Nick Clegg's balancing act

TrevorsDen

Where these LibDems about to commit a bank robbery? Being a Liberal Democrat is not a crime. Neither is a Liberal democrat being unhappy with or suspicious of tories.

Or vice versa.

So yet another Spectator post that misses the point.

Why has the Telegraph gone out of its way to use underhand methods (breaking the journalist Code of Practice on the way) to destabilise the coalition.

Are the Spectator journalists afraid to ask that question?

The Telegraph has acted illegally - care to comment? And your opinion on why the telegraph did not spill the Rupert Murdoch beans would be interesting too. This would demonstrate that not all journalists are unethical.

Chuck Unsworth

Well the Lib Dems should decide whether they actually want to be in Government or whether they wish to be a party eternally in Opposition. There's no chance of them being able to acquire or manipulate power unless they compromise. If they really want to push it their party will be split - with the inevitable consequence of being a permanent minority. Perhaps people like Cable do believe otherwise, but that is sheer fantasy and a measure of their delusions.

Frankly the 'tensions' are irrelevant. You get 'tensions' in any organisation. The art is to manage them effectively.

What's extraordinary about this is the sheer absence of any political savvy. These people really are dense if they've been caught out like this. A couple of giggling girlies wander into their surgeries and suddenly these Ministers of State are putty in their hands. Are the Lib Dems people really up to the business? They're carrying on like a bunch of third-rate Borough Councillors.

For my money the Telegraph has done us all a service in confirming the astounding naivety and incompetence of the Lib Dems. Of course their duplicity is a given, and Cameron and his colleagues will have made that particular calculation a very long time ago.

Peter West

The LibDems are on a hiding to noting. Part of their ideology in supporting voting reform is that consensual politics is the way forward. Different parties working together is the inevitable consequence of the proportional representation they have so avidly advocated. If they can't make this work, if they can't prove that coalitions can work they they remove a large part of their raison d'etre and will lose much of their appeal to the electorate. Just now it looks as though much of the party would really much prefer to be a permanent opposition rather than suffer the travails of actually being responsible for governing.

wrinkled weasel

TD, I think you mean point 5 of the Code of Conduct, published by the NUJ:

A journalist shall obtain information, photographs and illustrations only by straightforward means. The use of other means can be justified only by over-riding considerations of the public interest. The journalist is entitled to exercise a personal conscientious objection to the use of such means.

Point Six comes to mind:

Subject to the justification by over-riding considerations of the public interest, a journalist shall do nothing which entails intrusion into private grief and distress.

The reporters concerned will no doubt cite the "public interest" clause.

As to the "illegality" of the method, you are on dodgy ground. It is not illegal to assume a role for the purposes of gathering information unless that information is related to an illegal act, such as a phishing scam.

There is no substance to this story because it amounts to little more than tittle-tattle from some very insecure people in whose interests it is to big themselves up in front of civilians.

By the way, if being a Liberal Democrat is not a crime, in my opinion it should be.

Maggie

We can now abandon all hope that the LibDems might rise to the challenge of being in government and start acting like statesmen. They've just confirmed that their default positions are petulant teenager or fifth columnist and they're not about to change.
Their excuse that this will go down well with their grass roots is nonsense when the polls all show that LibDems are mostly very happy with the Coalition. Their latest strategy, of claiming credit for policies that were in the Conservative Manifesto at the same time as stabbing their Tory colleagues in the back, shows that it is they who can't be trusted.

Hugo Chav

I am disgusted with the Daily Telegraph who are using subterfuge to destabilise the Coalition. Our economic situation is precarious with inflation, tax rises, spending cuts and possibly rising interest rates. Why spy on MPs? Is the Telegraph intentionally poisoning our public space, will people of public stature be afraid to speak their mind to public?

I think the Telegraph has become real nasty rag.

Rhoda Klapp

If underhand methods expose deceit, then there is at least somethiing to be said for them. Let us be sure that most political journos already knew about all this. They had it off the record. We the public were the only ones not allowed to know. I despise the lobby, and 'off the record'. So I have no problem with the way the DT exposed this. But in the end, few surprises really. So LibDems are uncomfortable. It's a coalition, it is not expected to show complete agreement, any more than a large party on its own can agree completely.

As I commented elsewhere, but will paraphrase here because I know not many people read the Massie blog, it is not what the coalition disagrees on that worries me, it is the things they agree on that are just plain daft.

strapworld

WHY are the Spectator correspondents ignoring the scandal within the EU.

1. EUOBSERVER
CHINA-EU RELATIONSChina 'very concerned' by European debt crisis

2 WALL STREET JOURNAL. article by Patience
Wheatcroft.

"The Diaoyutai State Guesthouse in Beijing was once the residence of Madam Mao. Now it provides China with an equivalent of Camp David, a high security compound for state visitors, and at the beginning of this week it was the site for the 3rd EU-China High Level Economic and Trade Dialogue.
Although the official communiques describe the talks in positive terms, there must have been moments when the EU delegation reflected ruefully on how the relative standing of the two blocs had changed since Chairman Mao's grim Cultural Revolution. A hint of what really went on inside the 800-year-old building came from the Chinese commerce minister, Chen Deming, who told the People's Daily: "We want to see if the EU is able to control sovereign debt risks and whether consensus can be translated into real action to enable Europe to emerge from the financial crisis soon and in a good shape."

As much of Europe continues to struggle with its mountainous debts, China has let it be known that it will be prepared to help out by buying bonds from stricken Greece and Portugal but part of the price will be enduring lectures from the new paymasters"

As Martin Cole writes "The depths to which the leaders of the EU will sink in their attempts to save the wretched euro currency which they see as the salvation of their anti-democratic project seem to know no bounds. Perhaps it is the very nature of their own secret ambitions for total autocratic control that allows them to turn a blind eye to the realities of the Chinese regime"

Why no comment on this very important and worrying EU policy from the Speccy?

strapworld

Mr Forsyth, you write "In a country that traditionally does not love coalitions"!

I am in my late 60's, apart from the war years I have never known a coalition government. How on earth can you make such a statement? A tradition is to pass on of customs, beliefs etc from generation to generation. A long established custom.!!

Trying to make a story from a non story is shoddy journalism Mr Forsyth.

Vulture

(Not-so)Clever Trevor asks:
'Why has the Telegraph gone out of its way to use underhand methods to de-stablise the coaliton?'
A: To sell newspapers!
The DT is not a cheerleader for the coalition as Trev seems to expect it to be. Maybe it is as sick as the rest of us at being Governed by a bunch of rich liberal drips like Dave and the ludicrous Oliver Leftwing ( 'A burglar? Oh do use my loo')
masquerading as Conservatives.

normanc

I don't see what's illegal about anything the Telegraph has done. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I'm no lawyer, but it seems no different from the sting that caught the Labour ministers pre-election (taxi for hire), the fake sheikh stings the News of the Screws regularly runs, Panaroma undercover investigations in hospitals, etc. If we clamp down on undercover investigations I think it will be a backwards step for democracy and ask that reporters show ID and read some form of Miranda rights before asking a question.

That aside, as for these 'revelations' (apart from Clegg's staggering lapse) there's nothing in them. Politicians don't trust each other? Welcome to humanity, none of the rest of us trust you either. Lib Dems don't particularly like Tories and feel like they are working behind enemy lines? You don't say.

I'm waiting for the Conservative 'revelations'. I wonder what they'll bring. Maybe Tory MP's saying that being in coalition with the Lib Dems is like having a fifth column inside government trying to undermine all they want to do.

Hardly jaw dropping stuff.

normanc

I meant Cable's lapse, not Clegg.

yank

strap,

Yeah, the EUcrats are on the prowl for bailout cash, Chicom or otherwise.

And I noticed last week that Osborne and The Gord were over here simultaneously. Maybe I'm paranoid, but why do I get the suspicion that they were both meeting with the snakes from the Fed and Treasury?

The masters of the universe have to make their plans, because the PIGS are gonna have to be rolling over their long term debt in the first 2 quarters next year.

But the Chicoms and the Germans seem to be in lockstep, and the Fed and Treasury will start coming into step at gunpoint, come January. I think the PIGS are SOL. They better start breaking out the tear gas and riot brigades.

Fergus Pickering

Vulture, what are real conservatives like? Who are they like? Give me some names of people active in politics now. I really want to know.

dorothy wilson

I'm beginning to wonder how on earth the LibDems will be able to campaign for AV given that is likely to lead to more coalitions.

Bloody Bill Brock

@VULTURE
This continual griping about Dave, Gideon et al, being closet lefties is rather stupid. If they were, the harsh (but totally necessary) cuts would not be planned or implemented. They would be mincing around like Labour trying to prove the financial crisis can be solved painlessly, as Macmillan would have done. The skewed (in Labours favour) voting distribution and the British voter forced Cameron into a coalition and its a bloody sight better than Labour.

Commentator

Why is it such a surprise that most Lib Dems hate the Tories? The Lib Dems are generally neither liberal nor democratic. Far too many are joyless finger-wagging puritans who are never happier than when bossing other people around, criminalising dissent and/or spending other people's money. In short, the UK middle classes ate their hypocritical worst. The Lib Dems are a dumping ground for failed student politicians (Kennedy); pompous lightweights (Pantsdown); sanctimonious backstabbers (Hughes and Huhne) and a motley crew of third-raters who are either too snobbish to vote Labour or who find Labour an inadequate platform for living out their retro-hippy fantasies. The Coalition was never about doing what was best for Britain. It was all about safeguarding Cameron, Clegg (the ultimate carpet bagger) and their inner circle, bearing in mind that both had failed to live up to expectations in the General Election.

PayDirt

Besides the Chinese being so nice as to lend a hand in defending the Euro we have their client N Korea issuing smokescreening threats of nuclear war, all in preparation for what exactly? Coalitions are for times of war. Look out here comes 2011.

Commentator

BBB, there are no "harsh (but totally necessary) cuts." At best limited pressure has been applied to the runaway spending train (which the Tory modernisers endorsed for years) so that the public debt is growing more slowly. This is the absolute bare minimum needed to placate the bond markets who are now waking up to the fact that the Government and the BOE have been using inflation and QE to default on a large part of the UK's debt. It is also worrying that yesterday's figures indicate that spending is growing faster than expected, not least because more money is being chucked at windmills and the EU.

Bloody Bill Brock

@COMMENTATOR
Yes but the Tories were the biggest party by 50 seats and the Liberals joined them in a coalition. Labour LOST. HA HA HA HA

PayDirt

In my simple mind, LibDems represent an alternative to a voter when sufficiently cheesed off the normal affiliation: Labour for low-paid workers (and people on state benefit), Conservative for Middle England. In other words, if one thinks a bit then surely there must be something better than those scoundrel Socialist or Tories. But then the reality is, with a bit more thought, there is something worse, it’s the amateur politicians who used to be called Liberal, now called Lib-Dem, itself a past coalition.
Enough to make one not bother voting.

TomTom

So Ark Royal was stripped months ago; replacement submarine orders have been delayed until after the election; the army will face redundancies if casualties do not create natural wastage in Afghanistan; French will be the new lingua franca on aircraft carriers; and we can be grateful to the first Lib-Con Coalition since 1931 for this deconstruction of national defence.

Geoff Adlam

Talking of illegality...watched TV news last night. Cable being driven off from posse of press; police in attendance. Quite clearly Cable failed to fasten seatbelt. Which is illegal. Whyfore police take no action? Whyfore gov ministers above the law?

oldtimer

One (intended?) consequence of all this is to weaken the case for the AV camp, come the referendum. That is a welcome consequence.

We have had more than enough weasel words and phony "promises" from majority governments elected under FPTP. The prospect of having to listen to whingeing DimLibs, in whatever future coalition they can cobble together, from here to eternity is too ghastly to contemplate. Well done the Daily Telegraph!

Vulture

@ Fergus P. You ask who real Conservatives are - well, according to a recent ConHome poll some 80% of party members identified themselves as 'mainstream' as opposed to 'liberal' Conservatives. This large majority are the people I mean. You also ask for names, well I would consider John Redwood, Douglas Carswell, Dan Hannan, Graham Brady, Mark Reckless,
Patrick Mercer, and several other MPs as true Tories. (I know Hannan is an MEP).
There are probably many more in the new intake.

@BB Brock: Dave, Leftwing and Gideon are typical liberal Tories : too rich to worry abt money themselves, they have a patronising, lordly attitude to the serfs whom they vaguely think (out of class guilt) should be given a small fraction of the boodle they enjoy. Of course Liebour would be far worse. I just think true Toryism would be far better!

David Bouvier

I see nothing but "straight-forward" means being used. Two people, unknown members of the public, met an MP in the traditional manor of unknown members of the public, and asked them about their feelings on the government they are part of. There was no subterfuge or entrapment in the questioning.

It is only the known propensity of MPs to lie when the truth was reported without a recording as back-up that makes the recording necessary. This is far more straight forward than the entrapment of offering contracts etc where people have an incentive to boast and impress.

JohnAnt

Nick Clegg could take a moment to remind Vince Cable that the rule of confidentiality when a constituent comes to a local 'surgery' means the MP is bound not to disclose the contents of the discussion in the interests of the *constituent's* confidentiality. The MP is not supposed to use the interview for clandestine tittle-tattle, backbiting, ministerial grandstanding or electioneering.
Fact is, these were (purportedly) two LimpDeb voters and Vince was trying to assure they voted for him next time round. (Which is what all LimpDeb MPs do all the time.)
This is an abuse of constituency business.

H I Manning

Copy of email to my MP
May I suggest a call for a boycot of the Telegraph. We complain of the Spin from
politicians, but look what happens when a politician tries to be honest with his
constituents.
We don't want press censorship, but the public can establish standards if they
choose.For that reason when I hear people complain of the standards in politics
I say look in a mirror. Yeah! THEY are all out for themselves is the cry. True to a point but then, when will the voter vote in the National interest rather than
personal interest?

Fergus Pickering

Vulture, tell me the Tory MPs who haven't got a few bob nd can therefore empathise with the poor. The very fact that they are MPs means they are in the top 10% of wage earners, does it not? The excellent Dan Hannan must be a millionaire by now, and John Redwood certainly is. And why not? Tories are SUPPOSED to be rich, aren't they? Is being a true Tory being a Eurosceptic? Is there anything else that true Tories believe in? Low Taxes? Low spending? Does not our Dave believe in these things? Cutting off benefits from the undeserving? Is that not what the good Gideon is now doing? Do you disapprove of them because they enjoyed the best education that money could buy? Would they be more suitable if they had had to go to free schools that taught them nothing? I was quite well educated at a free school myself, but that was long, long ago. I think the true Tories were much to blame, particularly Margaret Thatcher and her Ministers of Education who continued the destruction of the Grammar Schools - which all true Tories approve of, surely.

justathought

@Rhoda Klapp & David Bouvior

I agree entirely, there is little point in shooting the messenger.As the DT have shown now and previously with the expenses exposure MPs must not merely achieve the minimum standards they can get away with but rather stride to achieve the highest standards in public life.

The statements by the Business secretary about Murdoch if put before a Judicial Review would possibly have caused even greater damage to the reputation of Dr Cable and the damaged the coalition.

As James quoted "Sanders accuses Clegg & Co. of being uncomfortable with their own party and far too interested in showing the Tories that they are tough" I would imagine that this goes some way to explaining the statements on bankers bonuses and Murdoch.

As others have commented the focus should be on reducing the deficit and creating conditions for the economy to grow.

In2minds

@Geoff Adlam - No seat belt, so what would you have done, kettle him?

TrevorsDen

"Part of their ideology in supporting voting reform is that consensual politics is the way forward. Different parties working together is the inevitable consequence of the proportional representation they have so avidly advocated. If they can't make this work ..."

Absolutely correct Mr West. This is one of the real downsides for LDs whinging about the differences within the coalition. They say they WANT coalitions ... but do not like it when there are inevitably policies they are not happy with.

'Commentator' reckons there are no cuts. If so why are people complaining? He is confused - labour are pretending there is no need for cuts.
And he is wrong - the coalition is need to make sure we have a govt strong enough to push the cuts through.

Its you who are not very clever Vulture. Just stop and think (for once) - if the motive was to sell papers then WHY did it censor the most sensational bit?
The Telegraphs motive was to undermine the coalition.
If the sane elements of the coalition take this to heart then it could emerge stronger.
And people like Vulture repeatedly refuse to admit that Cameron is no different to any Tory PM for years. Let me repeat - Thatcher knew how to compromise - she signed the single market and closed grammar schools.

Buit I am ashamed - fancy typing where instead of were ...
But the point remains - The Telegraph broke the NUJ code - its revelations are of the 'yah boo suck' variety. it did not even publish the Murdoch stuff - it might in fact be accused of 'insider dealing'. But I do take your point Mr Weasel - and I too think being a LD is a thought crime.

TGF UKIP

Ann Widdecombe and Kim Howells on the World at One today summed the LibDem situation up perfectly. Not only are they completely inexperienced at government or being anywhere near government but their campaigning instincts have long been to say and promise anything populist in search of a vote in the sure and certain knowledge that they would never have to live up to those promises.

Additionally, our Ann got it dead right when she separated out the Tuesday from the Wednesday Cable revelations. His abrogation of his ministerial legal obligations via his declaration of war on Murdoch, a declaration,incidentally, that he made clear he was going to act upon, rendered him entirely unfit for office and he should have been sacked without further ado.

With regard to the present post by our James, noteworthy again isn't it, how he attempts to minimize any threat all these revelations might mean to his and his editor's beloved coalition.

Can I, therefore, offer him and his editor a word of friendly advice - having been so wrong about this year's election result, I'd be very careful if I were you at presuming on the longevity of the present farce, otherwise people, the Barclay brothers for instance, might start wondering why they were paying you all that money in your guise as political pundits. I might just be inclined to bear in mind that pundits are pundits only by getting it right.

Meanwhile, let's all look forward to the DT revelations of what the Tories think of the the LibDems and of Dave and the Clique for that matter. Now that really should add to the gaiety of the season.

A Happy Christmas and enjoyable blogging in 2011 to one and all,scribblers and CHers alike.

normanc

I heard Ann Widdecombe on World at One today too, thought she nailed it. She can tell the truth now she is no longer in politics and said what all of us are thinking.

TGIF with regard to pundits, I regularly listen to 'The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe' podcast (I know, I'm a sad nerd, but I don't like Star Trek so at least there are worse out there) and there was a fascinating interview this week with an author who did a book examining punditry.

Long story short, you're better off either tossing a coin or predicting 'no change', you'll score far higher. Virtually all pundits were hopeless and the more specialised a pundit is, the more narrow his field, the worse he is.

The only ones who scored marginally (and it was only marginally) above random chance were ones who had wide ranging views and made woolly statements e.g. there's a good chance the coalition will break up next year but on the other hand they could see the five years out with favourable circumstances.

In2minds

What a stupid man Vince Cable is. The best thing would have been to keep quiet, but no he has given the Evening Standard an interview saying that the Daily Telegraph tactic "undermines MPs". Oh how sad! The coalition of which he is a part has taken over from Nulabour the Orwellian 'Interception Modernisation Programme'. This will pry into our lives and store data without consultation or our permission. And no doubt if the EU wanted to dip into this database the Lib Dems would only be to happy to oblige. His party and its policies have been undermining the UK for years and now he wants our sympathy!

TrevorsDen

We know what people think of Farage

http://critical-reaction.co.uk/2802/05-11-2010-ukip-treason-and-plot

Major Plonquer 1

The obvious way to rebalance the Coalition would be to interview a number of Tories and ask them what they think of their LibDem partners.

Still,this would likely lead to complaints to the PCC about the overuse of the word 'cunts'.

Lord Boyders

I am losing patience with the Telegraph. It is on some sort of an anti-government mission which I would rather not have any part of.

Ironically I may have to start reading the Times.

Commentator

Trev, you clearly need an English O Level to balance the French O Level you were boasting about the other day. I didn't say there were no cuts....just that they are a drop in the ocean compared to the real massive underlying problem of Britain's unpayable and growing debt. Try reading what I said before launching into yet another of your Pyongyang-style broadcasts on behalf of the Coalition. I could write them myself.

Geoff Adlam

In2minds:

As a citizen I obey the law and understand there will be consequences should I break it.

I do not understand why a Minister of the Crown should be granted a dispensation to breach the law. It appears symptomatic of the attitude of the political class they are subject to a different set of rules than the hoi polloi that they claim to represent. Btw last night another TV News report showing cable being driven away - again no seat belt. Hardly setting a good example.

I think at the very least the police should give him words of advice.

Bernice

Cheeky Baker to compare himself with our iconic Helen Suzman - he obviously knows very little about that lady's history. Will he next tell us he is ready to be sainted? Come come.