Miliband starts with a bang

Percy

The child benefit problem won't go away because for all Dave's babbling about fairness it quite clearly isn't fair.

TrevorsDen

Yawn.

Where would rEd get the money from?

And taxing double earners would not help the single earner.
rEd's concern for the rich is touching. Is this the biggest issue facing Britain today?

strapworld

Come off it. Milliband is trying to play the quiet reasonable man. I think Cameron got the better when taken as a whole. However why Cameron does not say 'hard choices have got to be made- something the last government chickened out of completely' and leave it at that.

It is obvious, though, that the 'I ask the questions you are supposed to answer them' observation has come back to bite Cameron!

I just wish he would give that skinner waste of space a kicking. I notice the Speaker never mentions him! Friend of the wife I suppose!

Bloody Bill Brock

Yes, we can all work out that Jack & Jill earning 40k a piece, will be be better off than Janet & John when John earns 55k and Janet does not work. But Cameron's main point remains, do HRT payers need child benefit? Is its payment to people who earn in excess of £45,000, what it was intended for? Should a constituent of David Miliband, earning 15k, be making a contribution to Miliband's child allowance? The 85% of tax payers who don't pay HRT, will agree with Cameron.

Bloody Bill Brock

@percy
Leaving the nation in the financial shite every time Labour are in office is not fair either my friend.

R2-D2

The Tories must understand that their "argument that the rest of the country shouldn’t contribute to the cost of benefits for the richest 15 percent" is logically flawed, and therefore it won't resonate. Every higher rate taxpayer pays more than average tax even after the child benefit.

lescam

"Ed Miliband has once again demonstrated that he is an opponent you underestimate at your peril"

I have thought this all along. In spite of all the silly nicknaming (Milipede, Miligeek etc) this man is no fool and is an "enemy" to be reckoned with.

These constant re-naming exercises (I am sick to death of seeing the word "Liebour") is childish.

Mark Cannon

Miliband's presentation and tone were very poor. They may improve. His specific question was good, but only because Cameron did not have the answer (or, if he had it, decided not to give it). A well-scripted, but nervy start for the new boy. Whether he will get over his unfortunate demeanour remains to be seen.

Nick

Should a constituent of David Miliband, earning 15k, be making a contribution to Miliband's child allowance?

=============

Clearly not. And neither should anyone be forced to pay tax and get nothing in return.

That's the problem. The result of Red Ed's parties frauds are that even the 12K earner on min wage is going to be forced to pay lots of money for the mess, even though they don't deserve it.

The middle class are going to be forced to pay and get bugger all in return. At some poin they will wake up, smell the roses, and work out they are being screwed over.

The question that arises is who gets the blame?

My view is that its Labour, but I'm not sure the electorate is bright enough because they are denied the information about the costs. The BBC doesn't publish the figures and neither does the government.

So if the Tories are smart, the give everyone a bill with a pro rata share of the debt, every year. They also introduce a debt tax to pay for past liabilties.

That way Labour, where a large number of people are in denial over the deficit, let alone the debts, would be permanantly on the back foot.

Now, the debt tax, why not call it a labour tax?

AuldCurmudgeon

I thought Cameron's refusal to answer direct questions and then bluster and blither with cardboard cut-out political cliches was eminently memorable of everything Brown got wrong.

He's starting to become a very expensive politician with this child benefit nonsense.

Bloody Bill Brock

@R2 D2
Do you seriously think that someone earning £25,000 or £30,000 pa is going to give a flying feck about someone earning £90,000 pa losing their child allowance. What "resonates"

ollie

As usual, whenever PMQs is microscopically analysed, exaggeration on both sides follows. I thought Adenoid did a perfectly decent job at his first PMQs - but come on, so has every other Leader of the Opposition (apart from maybe IDS).

It's fair to say Cameron was caught off guard today - however, he's too smart to allow that to happen again.

Red will find out soon enough that just opposing any cut will simply not wash with the public.

If looked at objectively, this was a score draw today.

Percy

@Bloody Bill Brock

I have no problem with benefit reform but it has to be properly worked out not just made up as they go along by Dave and Osbourne. It may have escaped your notice but it wouldn't take much of a swing for Labour to get back in at the next election, and that's not something I want personally 'my friend'.

and I'll go to bed at noon

I'm starting to wonder whether Miliband Minor's adenoidal delivery and nerdy demeanour might actually work in his favour. One reason John Major was far more popular than the party he led is that he came across as genuinely unprepossessing and modest; the quiet boy at school who doesn't have a lot of friends but is generally liked. When the time comes for an electoral head-to-head with Cameron, it wouldn't surprise me at all if voters instinctively side with him against Dave's PR-sculpted Etonian polish.

This is all cosmetic, of course. The electorate could very well take to Miliband on a personal level while not wanting him in government. That's how I've always felt about William Hague.

EyeSee

So let me get this right, a Labour MP didn't think much of the Tory conference? Is that a first? When Cameron asked Eddie for his suggestions he had to answer his own question as Miller Band just opened and shut his mouth; none at all. Cameron was right that Eddie is just a Union stooge. Funny you didn't notice any of this, James.

TrevorsDen

There are more cuts to come. Are labour just going to nit pick over every one? No matter how hard you try 'fairness' always breaks down at the margin. we are well and truly royally stuffed - will Labour say who they are going to stuff?

Only if labour had run surpluses instead of deficits in the good years could we afford to cut less.
Only if labour had not put 1 billion on benefits and not imported 1 billion of immigrant labour could we avoid the need to reform benefits.

Bluebell

Milliband has a problem in that he looks and sounds a bit weird.

Shyster

All the moaning about how this Child Benefit policy penalises families with stay at home Mums misses the fairly obvious financial advantage these families have over homes where both parents work. Which is that the family with the stay at home Mum has absolutely no childcare costs. Also you have to ask whether families who can afford to have the Mum at home full time (or Dad, this is 2010 after all) really need financial help.

The interesting point in all this is that it's the rightwing press, who you would expect to be cutting Cameron a little slack, who have really gone after him on this. They've reported this as an attack on the family and the middle classes which of course is something that they have traditionally criticised Labour for. It will be interesting to see how far they, and the right of his party, are willing to push this.

I actually get the feeling that the coalition were initially trying to be a bit clever here and set a trap for Labour to try and get them (and their shiny new leftwing leader) to criticise a policy of cutting benefits from the rich. Unfortunately for Dave most of the criticism has come from people he thought would be his allies, so Milliband and Labour have basically had to do nothing.

Where credibility is concerned, Milliband will need a hell of a lot more than the Child Benefit issue in the long run.

alastair harris

the problem Cameron has is that the press have been running with the anomoly so its got traction. Its a good policy but a simple mistake has given Red Ed his chance, and he took it well. Cameron has nowhere to go but to bluster it out. rEds challenge is to keep it running.

Shyster

Trevor - 'Where would rEd get the money from?'

I have a hunch that Edmund would propose a death tax on multi-millionaires - of course ignoring the fact that many would take their money abroad before they actually pegged it.

What on Earth would the leftwing welfare recipients do for income then?

The Oncoming Storm

Miliband was good but his argument is weak, quite simply why should a childless basic rate taxpayer have to contribute towards the cost of the piano lessons of the children of a HRT payer??

Paddy

Agree with Ollie.

Why does Miliband junior always have 'mad Hattie' by his side.

She looks so out of place with the 'new generation'.

alexsandr

So red-ed has one thing to get his teeth into.

What will he do next week? CHild Benefit again?

Bloody Bill Brock

'@PERCY
If the HRT payers who disapprove of this, vote Labour good luck to them. The other, lower paid people who have never voted Tory, may just start to do so. The Tories have increased their lead in the polls on Labour, since this matter became an issue.

Frank P

Bluebell

"Milliband has a problem in that he looks and sounds a bit weird."

A bit??! You praise him with faint damnation.

J H Holloway

It seems to that Osborne's policy is let the family financing madness that Labour has left behind to be properly aired.

What you won't hear from the 'progressives' and Guardian writers is how there's a huge, huge, tax break for the affluent two-job middle class households.

Because feminist policy demanded that adults are taxed as individuals, it means that a liberal man and wife on £45k each get a massive tax break compared to the evil banker on £90k who has a stay-at-home wife.

With a limited amount money in the welfare pot, it is the lower paid, single job families that are being whacked.

But won't read a word about the great upper-middle class tax rip off in the press because they all benefitting.

In Germany, single earner families with children get around 17k Euros in earnings tax-free.

Any chance Frazer can apply his number crunchers to this UK rip-off and calculate the cost to Treasury of the Toynbee tax-break?

London Calling

Surely Ed Miliband has the right to be concerned about fairness for the middle classes as David Cameron is about the poor and vulnerable (said with tongue in cheek)… Clearly something is a miss here with the sums and I don’t understand why David Cameron hasn’t made a statement to the effect that nothing is written in stone and that any errors noted will be reviewed and corrected. This in my mind is what it means to be in it together, not rushed through decisions only known to the inner circle when announced, which was evident by the reaction of the rest of the Coalition, otherwise this clumsy approach could well unravel further blips and will indeed give Ed Milliband cause to aim and fire.

1 – 1 = 0
2 – 0 = 2

And I didn’t have to study at Eton/Rochdale to work that out…aren’t I clever…:0

Ruby Duck

Thanks J H Holloway. You saved me the trouble.

Somewhere inside me is a small piece of faith that says the Tories will get round to transferable personal allowances in due course.

I think I last heard it mentioned around 1989.

R2-D2

Bloody Bill Brock: No, I don't, but I also don't think this kind of misguided socialist rhetoric attracts any voters to switch to the Tories, and it clearly did not wrong-foot Miliband as the Tories seemed to think.

Sarah AB

I've heard quite a few clips from this, though not seen it, and my reaction was precisely the same as in this post. I do vote Labour, but I was expecting DC to do better than EM and I was surprised by how confident and effective EM seemed.

Freddy

"Should a constituent of David Miliband, earning 15k, be making a contribution to Miliband's child allowance?"

Moronic question, as is clear if you change the terms to '... making a contribution to the NHS, used by Miliband?' or '...making a contribution to national defence, which protects Miliband's life and liberty?'

Child benefit was one of our civilised universal benefits, which helped social cohesion and put absolute value on the importance of child-nurturing.

stephen maybery

If you can't feed 'em, then don't breed 'em. Simples. And as for the child benefit, call me thick if you will, but to my mind it would make economic sense to do away with all these benefits and credits and raise the threshold at which tax becomes payble.

Bickers

Simplify the tax system:

1. Encourage people to work hard & create wealth by letting them keep more of their own money
2. Scrap most benefits and reduce tax rates
3. No tax for first £10k of earnings; no excuse then to not find a job
4. Government to get out of large chunks of our lives where their involvement just complicates matters

By now (after 13 years of Labour) we should have learned that the more of our money we let Government have the more they will waste it on spurious projects and unproductive empire building.