Labour stumble into tomorrow's tuition fee vote

davidk

Make your mind up, you either crow about Miliband's weak leadership or attack Shadow Ministers caving into his demands for loyalty.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

Wyrdtimes

Presumably this will be a graduate tax for English students only eh?

Senor Frizby

We are no longer a democracy. We have a ruling coalition and Labour cease to exist as an opposing party. They are mangled and confused; in a terminal high fever.

Edward

How can the government see fit to limit debate on this issue to three hours?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_commons/newsid_9266000/9266043.stm

I remember at one point the Tories were proposing to let Parliament set its own debates. Now this. How they stink.

Verityred

Yes you can davidk, now back to your dog basket, there's a good fellow. Let your Labour masters struggle with their vacuous contortions..

toco

Red Ed and Alan Johnson are two people making a pantomime horse but the trouble is neither can fathom out which end is which.

Pettros

It is quite obvious that Labour are at the stage of policy development and so there will be mixed messages. You dont become good opposition after 13 years of gov over night. There are too many agendas and recriminations still kicking around for a focused message just to appear. I think wisely that Lab realise that the Coalition are not going to collapse imminently, and as much as I hate to say it the Lib Dems will survive the tuition fees fiasco comfortabley.
Lab can take heart in the fact that they still have a large and growing support even before the cuts have really kicked in. I think the real blows can be landed next year and after that when the public have made their mind up about the coalition. It hink there will be a re-shuffle before that.

mitcheltj

and politicians wonder why the public holds them in such contempt.

tb

I'm confused as to why students would prefer to pay between 3%-6% for life (if they earn over a set threshold) vs paying off a fixed sum (if they earn over a set threshold).

Other than the fact that student leaders have a career path in the Labour party. I'm not sure Aaron Porter's desires of a safe seat will benefit the average demonstrator.

Pete Hoskin

davidk: I dealt with that in my second paragraph above. I even describe this as, "in some respects," a "minor triumph for Ed Miliband." Of course, it's better for the Labour leader to have him and his Shadow Chancellor singing from the same hymn sheet, rather than openly divided.

My point, which I also set out in the second para above, is that the Johnson U-turn is still typical of how Labour have approached the tuition fees issue: uncertain and indecisive. This does not preclude, nor is it precluded by, anything else I have written.

Louisa

What about the overseas students? After they have gone home (hopefully) when do they pay or will they have to pay upfront?

DavidDP

The amusing thing is that he has to resort to hyperbole to try and be convincing. This fails however when he claims that the government have betrayed Labour's legacy on fees, which ignores that the new arrangements are the result of a review set up by Labour.

toni

.."Labour stumble? the party's clumsy response to the brouhaha over tuition fees"
You don’t do irony then? and as for the previous wavering Libdem ministers who will now line up behind Tories to push this vote through in a determined attempt to hold onto their job, or to be offered one, and will justifiably earn the contempt of the public.
What a bunch of idiots: doing the Tory dirty work and being reviled for it whilst Cameron and co. float above the fray untouched.

Matt

Ed's position is this: If the coalition fails, there could be an election. He hopes he would win. BUT!! he cannot tie himself to positions on tuition fees, taxes, VAT, spending cuts, because he knows the truth! Labour would have to be just as ruthless as the coalition, if not more so.

TGF UKIP

Language is important in politics and especially in Labour politics so what this probably all boils down to is "Fees are bad but a tax, any tax, is good."

Now if Dave is any good he will today make hay with Milipede's Facebook foray and tag him Red Ed the student leader, the Daniel Cohn-Bendit of our day. Indeed, he might even enquire of The Swivel-eyed one if he is going to be threatened across the despatch box with a fire extinguisher.

yank

Matt
December 8th, 2010 11:36am

"Ed's position is this: If the coalition fails, there could be an election. He hopes he would win. BUT!! he cannot tie himself to positions on tuition fees, taxes, VAT, spending cuts, because he knows the truth! Labour would have to be just as ruthless as the coalition, if not more so."

.

Yes, that is the dirty little secret here, isn't it? Same policies... different faces. Both would be dealing with the sovereign debt issue right now.

And it was Dave who stood by while Brown was jacking spending, remember. Same policies... different faces... then as now.

Dan Grover

Louisa, it will scarcely change for them. They already pay around that, because the government doesn't pay for them. Now UK people are paying for themselves, too, but the value to each university of each degree hasn't changed much, just its source. So I don't see why International funding would change.

Paddy

Yank: "It was Dave who stood by whilst Brown was jacking spending remember".

You admit that Brown was reckless then.

---------

Alan Johnson will have a lot to answer for when the Public Inquiry at Stafford Hospital has ended.

jhj

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2306/sgoliath.jpg