Cameron signs up to muscular liberalism
Peter Hoskin 10:42am
"State multiculturalism has failed." Angela Merkel put voice to that sentiment last October. Now it David Cameron's turn to do the same. In a speech in Munich today, the Prime Minister has taken a rhetorical torch to
Islamic extremism. "Frankly," he says, "we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism." It is, at the very least, a
significant political moment.
What Cameron is doing here – as explained by Charles Moore and Paul Goodman – is publicly signing up to a philosophy of the world. It is a philosophy that rejects the idea that extremism should simply be contained. Instead, it says that extremism must be fought – and that means engaging in a battle of ideas. "Tough on extremism, tough on the causes of extremism," is how Tony Blair might have put it. "This is the battle that must be won, a battle not just about the terrorist methods but their views. Not just their barbaric acts, but their barbaric ideas. Not only what they do but what they think and the thinking they would impose on others," is how Tony Blair did put it.
The policies for waging this battle are varied and, in many cases, indirect. Immigration, schooling, even housing – all have an impact in this area. But there are also specific instances where this government should make its thinking clear. From deciding which organisations to engage with, to – yes – what should be said in speeches; all this matters. Cameron's words today suggest that he recognises this. If groups and people fail the tests of liberal society, he argues, "the presumption should be not to engage with [them]. No public money. No sharing of platforms with Ministers at home. At the same time, we must stop these groups from reaching people in publicly funded institutions."
Whether this will cohere into an effective stand against extremism, we shall see. There are several barriers in Cameron's way, including political divides and general state inertia. And the government must also take care to target genuine extremists and their poisonous ideology, rather than stoking paranoia and fear all round. But our Prime Minister has set out his approach today. He is, it seems, determined to act against homegrown terror in all its manifestations. Which is to say: passivity no more; muscular liberalism from here on in.
Previous
In2minds
February 5th, 2011 11:01am Report this commentToo much Germany. Why did Cameron make the speech in Munich, Manchester would have been better? There's a worrying double message here. I don't want Islamic extremism but I don't want a double dollop of the EU either. The idea that we can only deal with this problem 'together' for example. Far too much PR, again, from Cameron.
Neil Turner
February 5th, 2011 11:02am Report this commentI presume then that DC will start walking the talk with an immediate ban on all militant Islamist media or fund-raising organisation based in the UK ?
He could also come down like a ton of bricks on those militant Islamists marching in Luton today (Saturday)
Don't hold your breath....
bob
February 5th, 2011 11:13am Report this comment"hear,hear,hear" AT last,we fight back.god bless uk,bob
Austin Barry
February 5th, 2011 11:15am Report this commentOk. so now take some concrete action: ban the burqua, close any mosques that house hate-mongering Imans and fire Baroness Warsi.
Edward McLaughlin
February 5th, 2011 11:16am Report this commentSame old, same old mixture of blindness and subterfuge.
Islamic extremism, although a dreadful entity to have - under the aegis of 'liberalism' - admitted into our country, is not the force which is most effectively making use of the tenets of multiculturalism to radically change the nation into something which is alien to its own history and tradition.
This massive and rapid change is being undertaken by people who do not engage in bombings and the like. And they are being allowed to do this because they choose to have the babies that tomorrow needs, and to bring them up in their own way; while we prefer to sluice our future into abortion buckets and have done on a daily basis for decades.
The penis, mightier than the sword... and all that.
David Lindsay
February 5th, 2011 11:16am Report this comment"Combat extremism in all its forms". Well said, David Cameron.
You could start with Johanna Kaschke. Kaschke is late of Respect and before that (or was it?) of the Communist Party. She left Labour in 2007 after having failed to secure its nomination for Bethnal Green & Bow, and she ended that year by joining the Conservative Party, in which she has rapidly become quite a well-connected activist. Ms Kaschke maintains that alluding to her past brands her "a crazy lefty".
If she is, then she has joined the right party, and it is no wonder that she is doing so well in it. In fact, the entire SWP faction of Respect in her own Tower Hamlets not long ago defected thereto after having fallen out with the Islamists. Around the country, local factions of various Asian and other origins routinely defect from Labour or other things to the Conservatives on frankly communal grounds, and are always welcomed with open arms.
But of course they are. It was your vehicles, David Cameron, that toured Ealing Southall blasting out in Asian languages that Hindu, Muslim and Sikh festivals would be made public holidays under the Tories. It was your "Quality of Life Commission" (don't laugh, it's real) that then proposed giving the power to decide these things to "local community leaders". What else would those figures be given the power to decide in return for filling in every postal voting form in their households in the Bullingdon Boys' interest, and making sure that all their mates did likewise? To the statelets thus created – little Caliphates, little Hindutvas, little Khalistans, and so on – people minded to live in such places would flock from the ends of the earth, entrenching the situation forever.
The Conservative Party recently welcomed, with some fanfare, John Marek, who was fiercely anti-monarchist and anti-hunting while Labour MP for Wrexham, and who went on to become the founder and only ever Leader of Forward Wales, a Welsh separatist, Welsh-speaking supremacist, economically Hard Left, unyieldingly Politically Correct, Tommy Sheridan-endorsed, RMT-funded party which was only dissolved in January of this year. Marek's House of Commons pass still gives his party as Forward Wales, and all of this is very well worth bearing in mind when reading, for example, attacks on Ken Livingstone's links to the RMT, which has not been affiliated to the Labour Party for a good many years.
So, David Cameron, will you also be recruiting, if you have not already done so, Marek's fellow founder-members of Forward Wales: Ron Davies, one of the very few former Cabinet Ministers without a seat in either House, and a noted campaigner both against shooting and for the abolition of the monarchy, recalling Marek's own parliamentary question to Tony Blair requesting that the Oath of Allegiance be replaced with something acceptable to anti-monarchists; Graeme Beard, a former Plaid Cymru councillor in Caerphilly; and Klaus Armstrong-Braun, who in his time on Flintshire County Council was the only Green Party member ever elected at county level in Wales? You have already signed up Mohammad Asghar, a Member of the Welsh Assembly who has moved seamlessly from Plaid Cymru to the Cameroons.
And so on, and on, and on, and on, and on. They obviously find the 1980s Radical Right's company as congenial as they find each other's. As well they might. Eighty per cent of Conservative MPs in the last Parliament were, and at alesat the percentage today are, paid-up and paid members of the party that now sits in government with those who want to denaturalise Arabs and Haredim, with those who believe that it is a sin and ought to be a crime to rent property to an Arab, and with those who believe that the Gentiles were only created as beasts of burden, all views also held well within the activist base and the core electorate of the party to which all those scores of your own MPs belong, David Cameron.
Blue is the new Red-Brown.
Neil Turner
February 5th, 2011 11:19am Report this commentThe word "Islam" means submission
The stated aim of Islam is to subdue the World, through terrorism if necessary. Those Muslims that don't hold these views do nothing to stop those that do
Our country is being subverted from the inside out by the axis of Islam and the hard left. I include in the hard left those from New Labour, LibDems, and the majority of the media, particularly the BBC
I believe we are past the tipping point in this country, where most "normal" Brits feel totally alienated and misrepresented by Government and Public bodies such as the Police
In 1938 politicians didn't believe that Hitler meant what he said. The same naievity inhibits their thinking now
Cameron is rearranging deck chairs
toco
February 5th, 2011 11:27am Report this commentAfter years of pandering by Blair,Brown,Straw and Harman to inappropriate entrants to the British community finally we have someone who is honest enough to say all are welcome provided they contribute to the financial and moral wellbeing of our country.No more handouts to economic immigrants and their families but please come if you are able to contribute to the greater good and play an honest and positive role as a British citizen.In many respects it is a more elegant version of Norman Tebbit's cricket test.
Nicholas
February 5th, 2011 11:32am Report this commentBut the questions are, as always
1. Will actions follow words?
2. Will the "muscular liberalism" be directed at the right targets or, as so frequently in recent year, seek to punish the majority for the sins of the few, attempt to crack a nut with a sledgehammer, etc., etc.?
3. Will it become just another vehicle for more EU/wet/New Labour type nannyism?
4. Will the definition of extremism be stretched to include the foaming Islamophobics? You know those dastardly and intolerable right wingers who dare to protest about The Way Things Are Going and who plot to blow up innocent people and behead them - or who seek to put out death contracts on people writing books or drawing cartoons.
And lastly,
5. Can the wet, infantilised, girly-men populated, quangocised and fake-charitied, predominantly left-wing and champagne socialist infested British establishment and all its ghastly infrastructure really, really, really be persuaded to give up its love affair with turning Britain into a male-hating Noah's Ark of third world nations, a Babel of languages and a Temple to Political Correctness Gone Mad? I doubt it. Too many vested interests, too many fat sinecures and too many Gramsci established blocs.
Muscular and robust are not words I associate with Cameron or Britain, except when it comes to pursuing projects of folly or appeasement. The coalition's extraction of our military and naval teeth was certainly robust and muscular.
Cosmic Elms
February 5th, 2011 11:36am Report this commentWhat a dick
Really proving he's a white liberal all the way!
Sound like he researched the speech on Wikipedia!
As for Merkel , maybe she want to buy Egypt with Euros another excuse of tosser!
Vulture
February 5th, 2011 11:51am Report this commentOne of the ostriches making up Europe's politicaol elite has withdrawn his head from the sand, taken a look around and not liked the situation he sees.
There are several problems with Cameron's admirable sounding words - apart from the 'state inertia' that you mention Pete, (which is presumably code for the entrenched bureaucracy, not least in the judiciary which has been forcing multi culturalism down reluctant throats for a generation).
The major problem is the artificial divide that Dave thinks exists between Islam and 'Islamism'. That is illusoryy - they are one and the same. Islam in any form despises other Faiths as 'dhimmis', spreads itself by the sword, punished apostasy weith death, is incompatible with democracy, freedom of thought and expression, secularism, other Faiths, feminism, homosexuality, and (not least)
liberalism of any sort, muscular or otherwise. Inconvenient truths to be sure - but truths nonetheless.
Either our sort of society will prevail, or Islam will - there is no compromise, no middle way, and all the recent battles have been won by Islam because our ruling caste refguses to admit we are in a kulturkampf that will soon become a real war.
They are the people who have invited the Islamic Trojan Horse inside our walls.
I forsee one of two things happening: either a mass expulsion of this alien import on the lines of Ferdinand and Isabella's Reconquest of Spain, or the British departure from India or the Pied Noir exit from Algeria. Or a Muslim takeover of Britain.
It could go either way - there are stirrings of native resistance,- (witness the English Defence League rally in Luton today)- but at the moment my money is on the more fanatical and determined team winning.
One thing is certain - and credit to Dave for at least temporarioly recognising it - we are not going to settle down and live cosily together in a big happy family.
IT really is them or us.
strapworld
February 5th, 2011 12:06pm Report this commentAnalyse his words. Will he abandon the Human Rights Act, so we can throw out terrorists? NO! Will he now ban any muslim group? Of course not.
No, he is telling everyone to live together.
Perhaps he will invite half of Leeds to move to Oxfordshire then, but I doubt that.
We are all in this together, well us lot are, but his lot most certainly are not.
What a pity he didn't inwardly digest what the Australian Premier said (for the second time)."IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '
"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'
'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!'
'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."
This was another missed opportunity by our weak prime minister.
TonyT
February 5th, 2011 12:30pm Report this commentHow does the Charity Commission justify the registration of any Islamic body. This might be a good place to start
Colin
February 5th, 2011 12:33pm Report this commentNext...
Mhairi M
February 5th, 2011 12:37pm Report this commentThat's clever Mr Cameron. Announcing a rather 'extremist' policy around race (following his bordering on t4 policies around people with long-term health conditions) at a 'security' conference in Germany.
Its no so much what he's saying as what he isn't, and where its getting said that are the most worry aspects of this Governments ideology.
Interesting that in contextualising this issues, Mr Neil Turner and other Spectator readers forget to mention
1) that the English Defense League (an extremist organisation if ever there was one) is marching in Luton today
2) there are certainly some serious similarities between Mr Cameron's statements and a certain German leader - much more so than the fundamentalist spouting of a handful of radicalised teenagers in the Midlands.
Which is more dangerous. A kid with access to the internet and no chance of employment or a Old Etonian with access to nuclear weapons!?
Rhoda Klapp
February 5th, 2011 12:47pm Report this commentWhoa. If I understood his words correctly, and there is every chance that I did not as any Cameron speech is always hard to analyze, then he is decrying non-violent extremism and vowing to do something about it. And saying just because you don't break the law that doesn't mean you are not extreme. Well, hold on. Non-violent extremism is legal. Any suppression of it would not be, and if such laws were enacted they would be the greatest instrument of repression imaginable. We are free to be extreme. I'd rather a few unpleasant folk preaching daft things than lose that freedom. With the wrong government in power, anything can be painted as extreme. Did we not have enough restriction of freedom under the last lot? What good did it do? Which bits have been repealed, as promised?
In purely practical terms, one does not need to be such a keen observer of history as all that to notice that extreme violent movements usually have a political wing detached from the violence. Every IRA has a Sinn Fein. In the case of Islam, these things are not always so clear, but it seems to me that there will always be some outfit which decries the violence and the more extreme views and sets up as a moderate voice of the community, or some such. That outfit will always be either set up on purpose as a pose, or if genuine will be penetrated by the others. Usually this is the outfit which our government in its wisdom allows to receive funding to encourage moderation.
One gets the impression that whatever Cameron says, first of all he lacks the will to really tackle the problem, and if by some miracle he had that will, the usual suspects would torpedo any initiative to fix it. In fact I rather doubt that he could even express what the problem is, in concrete terms, without trouble.
ollie
February 5th, 2011 1:06pm Report this commentOutraged Muslims keep banging on about the EDL. Big difference - the EDL don't use suicide bombers to force their point of view.
Verityred
February 5th, 2011 1:20pm Report this commentLindsay - Do stop cut and pasting babble from your looney tune blog dear.
davidk
February 5th, 2011 1:37pm Report this commentTory PM slams Islam and attacks multiculturalism.
Hold the front page, the Nsty Party has spoken.
David Lindsay
February 5th, 2011 1:43pm Report this commentNote that it is Verityred who comes to Cameron's defence.
Is this "combating extremism"?
The War Party has no problem with ghastly dictatorships. It has no problem with Islamists, including in Europe, and indeed in the Iraq where such forces have been unleashed by its actions. And it has no problem with Ba'athists, cheerfully encouraging and assisting the People's Mojahedin of Iran (PMOI or MEK, but they are the same organisation) that moved during the Iran-Iraq War to Saddam Hussein's Iraq, which until its own overthrow in 2003 provided most of the PMOI's money and all of its military assistance.
No, it is not made up of Arabs, and Ba'athism is supposed to be a form of Arab nationalism, founded, like so many such forms, by a Christian. But if there are Russian Nazis, increasingly in Israel because at least they are not Arabs, then there may as well also be Persian Ba'athists. And there are. In fact, in backing both the PMOI and Jundullah, the neocons are backing both the Ba'athists and the Sunni Islamists in relation to the same country. But it is that country. So that's all right, then. Isn't it?
In a comment on an earlier post on my blog, one Campion asked, "Who has Cameron's "fundamental British values"? Do orthodox Catholics? Do mainline Evangelicals? Do traditionalist Anglicans? Do black Pentecostals? Who decides, and how?" We must hope to God that it is not decided by Struan Stevenson MEP.
strapworld
February 5th, 2011 1:44pm Report this commentVerityred, thanks for the tip. I enjoy Lindsay's writing.
yank
February 5th, 2011 2:14pm Report this commentRhoda Klapp
February 5th, 2011 12:47pm
"One gets the impression that whatever Cameron says, first of all he lacks the will to really tackle the problem, and if by some miracle he had that will, the usual suspects would torpedo any initiative to fix it. In fact I rather doubt that he could even express what the problem is, in concrete terms, without trouble."
.
Well said that person, who is a credit to his/her respective gender/sexual persuasion/national origin/religious denomination/political preference, which are all worthy of being celebrated and state-supported.
But let's make sure we lock out the bewhiskered koran burners. They must be muscularly and liberally silenced, I'm sure we'd all agree.
I mean, let's be clear. When we say "muscular liberalism", we're talking about a proper state role here. There'll be none of this foolish "liberalism" that you all learnt in your dusty old tomes. It's a new "Big Society" version. We know what it is, so you all need not worry.
So relax.
Oh, and ignore those ghettos we've created. You'll get used to them, in due muscular-liberal time.
(And many thanks to our focus groups and targeted polling operation, for the rhetorical constructions and rollout of this, our latest marketing masterpiece.)
Verityred
February 5th, 2011 2:16pm Report this commentStrapworld - good for you, you can now read Mr Lindsay's babble both on his lonely blog, and on this site. Good old cut and paste.
Victor Southern
February 5th, 2011 3:00pm Report this commentM. Mhairi @ 12.37
It is not Cameron who proposes to act like a "certain German leader" as you so delicately put it. That leader had an entire philosophy based on racial and religious separation whereas Cameron is calling for integration irrespective of race and religion.
If we wish to examine and name the 30 most intolerant and undemocratic regimes in the world a substantial proportion of those will be countries where Islam is the main or only permitted faith.
How many Christian churches or Jewish synagogues in Saudi Arabia? Do you know that Christians or Jews may not even enter Mecca.
How many absolute monarchies are there in the world today? Apart from Swaziland they are all Arab states. And as we know the current struggles for change in North Africa and the Middle East result from Dictators for Life ruling most of the countries, some by dynastic succession.
The United Kingdom is a democracy, the Mother of Parliaments where every registered adult citizen - including women - can vote at regular intervals for representatives to that Parliament.
We understand that democracy is not a plant that will thrive within Islam but Muslims who come here are obliged to adhere to our democratic and legal processes. If they admire Sharia law they have a great many choices of country in which to live. This is not one of them.
justathought
February 5th, 2011 3:26pm Report this commentI have just tried out this new Pickles system using this handy link
http://local.direct.gov.uk/LDGRedirect/index.jsp?LGSL=1465&LGIL=8
Sure enough Tower Hamlets Chief Executive directorate is spending (Dec 2010) £12,500 per month on the Osmani Trust and another £12,500 for the Al-Huda Mosque.
Publius
February 5th, 2011 3:57pm Report this comment@justathought
-- Thanks for that link. Bad for the blood pressure. Just looked at my own local council. Grants to Wimmin and other trendy political causes where the council has no business. Firework displays. Theatre events. Huge CCTV costs. Endless expenditure classified as "unallocated items".
Chris
February 5th, 2011 4:08pm Report this commentDAvid Lindsay, you're very vain if you think that identifying you as an egregious tit is to be equated with defending Cameron.
Shazza
February 5th, 2011 4:20pm Report this commentSpot on Vulture.
Verity
February 5th, 2011 4:28pm Report this commentCameron's hiding behind Merkel's skirts.
Cheap little wanker.
TomTom
February 5th, 2011 4:30pm Report this commentCameron NEVER says that when he goes to Bradford. There he praises multiculturalism. One day all of Britain will be like Bradford
Verity
February 5th, 2011 4:31pm Report this commentI am falling in love with Eric Pickles, the only real man in this girly, submissive, spread-legged government.
They make the Bercow{s wife look like a nun.
David Lindsay
February 5th, 2011 4:34pm Report this commentFrom time to time, most recently here and here, I can also be read on The American Conservative’s Post-Right blog, to which I was originally recruited by Freddy Gray, now of this parish.
Verity
February 5th, 2011 4:44pm Report this commentMhairi M - "That's clever Mr Cameron. Announcing a rather 'extremist' policy around race...".
What race would that be? Do you know the difference between "race" and "religion"? Race is genetic. Religion is by free choice.
Verity
February 5th, 2011 4:51pm Report this commentThe Ozzie PM rocks! That speech she gave has been emailed over all the internet. I have received it from friends in three different countries.
Revolution is in air!!!!!!!
Verity
February 5th, 2011 5:02pm Report this commentI've got The Beach Boys on at top volume (mainly to irritate my neighbours) and feel FREEEEEEE!
"Little Deuce Coup", "California Girls", "Fun, Fun, Fun", "Sloop John B", "Surfin' USA", "Help, Help Me, Rhonda", "Good Vibrations".
I'm in denial!
I absolutely loathe David Cameron. We need the PM of Oz over in Britain.
Cynic
February 5th, 2011 5:11pm Report this commentI notice Cameron sought to make a distinction between Islam as a faith and "extremist Islam" as a political ideology. Clearly he's never read the Qu'ran. There is no separation of Mosque and State in Islam. Neil Turner has it right; Islam means submission. Its aim is a Caliphate and there are no equal rights for kuffirs (infidels). At least Cameron has (belatedly) woken up to how destructive multiculturalism has been, but unless he does something to positively reverse it and actively enshrine the supremacy of the indigenous culture over that of all incomers it will be like all his other posturings - mere talk.
Malcolm Redfellow
February 5th, 2011 5:12pm Report this commentHold on a Moment!
This afternoon's bit of excitement was caused by the EDL tarting their muttons through the streets of Luton. It took a thousand decent coppers being muscular to assure liberal freedom of speech and assembly. At a cost of £800,000.
Anything "extremist" there?
English Electric
February 5th, 2011 5:26pm Report this commentThe problem is, multi-culturalism and 'diversity' is alive-and-well in every area of the public sector at local levels. There needs to be a strong lead on this or the public sector will carry on with the orthodoxy.
For example, local authorities should not be spending money on translation services but will continue to do so. This demotion of English needs to be stopped.
Occasional Ostrich
February 5th, 2011 5:29pm Report this commentCameron's hiding behind Merkel's skirts.
We-ell, at least it's better than underneath them?
Verityred
February 5th, 2011 6:07pm Report this commentAdjust the dose Verity, you've utterly lost it.
Fergus Pickering
February 5th, 2011 6:16pm Report this commentVerity, you have five posts in quick succession about Cameron. You've obviously got the hots for him in spades, but it's no good, girl. He's married and a gentleman. Perhaps Boris might....
Verity
February 5th, 2011 6:46pm Report this commentFor some impoverished attention-seeker who styles itself verityred: I usually ignore it but, pumped up by The Beach Boys and endomorphins derived therefrom, I'll note that as a passenger on someone else's name, you never fail to fail.
Plse stop advising on "upping the meds", etc. It was dated five years ago. Now, it's got a beard.
Here's a blog name for you that fits like a glove: "Day Late And A Dollar Short".
Verity
February 5th, 2011 6:52pm Report this commentCynic - David Cameron is possibly the most ignorant prime minister we've ever had.
English Electric - D'acuerdo. We've got the biggest language in the history of the human race. Maybe it's too big for Dave to get his strange, squishy head round. Perhaps, if he stuffed any more words in, those funny jelly eyes would pop out.
David Lindsay
February 5th, 2011 7:04pm Report this commentMalcolm Redfellow, aren't policing costs met by the home team? In that case, bill the EDL. They are the home team. Aren't they?
Does David Cameron propose structured daily prayer, the setting aside one day in seven, fasting, almsgiving, pilgrimage, the global community of faith as the primary focus of personal allegiance and locus of personal identity, the lesser outward and greater inward struggle, a comprehensive and coherent critique of both capitalism and Marxism, the coherence between faith and reason, a consequent integrated view of art and science, Sacred Tradition as the answer to the challenge of the Sunna, the Petrine Office as the answer to the challenge of the Imamate, and our own traditions of mysticism and monasticism as the answer to the challenge of Sufism, all derived from the foundation of our civilisation by, in, through and as the recapitulation in Jesus Christ and His Church of all three of the Old Israel, Hellenism and the Roman Empire?
Or does David Cameron propose the rootless, godless, globalised, hypercapitalist, metrosexual wasteland of usury, promiscuity and stupefaction, imposed by force of arms? If this latter is what he means by "the West", then those of us who hold to the former definition must and do hate it as much as any Islamist. Yet those who hold to that toxic neoconservative definition are fulsome in their praise of Cameron's speech. The more enthusiastically supported by that pseudo-West is a regime or movement that is Islamic, Middle Eastern or both, then the more hostile it is to Christians: Pakistan, Turkey, the Gulf monarchies, Mubarak's Egypt, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya and the wider Russian Caucasus, Israel, "liberated" Iraq.
Whereas the more hostile the pseudo-West is, the better the relations with those who embody the Biblical-Classical synthesis in Christ: the Christian-majority provinces and the Christian festivals as public holidays in Syria, the reserved Assyrian and Armenian parliamentary representation in Iran, Lebanon in general and the new governing coalition in particular, the seats for Christians in Palestine east of the Jordan (the present Hashemite Kingdom), the Christian quota for the Palestinian Authority, Iraq before 2003. All in all, a government including the Muslim Brotherhood, which freely accepts that it will never govern alone, by no means augurs ill for the Copts, who have hardly had it easy under a "key Western ally". And all in all, it is no wonder that the most vociferous opponents of neoconservatism, on both sides of the Atlantic, have been and are traditional Catholics.
Verity
February 5th, 2011 7:31pm Report this commentFergus Pickering - V good! I laughed so loud and suddenly my cat jumped up and ran out of the room.
Verity
February 5th, 2011 7:38pm Report this commentPS - Fergus P - if you'd had a chance to see the post that got cruelly spiked, I think that would have knocked your delusion for six.
(I still don't see what was wrong with it. I thought this forum was about opinions. Perhaps the wording was a little harsh ...).
TGF UKIP
February 5th, 2011 7:50pm Report this comment"Cameron signs up to muscular liberalism" Ho, ho, ho!
"Instead it says that extremism must be fought - and that means engaging in a battle of ideas." Come on Pete, the Speccie's hero Dave actually engaging in a battle of ideas, that's almost side-splittingly amusing.
On the other hand "Cameron signs up to Metropolitan liberalism" would have been bang on - just ask Peter Oborne:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100074678/david-cameron-has-caved-in-to-those-waging-war-against-the-family/
Tiberius
February 5th, 2011 8:02pm Report this commentVerityred: I think we can assume that the top from the bottle of gin has been binned.
TrevorsDen
February 5th, 2011 9:09pm Report this comment41 comments at time of writing - its easy top see what exercises people's emotions. it certainly brings out the gibbering idiot - see David Lindsay for one but Verity has clearly gone bonkers.
Perry
February 5th, 2011 9:12pm Report this commentToo little.
Too late.
Daedalus
February 5th, 2011 9:21pm Report this commentMulticulturisim on its way out? GOOD!!!!!!!!!!
Daedalus
daniel maris
February 5th, 2011 10:08pm Report this commentI did spot Verity's post that mysteriously disappeared. I wondered at the time I noticed it whether to express my surprise that it had been allowed.
Not surprised because it was untrue, libellous, obscene or anything like that. It was the truth, and what it described is celebrated as the truth by Islam's clerics (e.g. on the Shia side, Ayatollah Khomeini never felt the need to cover it up).
The fact that the Spectator won't allow these historically true statements to be made tells us something about the craven nature of our political culture and these little paper noises from Mr. Cameron do nothing to change that.
(Incidentally, the fact that most of Verity's output is wrong or ridiculous or both is neither here nor there with regard to this issue.)
victor jara 67
February 5th, 2011 10:27pm Report this commentThere were quite a few Israeli flags at the EDL rally today in Luton. Do you think this kind of multi-cultarism is okay? Or that Zionism has just found its ideological home within fascism.
Darby
February 5th, 2011 10:29pm Report this commentI do not believe Dave will tackle the issue, all hes trying to do is calm down the masses ala Thatcher and the "swamped" comments.
Its really simple Dave, if you want less radicalism stop importing it and start returning it to sender.
Midlander
February 5th, 2011 10:34pm Report this commentSome good passages and a lot of context.
Who are these Muslim groups who have had copious public funding and not said no to extremism? Until they are named this is a just a sound bite; unless of course he means ACF, Salaam Project and a few others. PVE has really spent very little on non-state bodies.
My biggest objection is this speech should have been delivered here and not at an international conference on terrorism in Munich. This speech should have been in Parliament, followed by a debate and far more detail given.
After a few months in 2005 few politicians were directly engaged in what is primarily an ideological struggle. Instead they opted to use an institutional approach first, with very little community involvement. Read the Commons DCLG Select Committee Report on what actually happened and the ICSR report on prisons.
Oh yes, local government and in particular the police became active partners - the least capable and willing bodies to participate in an ideological contest.
Hopefully the PM will upon his return add to his speech the actual details.
Austin Barry
February 5th, 2011 11:32pm Report this commentI'm not sure what other Coffeehousers imagine, but I see Verity as a languid Dorothy Parker type smoking Disque Bleu through a long holder and eyeing the pool boy in his Lycra budgie -smugglers with a certain intent. Then, as she strolls to the fridge for more ice she sees a photo of Cameron in a two-day copy of the Mail and waves two fingers at him. Then she starts to blog: "Cameron is a limp-wristed tool of common purpose ....". Frankly, I think she should be made a dame and run for office ... more power to her...
Frank P
February 6th, 2011 2:09am Report this commentVerity.
Your Aussie PM, I'm afraid to say, speaketh with forked tongue. She grabbed that message from her predecessor, Kevin Rudd, after she stabbed him in the back. She is a far left, Welsh emigre; a Gramscian product if ever there was one. A Union stooge. A climate change freak. She is saying what the sheep-shaggers* want to hear about immigration - it's a vote catcher. I doubt she means a word of it.
* Q. What's Australian foreplay?
A. Shearing.
Verity
February 6th, 2011 2:10am Report this comment"My biggest objection is this speech should have been delivered here and not at an international conference on terrorism in Munich. This speech should have been in Parliament, followed by a debate and far more detail given."
Absolutely, Midlander!
Dave's not only a coward, but he is now cosying up to Merkel, who made a similar statement a few days ago and it was received well. So Dave's got another train to jump on. The Merkel Train!
Why doesn't he make his announcements of British Government policies in, errr ... Britain in .... err ... the British Parliament?
One more thing to remember about Dave.
Verityred
February 6th, 2011 7:20am Report this commentPoor old Verity, in the sober light of day you can read all the drivel you posted and vow, yet again, to keep of the sauce..doesn't mix well with the pills dear.
TomTom
February 6th, 2011 8:32am Report this comment"Religion is by free choice"
No Verity you err. Islam has no baptism and children are born Muslim to Muslims. It is automatic and hereditary
Edward McLaughlin
February 6th, 2011 8:50am Report this commentvictorjara67
"There were quite a few Israeli flags at the EDL rally today in Luton. Do you think this kind of multi-cultarism [sic] is okay?"
Fine and dandy on account of the fact that they pass the 'don't bomb the indigenes' test. And so much more.
Clear Memories
February 6th, 2011 9:59am Report this commentFrank P
February 6th, 2011 2:09am
Sorry Frank, but you know nothing.
Australian definition of foreplay:-
Q. Hey Sheila, d'ya fancy a shag?
A. No thanks Bruce, ya smooth bastard.
Q. Well d'ya mind lyin' down while I have one?
Greetings from wet and windy Queensland. Pray for us for deliverence from the Welsh-devolved cow.
victor jara 67
February 6th, 2011 1:20pm Report this comment@Edward Mcglauglin
No they are preoccupied with bombing and killing the indigies in the middle east.
TGF UKIP
February 6th, 2011 1:25pm Report this commentWorth noting the absence of any defence or response by the CH Editor and Censor, Pete Hoskin, to the point made by Daniel Maris at 10.08 pm last night.
Oh and as to why Munich, well Dave has form here. His big foreign and security speech a couple of years ago, realigning Tory policy to a European rather than transatlanctic basis, was delivered in Bonn. We should never forget what instinctively good Europeans One Continent Tories, like our Dave, are.
yank
February 6th, 2011 2:14pm Report this comment* Q. What's Australian foreplay?
A. Shearing.
.
Frank,
The censor let this sheep one through, but mine concerning camels didn't make it. I think the Spectator is speciesist!
chevron
February 6th, 2011 2:23pm Report this comment"Religion is by free choice"
Ans. "Islam has no baptism and children are born Muslim to Muslims. It is automatic and hereditary"
Indeed. Just like Judaism, which is the main reason why it has been designated by the courts as a race, rather than a religion (it is quite possible - yet rare - to convert and 'join' the race). "Atheist Jew" is not a contradiction, just as an atheist Muslim remains Muslim (in the eyes of the faithful) even if expressing the atheism bit would be suicidal.
To avoid a double-standard of definition, do we not have to designate Islam a race, then, rather than a religion? It seems less unreasonable to redesignate Judaism as a religion, to be honest, but then what happens to their ancient race-based claim over Israel? Quite a can-of-worms!
Instead of "race", a better term might be "way of life" for both? But that term doesn't justify the territorial claims of either ...
Greg Splatter
February 6th, 2011 4:26pm Report this commentThe term 'muscular liberalism' has a suspiciously homoerotic feel about it. Perhap Cameron is considering tearing off his shirt to reveal the full might of his bulk, greasing himself up and flexing his muscles by headlocking extremists?
On a more serious note, the English Defence League and other fascist upstarts would still exist within the framework of a Cameron revised multiculturalism so is the message from the PM that its okay to so commit hate crimes in the name of Britain but against Britain? Does he not realise that by not mentioning any other form of extremism other than the Islamic kind he has played into the hands of the Far Right. This is so much so that they are championing his speech. Moron.
Edward McLaughlin
February 6th, 2011 6:24pm Report this commentGreg Splatter
Do you honestly believe that there is not a meaningful distinction to be made between the levels and brands of extremism which exist in the world right now?
In other words: what other extremist organisations, in your view, pose serious risks to national and international security?
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