Wendy Alexander adds to Brown's woes

Jonny Mac

Could be the crowning moment of what's shaping up to be the most disastrous post-war premiership since Eden's: the end of the Union.

Tiberius

Paxman extracted an answer on this from Hazel Blears last night, which clearly said our Wendy had Cabinet agreement on this.

Paul Newton

Epochal defeat! Da same feet that don't want to walk anywhere near the hustings!

James J

Will the referendum in England to see if we wish to remain in the Union be held on the same day?

Nicholas

This will be good to watch. Ten years ago I would have said preserve the Union at all costs. Today, after ten years of Scots-dominated New Labour and their constitutional tinkering I feel more ambivalent about it. I wonder whether that feeling is more general?

The mechanics will be interesting. What will qualify a person for a vote in this referendum? Nationality? How to prove it? Residence? What about all the English (and others up there) and all the Scots down here and elsewhere? What will happen to "dual-nationality" MPs like the Scots Labour MP for Norwich? Will he have to decide whether to be English or Scots and maybe pack his bags?

The good things. If the Scots vote to leave the Union they will no longer be able to blame all their woes on England and the English. They will have to find a new demon. Also, it may be a signal for all those Scots politicians who have blighted English politics to scurry off home and blight their own.

Is that too harsh?

Bruce, UK

Tiberius,

I enjoy and sometimes (often?) agree with your contributions to these comments. However, I cannot allow this latest to pass unchallenged: Blears - clearly said, since when?

John Page

What's the latest polling data from Scotland? It's claimed there's no present majority for independence. If so, doesn't Wendy's gambit look like excellent politics, cutting Salmond's time to accustom Scots to SNP government?

Old Hack

I can't help but wonder if this is all a move in an elaborate chess game to oust Brown?

Conversely Labour are utterly desperate to change the agenda?

It just be Wee Wendy being a bit 'erratic' though. Is it sexist to mention hormones?

Any way you look at it, things are getting interesting!

Fergus Pickering

Yes, it's sexist to mention hormones.

Peter Dunkley

When Brown ascended I thought that the Scottish question would be a tricky issue for him at the next election - clearly his recent antics have been a structured attempt to move the agenda onto safer ground, such as robbing the poor to reduce my taxes.

He must be thrilled to have his friends and allies working so hard for him.

I say independence for the English - hurrah!

Tiberius

Bruce: it's congratulations to Paxo for his hatchet job on her!

Ian C

I agree with John Page. Wendy A is taking the bull by the horns. She knows that the sooner the referendum, the more likely a win for the Union. Again, why did Brown not think of that? Or perhaps he did but because of the mess that is the new constitutional make up it was better to come from her. Otherwise, as an English residing Scot I feel some form of break with the Union is what will finally make Scotland grow up, face the real world and discover just how much it costs to subsidize.

EyeSee

If Scotland gets independence as opposed to the separateness they currently enjoy (which is apparently different), does that mean, at last, that all those illegitimate MP's in Westminster have to go? Such a tragic loss, who would it cull?

Austin Barry

Neither Wendy nor her brother Duggie emit wind without Gordon's imprimatur. Something is clearly afoot, quite what remains to be seen but perhaps it is the first move of some recondite gambit by McBroon.

John

Peter and Nicholas: no, not remotely too harsh. Scottish MPs with no mandate in England have been messing things up for England while Scotland was financially favoured.
Jonny, McBean is vastly more disastrous than Eden ever was.

Michael St George

Congratulations, James J, on your 9.44 comment. I am sick and tired of reading how the Scots are debating whether THEY should have a referendum on whether THEY wish to secede from or remain a member of the Union.

The continued arrogance of this position is breathtaking - the desire to enter into, or maintain, the Union is a matter for both parties to decide.

When are we English to be allowed a referendum on whether WE wish Scotland to remain in it, or whether WE wish to be rid of them so that they can become the tax'n'spend socialist incubus on Brussels that they have become on England, and which is clearly their preferred economic model?

Ian C

Paxo: "Does the Cabinet agree with her [their Wendy}?"
Blears; "Indeed".
Paxo: "Thankyou".
I understood from this that the Cabinet had agreed to her course of action, although Blears was trying to make it as unclear as she could.

Jim

Anybody know how many jobs in Scotland are closely linked to the English economy? Tax offices? Defence contractors? RAF bases etc?

Vincent Mc Dee

That's not what she said.

Abolutely hilarious. There is not a worst deaf than who does not want to hear.

Weeenglander

As a British citizen will I also get the opportunity to vote in any referendum proposing changes to the Union? Or will it, as before, be up to Scots alone to decide.

David Lindsay

Alexander is calling for an independence referendum in Scotland, believing that the No campaign would be successful. Of course it would be, which is why no such referendum will be held while there is breath in Alex Salmond's body.

But the real point is that the United Kingdom is my country, which no one has the right to take away from me. Assuming that there can be such a referendum at all (and there is a very strong case that the United Kingdom belongs to the whole British People, past, present and future), then it must be held throughout the United Kingdom acting as an indivisible whole.

There is, in point of fact, no state in the United Kingdom except the United Kingdom, and no nation except the British nation. That anyone might want something else to be the case does not make it so.

Brown effectively ruled out a referendum at today's PMQs, anyway. Will Cameron?

steve

A little off topic but I have been wondering how far the SNP can go without requiring a referendum on independence.

If I may put my policy wonk hat on. Essentially Scotland has full autonomy in the following big areas - Health, Education, Law and Order, as well as a ragbag of powers elsewhere. It has no meaningful autonomy in Foreign policy, Economic policy or defence. According to the rumbles in the press, economic policy may well be ceded to Scotland as a result of the current review. This would leave Scotland with a similiar relationship to the Union, that the Isle of Man has i.e effectively internally independent. Could the SNP go further, claiming ever greater autonomy for Scotland and slowly salami slicing away at the remaining areas until one day Scotland wakes up to find it is de facto completely independent, bar the weird anomaly of having 50 or so MPs rattling round Westminster with nothing to do.

Ben Nevis

David Lindsay, Scotland is my country, which no one has the right to take away from me, but it was taken from me long before I was born.

Like many others, I want my country back. Whether it can be recovered remains to be seen, but I trust the SNP to do the best that can be done to make it possible.

The United Kingdom is not a country. It is an anachronism.

Nicholas

Ben Nevis, England is my country, which no one has the right to take away from me, but it is being taken away from me by a government and a parliament overloaded with Scots politicians.

Like many others, I want my country back. Whether it can be recovered remains to be seen, but I do not trust the PLP to do anything that could be done to make it possible.

The United Kingdom was a country. New Labour, Scottish hostility towards England and the EU have turned it into an anachronism.

Max Kaye

A David Lindsay joke: "Once there was a Britishman... (or is that a United Kindom-man?) ...no Englishman, no Scotsman, no Welshman and no Irishman...."

Jessica

We English should also be allowed to vote on whether we want to end the union as well. We the English are 80% of the Union , yet we are treated like second class citizens.