Cable: interim immigration cap is "very damaging to the UK economy"

Man in a Shed

This looks like Red Vince on manoeuvres again getting his resignation excuse right. Maybe he thinks Ed Miliband will chose him in a wondrous new second coming of the left.

But lets also pay some attention to what he's saying. At a time of employment stress with the greatest numbers of graduates this country has ever produced employers would rather employ from abraod than train up our people. That's a scandal, and one Vince has no plans to do anything about.

Maybe we could get a new business secretary from India or China - they'd be cheaper, smarter and probably better qualified.

John Bracewell

Why does the Coalition tolerate Cable undermining it all the time? get rid of him.

James

Unfortunately in words of Obi Wan Kenobi:

If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

Better that Vent is inside the tent looking disgruntled than outside the tent leading a coup against Clegg.

Laura McEvoy

I'm not sure anyone would shed any tears if Uncle Vince were to leave the government?
All he's managed so far is to criticise the government on various policies and come up with crackpot ideas like the graduate tax.

Paul

I agree John - the idea that Cable has been tested to the limits of collective responsibility is undermined by the fact he's regularly moaning about how he disagrees with his own government's policies - let him quit; he's been overrated anyway

perdix

What we need to see are some examples (no company names) of the actual skills required by the companies which were refused visas to judge whether they merely wished to import cheap workers to do the jobs which perhaps could be filled by British employees.

Noa

One really would like to see Vince Cables 'for instances' spelt out to understand the validity or otherwise of the cases he is arguing but surely its incorrect to argue that a temporary immigration cap is damaging to the UK economy?

It mistakenly equates a requirement for scarce skills with a right to citizenship and permanent residence.

Even granting some credence to the self serving interests of foreign companies any such recruitment should be transient, until the develop those core skills in UK citizens and commit to developing permanent businesses here; as UK companies have to do when they bid for work abroad.
It's called offset and it's the quid pro quo for access to our money and country.

So Vince Cable, rather than reactively accepting the mirror-protectionist arguments of non-UK companies, should advocate and advance a culture of protecting and developing the UK's interests, obligating foreign companies to employ British citizens, providing development programmes for its skilled workers and graduates and in doing so, transfering those scarce skills to the country which is paying for them.
Failure to comply should result in penalties to trade, from introducing a jobs and UK earnings profit levy to a total ban and revocation of licence.

Nickle

If you listen to enough Vince Cable pronouncements, eventually he will say something that is correct. After all, if you wait long enough a monkey at a typewriter will produce War and Peace.

In this case he is right. Restricting immigration at the top end is bad. What you need to do is look at the reason why? It's because they can't control illegal immigration, or won't. With 500,000 illegal immigrants in London (more than the unemployed), not paying taxes, consuming services, the problem lies there. It's not with top end legal immigration.

If you get rid of the illegals, then you make jobs for the unemployed, and free up housing. Get the unemployed off benefits and the bill goes down.

Even the 500K is a likely underestimate. The FCO estimates 1-3 million Nigerians in the UK. The home office official figures are 135K. That's one nation.

Get rid of illegal immigration and the UK benefits.

whatawaste

What about the scandal of the intra company transfer scheme where Indian consultancy firms transfer their workers from Mumbai to the UK for a few months, pack them into flats and continue to pay their salaries and taxes back in India?

This has hit the UK IT contractor sector big time. Graduates thinking of an IT career can think again. I am also reminded of Pakistan's appeal for medical staff - surely it is obscene for the NHS to hog the best medical staff from the Asian sub continent. I presume that these immigrants are also prepared to work for a lower salary.

jon dee

If Mr Cable has a point to raise regarding the interim immigration cap, or for that matter, any topic relating to business, he can do it at Cabinet or within government.

It is quite unnecessary, apart from personal agrandizement,to seek media publicity to support a department query without the agreement of colleagues.

His claim to have been driven to "the limit of collective responsibility" is suspect and convenient, given his pattern of hand-wringing announcements.

Clearly not a team player, a man of guile, but not to be trusted.

Perhaps the job is too big for him, despite his vanity.

justathought

Presumably Vince Cable is referring to a file full of Tier 1 "highly skilled" applicants.

The Immigration Minister Damien Green referred to this group when the 'immigration route' research paper was released on 6th September.The minister said:
'We need to understand more clearly why a significant proportion of students are still here more than 5 years after their arrival. And we also need a system which can scrutinise effectively, and if necessary take action against, those whose long-term presence would be of little or no economic benefit.'
He also pointed to evidence that some migrants coming in under the Tier 1 highly skilled work route are not doing specialised jobs. And he added:
'I was also struck by some of the individual applications I saw under the [Tier 2] skilled worker category: people running takeaway restaurants and production-line workers on salaries in the low £20,000s. These are not the sort of jobs we talk about when we think of bringing in skilled immigrants who have talents not available among our own workforce or the unemployed...
'We will not make Britain prosperous in the long term by telling our own workers "don't bother to learn new skills, we can bring them all in from overseas".'

It would be very helpful to understand Cable if he would publish his research to compare his file with the 180,000 overseas student visa and the very loosely defined Tier 1 visas in the Minister for immigration's file

AB

does anyone doubt that a crude cap on immigration is potentially damaging to the economy? The real issue is that we need to be a lot more fussy about who we let in. Yes to highly educated professionals, no to those who can't (or won't) contribute to the economy and despise our society. It's not rocket science.

AngloWelshDragon

@ Man in a Shed @ Perdix

Agree with you both entirely. Whether it is graduates or skilled and unskilled labour surely we have enough capacity in this country not to require immigrants to fill the vacancies that exist.

My division of a large construction company directly employs 240 people in our region. On top of that we have 70 apprentices and intend to take on a further 30 by the end of the financial year.

I don't understand why other companies can't make a similar investment in our own people and communities.

The left want to force immigration on us for ideological reasons and capitalists want unfettered immigration to force down the pay and conditions of ordinary people but conservatives should be more interested in facilitating opportunites for existing citizens and thereby creating skilled, economically sustainable, stable communities.

Bonzodog

Could someone please tell Vince that the indigenous British IT industry is on its knees because of both out-sourcing and also the bringing in of foreign (esp Indian) IT workers to the UK, not because they are good (although some are) but mainly because they are cheaper. There was a report the other day which stated the British IT graduates are having a nightmare time getting that first job. I wonder why?

Chris

The immigration cap is an utterly ridiculous idea designed solely to keep the nutters happy. Of course it's damaging our economy and of course it should be dropped.

BROWNLOATHER

I cannot help feeling smug. I knew this man was a dud three years ago and when faced with responsibility he has proved me right in spades. He is just another one of those fatuous left wing idiots who can always find a reason to object and do nothing. Ask him to come up with a solution which will work outside of a Circus tent however and "Answer came there none".

John Bracewell

Right or wrong, Cable needs to learn to talk in Cabinet and then to reflect the Cabinet's view in the media.

Magiric

"It would be very helpful to understand Cable if he would publish his research.."

You think has actually has a "file-full", do you? This is a politician speaking; I wouldn't believe it unless I'd read it and checked it with the companies concerned. And then I'd want to know what their agenda was too.

Liz Brown

Most other countries successfully put a cap on immigration - esp the USA. However, if a company wants to bring in someone from another country to fill a specific job that cannot be filled locally, that company applies for a work visa which is rarely refused. Why is it that only in the UK, do we appear to make such a dig's breakfast over stuff?????
Incidentally, if the sainted (not) Vince were to go, I for one, wouldn't weep and would be even more thrilled if he could take that ghastly Huhne with him

Maggie

It all sounds very vague. What companies/skills is he talking about? The only people publicly complaining about the cap so far is Asian restaurant owners who are apparently too stupid to train chefs and have to import them. - An argument that doesn 't hold up because imported chefs from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh have no experience in the English palate and have to be retrained when they get here to cater for European tastes and produce.

Bryan Odell

to "perdix"
HEAR ! HEAR !
COME ON CABLE ! SHOW US THE FILE !
JUST PUBLISH IT ONLINE !
NOT GOING TO ?
CANT ?
THOUGHT NOT.

michael

Beeb-Tass are ramming Labour's 'damaging cuts' agenda down our throats several times every local/national broadcast....

...Interesting new angle from Mr living wage.

George Laird

Dear All

Government doesn’t suit Vince Cable.

I don’t know if he has become ‘wire happy’ or has been keeping mad ideas in a basket and taking them to work with a packed lunch.

Should there be an immigration cap?

Yes.

So, rather than let him spout tripe he should be put on the spot, does he see the logic of controlled immigration?

If he says yes, his complaint is PC nonsense and if he says no, then he is unsuitable for Government.

Unemployment is a problem and needs addressed.

He says he has a "file full" of companies who are suffering because of it”.

Is he willing to publish the list of companies paying poor wages?

That is a question that the ex Glasgow Councillor should answer.

I am starting to lose respect for him.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Gawain

Man in the Shed has summed this up perfectly. Let's employ British graduates first. Perhaps we can club together to buy Vince a nice garden shed for Vince so he could be pensioned off to titivate his herbaceous borders instead of undermining the government.

TrevorsDen

As nickle says - the problem is not with high end skilled immigration but mass immigration of relatively unskilled people who have taken away jobs from British people. 1 million new jobs form immigrants and 1 million more UK residents on benefits.

I think Cable is right and a lot of British business will agree with him (thats why he is being pushed into saying it) - a limit to skilled immigration will not help us.

HJ

It really would be most helpful if Vince Cable could provide some examples and numbers of the types of skills he's talking about.

It certainly can't be in any branch of engineering, for example.

whatawaste

Over on the BBC's Business blog some of the posts on this same topic are from soon to be ex RBS IT staff. The state owned bank is exporting thousands of jobs to India.

When is the MSM going to stand up and be counted? This is all about cheap labour. I have first hand experience dealing with Indian IT contractors: technically they are as good as a British worker, but very few are able to grasp the business model which is crucial to designing and implementing IT systems.

I wonder if the MSM will have the same quiet fortitude when UK journalists are replaced by foreign contractors?

Neil Wilson

So with the entire European continent to go at, coming in at some 500 million souls, certain businesses can't get the staff they require.

Do we actually want such rubbish businesses here?

michael

Do we want rubbish businesses?... its better than a cash in hand black economy where you either get under paid or ripped off.

Roger Davies

Sounds like a lot of hot air to me. Bluster Cable just likes to see his name in print as often as possible. He is just another Labourite, good at objections but no use at actually doing anything. There are hundreds of thousands of experience British nationals unemployed and desperate for retraining, so Bluster get on with the Training Programme.

Colonial Chief

I think we are missing the main point. We need quality graduates and if they happen to be foreign, then so be it. Unfortunately our own graduates are not as intelligent or hard working as the foreigners!

Osred

Yes Vince, we need thousands of more 'students' to fill those 1 or 2 room 'colleges' I used to see above my local dry cleaners.

Edward McLaughlin

Man in a Shed.

Got it in one. That a developed nation like ours tells its young people that they are not good enough and so should be replaced by others, is disgusting.

Colonial Chief

Conscience is a nice thing, but business is business. If our youngster’s are no good drug-crazed, good for nothing dependant on benefits then foreigners are necessary to keep the economy going!

Noa Zrk

Colonial Chief September 17th, 2010 3:29pm

"I think we are missing the main point. We need quality graduates and if they happen to be foreign, then so be it. Unfortunately our own graduates are not as intelligent or hard working as the foreigners!"

I simply don't accept that your children and mine, given an equal chance, cannot compete against foreigners! UK graduates are discriminated against in their country by companies who only wish to exploit the country and its people. That ministers don't recognise this, or if they do, ignore it, demonstrates their incompetence and inability to represent UK interests when spending our taxes and is a major, overlooked, disgrace!

Marcher Baron

Why aren't we giving priority to employing natives? Every London bus driver whose bus I used last week was foreign (judging by their accents rather than appearance) and so was the chap on the information desk at the Tate. Are you telling me that out of however many million unemployed there is NOBODY native born who could have taken those jobs?

Holly ......

If it is true that our own graduates are not as intelligent or hard working as foreigners,you too should have worked out why.The coalition have...
A Labour enforced education...brilliant at answering multiple choice questions.
That's it!
It also irks me that Labour believe that
'poor' people are stupid.They are not!
Poor does not equal stupid.
Bad teaching and poor education policies equals stupid.That is what Labour have done,
that is why OUR graduates are where they are today.
Not money,millions have been 'invested' in education by Labour.NOT class,even the better off are in the same boat.It is what Labour policies did to their education that has put them where they are today.
That is the message Cable should be shouting,not fobbing us off with defeatist rubbish.
Labour's mess is going to take a lot more than leaving our graduates to rot,and simply
importing workers.
When the penny finally drops how Labour left the country,they will hopefully die a slow painful death for their betrayal.
Lack of Money is not this country's only problem.
Cuting back on spending is not the only
problem this country faces.
Educating an adult workforce to be employable after uni,while at the same time trying to fixing the rot in our schools,is the biggest challenge.If not met,we will never fix all the other problems.
Labour and the unions are NOT willing to help put this right,they don't even see what's coming so are surplus to requirement.

Archie

Another whopping clanger from the formerly "Saint" Vinny! How he's squandered the endless goodwill that was undoubtedly his just a couple of years ago. For goodness sake let's get our own layabouts, er, I mean economically inactive, working first, THEN let's see how much we need immigrants. I'd be willing to bet that we currently have far more of them than we need or can support. What then?

TGF UKIP

Vince's message to Ed - solve the Balls problem, agree to make me Shadow Chancellor and I'll join the Labour Party in the middle of the Tory Conference.

That'll end the BBC strike double quick.

Victor Southern

Cable has 20/20 hindsight and no foresight. If he wants to quit then let him do it and we can put a poltical ally in the job. He can then join the opposition benches, where he started in his political ideals.

Right now he is inside our tent and pissing on the furnishings.

Dimoto

Of course he's right.
And of course he should be bringing this up in cabinet, not in the press.
It's pathetic to see the backwoodsmen on here mouthing Brown's "British jobs for British workers" claptrap.

Rantonukorg

I have said Cable wants transferring to Northern Ireland where he can do no harm. Either that or sack him from the from bench, we have had enough of immigrants coming here to live on the backs of us and take our jobs.

chris read

Vince Cable needs to explain his comments fully because he is talking utter twaddle.

Genuinely skilled workers are allowed to come to the UK through Tier 1 and Tiers 2/5. Genuine skills shortage areas are covered by the shortage occupation list. So what skilled persons are we supposedly not letting in? Sounds to me much like the regular claim made by Indian Restaurant's that we have a shortage of Balti and Tandoori chefs in the UK - just so they can hire the extended family member from the subcontinent to cook curry's the British way!

Tier 1 Highly Skilled - misnomer if ever there was one - anybody with a bachelor degree or above to be allowed to work in a supermarket.

Besides all the cap does is control the numbers over the year; it limits the numbers per month, it doesn't stop anybody from coming to the UK if they want to.

AJ

What a farce India is!

All these MPs like Keith Vaz and Vince Cable who pretend that India is some kind of country with skilled labor should be permanently removed from the Parliament and fined. They lie to the entire country and deliberately work and plot to ruin the British economy.

India is NOT a nation with high skills. They can't even make buildings for the common games habitable for humans... What does that tell you?
The new labor skills some Indians have in specific sectors, are provided as vocational education (usually on the job) and targeted specific to solve job skills shortage, provided by large foreign companies - who then whine in the media they can't find enough skills here - yet they have the time and resources to train third world cheap labor over there to bring them here!