The politics of the student protests

stepney

What do we want?
More beer money
When do we want it?
After Countdown has finished.

No wonder they're so cross. This is the earliest some of them have been up in years.

Pot Head

BREAKING NEWS: ex-Bullingdon members queue up to denounce student violence.

Marcher Baron

The most significant placard I saw in coverage of the student protests was one which pointed out that tuition is free in Scotland and asked why not in England. United Kingdom? I think not.

Nick

Eight years ago almost half a million people marched through London with the aim of blocking the hunting ban – and to their dismay, the public took the government's side

===============

The public, and the protesters were not allowed any say.

Where for example was a referenda on the matter?

It was decided by the labour party on the basis of some form of class warfare.

It's time the public were given the direct choice in the matter.

Abolish the lords and use 20 million a year to register proxy votes for referenda by proxy on everything.

Borrowing, spending and taxation too

Colin

Muppets!

The labour party vacated Millbank years ago. Typical left wing f*ckwits.

They are protesting against the labour party, aren't they?

After all, it was labour that introduced tuition fees and labour policies that left the country vitally bankrupt. That's why these ridiculous clowns are out on the streets, isn't it?

Isn't it?

Dan Grover

"RT @OldHoborn: HA HA HA There's an "anarchist" protesting that the State won't pay his Uni fees. You cannot make it up #demo2010"

Indeed.

Colin

Sorry, that should read, virtually bankrupt.

Damn this iPad keyboard, and these bratwurst fingers...

GeoffH

You can philosophise all you like but taxpayers will simply say, "Why should I work and pay taxes, so that layabouts like these can spend their time kicking in office windows, lighting bonfires and causing general mayhem?"

Vulture

I'd say your assessment is broadly correct Peter. Hard-working folk, not to mention infuriated drivers snarled in central London, will ask how the allegedly cash-strapped students can afford to take a day off their precious studies ( not to mention the £25 fee my stepson was asked to pay for his Brighton-London Rent-a-mob coach) - to go and trash an office block containing very few Tories.

Its often forgotten that the '68 evenements in France were followed by a right-wing landslide at the next year's elections; Nixon coming to power in the US; a Tory victory here in 70; and even the Poll tax riots of 1990 brought to power not Lenin but John Major.

Tariq

Notice how many of the demostrators are taking pictures, as this generation seems compelled to do at all times in all contexts. It's more of an event than a protest. It is therefore purpose without meaning.

Rosie

Blair should have thought of this when he not only brought in tuition fees but a target of 50% of school-leavers going to university. How did he think it was all going to be paid for? I agree whole-heartedly with Colin and Vulture.

John Doldon

Ultimately this will back-fire on the government in the long run and it’s sad to see that the short-term policy thinking that lead us where we are today is continuing.

“The government keeps on playing with fire as long somebody else’s hand is going to be burned” – John Doldon

More on my homepage www.johndoldon.com

Walsingham's Ghost

Apparently, a significant number of Scottish students have travelled down to attend the riot (sorry, 'peaceful demonstartion') against Student Fees. Did I miss something?...

Frank P

The NUJ obviously paid for the interminable TV news loop of the one broken window - and the lighter fuel necessary to set fire to handful of posters on the pavement; as for the three Bobbies sent to control the 'crowds' - they fucked off with their tails between their legs and one helmet missing (to be used later as a piss-pot and returned for later use). Jolly japes! Proof again of the cowardice inherent in the training of the Met Police. God knows what they will do when the real revolution starts. Perhaps they'll change into mufti and join in. Can't say I would blame 'em.

Pot Head

Rod Liddle writing in The Guardian in 2002:

"You may have forgotten why you voted Labour in 1997. But then you catch a glimpse of the forces supporting the Countryside Alliance: the public schools that laid on coaches; the fusty, belch-filled dining rooms of the London clubs that opened their doors, for the first time, to the protesters; the Prince of Wales and, of course, Camilla ... and suddenly, rather gloriously, it might be that you remember once again."

I love that quote !

NW

I've just been having a coffee in one of the streets nearby - most of them look like normal students, and far from angry. Just a bunch of nice middle class kids, eying each other up and wearing silly hats.

justathought

@ Vulture

Indeed looking at the riots against the austerity measures by the Greek government you might have expected the government to have been humiliated in the local elections, which were seen a a referendum of sorts. The results showed a substantial majority for the government.

Likewise the more Crow and the RMT close down the tube the more that the public turn against them. Look at the backlash against the proposed fire fighters strike on halloween.

yank

Well, the coalition is an irrelevancy. But then, we knew that. They're just doing what the previous government would be doing, in face of a sovereign debt crisis.

I suspect the fault lines there will fall along similar to those here.

First, there's the older types, seeking transfer payments in their retirements. More of them to be sure, and we'll have to seek out efficiencies and appropriate means testing for recipients. They're organized and they vote. They are a force.

Second, there's the establishment government types at all levels, seeking wages and benefits and enhanced retirement payments, all currently well beyond their private sector potentials. They exercise maximum political pressure, fully organized and funded. They are a force, but far fewer in number.

Lastly, there'll be the young... expected to bear the above financial burdens. They're disorganized, not well funded, and periodically tend to smash, rather than vote. Behind the oldsters, they are #2 in the force hierarchy, once energized.

Somebody of these 3 groups is gonna lose out, or perhaps all of them to lose some. But I suspect the establishment government types are about to take a significant haircut here. They are the ones who have profited most from the expansions of government over these last few generations, in numbers and cost. Over the next generation or so, I predict they'll lose 20-30% of their current take. You saw them fighting scorched earth in the recent US election, as they well know what awaits them.

Dave might believe "student cuts" are the root of this, but joined up thinking says it's more of a formless angst, shaped around the above themes. Those kids know something's whacked, and they know it's falling on them (VAT, other taxes and fees, slow-growth policies, ecofoolishness). The window smashing and picket signs are merely a symptom. Responsible governance is to identify their real driver, and figure out a proper solution.

The bottom line figures are accepted by all, it's just how they're arrived at that's at issue, and the coalition will remain an irrelevancy until they get into this work. Their original task is finished. They executed it as Labor would have.

Same game being played here, I should think.

chevron

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. Well, I do and I don't. I understand that students are being stoked up into a frenzy by the militant lefty cliques running their unions, and feel aggrieved by what they are being told. But they are not thinking for themselves (despite being 'University' students!)

Under the new scheme, students will have a much better deal than currently: yes, they will have much greater debts to their name, but there will be no requirement to pay it off before they are earning a "graduate" salary. Don't tell me that the majority of polytechnic graduates in the regions walk into £22k+ jobs. There is a ridiculous situation currently whereby those who do not benefit financially from their studies (be it due to lack of graduate jobs, or a lack of funding within their chosen sector) are still being forced to pay for them due to the low threshold. Why do I say ridiculous? Because a university education has been sold by government as a path and requirement for greater wealth (traditionally the focus has been on development rather than employment, outside the professions). When such a promise is not fulfilled, is the the government and not the conned individual who should be responsible for the cost.

What I do wonder about, though, is the rather obvious gender-inequality effects of the proposals. Females are (still) far more likely than men to work part-time, or fill the role of housewife. By increasing the repayments threshold, any females that see their post-university future as marrying and perhaps holding down a job part-time while the children are at school, are effectively being handed a free University education. I make this as an observation, rather than a complaint: anything that encourages the traditional family gets my support :)

Alan Campbell

You ain't seen nothing yet.

Jez

Soft Lefty, Over Opinionated Students.....

where's the EDL when you need them?

GDT

I might be mistaken but measures announced won't effect current students....so what are the protesting about?

Jez

Attacking MI5 HQ now by all accounts on SKY...

- and now a statement "...only the beginning of the resistance"

What a bunch of stupid pathetic little bastards.

Jonathan Woolf

The number of "students" with digital SLR cameras (normally costing a few hundred quid) grinning as they take photos to show off how hard they are in the bar later suggests this lot aren't exactly strapped for cash.

EyeSee

Violent protest is now OK again because a Tory administration is (partly) in power. This is the real Left, this is true Labour. It is all a posturing farce, just as the Poll Tax 'protests' were.

strapworld

Honestly, Mr Hoskins, 'Fury of a generation'

Students so hard up they pay £40+ to travel down to London to demonstrate. Left wing rabble rousers, from a union that did hardly anything when Labour renaged on their election promise NOT to bring in student fees, stirring the young people up. Fed on what propoganda we shall never know!

The police woeful in their preparation. Letting the demonstrators believe they could get away with it by just having a handful of police in normal uniform walking about. I think an enquiry should be conducted by the Home Office into the police arrangements. You have got to be ready to stamp down immediately on any trouble makers. WHY have they been allowed to do so much?

Remember when they blocked demonstrators in London for hours? Great tactics why not here?

But, Mr Hoskin are you related to the scaremonger in chief Kay Burley? by any chance?

Quite quite nonsensical language.

I will apologise if this goes on for a week.

Jez

Police statement; "...A small minority.... response (will be) proportionate and appropiate to the situation"

About 2000 student / Left wing kids have tried to burn down the governments political HQ.

I take it the ex-left wing students that monopolise the media are now going to close ranks and mis-inform the rest of us in defence of their younger colleagues' work this afternoon.

(The kids are throwing fire extinguishers on to the police from the top of the building for goodness sake!)

The Police NEED to raise batons and steam into these idiots!

yank

I think the Spectator was on to it with yesterday's series of posts.

What you lot need is to hire a BUNCH more SpAds. Oh and a Chief of Staff for everybody.

That should give you enough governmental horsepower to sort this all out.

You lot seem to believe these poor MP's should work out of the trunks of their cars. Skinflint bastards, you are.

TomTom

Poor Old Colin was asleep when John Major created Universities ad infinitum before being booted out in 1997.

BOTH Front Benches conspired to keep Tuition Fees awa7y from the election by letting ex-Civil Servant Lord Dearing produce the ready-made answer AFTER the election. Conservatives and Labour conspired AGAINST the electorate not once, but several times.

Like Immigration, the EU, Tuition Fees were NOt to be discussed before the Children ie. the Voting Public and they were to be presented with a Fait Accompli.

This time the saddling of people on £43,000 with an Education Mortgage before they even get a Housing Mortgage and loss of Child Benefit is showing just how far The Middle is going to be screwed over by the Leisured Welfare Classes and the Bailed-Out Banker Classes.

This is building just the Coalition to blow the Conservative Party to pieces. It is using the middle income groups as Kulaks and it shows just how far Clegg, Cameron and Osborne are adrift of normal people that they think those earning little more than their annual school fees can possibly afford the crippling rates of Marginal Taxation being piled upon them.

Cameron is becoming The Undertaker of the Conservative Party driving out those whom Margaret Thatcher had attracted

davidk

Wait until the striking workers get into their stride.

The Coalition have to accept that if you poke a stick into a hornet's nest then you'll provoke a big reaction.

Much more to come like this as the unprecedented cuts hit home.

Dave B

1. Where were the police?

2. I hope the film leads to some prosecutions.

Dennis Churchill

NUS Subs are paid by us, the tax payers, so stop payment until the costs of policing and damage has been repaid.
If we get any arrests it will be interesting to see what the background of these “students” turns out to be.

Pete

This must be the most narcissistic riot ever held - morons filming each other idiot-dancing for friends on Youtube.

Are the little brats causing criminal damage for the cameras actually at university? It seems a staggeringly stupid thing to do - too stupid even for today's dumbed down students.

Ridcully

John Doldon: quoting yourself is about as pompous as it gets.

chevron

I am amused by some of the placards pictured on the BBC site. With the message, "F**K FEES", and headed by the name "Socialist Worker". Really, it says it all about this protest: a crude, illiterate message, delivered by the hard-left.

TGF UKIP

Be interesting to see how the Labour's and the NUS's best friends at the BBC handle this on the 6 o'clock news.

Apparently the police numbers were woefully inadequate for what could always have been predicted to turn into a riot. Deliberately inadequate, I wonder, as it certainly damages the "students'" cause.

Meanwhile, just imagine if the Cameron Tories had the an ounce of the nous of Blair & co. If they did they would now be sticking it to Labour and blaming them for all the inflammatory language they and their union pals had been using on the public spending issues in the past few weeks. Just imagine, that's all you can do,

Double Gloucester

Stop universities giving the NUS money from public funds. If students want the NUS they must pay for it themselves. I doubt very many will be prepared to sacrifice their beer money in that way and the NUS will accordingly wither away. Great, as it has been a breeding ground for the worst kind of Labour leaders.

Jez

1. Where were the police?

Scared to physically defend themselves.

2. I hope the film leads to some prosecutions.

In about 4 months once the police footage has been scrutinised.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Cameron is in China rambling along about human rights, bla bla, bla and at home he has his own mini- Tiananmen Square taking place at the very moment he is blabbering away.

Cynic

"You may have forgotten why you voted Labour in 1997. But then you catch a glimpse of the forces supporting the Countryside Alliance: the public schools that laid on coaches; the fusty, belch-filled dining rooms of the London clubs that opened their doors, for the first time, to the protesters; the Prince of Wales and, of course, Camilla ... and suddenly, rather gloriously, it might be that you remember once again." I take it from that description that you like so much, Pot Head, that Ron wasn't there. I was - and no, I didn't go to public school, nor am I toff, even if I've hunted most of my life, starting out with my working class father following hounds on a bike. If people remember why they voted Labour in 1997 was it so that class warriors could be hell bent on imposing their ignorant view on people whose way of life they didn't understand and who ignored all the evidence of two VERY expensive reports because it didn't give them the answer they wanted? Rather like Iraq, really. Yes, I'm sure people remember why they voted Labour in 1997 and I hope they've learned the error of their ways - even Tony Blair admitted the unworkable Hunting Act was a mistake. It's a pity none of them has owned up to all the other mistakes they made - Iraq, the economy, immigration, education, welfare ghettos, the Lisbon Treaty, detention without trial, multiculturalism ...

Colin

Tom Tom @4:45

I'm not poor, by any stretch of the imagination...

TGF UKIP

Pot Head predictably living down to his Primrose Hill image, I see. As for his hero (heroine?) Liddle, well all we need to do is recall his cringing, bleating response and fawning embrace of the sisterhood, when a couple of lefty hackettes coughed and spluttered after his "Harman, not even after ten pints" piece in the house mag.

Pot Head and Liddle - the perfect personifications of London.

strapworld

Jez, As you will have read from my earlier comment I, rightly, condemn the police for their tactics (or lack of same) today.

However, let us not forget that they are criticised heavily if they arrest anyone rioting (for that is what it is) and someone is hurst (never worry if it is a police officer!).

People have got to get real and understand there is only one way to deal with criminals like today (for that is what they are) and that is by going in hard and ensuring you arrest them all.

There should be night courts operating and sentencing them tonight. There will not be. There will be trial after trial all at public expense.

One matter that must happen is the immediate resignation of the woeful commissioner of the metropolitan police. He failed in his primary duty today. His statement after the event was cowardly and done to attempt to remove him from criticism. He is in charge. He failed. He must go!

TGF UKIP

As we have now seen the officer in charge was indeed very high ranking - a teenage blonde bimbo Assistant Commissioner.

She might indeed be clueless when it comes to planning for predictable trouble, but boy of boy, does she tick all the right boxes.

Frank P

This incident shows just how much public order intelligence and major incident handling has plunged into the abyss in recent years. They either go in like the Gestapo - or not at all.

The demo was under-policed from the outset. To suggest, as some young woman (who announced that she is a Deputy Assistant Commissioner, but looked as though she was a dentist's receptionist in fancy dress about to do a strippagram), announced after the wheel had come off, "We were not expecting trouble" was shocking even to someone like me who long since gave up regarding the Met. as anything but a basket case. I was expecting trouble and I've been retired for nearly 30 years!

Her name was Rose. One suspects that is in the past tense, as she will hopefully rise no farther in the wanks of the police 'service'. Eventually Commissar Paul Stephenson appeared and spoke to Martin Brunt. He tried his best to make the best of a bad job, but from the glint in his eye Ops Control Room at the Yard is probably strewn with the debris of wrecked careers. Then Boris the Berk tried to garner a bit of kudos by blaming a 'small minority' but was really there to ensure the punters that it was 'nowt to do with me - I was upstairs collecting fares at the time'.

I bet Dave choked on his pot noodle in Peking today when someone piped the pictures to him. Where was 'fuck-me-shoes' while all this was taking place? Is she in China, too? So far she hasn't deigned to put in an appearance. Can't blame her - she will have to go, too, any noise from her will accelerate the process hopefully.

Jack Lawlor and John Gerard, who organized the original A8 Branch (Public Order and Major Incidents in the late 1960s) must be spinning in their graves. What do they call the outfit now? KC8 Dept?

Btw. where was Cressida Dick when all this was happening? After all she got promoted for her wonderful leadership during the Stockwell assassination, didn't she? I'm sure she would have handled it beautifully.

If a few bus loads of spotty, pot-smoking stewdunces can take the the ruling party's HQ with nary a fight from the 'forces of law and order', God help us when the left really gets organized.

FMOBB!

Paddy

They'll all be queuing outside Dixons before Christmas for the latest I-pod or Wii.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

I couldn't understand why so many Scottish students (and possibly hangers on) were at the demo. They don't have to pay for university education as it is subsidised by us poor suckers. Then I realised why so many were there - the crowd had a large proportion of ginger nuts. Revenge of the Ginger Rodents. Don't blame them, go get her!

Captain Christy

Having watched a few student interviews on the news, they all voted Lib-Dem. Are our future so stupid they expected Nick Clegg to form a Government ? By the way, I am not a " Poppy Nazi" but I did not see one of the thousands of protesters wearing one!

Paddy

cynic: Yes we remember people voting Labour in 1997.

We gave them a chance - but never again.

This is what 13 years of Labour has done to the country.

Fulcra1537

Those hard headed gentlefolk of the Chinese Politbureau having listened politely and no doubt inscrutably to Dave's lecture on human rights will have had a good laugh afterwards in the members' lounge watching the mayhem unfold outside his own party HQ.As he was rather unkindly reminded, he is rather young.

This episode seems to demonstrate the paralysis and irresolution and,at times incompetence,that infects the Met's command structure.On past experience with mass demonstrations of this kind,it seems incomprehensible that they were not expecting rentamob.Too many fast track graduates in the upper echelons fluent in the weasel lexicon of political correctness and but with precious little sharp end experience it seems.

Captain Christy-So far as the rabble capering in and around Millbank today are concerned poppies are a fetishistic anachronistic glorification of this country's shameful record of conquest and imperialism.

Alice

By putting up the fees, the government are implying they wish to cut the number of students entering the universities. Surely if they asked the universities to increase their grade requirements then that would demonstrate going to university was about education and not how rich you are.

Also, if the government is planning to cut education funding by up to 40%, then what exactly is the extra 6000 a year providing?
Surely we are now paying more for less.

Percy

I don't really get it, normally the Met love dressing up like the Waffen SS and getting tucked in, so why not now?

steve

Actually, most of the students there yesterday, not just the ones from Scotland, will be unaffected by the trebling of tuition two years from now. Perhaps they were protesting about the accessibility of higher education and in solidarity with those who will follow them. Sorry if that doesn't conform to the stereotypes of students being posted here.

Paddy

Percy: I hope you are not BLAMING the police'

They are not faceless people.

They are young men and women putting their lives on the line.

They are doing our dirty work because the spoilt children of today have no manners and they get little thanks for it.

Derek Forth

Labour lost the election via the democratic ballot. So now via the unions they seek to remain in power via violent protest controlling feeble young minds. So where were the protesters when Labour broke a manifesto promise and introduced fees in the first place. Where were they when Labour deregulated the banks and went on a 10 year spending spree leading to the bankruptcy that necessitates these cuts in the first place.

Labour and the unions are the new Nazi's, trying to take over our country by force. People need to be aware that Labour cares nothing for the democratic process and should fight back against these fascists. We need to organise protests against the unions to prevent this disease and save our country from becoming a communist police state under Neo Liebour. Conspiracy theory? I suggest you google and learn, and do it fast, before it's too late!

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Welcome-to-La-La-Labour-Land/115356108524076

Catherine

Let's get smart. Most employers want NVQs. If people do want degrees, it's possible to stay at home, or move in with friends, and to work, even part time, and take a degree with the Open University. That way, people can get a degree and not rack up £40 000 debt.

bryn

I need to leave this website and stop reading comments before I despair.

Student

Do so called adults really believe that generalising an entire generation of kids as idiots makes our arguments any less valid? Believe it or not, not all students are lay-about morons who have no idea what they're protesting about. Taking as much money as humanly possible from the 'future generation' is not the answer to our country's problems and will come back to bite you all in the arse. If we don't have the money to go to university, we don't get the qualifications, we don't make the money and we can't support you when you're bitter little pensioners. Try putting politicians on minimum wage and then see how quickly things change.

Harry

As a student (seemingly the only one here), I must say I support the demonstrations. Not the violence, that's wrong though.

There hasn't been a lot of intelligence from either side here so the basic reason why 'we' are protesting is this: cuts to education and other social services. We're not all Labour, by any means. In fact, a majority aren't. Some support other left parties, or none at all. Some are Lib Dems. And some are just yer average punter angry about the effects of the cuts.

I do think there has been a great deal of misunderstanding on 'our' side, as to whether tuition fees will benefit us or not. But 1) I bet nobody in this thread had to pay a penny for their education, which seemingly only taught them how to gob off and 2) we honestly feel that everything is targeted at us at present: education, funding, VAT hikes, more difficulty getting a job or home upon graduation, cuts to benefits, highest level of youth unemployment for a generation...

We're angry not just with Cameron but with the political class in general. And I'd say we've got every right to be.