CoffeeHousers' Wall, 25 October - 31 October

Wilhelm

Kenny the Milky Bar Kid

My powers of deduction tell me that you're in the services ( you never tire of boasting about it on these forums ) but what branch are you in, the WRENS, the WAAFS or the WRAC ?

Dave B

Re: The Spectator Magazine
I'd like it if the articles trailed on the cover included the page number. They're not always easy to find in the contents page.

Dave B

One of the websites I visit is 'Blogging Heads'.

http://bloggingheads.tv/

It seems to be mostly left wing heads, but journalists from Reason and National Review do crop up.

I think Daniel Finkelstein tried something similar on The Times' website, I believe he called it a 'twofer'.

Perhaps The Spectator could participate, or try something similar?

(The tech seems to be quite low key. The conversation is by phone, the video is recorded by a webcam.)

Dave B

A recent post on Burning Our Money said:

"there is little further improvement even in so-called social policy objectives once spending increases beyond about 30%"

Is there any hard evidence to back up an optimum size of government? If so, perhaps Coffee House could do a piece on it.

Another BOM piece highlighted a speech by a NZ politico who pointed out how recent big government is

"Beginning in the 1850s and lasting until the 1920s or ’30s, the government’s share of GDP in most of the world’s industrialized economies was about six percent. From that period onwards—and particularly since the 1950s—we’ve seen a massive explosion in government share of GDP, in some places as much as 35-45 percent."

http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2004&month=04

http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2010/10/yes-we-can.html

I can't help feeling that Big Government has been a contributory factor in the relative decline of the UK.

Dave B

Sorry, left off the link. The Burning Our Money piece on the optimum size of government I quoted above is:

http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2010/10/sorry-we-have-no-money.html

Archibald

A suggestion.
I read with interest Fraser Nelson's blog following his appearance on AQ.
What immediately caught my eye was his suggestion to Christine Blower for the exchange of emails. I think this would be a very interesting way of blogging on a wide range of issues and it'd make a fascinating regular feature.
In this world of citizen journalists – as so cruelly (accurately?) described by Andrew Marr – I would much rather see a strong written debate coming from two prominent and opposing views, rather than one view that is either roundly applauded or subject to often weak and laughable scrutiny.
Us socially inadequate, pimpled, single, slightly seedy, bald, cauliflower-nosed young men sitting in their mother's basements and ranting could pitch in once the debate has concluded. I for one would be utterly gripped by such an approach.

Ellis Turrell

Interesting video of someone throwing shoes at former Australian Prime Minister John Howard during Q&A, an Australian programme on the ABC similar to Question Time. The incident followed a question on the Australian commitment to the war in Afghanistan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6XuAMC5zmM

Dave B

I often read/hear that productivity in the public sector is declining, while productivity in the private sector is increasing.

I'd always just put that down to overmanning, but a recent piece by Neil O'Brien suggested it's at least partly self-sabotage:

" I often feel a little sorry for public sector workers when they are told by politicians that they are less efficient that their private sector counterparts. One of the reasons this is so is that they are faced with all kind of burdensome regulations that don’t apply in the private sector. Politicians burden the public sector with expensive secondary objectives with little thought."

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/neilobrien1/100055286/culling-quangos-is-just-the-start-we-need-to-cut-back-the-other-nonsense-that-drives-up-costs-in-the-public-sector/

But an anecdote from a Policy Exchange event suggests that overmanning is big factor. Memory tells me that it was stated a new (government) department opened a new office with two floors. One to house the civil servants who would do the work, and the other to house the civil servants who would do nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yawzggkixWo

Perhaps Coffee House could identify which is the biggest problem? Regs, or dead wood.

An international comparison highlighted by Burning Our Money shows that other countries' governments have managed to get better productivity from their public sector workers.

http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2009/11/big-and-inefficent.html

Verity

Dave B writes- "Sorry I left off the link."

That's OK.

Verity

Weird feeling to The Wall today. Who are all these people?

Kennybhoy

Wee Wullie blathers.

“My powers of deduction tell me that....”

Given up on Nostradamus as a source of data then have you Wee Wullie?

“..you're in the services ( you never tire of boasting about it on these forums )..”

In order for an remark such as this to be to be cutting Wee Wullie, which I assume was your intention here, it has to be based on accurate observation. Precisely how many times in the past couple of years or so have I either alluded or referred to my profession in this forum?

“..but what branch are you in, the WRENS, the WAAFS or the WRAC”.

The Women's Auxiliary Air Force ceased to exist in 1949. It’s successor the Women's Royal Air Force, along with the Women’s Royal Naval Service and the Women’s Royal Army Corps integrated fully into the rest of the Armed Forces in the early 1990s.

Setting aside your truly rib tickling attempt to impugn my masculinity, what exactly are you saying here? That those women who have served in the British Armed Forces past and present gave or are giving an inferior service to their monarch and country than their male comrades?

Rhoda Klapp

Verity, have no fear, I am sure normal service in the way of juvenile name-calling and gratiutous insults will return as soon as possible once the regulars are back.

Rhoda Klapp

Sorry, be resumed, not return. For those who recognise the reference.

dave, surrey

Dave B @ 1:59 Regs or dead wood, or try outdated work practices. Many examples of this from my wife who works in the local secondary school in an administrative capacity after many years working in the private sector. Only small scale stuff but the cumulative effect is demoralizing and frustrating.

ie the headmaster hiding behind his PA and being unavailable for trivial tasks such a signing papers without an appointment. Then not being available when the appointment comes around.

Verity @2:45, sorry, thought this was coffee house wall, not Verity's wall.

Kennybhoy

Dave B,

The "Law of Diminishing Returns" applies across a whole range of human activities old chap...

alexsandr

major car scraping this morning in the cold and dark.
Can we blame labour for this?
No? Pity!

alexsandr

Can we have the Hitachi express train (IEP)properly investigated by someone who understands such things.
It is a very expensive train, and many in the industry say it would be cheaper and just as effective to keep the existing trains and stick a Bombardier TRAXX loco on one end at a considerable saving.
For those who need a proper understanding may I suggest they read roger ford in back numbers of Modern Railways.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible WAM BANG %* B*gg*r off! u rotten swine, fooya, y r u sow 'orrible? Moderator she 'it me boo hoo!

David Ossitt

Dave B

“I often read/hear that productivity in the public sector is declining, while productivity in the private sector is increasing.”

Dave, in the private sector all businesses be they big or small have to make a profit if they don’t make a profit they soon go out of business, to this end management ensure that all expenditure is very carefully monitored, keeping costs down is the name of the game.

In many areas of the public sector this is so obviously not the case.

Dave B

@Dave, Surrey
Just come across another strange Civil Service reg, on politicalbetting.com

"I am fillin gin a civil service application form and it is asking a ton of questions about my parents’ qualifications."

"So that they can ensure that a diverse range of people work for the Civil Service. Educational background, level of attainment of parents is used as an indicator of how deserving you are.
Just hope you don’t have to get a Developed Vetting, if you think the form you are filling in now is a pain in the arse, you ain’t seen nothing yet."

http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/10/25/bbc-apologises-for-the-edm-results-cock-up/#comment-1764595

Frank Sutton

Alexsandr: Can we blame labour for this?
No? Pity!
You're just not trying hard enough!

Archibald

Thanks for publishing my suggestion. I now wish to withdraw it.
As a newcomer to this site, it's taken me a couple of days to come to terms with the moronic actuality of your online audience, which I'm sure is very different from your usual readership. It seems, if anything, Andrew Marr was being generous.
I've always read the Spectator as one of a number of news sources and appreciated the range of views it allows, but it seems from the comments here your website caters to an entirely witless crowd, in every sense of the word.
The real shame is, I was about to suggest you call it your weekly 'Blog Slog'. It rhymes and everything. What might have been...

AndyPandy

Please can you limit the moving sidebar ads. The latest ones for Scottish spirits constantly refresh my screen and make the site painful and less than enjoyable to follow

Kennybhoy

Dave B writes.

"I often read/hear that productivity in the public sector is declining, while productivity in the private sector is increasing."

"There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can spend somebody else’s money on myself. And if I spend somebody else’s money on myself, then I’m sure going to have a good lunch! Finally, I can spend somebody else’s money on somebody else. And if I spend somebody else’s money on somebody else, I’m not concerned about how much it is, and I’m not concerned about what I get. And that’s government. And that’s close to 40% of our national income."

Milton Friedman (Interviewed 2004)

Kennybhoy

dave, surrey wrote.

“Verity @2:45, sorry, thought this was coffee house wall, not Verity's wall.”

Alas, it would seem that her presumption to ownership of The Wall is in fact entirely justified. I have been informed by the moderator that, consequent to complaints made on her behalf, I will no longer be allowed to effectively respond to her posts or even refer to her. Consequently I cannot in honour continue to post at all.

I just wanted to say thank you to all of the posters who have engaged with me in these pages over the past couple of years. It has been a very great pleasure.

God bless!

Kenny

Edward McLaughlin

Archibald

Is there nothing we can offer to make you stay? It's just that, even from such a meagre sprinkling of your erudite gift, the whole atmosphere here seemed to have been lifted from its customary banality. eg 'BlogSlog'. Need one offer further evidence?

To be visited by such, only to have it cruelly snatched away like this, is nothing short of tragedy. I hope those moronic actuals are proud of what they have done here.

Exits stage left, sobbing into monogrammed kerchief, taking bites of hotdog

Pimp my Whippet

This universal pension. Have I got this right? By age 66 (or more) I will have worked and paid NI for 50 years and I am to get £140 per week. Alongside me there will be people who by that age could have worked and paid contributions for say 30 years, or 20, even 10.

Is it seriously proposed that those people get the same weekly pension?

I don't just not like the figures. I don't like the tinny populist sound emanating from this.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Pimp my Whippet
October 25th, 2010 10:53pm
===========
Hush, it's getting sinister. And we all thought this was a Tory/Lib Dem coalition.

streborjm

AWK

Sounds rather. Verity sounds more than capable of looking after herself.

Perhaps as a relative newcomer I'm missing some sort of double/triple bluff here.

Bit of a mystery.

Oh well, bedtime.

Frank Sutton

Pimp M.Whippet 10.53pm: Is it seriously proposed that those people get the same weekly pension?
It's called Fairness! - Doncha just luv it!

Wilhelm

Hey Kenny, this is your lucky day. Im going to answer your dopey question.

'' Precisely, how many times in the last decade have I mentioned that Im in the T.A. ? ''

Lots.

maddy1

@Ellis Turrell
October 25th, 2010 1:47pm
Yep being anti war, and for the planet allows you do violent things without fear and impunity.

Wilhelm

Archie 5.24pm

'' The moronic actuality of the online audience.''

Archie me old son

Are you seeking some sort of spiritual Shangri-La enlightenment from this forum ? The meaning of life, God, the universe, the Holy Grail, the discovery of the lost city of Atlantis ?

Well you wont find it here, kid. Once Kenny is on a thread it rapidly descends into a chimps tea party.

Raffles

Ok so the UK GDP figure has just come out and is twice as good as expected at + 0.8% Will the BBC, let alone Red Ed stop trying to talk us into a double dip recession now? I guess they will now argue that no cuts are needed. I despair at the impartiality of economic thought by the BBC. Lets watch how they spin this one.

Peter From Maidstone

Archie, if you want a serious debate between two views then I recommend the magazine Standpoint which produces interesting discussions such as you describe in every edition.

phil

Archibald
October 25th, 2010 5:24pm-You have just been unlucky in the choice of place you wish to contribute to. This wall appears to be the private property of a number of right wing racists and some religious nutters who object to normal sane people having anything to say.Sadly I suppose we resort to mocking them for the stupid opinions they offer which is all too often.Personally I have tried many times to open constructive dialogue but the cabal have a tactic of studiously ignoring my comments, possibly too complicated for them ?The cry of troll(the least offensive one " is up within minutes and so the merry-go-round is off and running again ,You will have heard of the Mexican wave of course ,here it is a different one ,it is an expulsion of hot air to rival Vesuvius ,and arrives from our dominatrix whose name I am not allowed to mention , for fear of upsetting her gentle and caring soul :)
--------------------------
Try the other columnists blog,s ,most posters there are quite normal even though we do not always agree ,but we disagree with humour and sense ,without resorting to foul language and hate .Do not give up ,just change to a sane thread ,which you will not find on this wall -You will have noted that Kennyboy and Thuclidides are regular "victims" only because they do not send messages of hatred ,as for me, I just laugh,repair to the normal world ,tell my friends the latest nutters message ,and we all enjoy the fun .
--------------------
You seem to be a decent guy Archibald ,this is not a place for you ,but do not despair ,the vast majority of people are not like our nutters .

David Ossitt

Archibald.

“What might have been.”

It was ever thus.

Wilhelm

Kenny plagliarises Milton Friedman

There are four ways in which to spend money. You can spend money on yourself. Then you can spend money on somebody else. Then I can spend somebody else's money on myself. Then I can spend somebody else's money on somebody else.

That sounds like a Danny Kaye routine

''The pellet with the poison is in the vessel with the pestle. The chalice from the palace has the brew that is true. No, the pellet with the poison is in the flagon with the dragon. The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true.''

Rhoda Klapp

Well, if we are all nutters, so far out there as to be beyond hope or sensible social intercourse, it should not be difficult to find somewhere else to go. If you knows of a better 'ole, go to it.

Don't hang around here whinging, it will do you no good.

And Phil, more chance of an infinite number of monkeys stating a clear point than finding one in your ramblings. Get a grip.

Patricia Shaw

With all the news about unrestrained Settlement building in the Occupied Territories, has anyone heared any member of the government say anything? Or even complain?

Patricia Shaw

Speaking of which, the Minister with responsibility for the Middle East, is Alistair Burt, founder member of Conservative Friends of Israel! Not heard much from him in support of the recent peace talks....

phil

Rhoda Klapp
October 26th, 2010 11:46am -Rhoda ,I did not include everyone here ,some make sensible comments ,but not many ,and that is for the good reason that they have been driven away by the rubbish that is the trade mark of this wall -I trust you do not include yourself with the nutters .Archibald has said it all and he should be taken notice of .that will happen when pigs fly .

phil

Patricia Shaw
October 26th, 2010 2:18pm-We havnt heard anything from you either ,and would you prefer Alistair was a friend of nasrullah ?or the animals that misrepresent the Palestinians -silly question phil ,of course you would

In2minds

@phil - Up against the wall lad?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Archibold: I am writing this posting because although you appear to be new on the CH wall, you have come and immediately decided that according to your standards, we are not very nice. I just want to say that I cannot understand why somebody who finds so many of us vile, continues to contribute to the'garbage' or pehaps grafiti appearing herein. Archibald, I would no more dream of blogging on "The Guardian" than I would want to associate socially with their average readership. I can understand that it is silly to preach to the converted, but at the same time, why enter a forum where nearly everybody has completely different ideas, ethos and standards as yourself? Also, the fact that others have different opinions to yourself, does not make them nasty people. Yours seems a very subjective view. This CH Wall is a fun place, where we all feel free to discuss a wide variety of subjects. Unfortunately, some dissatisfied souls like to become abusive in a personal manner ill-suited to this medium. If of course, you gain from being at odds with the majority, and this fulfills a psychological need within you, either to be abused or to abuse others, then you will obviously take umbrage when I earnestly suggest that you find a forum where you will really feel at home. No need to respond to this posting as I will not be entering into discussions with you.

Patricia Shaw

Moi? What's moi got to do with it? I'm talking British Government and FCO. All Quiet. Settlements? No! Really? Where?

As for Burt the Indecisive, is he a Friend of Israel or a British Cabinet Minister? And why does the FCO have nothing in his biog about his lobbying for Israel? Thank god he s not a friend of the Aionist Cosa Vostra!

David Ossitt

That is it for me; the coalition has now blown it.

Yesterday my wife and I were delighted to hear that the old age pension would soon be a set amount, payable to all at pensionable age, the figure mentioned was £140 per week.

The means tested extra allowances that are complex and complicated would be done away with.

This appeared to be a sensible much needed change and at first glance looked to be fair.

But we are now told it will only be for new pensioners, existing pensioners will not benefit.

This is so wrong for a number of reasons; first the huge bureaucracy that is now needed to administer the means tested benefits payable to those who can’t live on the state pension (those who wouldn’t or couldn’t provide for their own retirement) will still exist and it is estimated will be needed for at least a further thirty years, and each year will have less work to do.

The second reason is that it is so unfair a single person who achieves retirement age one week before this comes into force will receive at today’s figures £97.65p per week and a couple £156.15p, and yet someone retiring one week later after it comes into force will receive £140 per week and a couple £280.

If the person or couple who retire prior to the changes have a bit of capital or a pension from another source they will be unable to claim any extras.

I truly believe, that this, is on David Cameron’s part is a very very big mistake, he will be antagonising the one group of people who invariably vote and who in the main have political leanings that are much to the right of centre.

David Ossitt

In2minds

Hi, it is wise not to give it sustenance.

Patricia Shaw

It' OK, Archibold - I'll respond for you;

Anna Wotaname Kay - Your argument against Archibold also pertains to you.

Your own views on Israel are highly offensive to a majority of people, and your simplistic condemnation of the BBC and Guardian for its objective reporting on Israel is equally vexing, but even you are entirely free to relieve yourself in this Pro Israeli Place.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Patricia Shaw
October 26th, 2010 5:01pm
I don't have opinions to please the majority of people. Also, the majority of people I associate with would never be the people you associate with. I admire, love and value the Land of Israel and its people. Your views are of absolutely no concern to me, but I wish you find the serenity and happiness of soul you so sorely lack. A stupid person is so much more dangerous than a bad one, and an unhappy, stupid person is positively lethal.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Patricia Shaw:
Postscript: You mangled my nom de plum. Likewise, shall I mangle your name and remove the 'S' from the surname? I think not, since I don 't believe there would be any punters!

Stuart Seacole Smith

Patricia Shaw: so you think the Guardian and BBC reporting on Israel is objective. Doesn't even pass the laugh test I'm afraid.

And if this govt isn't uselessly harping on about Israel nu-lab stylee, then so much the better. Maybe they're focussing on problems closer to home. Time someone did.

Burt was an officer at CFI, which he relinquished on entering govt. But his sensible views on the middle east, and those of others give at least some hope of redressing the sad anti-Israel bias we've all got used to of late, though I won't be holding my breath on that.

phil

David Ossitt
October 26th, 2010 4:51pm --keep chirping charley, your reputation for childish stupidity grows with every word you send ,stick to woodwork ,light bulbs ,halal meat and car rides but PLEASE leave the economics to those that understand it .

phil

Anne Wotana Kaye 1
October 26th, 2010 5:33pm We do not agree on many things but on the subject of the sad patricia we are 100 percent in accord -the woman does not have opinions ,only an all consuming hatred which in the end will devour her.

phil

In2minds
October 26th, 2010 3:47pm-no thanks ,I PREFER GIRLS .

Verity

An effective solution to trolls is to starve them.

phil

In2minds
October 26th, 2010 3:47pm-Well at least it was witty:) -----congrats ,could I suggest you try charley the chimp,you could meet him coming out of any supermarket in a fluster, and you would recognise him with his majenta tutu and carrying a pristine leg of non New Zealand lamb in one hand and an economy light bulb in the other.

David Ossitt

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

“A stupid person is so much more dangerous than a bad one, and an unhappy, stupid person is positively lethal.”

Hello Anne as is usual you quickly get to the heart of the matter, wise words indeed.

A pensioner

Pimp my Whippet - I don't like the universal pension idea, either. Largely because I've contributed all my working life and I won't get it because I'm a pensioner now. It will only go to new pensioners. Nothing fair about that!

David Ossitt

"and an unhappy, stupid person"

Unfortunately we are still plagued with one of these.

Verity

David O - starve the troll.

Laura

Please all go and watch today's Daily Politics (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vn4cz/The_Daily_Politics_26_10_2010/) for a good laugh - the new Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury is hilariously bad. Labour's usual arguments hold even less sway than usual...

Nicholas

Patricia Shaw El-Zatmah of Palestinian Mothers:-

"Your own views on Israel are highly offensive to a majority of people, and your simplistic condemnation of the BBC and Guardian for its objective reporting on Israel is equally vexing, but even you are entirely free to relieve yourself in this Pro Israeli Place."

Evidence for "majority" please?

Your simplistic condemnation of Israel is equally vexing and you are hardly an impartial observer. You have taken a side. You are entitled to your opinion but at least try to be honest about where you are coming from.

Patricia Shaw

Lovin' it - Pure Gristle!

To Ana - a dictionary.

To Stuart - His role model Alistair Burt's voting record.

Anyone deriding Labour, the BBC and Guardian while complimenting Burt for his 'sensible views' on the Middle East is in urgnt need of a health check.

Voted against removing hereditary peers from the House of Lords.

Voted very strongly against more EU integration.

Voted strongly against equal gay rights.

Voted moderately for laws to stop climate change.

Voted very strongly for the Iraq war.

Voted a mixture of for and against a transparent Parliament.

daniel maris

Dave B -

Don't know if you noticed, but between 1850 and 1940 the UK was a nation of widespread fatal disease, grinding poverty, bad teeth, rampant syphilis, damp housing, stunted growth, civil strife and mass unionisation.

Is there a connection with that being the period wehn government expenditure was set at such a low figure?

More of a connection than the UK's relative decline being associated with a rise in government expenditure.

Osred

RE:Patricia Shaw @12:16pm

'With all the news about unrestrained Settlement building in the Occupied Territories, has anyone heared any member of the government say anything? Or even complain?'

I take it the Occupied Territories you are talking about are Iran's Hezbollah held ones in Southern Lebanon?

phil

Verity
October 26th, 2010 6:49pm you are getting desperate now ,there is a gathering crowd that find you obnoxious,and once again you tell the lie that you do not read what I write .You cabal is diminishing so if you have to rely on charley to boost your ego ,things must be getting tough .happy days

phil

David Ossitt
October 26th, 2010 7:32pm-aye son, its you

Verity

Why has nothing been posted here - includinga post I wrote several days ago - about David Cameron's plan to sell off our national forests?

It's been in all the papers, but nary a mention on the Speccers. Wonder why that is ... Not a squeak ...

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Osred
October 26th, 2010 10:30pm

Report this comment

RE:Patricia Shaw @12:16pm

'With all the news about unrestrained Settlement building in the Occupied Territories, has anyone heared any member of the government say anything? Or even complain?'

I take it the Occupied Territories you are talking about are Iran's Hezbollah held ones in Southern Lebanon?
==============================
Osred: Good posting.
It seems one cannot excuse this as a spelling or typing error. "has anyone heared any member" "heared" is this how she speaks proper H'english?

Derek

Patricia Shaw

What is the basis for implication in your post that there is something illegal in the building of homes in the disputed territories? If you are not to be accused of a lack of objectivity, you should be able to say.

Richard of Moscow

Daniel Maris, this:
"between 1850 and 1940 the UK was a nation of widespread fatal disease, grinding poverty, bad teeth, rampant syphilis, damp housing, stunted growth, civil strife and mass unionisation. Is there a connection with that being the period when government expenditure was set at such a low figure?
More of a connection than the UK's relative decline being associated with a rise in government expenditure.” – is employing the same old logical fallacy, namely that the co-existence of A and B implies that B is caused by A.
Advances in Medicine and other sciences, plus the Russian Revolution putting the fear of God into the capitalist world, were the major causes of improvements in social and working conditions in that era.
Whereas Blair and Brown nearly bankrupting the country by creating (and buying the votes of) an army of educationally-subnormal pen-pushers on the public payroll did absolutely nothing to improve health care, housing, or poverty – indeed, for many of the ‘downtrodden workers’ things became noticeably worse.

Richard of Moscow

Patricia Shaw, why do you think the Guardian's reporting of Israel is objective? I'll assume you are no cretin, and are therefore aware that the Guardian tells obvious and infantile lies about other parts of the world, so why would they become strangely objective about the Levant?

Herbert Thornton

After reading what appears to be Kennybhoy's swan song (October 25th, 2010 8:22pm) I am more curious than ever about his nom de plume. Despite his claim to be Scottish, is he really Irish as in the song that begins - "Oh Danny boy......? Some people might be reminded of the Mr. and Mrs. Bhoolabhoy in the Paul Scott novel Staying On and conclude that he is very likely Indian. However, his fondness for Latin quotations and for precise hair-splitting makes me lean more towards thinking of him as both Irish and educated by Jesuits. I'm afraid I was tempted at times to reply to one or other of his Latin quotations with one in popular use when I was at school - Thatis apiss potan dat inone......

Wilhelm

Money grabbing, multi millionaire, human rights lawyer Cheri Bliar is selling her husbands Tonys signature on Ebay for £10. ( that much you ask ? )

Have these people got no shame ?

Stuart Seacole Smith

Patricia Shaw: couldn't give a monkey's about Burt's voting record on all and sundry. I'd take his views on Israel over your Grauniad-BBC propaganda anytime. You've got no point.

Richard of Moscow

Herbert Thornton
October 27th, 2010 2:21am

After reading what appears to be Kennybhoy's swan song (October 25th, 2010 8:22pm) I am more curious than ever about his nom de plume
-------------------------------------
The Bhoys is a nickname for Glasgow Celtic FC and their supporters.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Wilhelm
October 27th, 2010 6:21am

Report this comment

Money grabbing, multi millionaire, human rights lawyer Cheri Bliar is selling her husbands Tonys signature on Ebay for £10. ( that much you ask ? )

Have these people got no shame ?
=================================
Hello Wilhelm,
No!!! But every little bit counts........

Verity

Why is no one commenting on Cameron's plan to sell off our common property ... our national forests? They've belonged to all of us since time immemorial.

This would be akin to a stupid American president (Hi, Barack!) announcing plans to sell off the Grand Canyon to developers. Why has no one commented on this?

The forests are part of our common heritage.

Perhaps Cameron has enough personal heritage in his family not to have to worry too much about what belongs to all of us.

phil

Verity
October 27th, 2010 3:10pm--OUR FORESTS !!! that is what I call chutspah from a person that does not inhabit or contribute to OUR country other than by constant whinging and outting us down .what a cheek .!! Even a troll would be ashamed .It surely is time you took a sabbatical and had a personality overhaul .

Ronnie

Isn't the Forestry Commission a QUANGO?

In2minds

National Forests -

A teeny-weeny comment on this on Coffee House - see

When public safety is threatened, strikes should be banned - Ed Holmes 9:05am.

So here we are telling South American countries how naughty they are when they so much as cut a twig in the rain forests. Then we sell off forests, for what purpose?

Then again we send election monitors to far-flung places to make sure they do things right. But look what has happened in Tower Hamlets!

Andy Carpark

phil! Welcome back. Speak more so that we may learn of your wisdom.

1. Is Western Civilization

(a) rising

(b) falling?

2. How do you account for crop circles? Are they caused by

(a) infrasound

(b) heavy localised rainfall

(c) pranksters

(d) wallabies?

phil

Andy Carpark
October 27th, 2010 4:10pm -ACCORDING TO THE INHABITANTS OF THIS WALL FALLING ANDY -and part two of your question -nutters caused when they wander round the fields thinking of nasty things to write here ;)

Edward McLaughlin

Andy Carpark

My money's on the wallabies.

phil

Andy Carpark
October 27th, 2010 4:10pm -ACCORDING TO THE INHABITANTS OF THIS WALL FALLING ANDY -and part two of your question -nutters caused when they wander round the fields thinking of nasty things to write here ;)

phil

IS there any truth in the story that an entire police force in the Mexican town of Las Ramones quit because one of our posters made them cry with her never ending complaints ?.Rumour has it her mouth and tongue are sore but she will carry on as best she can .It appears they are making a joint bid for our forests where they hope to hide .

Frank Sutton

When did the word 'behaviour' acquire a plural form - ie, 'behaviours'?
Half a dozen instances on radio 4 just now forced me out of the bath to change stations.
I'm sure 'behaviours' with an 's' is fairly new.
How do these things creep in? Do-gooding and social meddling types seem to be the usual culprits at subtly undermining our language.
How many behaviours have they got?

Andy Carpark

Sale and subsequent destruction of the ('Royal') Forest of Dean would be no great loss. It is the most backward place on God's earth, full of dogs on chains, cars on breeze blocks, and toothless yokels with tea cosies pulled over their eyes.

' 'Im be moy auntie. Aaaand moy sister! Aaaand moy niece!'

phil - An expert analysis. The instrumentality of the nutter has been sorely neglected in traditional accounts both of crop circles and the decline of the West.

streborjm

Andy CP

or (e) Kennybhoy?

Funny, one goes down, another pops up.

Sock it to him, Verity.

phil

streborjm
October 27th, 2010 5:01pm ---Who moi?-surely not :)

Herbert Thornton

Richard of Moscow -
I’ve never been a soccer fan so I’d no idea that he’d nicked their name. Blagodaryou vas!

streborjm

Phil

:;)

EC

phil,

Strafing the cop shop in Los Ramones is not Verity's style. I think you'll find that she prefers to use her bear hands. Also, watch out for the teeth. aka El Chupucabras has got a bite that Vlad could only dream of!

Wilhelm

Why is the BBC and the Guardian not reporting the shocking persecution and genocide against white farmers in Zimbabwe and South Africa ?

3000 white farmers killed, thats one a day for 10 years. If it was whites persecuting blacks, you can bet your bottom dollar, the BBC would be reporting it.

In a strange twist of fate, Marike de Klerk the ex wife of FW de Klerk who gave South Africa away to the marxist ANC regime was murdered , strangled by a security guard.

phil

EC
October 27th, 2010 7:01pm-I suspect in a previous life she was the model for Shakespear,s shrew ,but I do not see a happy ending in this case .Cameron ,Clegg and Miliband so far have got off lightly ,when she really winds herself up those cops will appear to have had a walk in the park.The rumours also said the drug dealers had thrown down their weapons and begged her for the chance to polish her laptop.we await with baited breath ,I am the only one who is safe as she does not read what I write :)

Nicholas

phil, just for the record my own right winginess stems more from my growing and intense dislike of the left (relatively recent) than from rightist ideology. I think I have moved further right in response to the way the left behaves. I don't like to think of myself as racist but if I'm honest I probably am - and probably more so now than prior to 1997. Again I think this is more in response to the left and their double standards than anything else. They push instead of persuade and some people move in the opposite direction when pushed.

So, right-wing racist? Perhaps, but more because I'm not a left-wing believer in the benefits of the multi-culti. My dissent, to the left, makes me an extremist, so when accused of that by the "usual suspects" I think "Well, if I am, you and your chums made me one". By creating such a very small and narrow church built largely on lies the left drive many people out of it.

But is racism itself just a dislike of certain races, a dislike of an enforced multi-culti model or is it only acting on that dislike? New Labour fondly believed they could legislate against dislike (which they wrap up in the pejorative catch-all "hatred" nowadays aka "phobia"). They legislated against things being said but of course could not control thoughts (although they wanted to). The end result was the same as in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. People might think things but no-one dared say them except in the most guarded circumstances. Is this what we have become - a nation seeking to imitate two of the most monstrous societies ever to darken the Earth?

Peter From Maidstone

A quick search suggests that behaviours as more or less always had a plural form. Certainly lots of early 19th century books use the form.

daniel maris

Richard of Moscow -

Well as Dave B did not come back on that, you'll do.

I was pointing out a logical fallacy, not stating one - try reading people's posts. That's why it was framed as a question.

My view however is that central government expenditure and action DID help solve a lot of those health and poverty issues. I don't think people really want to return to former times when Britain was allegedly so great. But of course we want to be in a better place and so we need to stop welfare acting like a cancer on initiative and self-reliance. There are ways to do that, but we need to stop being so reluctant to get a grip on the problem.

Edward McLaughlin

In discussion today on R4, Hilary Benn attacked the plans to cut Housing Benefit. One injustice he pointed out, was that it was unfair to place a time limit for the unemployed to claim full benefit, as jobs are so difficult to get: 'there are 5 applicants for each vacancy'.

Perhaps if his time in government had not bequeathed the country with such a 'rich diversity of new jobseekers', this ratio might have been made less daunting?

Daedalus

Have you seen the new Heinz tomato soup advert? You know the one, with everyone blowing on their soup to cool it down. The unutterable bastards, can you imagine heating your soup up so much that you then have to blow on it to cool it down.
Visualize the amount of CO2 green house gases produced in over heating your soup by this amount, it’s not just the one can of soup but all the ones that are sold, with the advert encouraging you to overheat them.
According to the Heinz website they produce 1,600 cans a MINUTE or about 800,000,000 a year, if you take out some downtime and holidays. And having been around the Kits Green factory once, I can believe that volume. That is 320,000,000 (approx) litres per year and assuming 1 litre is 1kg that many Kg’s. Let’s assume the soup is overheated by 20C for each can and also assume it’s mostly water with a specific heat capacity of 4.1 kJ/KgC then the total energy is 26,240,000,000kJ now 1 joule per second equals 1 watt so we have dividing by 3600 equals 7.3MWHours of wasted power. Half is heated by gas to let’s assume again 65% of the heat from the gas goes into the soup, half is heated by electric hobs so again assume that 85% is used to heat the soup, no flames licking around the pan. But for the electricity which has been produced by coal, gas or oil and a bit of nuclear there is a CO2 equivalent of 544Kg/mWh, for the gas the figure is 184Kg per mWh. Figures from here http://www.carbontrust.co.uk/cut-carbon-reduce-costs/calculate/carbon-footprinting/pages/conversion-factors.aspx#‘kWh’ into ‘kg of carbon dioxide’
So overheating your soup causes 3,400,000 million kg’s of CO2 to be released into the atmosphere.
As I said at the start the total unutterable bastards!!! HEINZ!

Daedalus

Verity

No one seems to care that the arrogant Cameron is going to take away our ownership of forests that have belonged to all of us forever. Maybe he could donate his own and his family's lands at the same time?

SAM ARMSTRONG

I agree Verity - selling forests is evil. I am having trouble getting my head around it though. It is such a weird thing to do.

Sell the NHS instead. Flog it!

Austin Barry

Mohammed (or variations thereof) is now the most popular boys name in England.

As Mark Steyn keeps reminding us, demography is destiny and so I will be submerging Mrs Barry in a burqua (her legs are cricket stumpy, anyway) and we have a joint appointment for our genital mutilation: cheerio clitoris, farewell foreskin, hello our brave new Islamic world.

Please join ourselves and Lauren Booth for a 'Let's go Islam festival' in Tower Hamlets this Saturday.

You say Halal, England says Goodbye.....

phil

Nicholas
October 27th, 2010 8:38pm I think perhaps you do yourself an injustice by calling yourself right wing ,that implies for me the worst of the BNP (not Herbert),and those that write here denigrating all immigrants ,complain about all things Muslim ,,regardless of the loyalty and behaviour of individuals .I believe I am right of centre and I am certainly not racist ,nor am I a champion of anyone who is disloyal and uninspired to work ,but I do believe in compassion for those that are sick ,perhaps less gifted etc etc .I suspect you are the same and think like me that those that have come here to scrounge do not deserve either our help or sympathy -that to me is not right wing it ,is common sense .
------------------
You will no doubt have noticed that I do object to what I see here as right wing "nutters",those for instance that would condemn innocent aids victims to die Complain incessantly at all things British ,despise every politician and yet have no alternative !!
.My only weapon is mockery ,for reason is not a viable alternative with these people .btw I had you as an owl in my earlier humour about the Ark ,it was a compliment as it was to Daniel.We do not have to agree on everything but some of us here do attempt to write from the heart ,right or wrong .
-----------------------
What I do find very sad is the fact that many here are obviously intelligent and well educated ,but they seem to have slipped into a hypnotic state caused by a hysterical few and now instead of writing useful comments and possible solutions to our problems merely descend into abusive sarcasm -I fully expect that the "usual suspects " will be back with the cry of "troll" or even worse ,my little "friend" charley arrives like a chorus girl to immediately support any "nutter" who calls me names ,what can I say ?--one is amused :)

Verity

Sam Armstrong - good point. Who on earth would dream up selling our forests? It is just so bizarre ... This bears further looking into. Who put the thought into his head? It is every bit as crazy as would be selling off the Grand Canyon. It is so totally untethered.

I think Cameron is the most dangerous PM (soi-disant, as he didn't win an election) we've ever had. He makes Tony Blair look shy and unassuming.

Verity

Sam Armstrong - Who'd buy the NHS?

Austin Barry - Funny in a depressing kind of way ...

streborjm

Daedalus:

Brilliant. And that's before what goes into making and distributing it in the first place, and washing up afterwards.

Nicolas:

Couldn't agree more. And this 'phobic' everything winds me up too. As individuals we have the right to be phobic about anything. Does not make us bad people. Arachnophobes wouldn't necessarily kill spiders, they just don't want them crawling over them. Homophobes don't have to hate those of different sexuality, but they probably don't want it continually shoved in their faces. Logically there are presumably' heterophobes', but that would be all right, I suppose. I'm quite happy to be Islamophobic in that I have no time for a Dark Ages totalitarian credulous belief system - although that description would equally apply to Christianity in history.
But the handful of Muslims I know are perfectly nice people.

Live and let live. Just kill the socialists.

Verity

strebjorm - "Homophobes don't have to hate those of different sexuality ...".

No, as I have explained, at last count 325 times, the word the prefix "homo" just means "the same". Homogenous, for example, means the same people, as in pre the Labour immigration tsunami, Britain was a homogenous society. Homogenesis means the same origin. Homonym means a word that agrees with another in sound.

Geddit? Homo, no matter what Peter Tatchell thinks, doesn't mean gay. It just means "the same".

Clear Memories

A truly astonishing story here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1323455/Weve-suspected-official-Ozzy-Osbourne-IS-Neanderthal.html

quietly slipped into the MSM hidden behind a joke.

I have always had a nagging belief that there has to be something different between Africans and the rest of the planet to explain their corrupt, chaotic and murderous ways down through history. I know they are liable to diseases Caucasians and Orientals do not suffer from. I am also aware certain drugs have been developed that (perhaps fortunately for Political Correctness) are beneficial only to Africans. This story seems to confirm that view. Are the-powers-that-be preparing us for something monumental or was this slipped out by accident?

Something has to explain the apparent savage nature of people from that Continent, even when they move elsewhere. After all, why do we need an Operation Trident? And it canâ™t be the way they have been treated over the years â“ after all, Caucasians freed them from Arab slavery in a relatively short period of time, although there are those (black and white) who still perpetuate the myth itâ™s all â˜Whiteys faultâ™ and play the guilt card at every opportunity, when the truth is they were mistreated by Islam for a damn site longer than by Christians (who were actually trying to do good, albeit in a misguided way)

So, seems we might need to have a rethink if it turns out we are different at a genetic level and weâ™re not the same under the skin as the perceived wisdom has been for a long time.

And donâ™t bother slinging the racist bile in my direction â“ I donâ™t care one way or the other but Iâ™d like to know the truth. Instead of blindly throwing the usual racist crap, why not carefully read the link and think about what its content really means. As a general rule, hybridisation usually results in a more placid species. Who was first? Which is the more evolved race?

Nicholas October 27th, 2010 8:38pm â“ this might go someway to addressing your thoughts, or not?

Isnâ™t it fun when you get into it? Perhaps this post might kick in some reasonable debate at this late stage in the week, rather than the juvenile name-calling that seems to predominate on the Wall this week.

Verity

The outstanding James Delingpole eviscerates "climate change" and its acolytes. Most entertaining, as always:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100060540/happy-climate-fools-day/

Richard of Moscow

Daniel Maris, I got that you were illustrating a logical fallacy with another, I just thought you were in broad (rather than partial) agreement with the second, I apologise.
I won't dispute some of the government spending donkey's years ago has done some good, but I still think the recent 13 years suggests that less government spending is safer.
It can be increased to help the genuinely needy, whereas the last 13 years of borrowing billions to subsidise the middle classes in the public sector means that not only were the important things (health, education etc) neglected, but now there's bugger all money left to do anything about it.

Herbert Thornton, Pozhaluysta!

Wilhelm

Clear Memories asks

'' Ive always wondered why Africa is corrupt, chaotic and murderous way down through history ?"

Maybe this will explain it. The subject of African low IQ tests is very, very sensitive and emotive. Many academics are too scared to discuss the matter for fear of losing their jobs and being shunned.

Sadly we in the west are in a time of The Multicultural Marxist Inquisition, ( is the ' racist ' just not another name for the heretic of the old Spanish Inquisition ? ) Those who challenge this orthodoxy is immediately denounced by the political correct gestapo, reason to close down the debate. There is 1 or 2 brave souls though.

Professor Richard Lynn's 2006 book '' Race Differences in Intelligence , an Evolutionary Analysis is the largest review of the global cognitive ability data, surveying 620 published studies from around the world with a total of 813.778 tested individuals.

Lynn's analysis lists the average IQs
Chinese and Japanese 105
Europeans 99
Inuit 91
South east Asians 87
Pacific islanders 85
Middle Easterners 84
East and West Africans 67
Aborigines 62
Bushmen and pygmies 54

Dr James Watson American Nobel prize winner who discovered DNA, says the same thing.

I wonder if this'll get published ?

Ronnie

He didn't 'nick the name' Herbert Thornton, he's a Celtic supporter.

God! You are thick.

Wilhelm

Ps. Switzerland and Japan, the two richest countries in the world with no natural resources, but people's with high IQs.

Africa 13 times the size of Europe, rich in naturals resources, a basketcase, low IQs.

Herbert Thornton

Wilhelm,
I believe that Professor Lynn's most basic premise is that evolution doesn’t stand still. Assuming the premise is correct - and common sense surely says that it must be - then we have to expect that some of us are more evolved , and others of us are less, evolved. Political Correctness may not like it, but it seems to me that the Politically Correct dogma that everybody in the world has evolved to have virtually identical inclinations, abilities and characteristics is refuted by all our experiences in our daily lives.

As to the relative levels of intelligence of different races that studies are said to have discovered I have two observations. First that I have lived for several years in Hong Kong and am not surprised by the high rating given to the Chinese. Second, however I have also lived somewhat longer in East Africa - and I am rather surprised at the low rating given to people in that part of Africa. I say that because they are largely Bantu and they generally seem to me to merit a much higher rating than the low one that is quoted - considerably higher indeed than that given to people from the Middle East.

Clear Memories

Good stuff coming out - this is what the 'net and blogs are about, debating things you can't even discuss down the pub and having the references to back up your position.

Each to his own view, but I think Nobel prize winners research trump followers of Nu Labor, whose aim with mass immigration was 'to rub the rights noses in it'

Most of the recent rash of stabbings involve Blacks. Today, the Police are seeking witnesses to the mugging of an Essex boy, hospitalised for £5 and a mobile 'phone. They're desparate for help, the boy obviously saw who attacked him, as did his mate who escaped, there was 'a gang of them' but sadly, no ethnic make-up to help Joe Public. Plod, if you can't tell the truth, you deserve no help, only derision.

Discuss.

Ronnie

Both Switzerland and Japan have wonderful primary and secondary education systems while pretty much all African countries do not. Nor do they have adequate health care systems. Thus, for example, many young people fail international examinations because they can't read the examination papers properly, because they cannot obtain the spectacles that would help them to do so.

Going on about race being the sole arbiter of educational performance is the most ignorant and infantile nonesense. Nothing new from Wilhelm who's own IQ must be through the floor.

If IQ was race based there wouldn't be the endless arguement about which schools are best for English kids!

Clear Memories

Ronnie dear boy, read the original post - thisd is about DNA basically, nothing to do with IQ. Perhaps you might reread your own comment about spectacles.

Rhoda Klapp

"Going on about race being the sole arbiter of educational performance is the most ignorant and infantile nonesense"

Who claimed that? Straw man. The race/IQ thing is much supported by testing. Why would there not be race-based tendencies? Doesn't mean the next Chinese you meet is smarter than the next black person, but it does affect the probability. Most of the bell curves overlap.

Frank Sutton

A quick search suggests that behaviours as more or less always had a plural form. Certainly lots of early 19th century books use the form.
I bow to your erudition, Peter from Maidstone, but I'm sure I never heard it 'til recently.
And anyway, it still sounds irritating!

Nicholas

Individually I like the Chinese, collectively I don't - always. Individually I like Africans, but not as much as the Chinese - collectively I don't always. My reaction to and feelings for a crowd of Chinese people in a department store on a Sunday might be very different to the way I feel having tea with a few that I know as friends. They often feel the same way, I know. Individually I like some Caucasians (or Europeans) - collectively I don't always. Is this some deeply rooted tribal instinct? The same that gives rise to office politics, cliques and the instinctive dislike of people you don't know because of the "tribe" they appear to belong to (q.v. this Wall)? In other words is it an inherent condition and characteristic of man's survival, impossible to "correct"? Why do some people support a football team in a town they don't even live in? They can become highly excited and agitated by its fortunes - or misfortunes - even though in reality their own lives are completely unaffected by them. What motivates it? The military tenet that soldiers in action fight and take risks for their "mates" rather than their country or cause suggests this might be so. In adversity their instinct for "tribal" identity microcosms to the smallest, recognisable and identifiable unit - or collective - around them, even though they may belong to larger ones.

Without combat or small unit belonging in adversity, ordinary people who feel afraid of or threatened by a larger group, whether that is justified or not, may gravitate to a "tribe". I think the multi-culti crowd have ignored this inherent characteristic or optimistically believed that they could change it through targeted anti-hate legislation. They can't. Even Patricia Shaw El-Zatmah, for example, who probably believes in the Left's multi-culti hug-in, can't conceal her hatred for Israel as a collective. Is the Left's hatred of the right wing itself an irrational phobia?

In their anti-hate legislation the Left identified "victim" groups dear to their ideological causes. But in hindsight this also seems discriminatory and not entirely rational because the line between victims and villains is not always clear (q.v. Rwanda). I think they subconsciously recognise the implausibility and injustice of this partisan and flawed approach, which is why they get so excited about it and try to suppress debate or dissent by using stereotypical and sweeping pejoratives. Those challenging it must be racists rather than rational people who can recognise the flaws, hypocrisy, double standards and absence of reason implicit within the sledgehammer dwarfing the nut.

One of the most honest characterisations I have seen recently was Harry Enfield & Co spoofing the "I am less racist and more trendy than you" credentials being boasted in the Dragons Den.

David Ossitt

Clear Memories

It would be nice if your typing was as clear as your memories, what is wrong with your (t) key?

David Ossitt

Nicholas.

“In other words is it an inherent condition and characteristic of man's survival, impossible to "correct"?”

I agree and I enjoyed reading your post.

In particular I agree with your hypothesis that I have inserted above.

streborjm

Verity: 12.26 am

Absolutely, I totally agree. Probably comes from the Great Unthinking's confusion between (Lat.) homo - human, i.e. man, and (Gk.) homos - same.

Incidentally, whilst railing from Pedants Corner ( s, 's, or s'?), I have learnt something, well sort of. Your use of 'homogenous' had me inwardly shouting 'Verity, not you, of all people!). I have always maintained that there is no such word, and that it should be homogeneous. However, I see that The Shorter (shock, horror) accepts it ("prob. after homogenize"). Nevertheless, Wikipedia quotes the Oxford Guide to English Usage as it being a frequent error for homogeneous, so I'm happy to have my predudice supported, if not exactly confirmed. I still have an instinct that there should be an implicit subtle difference in meaning, but perhaps I should get a life.

But in similar vein, another bugbear (then I'll shut up) I wonder whether you share my discomfort at the almost universal (mis-?) use these days of 'self-deprecate' rather than 'self-depreciate'? To deprecate means to clearly criticise or disapprove (lit.'to pray against'), whilst depreciate is much milder and can legitimately be used ironically to mean gently self mocking. It perhaps slips off the tongue more easily, but that's no excuse.

Glad I've got that off my chest.

Sorry about that, fellow Coffeehousers, normal service may now be resumed.

Clear Memories

Sorry David Ossit, but the fault lies with Bill Gates & Co - I usually compose a longer post in Word and then Cut & Paste.

But you do neatly prove the point I raise about the excessive purile name-calling on what should be a debating site. Intellect should be able to see beyond grammar and spelling to the point that the individual is trying to make. Some are just not as effective as others at the niceties, but that shouldn't be used to denigrate their positions, which are all equally valid.

You, on the other hand, merely sneer.

Wilhelm

Nicholas

There's a part of the brain that works out face recognition, the frontal lobe. Caucasians have a slight difficulty working out African facial features and vice versa, same goes for the Chinese.

This releases a chemical in the brain of fear because we cant work out friend or foe, its primeval, goes back thousands of years. Thats why we feel more comfortable and safe around people that look like us. Its tribal.

streborjm

Agreed, but it does disproportionally distract, and therefore, even if unfairly, detract, from the argument.

And it's puerile. :o)

Clear Memories

streborjm - touche (but I don't know how to put the accent over the 'e')

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

This discussion about race and IQs is an interesting one, and as usual I have found the postings by Nicholas both interesting and full of insight.
I don't know if my opinion is of any value here, since I disregard statistics, since they remind me of those 'medical' statistical articles which appear in the Daily Mail and other tabloids: "Take Asprin and Reduce Colon Cancer", "The Number of Tea Drinkers who have Lower Blood Pressure because they drink Green Tea." Firstly, I must mention I am a Right winger politically, having all the freedom to make my own judgements and state my opinions without being directed as to what I may or may not say. But then, and here many may not approve, I am an Elitist. I firmly believe that some people are more mentally and intellectually superior to others. This in the same way as some people are brilliant athletes, whilst others cannot catch a beach ball. I have studied at university with students from all racial backgrounds, and found I had a very mixed circle of social acquaintances and friends. European, Middle Eastern, Asian, Chinese, African (both white and black) and all the shades between. One thing all these people shared was an extremely high IQ, above the norm even for MENSA, and we all found ourselves bonding despite religious and cultural backgrounds. Looking back over many decades, I recall the true correspondence of ideas and ethos which we were able to communicate to each other, and basically I still believe that each person is an individual, and if real intelligence is present, then 'tribal' conventions will neither hamper nor assist in the full development of that personality. I have always said that a stupid person is worse than a bad person, and the most lethal of all is a stupid bad person. That is why I am so cynical concerning politicians and world leaders, most unfortunately appear avaricious, cunning rather than wise, and plain stupid.

streborjm

Clear Memories

;) No, neither do I. And before anyone else notices - cringe, shot in foot, hoist, petard - I meant of course disproportionately! :o(

Clear Memories

To all those linking the original posting to IQ, you are missing the point. The story I reference relates to the presence of Neanderthal DNA in post-African homo-sapians outside Africa and its absence in African homo-sapians (read it, its easier)

It has nothing to do with IQ or race as such but possibly undermines the long-held (but oft-disputed) premise that we are all the same under the skin.

Of course every individual is different; of course environment impacts upon intelligence etc etc. But, something has to explain the state of Africa, the level of corruption that is endemic in their culture as a generality and the proven propensity towards violence and criminality amongst those of African descent removed from that Continent, either recently (see Sudanese settlement in Australia) or as a result of slavery (see UK Home Office crime statistics)

EC

Fancy that! Michael Gove's education department awards £500,000 to his 25 year old ex SpAd's lobby group for impartial advice.

http://gu.com/p/2ky2b/tf

No tender required apparently.
New broom, our money, same old sleaze.

Andy Carpark

I don't deny a correlation between IQ score and academic achievment but question the wisdom of aggregating scores on diverse competencies ranging from 3D geometric intuition to verbal analogies. I doubt whether there are many who are equally strong across the board. One only needs to be exceptional at one, or maybe two, to have a successful and fulfilling career.

As for the Kalahari bushmen, now subject to an iniquitous hunting ban, their intelligence used to reside in the ability to track animals, which was in turn based on the uncanny ability to put themselves in the animal's [?] hooves and decide the direction in which it had gone when the trail went cold. I respect that. As Nietzsche said, the world was conquered through the understanding of dogs. Not, note, through the understanding of neo-classical endogenous growth theory or other gimcrack explanatory systems, which are the rocks on which the credulous founder, however high their IQs.

Finally, Anne's comment reminds of the quadration of General von Moltke. 'The clever and conscientious are very sound but may not keep their heads in a crisis. The clever and lazy are the best, as they can be relied upon to do just that. The lazy and stupid - they have their uses, such as digging latrines. As for the stupid and conscientious, they should merely be shot out of hand.' (Paraphrase)

charles hercock

AWK1

A stupid person is worse than a bad person

Pesonified in l'ancien regime of the Prince of Darkness and Gordon.However I agree with your next sentence to which you might have added that Red Ed is that stupid bad person

Ronnie

I agree with everything Anne has said on this, and I mean everything. Skewed tests and loss of spectacles notwithstanding.

Frank P

To those with 90 minutes to spare I recommend a documentary made in 2003 about the Weatherman Underground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV7GSff4fIA&feature=player_embedded

Some of those involved in the attempt at violent revolution in the USA back in the 60s and 70s have adapted their modus operandi and now have their shill as the POTUS. Hence the dangerous developments in US politics and its repercussions around the globe.

It is therefore an extremely disturbing documentary. I can personally vouch for the fact that similar agents for Communism (some with links to the Weatherman movement) were active in the UK at the time and though somewhat less violent, were even more successful in their 'Long March through the Institutions'.

For those who were too young to have lived through those years, the complications of the current fusion of Islamic jihad into the Long March will be obvious and should give pause for thought. Obama is an evolutionary phenomenon of the Weatherman Revolution. Unless he is stopped in his tracks the Weatherman Underground will have succeeded, despite their apparent failure of the 60s and 70s.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Andy Carpark: Hello Andy
General von Moltke- the Elder or the Younger? Please clarify.
Charles Hercock: Hello to you too, Charles.
Naughty, Naughty! I refrained from naming names, but certainly the Millibands et al, and the bulging-eyed Balls.

Verity

Nicholas: "My reaction to and feelings for a crowd of Chinese people in a department store on a Sunday ...". Wow! Is that ever true! You can come away bruised, weak and tearful. And some of those little grannies (there's always a tiny grannie along) have spent a lifetime honing their elbow techniques in a crowd.

streborjm

AWK 1.38 pm

Excellent post, as usual. Slam dunk.

Nevertheless, do you not find it surprising (and heartening) that a fair amount of ordinary human 'common sense' is found
throughout the spectrums of both race and intellect?

I believe that this may be an evolutionary thing (hardly an original thought), a widely though unevenly spread component of a human altruistic predisposition: a preparedness to co-operate, to acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses of others, to accept what works, what will probably work from past experience, what may be worth trying to make work.

As I said, it is found throughout all walks of life, and helps to make life liveable, though its social effects are often overridden or distorted by local conditions of power, inequity, insecurity, opportunity, personal ambition etc.

As a basic human trait, however difficult to define and however unevenly spread, it may perhaps stand alongside intellectual and indeed physical variations in humanity, and as a kind of leavening component. It may compare in its spread, but certainly does not coincide. There are plenty of tunnel-visioned, bigoted intellectuals/ "intellectuals" who are a blight and often a danger to the world, similarly plenty of thickos/simple souls who are actually rather nice people and a benefit to society. And of course vice versa and everything in between.

I don't disagree with you at all, Anne: I'm probably as right-wing in my views as you. What really bugs me, and obviously most people here, is the sanctimony and hypocrisy of the left, particularly the last lot, in arrogating to themselves all rights to sentiments of decency, and indeed common sense.

Verity

Clear Memories - not so clear. You misspelled peurile.

Verity

EC - Michael Gove's a trougher with form. I don't read anything he has to say. He should not be in the Government.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

streborjm
October 28th, 2010 3:38pm
Very interesting post, Streborjm.
I'm not replying in depth as I want to read your posting again and 'digest' it. I certainly agree that society has a place for all who have 'ordinary common sense' and although I esteem high intelligence, and am unashamedly Elitist, I distain so-called 'intellectuals'. Maybe because they are usually self-righteous Lefties, completely lacking in grace or humour.

Verity

Clear Memories, it's not just corruption. Africans don't invent things. All the things that have advanced Africa, insofar as one can say Africa has advanced at all, have been invented in the West. So far as I know, and I'm sure we'll be swamped with emails signed Disgusted of Bulawayo, but the only thing ever invented by an African was the cotton gin and that was American black man Eli Whitney, which does something to raw cotton. But that was very clever and universally adopted by the plantations of yore.

Neil Turner

BBC Bias

I texted 5LiveDrive yesterday to ask (politely) if they would be covering the Climate Fool Day. This event, hosted at Westminister, aims to raise awareness of the Sceptics viewpoint

Needless to say, no mention was given either to my text or to the subject. Furthermore, a search on Google News ofn the subject brought up "Your search - bbc climate fools day - did not match any documents"

Andy Carpark

Anne - I am glad you asked me to check. Second time and properly:

'I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Most often two of these qualities come together. The officers who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Those who are stupid and lazy make up around 90% of every army in the world, and they can be used for routine work. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious is a menace and must be removed immediately!'

— General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord

David Ossitt

Clear Memories

“You, on the other hand, merely sneer.”

CM I am sorry that you should think that I was sneering at your post, I was not, neither was I calling you silly names, I genuinely could not understand why a longish post of yours that I had found interesting, had so many unusual symbols running through the script

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Andy Carpark
October 28th, 2010 4:24pm
=================
Thanks Andy.
What a brave man, his bravery extending to his family. Pity there were not more men such as he in Hitler's Germany. By the way, finished reading "Alone in Berlin" by Hans Fallada. Different social class, but strong spirit of defiance in the face of a terrible dictatorship.

Andy Carpark

Anne - I'm afraid I choked at page 391, when the author sort of gives a spoiler. One day soon, I hope to screw up the nerve to finish it, and am ashamed to have been so pusillanimous. Going off-line now. Good evening to you.

streborjm

AWK 3.58 pm:

Thanks. Re-reading my post, it perhaps seems a bit sermonising, but I appreciate your comments.

Verity 2.19 pm:

Just had a look at James Delingpole's article you cited. Excellent. Did you notice the comments were swamped by bussed-in trolls screaming abuse. No arguments, just abuse. Frightening.

Verity 3.42 pm:

Oh no !!!!! - see mine at 1.13. Never mind, we've all done it. :o)

Wonder if you picked up my Pedant's Rant at 12.26?

Best wishes.

streborjm

See the newly-Islamicised Sister (Cherie's) is on This Week tonight. Sounds like a bundle of fun (not).

Frank Sutton

Clear Memories - not so clear. You misspelled peurile.
So have you, Verity!

Herbert Thornton

Ronnie (October 28th, 2010 7:19am) -

"He didn't 'nick the name' Herbert Thornton, he's a Celtic supporter.

God! You are thick."

Ronnie, kennybhoy himself chose to use the name - i.e. he nicked it.

Edward McLaughlin

Motability cars. Why?

They need to be chopped. Thousands of them are not driven or used by the qualifying recipient, but are instead the family car of a relative.

In many cases, along with the disabled permit.

All of it subsidised by guess who?

Verity

Straybjorm - James Delingpole's a goer. Brilliant, and on our side.

Rhoda Klapp

I don't think Eli Whitney was black.

Michael Roberts

Edward McLaughlin

Quite agree. It must be cheaper to pay for an occasional taxi in probably the majority of cases. I know of a bloke, 40-odd, with nothing physically wrong with him (mental 'issues', which you would think would raise other 'issues')) who has a car provided. Gets up when he wants, does what he wants, last time I came across him he was on the phone booking a foreign holiday. I suspect he's not that unusual. (He's also obnoxious, which rubs it in).

David Ossitt

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

“I firmly believe that some people are more mentally and intellectually superior to others. This in the same way as some people are brilliant athletes, whilst others cannot catch a beach ball.”

I agree entirely, it is self evident that we humans are blessed with vastly different degrees of intelligence.

Your example of how some people are more athletic than others, reminds me of a difference that I have noticed in sport, for example, at the Olympics it is not unusual to see an all black line up at the start of a 100 meters sprint event, similarly an all white line up for a swimming event would be unremarkable.

David Ossitt

Rhoda Klapp

“I don't think Eli Whitney was black.”

He wasn’t.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

David Ossitt
October 28th, 2010 7:03pm
Hello David,

Yes, you are right. I know that certain countries, Ethiopia and Kenya for example, are superb runners. Swimmers, mainly from white races excel.

Verity

Rhoda K and David Ossitt, you are both right. I went to Google and there are loads of entries asking if he was black, so it's a common misperception. I would have taken a bet that he was black. And I would have lost.

OK, so, there don't seem to have been any black inventors, except for blow darts and things that are seldom used in the larger cities.

Verity

This Eli Whitney thing is strange - I went to school for a while in the US, and we were taught that Eli Whitny was black and he invented the cotton gin, and I've always believed it. Presumably the teacher had also been taught that he was black.

When I went to Google to check on Rhoda K's declaration, there are dozens of sites stating that he was not black, so it's a very, very common misperception in the US.

How strange.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

illtelligent.com/stereo/2006/09/14/eli-whitney-aint-black/ - Cached - Similar►
===============================
I was amused to find this link through Google. Seems quite a lot of people thought incorrectly that this man was black, or had black blood.

Thucydides

Hmm, not too many takers for the Wilhelm/Clear Memories racist line, it would seem. (Wilhelm’s strange relationship with the English language becomes clearer; he’s actually a pygmy.)

Anne Wot etc. “I firmly believe that some people are more mentally and intellectually superior to others.” Why do you seem to be worried that this is an unusual thing to think? Is there anybody with half a brain who really thinks any differently? What, if anything, one should do about it is a whole other question, of course.

(Puerile, Verity, puerile. Puerile, puerile, from the Latin “puer”. I shall be charitable and try to assume that your misspelling was a typo.)

Verity

AWK - Well, yes. They have longer legs, therefore a longer stride. That's why the Olympics is so stupid. (Well, one of the reasons.)

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Thucydides
October 28th, 2010 9:01pm

Report this comment

Anne Wot etc. “I firmly believe that some people are more mentally and intellectually superior to others.” Why do you seem to be worried that this is an unusual thing to think? Is there anybody with half a brain who really thinks any differently? What, if anything, one should do about it is a whole other question, of course.
=============================
I am not worried about some people being brighter than others. It would be rather awkward if there were only philosophers and no water carriers or wood bearers. I see no reason why the situation should be altered. It gives rise to horrible visions of A. Huxley's "Brave New World" or even "A Clockwork Orange". Education, certainly, but genetic or chemical interference, heaven forbid.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Verity
October 28th, 2010 9:32pm
Hello Verity,
Interesting that you find the conception of the Olympics stupid. I thought I was the only one. The planned event here in London is a sick joke. No extra jobs for the locals. Sorry, if they are 'lucky' they can work as cleaners, agency security workers, and other low paid jobs. Madam Jowells' joke on the poor British public.

Alexandrovich

Strange, this Whitney thing. Especially when you consider how many images are, and have been since he became famous, readily available.

David Ossitt

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

“Madam Jowells' joke on the poor British public.”

Anne I rarely disagree with any of the opinions that you post but to give Tessa Jowell the title of Madam is crediting the woman with skills and attributes that she so obviously does not and has never possessed.

I have been told that a good ‘Madam’ needs to be discreet and to keep a clean respectable house where a gentleman might be entertained and find comfort and solace.

Verity

AWK - The conception of the Olympics was probably great fun, and made sense, at the time they were introduced. It would only have been the best athletes in Greece and environs who competed ... people of similar build and similar endurance.

Once it was opened up as another lefty "global" brotherhood concept, the whole shebang lost its raison d'être. In many instances, the events are no longer an equal contest.

There are the also self-serving lifetime passengers on the event ... the Olympic Committee, spending the intervening years between the "games" travelling first class, staying in luxury hotels, being wined and dined and, I am sure, given very, very nice presents by all the stupid eager cities who feel that running the Olympics would be an "honour". Instead of a new way of plunging their citizens into a debt that will take years to pay off.

But after the events, the Olympics Committee is long gone, anyway, in search of new prey.

I find the whole shebang rather creepy.

Derek

Patricia Shaw

I notice that she did not stay for an answer when I challenged her a few days back to show on what basis housing starts in Judaea and Samaria could be considered illegal. She is another member of the ubiquitous Don't-confuse-me-with-the-facts brigade.

In2minds

@Edward McLaughlin -

Disability benefits and the disabled car users permit. My Mother is 96yrs old she has never had a driving licence but is entitled to one of these badges. I live about 4hrs drive each way from her home so when I visit, about once a month, all we do is sit and talk. However, another relative lives 20mins away visits more often does some shopping and keeps the badge in her car. "It's useful", she says. She's not disabled just overweight, but then I'm told this practice, using another persons badge, is not illegal.

Furthermore, at any supermarket car park many fit and able parents assume that having children entitles them to park in the disabled designated spaces. If you point this out to the super market management, as I have done, the chances are you get fobbed off with some silly story about manpower shortages and enforcement etc.

Finally apply for a badge, then say you have lost it, another comes by return post. My Mother is also entitled to taxi tokens but as she seldom goes out there is a drawer full of them, I suppose I could sell them! But seriously, what to do?

Verity

Is anyone else baffled by Hague's volte face, and how easily it seems to have gone down with the voting public? He is now a clear ally on the EUSSR with Cameron.

When did that happen?

Verity

Fun quiz (hat tip Conservative Cabbie)
http://www.okcupid.com/the-politics-test

Needless to say, I wouldn't be recommending it unless I had come out reeeeelly OK .....

Wilhelm

Ronnie rants

'' Going on about race as being the sole arbiter of educational performance is the most ignorant and infantile nonsense.''

You only think its ignorant and infantile nonsense because you disagree with the surveys findings.

Ive provided facts, evidence, data, proof. Are all those people in Professor's Richard Lynn's survey all 813.778 of them, liars then, Ronnie ?

Ronnie

'Ronnie, kennybhoy himself chose to use the name - i.e. he nicked it.'

OK Herbert, I give in. Understanding other cultures, including the west of Scotland or football, is obviously not one of your strengths.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

David Ossitt
October 29th, 2010 12:16am
=========================
Good morning David,
You are correct, and I stand corrected.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Alexandrovich
October 28th, 2010 11:42pm
==========================
It's a funny old world. Dinah Shore, a well known singer in my distant childhood, was plagued by false rumours that she had a black grandfather and that she gave birth to a black baby. Tragic that such racist attitudes continued for so long.

David Ossitt

In2minds.

“but then I'm told this practice, using another persons badge, is not illegal.”

Only if the holder of the badge is a passenger at the time, the badge is for the disabled person not for a particular vehicle, if your other relative uses it when your mother is not a passenger she is breaking the law.

David Ossitt

Verity.

I did the test my results were:-

You are a Social Conservative (33% permissive)

And an Economic Conservative (88% permissive)

You are best described as a: Strong Republican

Nicholas

No less than 12 police officers involved in the assault and arrest of a single, stabbed man in the Liverpool park. Three restrained the man, one punched him and the other 9 hovered around the scene, doing what exactly? Well, at least some of them were wearing caps and looked vaguely like police officers rather than mental asylum orderlies or security guards.

I have noted the same "style" of punching in various footage of British police assaults from different areas over recent years. Thug-like rapidly delivered jabbing blows targeting one spot with shortened arm movements, the victim usually being prone and held by one or two others, quite incapable of retaliating anyway. To any truly professional police officer in the world a disgraceful and disgusting spectacle worthy of nightclub bouncers which many of these "officers" resemble.

Is this a technique ACPO are sponsoring or is it one of the National Policing Improvement Agency's "improvements"? Has no-one bothered to teach these incompetent, overweight, shaven-headed goons about pressure points? Have the training officers never heard of Defendu? William Ewart Fairbairn and Eric Anthony Sykes must be spinning in their graves.

Hopefully the Chief Constable, who joined the force in 1975 and seems to have more experience in ACPO and telephone interception than walking the beat, will be asking questions about his officers training and techniques and not waiting for the usual "enquiry" to obfuscate the obvious. Tip for him: the RCMP may be able to assist or failing that there is always the library which has lots of stuff from when police actually knew their job.

Ronnie

Wilhelm.

Try not to shout.

You have quoted, I presume, an interpretation of the results of a scientific survey conducted by someone else, without any information on the perameters of the survey itself. I don't believe everything I read and I suggest you shouldn't either, even when it appears to reinforce your own jumble of bizzare opinions.

By your own admission you have never visited any country in Africa and yet you make absurd generalisations about the entire continent and its people. Your reference to facts and evidence, in the context of your brainless contributions here, is laughable.

You recently called me an Athiest, far from true, while continually exhibiting a range of unchristian behaviour that disgraces your beloved Roman Catholic Church and contradicts all of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I'm not calling anyone a liar, However, once again it's Friday and we've had another week of your stupid wittering. So, I am calling you, literally, an idiot.

Ronnie

Verity.

'He (Hague) is now a clear ally on the EUSSR with Cameron.'

It's called colective cabinet responsibility. It is a cornerstone of British government practice, as opposed to self absorbing anarchy.

If Hague doesn't like it he can resign, with honour.

Patricia Shaw

Derek asks on what basis settlements might be considered illegal in Judae and Symaria...

Well, obviously, on the basis that they're being built in somebody else's country on somebody else's land.

But more importantly, if God truly decided that the land should be 'yours', he has the ability to have given it to you already.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Patricia Shaw
October 29th, 2010 1:02pm

Report this comment

Derek asks on what basis settlements might be considered illegal in Judae and Symaria...

===========================
The standard of this person's spelling matches her knowledge of history, Bible and geography.

Norman Dee

Sorry I'm late, family visiting all week, have I missed anything ?

lescam

I did the test as well.

I'm 28& Social Conservative
and 76% Economic Conservative
and a strong Republican

which is odd because I support the Democrats, particularly Hilary Clinton, who I devoutly hope runs in 2010 against the idiotic Sarah Palin. Always think of myself as slightly right of centre, but only in the UK. US politics appear to be much more to the right than our (especially regarding abortion) so a slightly right of centre attitude here in the UK equates to a slightly left of centre attitude there.

Frank P

Jack Cashill deconstructs the unconstructed:

http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/42323/700076.html

Wonderful. Roll on November 2 - the dawn of the beginning of the end of O. Trouble is DCam has been advised by his advisors and its a contagious virus carried in infected shit.

Verity

Ronnie, given the toxicity with which you addressed Wilhelm, above, before moving on to me, I won't trouble to couch my response to your latest revelation of your mental state.

You respond to my concern that Hague appears to have become a turncoat to advance himself, "If Hague doesn't like it, he can resign, with honour."

Thanks for informing us that he "can resign"! And there was me sick with worry that he was in indentured servitude for life!

Verity

Frank P - Cameron has been accepting "advice" from Obama's advisors?

Why? Is Obarmy still an icon to the left? Has there ever been a greedier, or less astute, "leader" than Shameron?

Verity

David Ossitt - Good for you!! My results were similar.

Edward McLaughlin

Patricia Shaw

"Well, obviously, on the basis that they're being built in somebody else's country on somebody else's land.

But more importantly, if God truly decided that the land should be 'yours', he has the ability to have given it to you already."

The absence of the ironic quotation marks around 'somebody else's', whilst they are firmly affixed to 'yours', reveals so much about your bias

Peter From Maidstone

I came out with...

You are a

Social Conservative (33% permissive)

and an...

Economic Moderate (50% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Centrist

You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.

Not sure about the comments but I am socially conservative and economically liberal.

phil

This will upset some of you :)
------------------------ my test -- You are a

Social Conservative
(36% permissive)

and an...

Economic Liberal
(18% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Totalitarian

You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. HO hO hO

phil

And I think I know someone who broke the machine ,having come out as right of Attilla the Hun --and no doubt proud of it :)

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

I did the test:
I'm a Statist
Personal Liberty: 29%
Economic Liberty: 38%
A ruddy liberty!

Herbert Thornton

Wilhelm (October 28th, 2010 4:21am) drew attention to Professor Richard Lynn's 2006 book '' Race Differences in Intelligence - an Evolutionary Analysis”.

I had hoped that it would result in more discussion than has so far emerged. As a start, this account of Professor Lunn’s career is especially interesting -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn

Another interesting sounding book is one by the Danish psychologist Nicolai Sennels. It is titled “Among Criminal Muslims”. (He apparently did considerable work with the Danish prison service which brought him into contact with Muslims who had been put in prison.) He advances the theory (and here I am quoting from our local newspaper) that “massive inbreeding within the Muslim culture during the last 1,400 years may have done catastrophic damage to their gene pool.”

In light of those two assessments I suggest that we should also consider not just the evolution of people in the strictly biological sense, but also, alongside with it, the evolution of societies (ours in particular) in the cultural sense.

I mentioned in an earlier posting that one of Professor Lynn’s basic ideas was that evolution doesn’t stand still. Whatever works grows - what doesn’t work falters and may die out. Professor Lynn’s belief in the principle that evolution doesn’t stand certainly includes the fact that evolution can go backwards as well as what we think of as forwards.

This principle that evolution may be a matter of going forwards or going backwards applies not just to the biological evolution of individuals (and ultimately of races) - but also to the evolution of cultures. One example of a culture where evolution went backwards is that of the Roman Empire - it eventually evolved backwards and Europe moved into the Dark Ages.

Nicolai Sennels believes that the gene pool of Muslims has been catastrophically damaged. Winston Churchill said of Islam - no more retrograde force exists” - and from all appearances Islamists are indeed intent on clawing the entire world backwards into a new Dark Age in when primitive taboos, and barbaric and cruel customs and requirements will be imposed on all human beings. As well as those two problems, our own - or at least our western culture - has become enfeebled to the point where it opposes discussing - and indeed is incapable of even thinking about - whether there is a existential threat to our own civilisation.

All this is an even stronger combination of forces than those that made the Roman Empire fall. They threaten us with regression into barbarism even worse than what prevailed during the Dark Ages.

What needs to be done to steer both biological and cultural evolution onto a more desirable course?

daniel maris

The way Wilhelm carries on, you'd think there never was a time when the Germanic tribes lived in mud huts, had no written culture and nailed Roman POWs live to trees. What was their IQ score then?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Herbert Thornton:
What needs to be done to steer both biological and cultural evolution onto a more desirable course?
======================
Good evening Herbert,
I appreciated reading your posting.
In reply to your question, as shown above, I do have an answer. A vigorous housecleanung is in order. Things are now really desperate, and heroic measures are vital if civilisation as we know it in Britain is to survive. If we don't act now, in less than a decade, this will be a
FundaMental hellhole, where Bradford will be the norm, and London completely changed. Before there is bloodshed, although I doubt if the British citizens have any appetite or interest in fighting, all Moslems should be deported to original place of birth. Those born here must be returned to their ancestral homes, or swear an oath of loyalty to Britain and the Queen.

Edward McLaughlin

According to my test results:

I am the Kommandant of a Panzer Division in 1944 Normandy.

I'll tell you what you can do with your tests V.

Neil Turner

BBC Bias

Good to se that David Cameron is making the BBC the story...

I'd like to see more of this ie making the BBC's bias against Israel, AGW Sceptics, Christianity (etc etc) the story

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100061379/david-cameron-finds-bbc-cuts-delicious/

daifromwales

Nicholas
The man reacted with extreme violence, he was alomst certainly extremely drunk or drugged (he was only half dressed) and he was biting the officer's leg with his possibly diseased saliva going somewhere. No wonder the police officer punched him - the man was lucky not to have been clubbes with the officer's truncheon. Only four officers were restraining him - and a man who will not be restrained has to forcibly prevented from further action.

Verity

29 October and I see a photo of one Poppy-wearing David Cameron. A bit like people who put up their Christmas lights in November.

For sure, he knows better, but he thinks this will impress "the little people".

Ghastly, vacuous little poseur.

daifromwales

although the action of the police towards the end of the incident when they were clearlay deliberately beting the man appears to be clear evidence of assault 'with intent to cause harm (GBF - usually prison for the rest of us). I blame TV (as always) - when 'The Sweeny' came along and a new set of recruits to the UK police learned a completely new set of standards of behaviour - from which a lot of them have never recovered.

Verity

AWK - agreed.

Edward McLaughlin

If you want to see how westerners are regarded out there -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGsrbJmjrnA&NR=1

Just look at these two buffoons with their palms turned up, wondering how long all this will last and they can get back to the bar. How many thousands of pounds did they pay to be treated like this?

Herbert Thornton

Ronnie,

True, I have neither any understanding of football nor any interest in it.

As to the west of Scotland however, there was, before either Scotland or England existed, a kingdom known as Rheged, which is believed to have consisted, roughly speaking, of what is now northwest England and south-west Scotland.

Rheged’s southern boundary is thought to have been the river Ribble. I grew up on a farm in the part of Lancashire that is north of the Ribble.

I know that’s a flimsy basis on which to claim any understanding of Scottish culture, but I think it interesting that there are lingering signs - in the farming community there - of a cultural link to Scotland. For example, on farms south of the Ribble, bundles of wheat at harvest time are called “stooks” which is the word prevailing throughout England to the south. On the other hand farmers north of the Ribble call them “hattocks” which is what farmers on Scotland call them. Robert Burns too wrote of “hattocks of corn”.

yank

E. Mclaughlin,

Turns out I'm a Brit tank commander at Normandy 1944, and my guys are equipped with "tommy cookers". %$##%#% yank bastards... they never knew how to make a tank!

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Poppies in October? Rather like bluebells in January, not yet in season. Seriously, I haven't seen any poppy sellers out on busy streets yet, so where did the BBC bods and Cameron et al purchase them? Do they 'recycle' them from year to year? Whatever they do, I hope they contribute to one of the most worthwhile charities around.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Verity: I agree with what you wrote about DC and his poppy. But that 'test' I agree with Edward McCaughlan, horrible!!!

Ronnie

I know what you mean Herbert, all along the border area you can still hear and see a a shared culture.

Very few Bhoys though, they are mostly to be found in the east end of Glasgow :-).

I have to admit a soft spot for Lancashire, the people and their sense of humour.

Nicholas

daifromwales - in your first response you are missing my point. I have no problem with police restraining the man, or even applying physical force to him, but if they had used the techniques I referred to they would not have had to punch him repeatedly and crudely - which actually was of no use because he continued resisting anyway. Also there is the question of the 9 officers standing around watching the incident, presumably absent from their watch and ward duties in other parts of their bailiwick.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Edward McLaughlin
October 29th, 2010 10:36pm
=======================
Edward, I'm sorry for spelling your name incorrectly last night.

Derek

Patricia Shaw

You write that the housing starts in Judaea and Samaria can be considered illegal "...on the basis that they're being built in somebody else's country on somebody else's land".

This is a mere assertion on your part.

Your failure to provide support for your assertion is probably caused by the absence of any legal ground for calling those starts illegal.

If you have not looked at the law, you have prejudged the matter.

If you have looked at the law, then...

Derek

Verity

Good point on Cameron and his poppy;PR politics for a PR culture.

When I was at school, Poppy Day was on 11th November and poppies worn on that day only.

Nicholas

Oh, and if you think those "old" techniques won't work against modern drug-crazed British untermenschen I should mention that they were developed in pre-war Shanghai, against considerably nastier opposition, as anyone who has tackled an out-of-his-skull angry Chinese with a meat chopper, triangular file or beef knife, or the tooled-up soldiers of the Green Gang, will testify to. They didn't wear anti-stab vests then either.

In2minds

@Herbert Thornton - October 29th, 2010 8:04pm -
"I had hoped that it would result in more discussion than has so far emerged".

No discussion from me but I do agree with the basic reason for your post.

In2minds

@Nicholas - Criticism of the police, do keep going please. As opposed to "move along please"! The sad thing is in the UK any criticism of authority is assumed to to be anti by nature. We don't seem to do constructive criticism the way other nations do.

Frank Sutton

Herbert Thornton : "there was, before either Scotland or England existed, a kingdom known as Rheged..."
You mention its particular language - is this the place where they had (and possibly still have) words for "one, two three" etc which sound a bit like hickory dickory dock? (I'm basing this on a vague memory of some radio documentary I heard years ago, so I could be rambling far from reality!).

Herbert Thornton

Frank,

I don't recall ever hearing the linguistic oddities you mention. Are they perhaps Celtic?

Some words are used in a different meaning than elsewhere though - e.g. "starvation" is used to mean "miserably cold weather" and "corporation" is used to mean "Large pot belly". Others may be confined to Lancashire - I don't, for example, recall hearing "gormless" elsewhere - it describes boys and young men whose behaviour is stupid, scatterbrained and empty-headed.

Peter From Maidstone

He means 'Yan Tan Tethera' and it is derived in a corrupted form from the counting system of the older British language.

Alexandrovich

You're wasted on 'ere Peter!

Frank Sutton

Herbert Thornton -
Thanks for the linguistic gems you have mentioned!
It lends a new (and perhaps intended) nuance to the phrase "The Mayor and Corporation" .
Gormless, with just the meaning you describe, is surely widespread - part of everyday speech down here in the leafy south east, where there is a fair share of opportunities for its use.
More examples from the old kingdom of Rheged would be welcome.

streborjm

Anyone 't comes fra rairnd 'ere, doest t'a remember on't old Bey Bey C proagramme Luck North, Stuart Hall use't 'ave summat called 'Learn thisel'Lanky?

F'r inst'nce:

" 'Ti'nt int'in" - It is not in the tin.
" 'Ast'a gett'n thi coit on?" - Are you wearing your coat?
"Put t'wood i' t'oil" - Please close the door.

daniel maris

AWK -

One of the most worthwhile charities around? Where does all the poppy money go? If you try and find out from their accounts you soon come to dead ends. There's v. little detail. Just because £X goes on housing, doesn't mean it's housing for people in need - it could be housing for
the Legion officials.

That Help for Heroes charity might be a better bet.

An even better bet might be to get our armed forces to actually look after wounded servicemen (not many women in the front line as far as one can tell despite their desire to gain entry to the armed forces).

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

This posting is not for those with delicate stomachs nor those who are of a sensitive nature, Browsing through the rubbishy Sunday press today, I noted the following: The Observer | Stephen Fry shocks feminists by claiming women don't really like sex.
Well, all I can say is that if Fry has ever actually been in an intimate moment with a female, I am not surprised that the poor woman was put off sex for life. Maybe we should set up a blind date for him with Harriet Hardman, they certainly deserve each other.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

daniel maris
October 31st, 2010 1:29pm
=====================
Dear Daniel,
I really am upset at what you have written. I have no reason to doubt you because I have alway found your postings reasonable and honest. I will check things out myself and try and find out the true picture. I no longer give to Cancer Appeals (except for MacMillan Nurses) because great amounts go to top management, fancy offices for admin and other wasteful practices. Oxfam - well never patronised that leftie, biased organisation. I know it may be foolish, but I try to give homeless, down on their luck people I regularly see, sitting patiently with their dogs beside them. So many of them speak in educated tones, and I feel sure they were driven to this awful condition by abuse as children or when younger, or cursed drugs.

egh

Frank Sutton @9:35 am and Streborjm @12:13 pm: had to stop by for this discussion!Streborjm... your examples aren't purely Lancastrian, of course. Those very samples of dialect sit just as firmly in W. Yorks, where the man at a chip shop once asked me: "What part o't glawb s'ta coom from?" (Actually, I'm a native). That bit of Yorkshire is arguably part of another ancient Celtic kingdom: Elmet.

The Pre-Roman/Pre-Norman era gives rise to complex studies in onomastics and linguistics for the area - which became 'Northumbria.' Anglian and Viking languages met there at different times, and the evidence shows that they occasionally incorporated forms of Celtic. This influence might include even a little Irish-Celtic, because the Vikings, often from bases in Ireland, moved across the southerly area - where they held the Viking Kingdom of York. The Irish also later moved across the northern marches (subsuming the Picts).

Old English and History of the English Language are wonderful: I especially love to see how much our beautiful northern culture retains of what. Wish I had time left to study Celtic, too.

Herbert Thornton

Frank -

Asking somebody who has just visited granny -

Q. - "Ow wur sha?"

A. - "Eee, oo wur wick as a snig."

Edward McLaughlin

My favourite West Riding greeting:

Nathen sither how is tha?

Betna thee when a'm poorly.

streborjm

Young lady District Nurse, obviously of former Sub-Continental extraction, headscarfed-up, visiting my 96-year old mother:

"Ey, 'allo chuckie, 'ow are yer?"

Had to laugh.

(And I'm agait: "I can tell you come from round here!")

egh

Not a Tod.-er, surely?

egh

Nay, streborjm, not a Tod-er. A bit further dahn't river and to't south. Most recently spent time in Ossett, but have been gone a while.

streborjm

egh and others

Well, that was fun.

Interesting you mentioned Elmet, I did know a bit about it and your post prompted me to do a bit of research. I hadn't realised quite how extensive it had been - ie I believed it was mainly the area just north of the (Yorkshire) Calder Valley. Thanks.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Well this Wall will soon be coming down. Dominated by that harridan HH, when most of us competed in calling her nasty names. I was one of the worst, wasting time thinking up rude comments about her huge backside and horrible family. We should rather be launching a court case against her under the very legislation she helped create. Wonder if all this will affect the henna and hair dye industries, will auburn fall out of favour?