high moral ground with complaining MPs.

But reading the various accounts of IPSA's methods, treatment of individuals, etc it's immediately apparent they are bunch of bureaucratic jobsworths whose behaviour when replicated as it is daily in the NHS, Job Centres, DHSS, Local council parking offices etc drives us, the public, to the wall in righteous anger.

I'm not sure why MPs are supposed to meekly tolerate jobsworths' obstructive behaviour and we are entitled to be angry at the same sort of treatment dished out by other organs of the State.

There's little point in being smug about MPs and telling them it serves them right. The fact is the system is another Gordon Brown monumental cock-up and we should be as angry about that as those on its receiving end.

All that was needed was a Parliamentary Debit Card issued to all MPs and full publication of the details of every transaction on the cards, immediately they were cleared through the banking system, and for us, the public, to see what their expenses were being spent on. Instant retribution would have followed for miscreants. Justifiable and reasonable expenses would have gone by without a blink.

R

No defending the rudeness of the MPs in question (I'd get fired if I spoke to my support staff like that, and rightly so), but their assessment of the IPSA system is spot on!

It's also ridiculously expensive - 80 staff to administer the expenses of 650 people? 8 would be more like it

Yarnefromhorsham

Tell you what - lets try a new approach. Why not leave it to the Speaker.

Slim Jim

'Neither a general election nor the new system has proved cathartic; what will?'

A few MPs' heads on Tower Bridge?

JohnPage

Name the names.

MPs deserve not one jot of sympathy. They voted effectively to outsource authorisation of their expenses at uncapped cost. Was it put out to tender? No, because they were desperate for a quick fix.

Will MPs learn from this? No, they're too self-important.

Name the names.

Anon Commons staff

I work for an MP and have some experience of IPSA, they do not say what they are doing, lied to me, refused to answer legitimate questions about why they have cut our pay and finally fob me off with an answer about 'janitorial services'. On another occasion they had missed out my pension contribution, I ran up they blamed (wrongly) the House of Commons authority, me and then said it was probably ok and did not matter. Only after many prompts did they apologise. IPSA are a terribly badly run organisation (one staff member was told they had their cleaning staff processing claims). They should be disbanded. That said there is no excuse for being rude (retuning their rudeness) as the ones responsible do not talk to MPs or staff - it will be the minions.

Charlie

Just listening to Tom Harris and others on 5Live and they really don't get it.

MP are only now being subjected to the same controls that employees and businesses have had to live with for years, ironically imposed by the self same MPs: HMRC, VAT etc. all online with systems tested and de-bugged live on the public under threats of penalties for late or incorrect submissions.

The icing on the cake was TH complaining that having to wait for reimbursement for expenses was leading to MPs living hand-to-mouth checking their bank accounts daily to see if they have sufficient funds!

Truly I feel for them.. I wish I could 'struggle' on 65K pa plus expenses.

Vulture

"Neither an election nor a new Parliament has proved cathartic. What will?"

How abouut a military coup d'etat, and putting them up against a wall? Worked for Chile.

Michael St George

(1) Bring back Elizabeth Filkin as Chairman or CEO.

(2) Re-draft the terms of reference and guidelines with an overarching statement of principle of "only incurred wholly and exclusively in performance of parliamentary duties"

(3) Absolute prohibition on employing spouses, children, family members etc etc out to a specified limit eg nothing closer than first cousins

(4) back her up with a management board comprising a rotating team of professional auditors with experience of private sector expense audits on secondment from the Big 4

(5) provide accommodation in London for use only by MPs with (designates and non-flippable) main residence more than 25 miles away

startledcod

GeoffH and R both make extemely valid points.

Why does it take a staff of 80 to administer the expenses of 650? Why does IPSA need a full communications department?IPSA is far, far too big. Why do we need IPSA at all? Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Publish the rules and all claims, the minute they are made, online and let the people who pay (aka taxpayers) see where their money is being spent. Provide a channel for querying any expenses.

The knowledge that their constituents will see everything will, I believe, improve MP's spending decisions.

John Bracewell

If the 'I' in IPSA really stands for Independent, then the problem is that there is an incompetent manager in charge of it. A competent manager would take each complaint and tweak the system to produce workable procedures whilst ensuring that the abusers (MPs) were named and shamed. As each problem was solved, the number of complaints would drop, the competent manager would then turn his/her attention to streamlining the system to reduce costs by reducing the number of people required to run it. That would be done by natural wastage rather than redundancies to reduce pain and operational costs. The above is of course what would happen in the private sector. Unfortunately, IPSA is run by, and staffed by civil servants, so the solution will no doubt be another 'top' mandarin will be commissioned to produce another report on how IPSA should be set up and there will be another upheaval for MPs and staff and the system will splutter on from one disaster to another. So, the solution is either, outsource it to a competent private sector accountancy firm, or, put in a private sector manager.

Simon Stephenson

"Neither a general election nor the new system has proved cathartic; what will?"

Recognition that:-

1. At least 90% of all system and process failures are identifiable and correctable during the design stages.

2. These identifications and corrections won't happen as long as implementation is under the control of those whose thought processes are limited to an ability to identify what will work, and not what won't.

3. The essence of politics has become winning general elections, and this involves mimicking as far as possible the masses' approach to problem-solving. This, regrettably, doesn't involve anything much more mentally sophisticated than trial and error.

So perhaps the way forward is to promote the idea that national government will only work effectively if it is freed from the necessity to structure policy around homespun remedies and catchy slogans.

Hugh

Seems odd to criticise MP's for describing the system as an abortion in a piece likening the last government's enthusiasm for regulation to the production of "trailer-trash pop out kids". At least you didn't swear, I suppose.

Chuck Unsworth

Astounding. Parliament puts its house in order by setting up IPSA - and now MPs spend their time complaining about their own chosen machinery. What chance is there of any competence in putting together legislation which affects the whole country then?

IPSA is a disproportionately huge organisation. The task could easily be carried out by a small-ish firm of accountants - and much more cheaply.

That said, why did MPs agree to (and oversee) the setting up and funding of this leviathan? It's their problem, they should deal with it. Where's Bercow in all of this?

Charlie

"IPSA is a disproportionately huge organisation. The task could easily be carried out by a small-ish firm of accountants - and much more cheaply."

True, but you forget they are dealing with professional and proficient expense 'claimants' so you'll need an SAS of the audit world to wean them off the teat. ;o)

Yam Yam

Why not institute a flat-rate system of salaries and allowances similar to that many local authorities have done for their councillors, and which would include notional elements for accomodation, travel, office expenses, etc. Ministers would receive additional responsibility payments based on their roles.

That way, MPs would all receive an agreed and transparent amount and IPSA and the entire bureaucracy involved in submitting and analysing receipts could be done away with.

Otherwise, like councillors, how MPs choose to spend their allowance would thereafter be entirely a matter between them and HM Revenue & Customs.

GeoffH

The issue here is not, despite my earlier post, really about how an expenses scheme should be set up and monitored. Or what expenses should cover. Or how much MPs should be paid.

But about why MPs should tolerate the obstructive behaviour of jumped-up jobsworths. We get angry about when we encounter it and I really don't see why we should be smug and sanctimonious when MPs are subjected to it.

Frank P

Stop being silly - all of you! Why would anyone want to become an MP and allegedly represent the fickle demands of a fucked-up and selfish electorate comprising a melange of demanding, inimical newcomers and resentful: grumpy indigenes and a raft of malingering welfare claimants, if it were not to feather their own nests and sell their influence to the highest bidder.

Fiddling their exes is the least of their peccadilloes. Expecting MPs to behave with integrity and national pride is a futile dream. They're all at it in one way or another. As for the people who work for them in the corridors of power: draw your wages and think yourselves lucky to have paid employment. And when your masters display excessive greed or incivility - shop 'em to the press. That's one of the perks of your job, ennit?

Just in case anybody should be interested as to why I got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning it was because my day started with the news that Nasil Adir is coming back to Britain to 'face the the music'. I recommend that anyone who plays the stock market should invest in the Company that manufactures brown envelopes, as I'm sure a run on them is about to commence (no matter whether to replace recent sales or in anticipation of imminent ones).

WTF is coming off here? Some of us have long memories. I hope Private Eye has got its sleuths on the job (on overtime at Bank Holiday double-bubble).

JohnAnt

"One MP who reportedly complained to Ipsa did so accompanied by three of his staff."
A family outing, obviously. Or maybe one of the trio was introduced as 'And this is Luigi, who gets awfully upset when I'm upset, get me?'

Robert Eve

Abolish IPSA and don't replace it.

Simon Too

IPSA was a fudge foisted on MPs by the party leaderhips who were not prepared substantially to reform the system of pay, allowances and expenses.

As a result MPs can make most of the claims they used to, but they then disappear into the maw of IPSA.

Yes, there is a certain glee that MPs have to deal with the usual unduly expensive, over-manned, low competence, protracted specimen of "public services" that they so readily and negligently foist on us. On the other hand the fundamental system of pay, expenses and allowances remains unreformed; and the taxpayer pays through the nose once again.

David Cameron eagerly helped push this dodgy arrangement through. He is now the one who needs to put it right, not just for the sake of MPs but, above all, for the sake of the electorate.

Robert Taggart

Hoping the IPSA staff gave as good as they got ! %&#@ !

idonotbelieveit

GeoffH - you're not Mr Hoon are you?

John Richardson

"...produced half-baked policies like trailer-trash pop out kids."

Mr Blackburn, you show 'true class' with this expression.

George Laird

Dear All

David pitches in with:

“Scrapping IPSA and starting again (with a little thought this time) would seem the sensible option”.

Exactly want I would say if I want to develop networking opportunities and contacts.

Question, does anyone feel the MPs pain apart from David?

I suspect not.

Having said that the IPSA was rushed in, no real thought, knee jerk politics.

Does scrapping it help?

Is it not more money down the plug hole?

A leader of the resistance is Tom Harris, the Che Guevara of Glasgow South.

Tom has found a cause, cash, to be exact our cash travelling across the counter to him.

His famous cot incident is the stuff of legend.

Where he asked the Fees Office should his son sleep when visiting him in London?

In a cot Tom and you pay for it out of your MP salary because it has nothing to do with your duties.

Tom has never forgiven me for pointing that out to him.

So, now the ‘war on terror’ has a new front, the offices of the IPSA, armies of MPs rushing forward under terrible conditions, the fallen being trampled by the hysterical screaming for their free underground passes.

In true WW1 spirit, Denis MacShane has crossed no man’s land to pass a quick note and box of chocolates to a female volunteer and then returned to his own lines.

Upset someone, box of chocolates!

What a pity that CCTV footage isn’t finding its way to the public domain, perhaps some people might be forced to keep a civil tongue in their head.

Hopefully, someone will do a movie along the lines of the Great Escape; perhaps Tom Harris can play Bartlett otherwise known as Big X. Denis Macshane will want to play Hilts:

“that’s Captain Hilts”.

The main character will have to be the cash, a silent portrayal, wades of the stuff hanging out MPs pockets during roll call.

My main concern is finding a good director, perhaps Tom Harris can step up and of course since it is a project, and he has experience, no one will object to him claiming expenses but if he tries to sneak a cot on set on the basis there are short MPs that still won’t be paid for.

The system needs to be fair, transparent, speedy and accountable, nothing more and nothing less.

Some people need to get the message the gravy train is over.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Chris

I'm pleased, in some ways, that MPs are getting to experience this. The habit of providing very poor service and then complaining that you've been bullied if someone complains has become universal in Britain. In airports or railway stations they threaten you constantly with the police if you so much as raise an eyebrow at their deliberate rudeness (look at the recent video taken by a disabled man trying to get some help from Northern Rail guards if you've been stuck indoors for a decade)

Good for the MPs.