Government by signature

libertarian

What a complete and total nonsense. Another gimmick to fool the people. Our ruling elite ( the EU) don't even taken any notice of an entire national vote ( Ireland) so as if they would take any notice of a stupid petition.

Its a device to distract the prolls

Rhoda Klapp

They already debate issues such as the EU or climate change or the totally inadequate energy policy which involves the govt putting up bills in a cold winter in pursuit of a chimera, but the debates are completely bloody useless. If we are to have the petition thing, we have to go the whole Swiss hog.

Rick

If our elected representatives actually conveyed the needs of their constituents to Parliament then this would never have been proposed. They serve the Whips, not us.

Alan Douglas

"72,222 signatures in the end: not quite enough to have it debated in Parliament"

If the consequence of signing HAD BEEN REAL, as opposed to purely symbolic, there would have been many more signatures. Not too many people bother with the futile. Which is why voting in local elections is a joke compared even to HoC ones.

Alan Douglas

charles hercock

EU withdrawal is a goer

Start the publicity here and go on to Guido etc so that when Dave's site goes live we can get thwe required votes in a day

Minnie Ovens

Since the Government has taken no notice as to what the majority of the country thinks and has broken nearly every promise that it (Mr Cameron) has made, it will cost a lot for little in return.
Which increasingly, sums up Westminster and Whitehall.

Anthony

This is a good first step towards having a democratic system of government rather than a autocratic government.

Next step, every law passed by parliament should be confirmed by the populous via a block referendum. You could vote no for specific laws or just confirm everything.

Vulture

Since a majority of the public favours restoration of the death penalty, a referendum on EU withdrawal, an end to the European Human Rights Act, and a halt to Islamisation I think its unlikely that our ruling elite will give this a look-in, do you? This is tokenism pure and simple. bread and Circuses to pretend that we still approximate to a democracy..

Duyfken

Just another PR stunt from Cameron, as useless as his previous ploys to fob off the electorate. His greatest achievement so far is to fit perfectly into Blair's mantle.

Rhoda Klapp

Is it too early to say commenters unanimous again, Spectator gob-smacked to see this is not well thought-of, or well thought out?

wrinkled weasel

Well you have ol' rentaquote:
"The blogosphere is not an area that is open to sensible debate; it is dominated by the obsessed and the fanatical and we will get crazy ideas coming forward"

Sorry Mr Flynn, but the phrase "obsessed and fanatical" always reminds me of Gordon Brown.

And besides, this kind of frothing pizzle has been levelled at every proponent of radical ideas in history.

Labour MPs still don't get it. We don't believe in them anymore, anymore than we do the tooth fairy. They have been caught with their hands in their trousers, fondling either their cash or their baubles. Flynn still believes he is the natural arbiter of rational political process. I don't think so.

Terence Hale

Hi,
Government by signature;
In Switzerland we have direct democracy, get enough signatures and you
call a referendum. We had one about changing to clock to Summer time
with the argument the cows give less milk. Also about throwing the foreigners out
and increasing tax. Intravenous democracy in a land the size of Britain ???
REgards Dr. Terence Hale

Jayu

As long as we have 'Whipped' MPs, it will never work in practice. It's just political gimmickry.

In2minds

Government by petition, is it just dumped upon us or do we get to vote on it?

justathought

"But these latest ideas for involving voters in the legislative process could certainly provoke one or two embarrassments for our political class"

Lets face it after the past few weeks certain politicians don't need any help in that department.

Now if 'embarrassments for our political class' could be designated an Olympic sport then imagine how many gold medals we would scoop in 2012.

Nevertheless online petitions are simple cheap and effective tools for the public to vent on this or that and a useful barometer. It would be a precursor to online voting which has got to be the future system anyway.

anne allan

I hate to be negative about this idea, but experience of the last forty years, ever since the "Common Market" lies began circulating, have made me very weary and cynical about any mention of consulting the people. I just don't believe that this is anything other than window dressing. Any petition that makes real demands, rather than piffling subjects like outlawing plastic bags or offering Wayne Rooney a knighthood will be smothered at birth.
I do suspect this will be a good ploy to gather the details of anyone who disagrees with the government's (or, rather EU's) policies. The EAW is already in place, and it would be very easy to scoop up anyone who signed petitions that demanded Britain leaves Europe or cuts back on the money we pay into that organisation.

denis cooper

It was clear from the start that there was no intention to allow the petitions to have any legal effect.

Therefore they will only have any immediate practical effect when they've been started by some campaign group, usually funded by the government, in order to generate public support for a measure which the government already wants to push through.

The same with the EU-wide system set up through the EU Constitution, aka the Lisbon Treaty.

So the UK variant of the EU-wide system can very fairly be dismissed as "a gimmick to fool the people", "tokenism", "another PR stunt", "a ploy to fob off the electorate", etc ...

But, on the other hand, once in place as a sop it could eventually backfire when people try to use it, realise out that it was just intended to be a worthless sop, and demand that it be replaced by a real, legally effective, petition system.

yank

At some point, the Spectator is going to have to stop counting coup for their beloved coalition, and quit viewing all through that lens. The last sentence of that blogpost is the only one that ever seems to matter 'round these parts. The country's needs? Not so much.

If your sainted coalition is so fond of referendums, they can start with the one they past promised, re the EU.

But as a structural move, more powerful than referendum, I'd suggest an open primary process, by district. Why allow the bubble denizens to decide who'll represent you? Screw the bubble and its denizens and the mule they all rode in on.

Get to the point where your MP's are telling the Whip to sod off, and then you'll have something, at least until the bubble denizens can fully assimilate these radicals. But if the Whip owns these guys from the jump, they'll never do so. You'll have Cameroons lined up from here to Brussels, and back.

bert twigg

just caught this on the bbc news aat 1pm.The thing that spoke volumes was the beeb said it was 10,000 people who signed to get rid of G Brown.They just cant help it.
lets have a say on the bbc tax,hanging,EU,the list is endless....

David B

A system like this will be as good or bad as the people who use it. Labour want it to oppose it because they want to oppose everything the government do.

We must make it work so that at the very least MP's are aware of the issues that matter to the public

Boudicca

Nothing meaningful, that isn't already on the Government's Agenda, will ever result in a debate or new law.

The only things that might be allowed to creep through will be suggestions about such trivialities as a day for a new English Bank Holiday. If we voted for Trafalgar Day, that would be vetoed because it might annoy the French; Amarda Day would infuriate the Spanish; VE day the Germans and St George's Day won't be permitted because it will annoy the Muslims.

Our beloved Government will then decide for us and introduce EU-Day on our behalf.

TGF UKIP

The previous commentators are virtually all bang on in their cynicism in calling this for what it is, just another Cameron "Big Society" PR gimmick. All very predictable and almost as predictable as its promotion by the Speccie's gang of Cameron arselickers.

Cynic

I expect this will go the way of the "suggest laws for repeal" stunt that the Coalition started with. How long did that last? How many laws were actually repealed?

Publius

I see John Redwood has analysed what a cynical, empty gesture this is. He is right: it's just more bread and circuses.

As others have said here, the politicians already know what people want and they close ranks to prevent it.

This is just the latest manifestation of Gordon Brown's public consultations ploy.

Cabbie

Cannot now recall if Atë was one of the spirits who jumped out of Pandora's jar
but this particular folly may provide some unintentional fun.

@ Charles Hercock
yes EU withdrawal is a goer. Let's work through one draft?
Eu sceptics' petition goes viral. One million votes should be easy. The politicos
on the green benches ignore the ignorant masses. AV has been adopted as the price
for the LibDem love-in. UKIP pick up most second preferences in the new constituencies.
A UKIP- Conservative coalition. Ah but Hope was still in the jar?

This Coalition is making U-turns too soon and is starting to appear needy.
There was not even a Nativity Scene in The Commons this year!
Bercows's Office ruled that there could not be a Nativity Scene at Westminster this Christmas season.
This apparently was not further abasement to the muslim lobby for any religious reason.
They simply have not been able to find Three Wise Men in The Coalition.
The search for a Virgin continues.
There was no problem, however, finding enough asses to fill the stable. Boom Boom!

Edward

More fantasy democracy, to help hide the death of the real one.

JohnBUK

Edward, quite agree. If we'd had a vote on, EU, immigration, Human Rights, Capital Punishment, Schools et al then we wouldn't be interested in this at all.

TrevorsDen

The usual suspects come up with the usual garbage.

First of all the coalition inherited e-petitions which it has closed down and plans to move to the 'gov' site.

So given the e-petitions - then what is it to be for. The No 10 site just ignored them. Now big ones will get a debate. Is not this a good thing'? Is it not an improvement?

It never promises a change in law - it never could. If a million people petitioned for the abolition of income tax - this could never become law since there could be no agreement on what would replace it, if anything, and someone would have to be responsible for the economic chaos that would ensue .
Likewise its easy to petition about the EU - but what would replace it? Its irrational to petition something without the consequences being agreed.

These plans were in the Tory manifesto - so there is nothing PR about this - its been around for months if not years. the PR was the original labour gimmick.

Sadly the usual suspects can only answer to Dr Pavlov's bell - whereby the bell rings and the knee jerks.

I foresee all sorts of problems with the above procedure but I would love to see one asking for a Royal Commission on Anthropomorphic Global Warming.

TomTom

In May 2010 I had a vote in a General Election where NO discussion took place on a) Immigration b) EU c) Tuition Fees d) Defence Cuts e) Foreign Aid f) lots more

Yet I have a Government trebling Tuition Fees without a mandate, cutting Defence, increasing Foreign Aid etc etc.

I get NO say in a General Election but am supposed to be satisfied with the kind of lottery on legislation run by Stephen Pound and the Today Programme ?

This gets to the point of Incitement to Insurrection

David Lindsay

Being able to get your online petition debated in Parliament is a very a bad idea, which would negate much of the good done by electoral reform and by primaries for the candidates to be submitted to the reformed voting system.

It would massively favour the shoutiest and the sharpest-elbowed, the people who really do believe that Jeremy Clarkson should be Prime Minister. Many of them are now beginning, or will soon begin, a prolonged period of unemployment, during which they will have all the time in the world for online petitions.

Peter From Maidstone

I think that this is a great opportunity. It can at least provide for a way for millions to insist that their voice and opinion is taken account of, and if it is not then the Government will have to bear the consequences.

Lets get a petition going and work hard to gather as many votes as quickly as possible and complain only after nothing is done.

Trev

This is exactly what the people of this country want,and that is exactly why it will never happen!

Frank P

TrevorsDen

WTF is anthropomorphic global warming? Walt Disney has a lot to answer for, but you can't pin the IPCC scam on him.

maddy1

Well it is illegal, according to our Judges, for the majority to want our illegals cleared. It is also illegal for the Swiss to think this. Democracy is apparently illegal in the same way as it was in the Stalinist era.

Publius

TrevorsDen writes: "Likewise its easy to petition about the EU - but what would replace it?"

-- Really, this is a deeply stupid comment.

-- You know, TrevorsDen, since the election, you really have become just a cheerleader for any and every government policy. Have you ceased to think?

Occasional Ostrich

@TrevorsDen

And who would you have as president of a Royal Commission on Anthropomorphic Global Warming?

Prince Charles?

Rhoda Klapp

: "Likewise its easy to petition about the EU - but what would replace it?"

The Office of Tearing Up EU regs? Really TD I don't think you are solving the cynicism problem by this kind of naivete. Remind me of how many MPs of all parties voted against the Climate Change Act in October 2008 when snow was falling outside the house. Six, IIRC. They really haven't got a clue in there, and if we are to adopt a measure to clue them in, it will need to be one with teeth. Not something that may be dismissed with a pat on the head and a few platitudes about the man in whitehall who knows best.

Fergus Pickering

The EU would be there but we wouldn't be in it. This is perfectly possible and worth a punt, don't you think, Trevorsden? It's true we could no longer 'punch above our weight' but I think I could live with that. The Prime Minister would be less important but, do you know what, I could live with that too. My taxes would go down and that would be nice. Britain's greatness would depend upon the people. I think a lot of us are ignorant, small-minded, stupid, pettifogging and unworthy of our great past. But there's nothing to be done about that, is there? We play a mean game of cricket, though. Come next season we'll beat the Indians. Then the Proteus (why are they called that?) and we would be number one cricketing nation. Andrew Strauss could retire and be our Prime Minister. He has a loud, posh voice, according to the great Matthew Hoggard. That's at least half of what you need. And Stuart Broad would have the gay vote sewn up, at least according to Liddle.

Publius

Fergus Pickering - the Protea is South Africa's national flower. Hence the Proteas (not Proteus).

Agreed wholeheartedly on your comments re the EU.

Tony Dean

Instead of 'petitions' by the public, let's have real democracy and have a referendum each month of the year (12 a year) on all issues of concerns to the British people.
I dare this coalition nightmare of a government to do that!