How the West became so dominant

Charles

Also whether the loss of point (6) the work ethic / Protestant Christian framework undermines the whole project.

This is what Samuel Huntington was getting at with the "Clash of Civilizations": that the West is its own worst enemy.

Baron

rather like Niall Ferguson, but he picked the wrong end of the stick here. How the West became so dominant ain’t the big ask, how it became so fugging flabby is.

George Laird

Dear All

"Niall Ferguson has a zippy essay in The Times today previewing his forthcoming TV series and book on why the West became so dominant over the past 600 years".

I would say it could be shortened to killing people and occupying their countries.

That is why the West is so dominant.

Hardly worth an essay and tv series is it.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Fergus Pickering

Whatever happens we have got
The Maxim gun and they have not.

Who wrote this splendid couplet?

porkbelly

Striking how each of these has been under sustained attack from the Left for the past several decades. Western civilization, having achieved great success is eating itself from within, just as the Romans did.

Nick Kaplan

George Laird

How is it that the West became able occupy those countries which in many cases (Britain in India for instance, or Portugal in Brazil) were much larger and better endowed with natural resources?

The answer of course is that the West was far more advanced than these countries long before it ever invaded any of them, thus demonstrating the contradiction inherent in your argument.

Baron

Fergus, my blogging friend, a word into your ear, the one still capable of hearing. Any time you want to find something google it, you’ll be surprised how quickly you can educate yourself.

More to the point: The West has Maxims galore, it hasn’t got the guts to use them, you know.

Rhoda Klapp

Reliable ocean navigation and the will/incentive to use it. The invention of the body corporate. Not buying that work ethic thing, or any link to protestantism per se.

Anan

Oh dear, looks like someone trying to whitewash a barbaric history of pillage, enslavement and rape of innocent peoples, along with a worrying hint of western superiority complex. "West vs. the Rest" indeed! We are beyond that time folks.

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion, but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do" -- Samuel P Huntington. The master says it best.

DAVID VNTER

The protestant work ethic had alot to do with the fact that in the middle ages in northern europe that if you didn't get your harvest of grain into a dry store by october there was a good chance that you would die of starvation during a cold winter. Therefore you worked ever hour of dry fine weather, not knowing what tomorrow would bring!

Bonzodog

And as for George Laird himself

http://councillorterrykelly.blogspot.com/2010/05/george-laird-of-glasgow-university.html is entertaining

Edward McLaughlin

Fergus Pickering

Kipling?

George Laird

Grow up before it's too late.

salieri

Fergus, it was Hilaire Belloc.

No doubt the series will produce many vigorous reminders - possibly even from Glasgow University - that it was the Arab world that left the west far behind intellectually and scientifically during the early Middle Ages.

And the fact that in the 8 centuries since then the Arab world's contribution to the sum of mankind's achievements has been bugger-all will not be mentioned.

Fex Urbis

When is someone going to do a programme on how it all went so very wrong?

Andrew SW18

One tiny but overlooked innovation that underpinned the rise of the Anglo-West was the concept of HM'S Loyal Opposition - institutionalised dissent.

One Party States (left or right), based on Winner-takes-all-kills-others, struggle to deal with opposition, as North Africa and the Middle East currently demonstrate (not neglecting Cote D'Ivoire). And where the British Empire presumed otherwise things fell apart pretty smartly - the American Colonies first, but the non-white Dominions later.

Thus S African medical prowess in heart transplants (Ferguson Test 4) didn't save Apartheid.

The bipolar elite of the 18th and 19th Centuries wasn't ideal, but it spared Great Britain from the convulsions of 1789 and 1848, and the absence of structured Opposition helps explain the ructions we see this weekend.

(and @Fergus Pickering, Chesterton, I think)

Cynic

@Baron "[Niall Ferguson] picked the wrong end of the stick here. How the West became so dominant ain’t the big ask, how it became so fugging flabby is." The answer lies in the virtual abolition of reason number 6.

oldtimer

I believe that the invention of the joint stock company and banks extending credit also played their part, not to mention the spread of the ideas of Adam Smith.

Verity

Baron makes an ace point above.

terence patrick hewett

The Modern Traveller: Bilaire Belloc

Blood thought he knew the native mind;
He said you must be firm, but kind.
A mutiny resulted.
I shall never forget the way
That Blood stood upon this awful day
Preserved us all from death.
He stood upon a little mound
Cast his lethargic eyes around,
And said beneath his breath:
'Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim Gun, and they have not.'

The Cat Anan

Person Anan: - Talk to the tail.

libertarian

@Anan

Oh dear someone with such a big chip on his shoulder that they never noticed any other similar non Western event in history. Invasions and military violence and conquering are a result of the development of the technology FIRST you numpty.

The protestant bit about work ethic plays NO part in it. If you have all the other bits you will succeed.

daniel maris

Yes, not exactly fresh out of the kitchen Niall, more "reheated from several volumes of history".

China has developed at a phenomenal rate, about as fast as you can go, while displaying a complete disregard for property rights of its inhabitants, but it has been canny enough to respect hte rights of foreigners.

One thing I notice that China definitely doesn't have is the power to win people over with its culture. It doesn't have the equivalent of Hollywood, the Beatles, the football teams, or the classical music...

This is an important factor I believe in acheiving global domination. Even in countries where America is heartily loathed, American culture often finds a welcome.

Japan has a similar problem - whereas France didn't.

I notice on the web that (South) Korean culture seems quite popular with a lot of Europeans and Americans, so I don't think it's just a matter of prejudice against Asian output.

dearieme

He's overrating "4. Medicine:". Medicine was pretty feeble at savng life until the sulfa drugs and penicillin. Clean water and decent drains were a bigger deal. As the Romans knew.

TrevorsDen

I think ironically enough we should look to the Coffee House as a reason.

Which is I suppose another way of saying that the west owns its pre-eminence to ... 'History'. We went through it, we worked it all out first.

Gary Williams

Earth to George Laird:

"I would say it could be shortened to killing people and occupying their countries.
"That is why the West is so dominant."

That was the Soviet Union's strategy. Why didn't it solve their problems?

monty99

Yes I'm sure it's a great article but almost no-one will read it because of the laughable Times firewall.

Hero to Zero in one easy move. Well done Rupert - how's the foot wound coming on?

Fergus Pickering

Thank you Salieri and Terence Patrick Hewitt.

Outside Observer

I thought that Max Weber had said all this in the 1920s in his book "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism".

Richard of Moscow

An attempt at answering Baron:

I say the west has become flabby, weak, and stupid because of:

1. The inevitable laziness and complacency which comes with success.

2. No education, due to two major factors: Greater opportunities for women caused many intelligent, educated women to leave or shun the underpaid and under-appreciated teaching profession (according to Freakonomics,) leaving a bunch of poorly-educated losers in charge of classes.
Secondly, the same thing (albeit with both sexes) happened to politics, and so it became a vicious circle.
There is no way an educationally-subnormal political class would want to improve/rescue education, since no-one with an education would dream of voting for them. After a few decades, the inevitable results are financial illiterates in charge of banks, voodoo scientists (AGW, global cooling, swine flu etc), semi-literate morons in the mass media and government...

3. The counter-culture of the sixties, with all its Orwellian double-speak. It became acceptable to be a 'pacifist' (coward), a 'progressive' (Luddite), a 'global citizen' (traitor) and a 'liberal' (puritannical nazi.)
This was helped and encouraged by the Communists, but the disease pre-dated the cold war (Fabian Society)

Nicholas

Anan, your comment is tripe. Study some history. Begin with the Malayan States.

victor jara 67

Ferguson should read the late Edwaird Said book Orentalism. It may cure his yearning for the empire and his elitism.

daniel maris

Dearime -

Good point about medicine. I would agree it wasn't that important. Colonials heading for the tropics used to die in huge numbers - but people were poor then and still went in search of betterment. Even Charles Dickens sent his son off in the navy with a copy of the Bible - his son promptly died of fever somewhere equatorial.

5 and 6 are almost true by definition.

As for 1, well, that is highly debatable. China is penetrating western markets by highly centralised planning. I heard on the radio recently about how the government ordered 10,000 people to work on planning for their high speed rail network. Nothing to do with competition. They can copy the West's technology without making patent payments.

Janet Davis

'The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism' by Max Weber might be of interest to some of you. (Or just google Wilkipedia to get the drift.) Not having read it since my university days in the seventies, I can't honestly remember whether I thought it made a valid point!

Kate

What an odd little article. Quite hard to argue that the Chinese are neglecting four of these: science and medicine where they were ahead of us, dropped back and will overtake us in the next twenty years; consumer society where 300 million of them are already on a par with Europe and they are chasing the US; work ethic where they long ago surpassed Europe and have also probably overtaken the US. Property rights isn't really the issue - rule of law more generally is. They've taken steps on the former but the latter has a long way to go. Ditto on decentralisation. Economic decentralisation to the provinces has been longstanding. Political decentralisation is in its infancy. But, as I say, what's odd is how shallow this article even for a 250 word blog. The re-emergence of China on the world stage is the main geopolitical change of this century and our level of insight and analysis is parlous. Compare the amount of ink spilt on the relatively inconsequential goings on in the Middle East.

Edward

Edward Said lied about everything he wrote about, including his place of birth.

Fergus Pickering

You can't know how much I hate that word elitism. It's always thrown in when somebody has run out of argument. What do you mean by it, Victor Jara, if you know, that is? Who is being elitist, and about what? Does it have something to do with thinking that, all things being equal, New Yorkers are superior to cannibals?

James

Didn't William Bernstein write this same book (The Birth of Plenty) a few years ago?
http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/404/bop2.htm

TomTom

Typical Western absent-mindedness. We became dominant because we were ready to apply Violence to situations. We defeated invaders like the Muslims and crushed opposition like the Scots or North American Indians, and we traded our products for raw materials before taking over the countries which had the raw materials.

The West was built by men like Francis Drake, Warren Hastings, Robert Clive, and Cecil Rhodes,,,men like Tiny Rowland secured influence in key areas of Africa where China is now entrenching itself.

Westerners knew what they HAD, knew what they WANTED, and knew how to GET it. Now they are passive consumerists waiting like chickens to have their necks wrung

victor jara 67

@Nicholas
But what history should he study? Is it not written by the victors?.

eg How Israel has continually denied the Nakba and it is only in the last 20 years thanks to the new historians that the truth emerges.

victor jara 67

@Edward
Orientalism is relevent to what is happening now in the middle east in explaining the polarisation in the western response.

Can those primitive Arabs really embrace democracy or will the Islamist bogyman prevail. Chomsky said it best. The West fears Arab independence more than Islamism.

victor jara 67

@Fergus Pickering

Regarding elitism. One of the current buzz words around the tea party movement in the US is American "exceptionalism". This concept smacks both of elitism and imperialism and is used to justify American hegomony.

It was a concept around in other fallen and declining empires.

Mossytoddler

I don't think anybody has mentioned the argument of Pomeranz in 'The Great Divergence' - Western Europe escaped the limits to its growth because it had coal (in the right places alongside iron ore) and it acquired vast resources from the New World.

Dave B

Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel" covered similar ground. As I recall he attributed the rise of Europe to competition between nation states.

yank

I agree with much of what Kate has contributed above, re China. Remembering too, though, that they allowed themselves to fail miserably, and fall into a scattered collection of mobs. And if a 300M mob of them are moving beyond a near starvation level of poverty, that still leaves a chunk near starving. We'll see whether they can hold the mobs together peacefully and productively, and devolve what must, as this all plays out.

I do see the nation-state as one of the big pieces of the West's progress, which can be exemplified by a global population collectively grounded behind the plow mule in 1900, and collectively standing on the moon a mere 70 years later. 70 years. Think about that. A blink of time.

The West did that. It also found industrial ways to kill tens of millions, but then, others used the ancient ways to kill just as many, by removing the plow mules and seed.

The power of the nation-state can also be the path to regression, if it stomps on individual freedom and liberty. That's the eternal battle, I should think. The EUcrats want to remove the nation-state, to eliminate the potential for regression. Be careful what you ask for. The Chicom warlords seem to be going in the other direction, if Kate's describing it all accurately.

Nicholas

"@Nicholas
But what history should he study? Is it not written by the victors?"

Good point. You are correct that since 1989 most history in the West has been written or taught with a horrible leftist slant (the victors of the Cold War here). In the case of the Malay States there isn't that much in English but what there is beats the soundbites of socialist post-modern propaganda hands down.

Objective history? Rare. Like all things investigation, confirmation and interpretation are a journey in which integrity and balance are key. Unfortunately integrity and balance with socialists are like chalk and cheese, almost mutually exclusive.

daniel maris

David V. I think there's something to that harsh climate influence on the northern Protestant work ethic.

People assume in their ignorance that everyone worked harder in the past, but that is not true. The working day in imperial Rome was about six hours. The diet was varied and nutritious. As someone else mentioned, the water and plumbing was good, so disease was minimised. It wasn't a bad life at all when you factor in all the entertainment on offer.

Even in northern Europe though, extended holidays were the norm in the medieval period (that's why there were 12 days of Christmas - it really was an extended holiday).

It's time we stared cutting back on our absurdly long working week.

Anan

@libertarian: yes, a barbaric society focussed their energies on making better weapons of death rather than on improving science or medicine, you numpty. Thank god that time has long passed now. Only later did the spoils of illegal crusades lead to scientific advancements. Let us not forget that the Chinese invented gunpowder and used it for amusement in fireworks, while the same compound was harnessed for death by the mighty "West." Looks like someone has a huge "burden" on their back.

@Nicholas: let's look at Malaya. Their land was invaded, their people brutalized, raped and murdered. Their territory was occupied and altered for the benefit of western commercial interests, and money and religion were the motivators - even during the civil war it was called an "emergency" by the government, in order to keep insurance costs low for the plantation owners. Malays were shipped all around the world to create a minority proxy in other colonies, altering the demographics in those places, and used for putting down rebellions.

This is exactly what I said above. And, it is exactly what happened all across the lands of innocent peoples. Now, re-read what I wrote above, read some history books, read my first comment, realise you are wrong, and keep quiet.

I am rather concerned by the re-writing and "white"washing of history by Fergusson and the commentors on this forum, which shows that the same mindset as yesteryear, of an ill-placed western supremacy, still existing today. The west should be ashamed of the terror they inflicted on native peoples across the world, rather than gloating as they do here. But fortunately, the "white is right" crowd are long past their time. There will be no return to empire, exploitation or exterminations. It is an impossibility.

Finally, interesting how Fergsson and the rest here completely forget a major part of the western "domination" era - namely slavery. That had religious backing too, from "(among other sources) Protestant Christianity."

Nicholas

"Now, re-read what I wrote above, read some history books, read my first comment, realise you are wrong, and keep quiet."

I have read it. It is tripe - and nothing more than puerile political propaganda. I have read history books - more than you have I dare say - and primary source material - especially on Malaya - enough to know that what you write is leftist tripe of the worst kind and completely without balance. It is the sort of trite political sloganism and brainwashing one can read of in Orwell's 1984.

And why should I keep quiet? Because you say so? You arrogant twerp. Your cast iron view that you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong is typical of the leftofascism infesting this country. What you disagree with you want to shut up, convinced of your own superiority. Your type is far worse than colonialists - you are oppressers of thought and word, burners of books, and enemies of reason.

And, by the way, you sad numbskull, a "a major part of the western 'domination' era" was also about eradicating slavery, curbing piracy and other forms of lawlessness - and putting a stop to quaint ethnic habits like strangling travellers, burning widows, burying people alive and building skull mountains. Interesting how you and the rest of your socialist re-writers completely forget that - not to mention Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Cousesceau, Pol Pot and all the other "caring, sharing" communists who have blighted the world.

Gary Williams

Anan:

For someone who pontificates without restraint about the wickedness of the West, and condescends to instruct others to "read some history books...realise you are wrong...", you seem to have forgotten that the West neither invented slavery nor had a monopoly on its practice.

Nicholas

"There will be no return to empire, exploitation or exterminations. It is an impossibility."

Really? Shows just what a fatuous, bigoted chump you are. Take a close look at recent, post-colonial African and SE Asian history, at what happens now in states like China and North Korea. Of course, because much of that is socialist inspired "caring and sharing" or Islamic extremism it cannot be compared with "white is right" (what a foolishly simplistic smear) however wrong it is.

I wonder if that cold, arrogant, dense brain of yours is ashamed of the terror still being inflicted across the world today, much of it in the name of Islam, instead of being subsumed in the crocodile tears of your hand-wringing, post-colonial guilt, you pompous ass.

Verity

The West invented all the best booze, which means we can relax better and be ready for the next day's application of intelligence.

Victor Southern

Anan

The British time of control in Malaysia was virtually a win-win situation for the native populace from the first day when we spent resources on eliminating the pirates. We released the northern states from Siamese domination and by 1873 had eliminated the wars between the Sultanates which had been endemic, two of them acting almost always as surrogates of Siam.
I have first-hand experience of the Malayan Emergency which was not, in any sense, an uprising of Malays but of mainland financed Chinese insurgents.

That followed only a few years after liberation from an indescribably brutal occupation by Japan.

Later British and Australian forces came to Malaysia's aid after independence to oust the Indonesian forces who were bent on conquest of the new state commencing with Borneo as they did with East Timor which did not have a determined protector.

I never encountered any Malaya who regarded the British with anything other than respect and often genuine affection.

Anan

@Nicholas, your descent into the depths of name-calling and frenzied, meandering ranting, not to mention racist generalizations and apologising of historical crimes by colonialists, really shows that you have lost the argument, and perhaps your sanity too (based on how you are screaming with self-righteous indigation here). You seem to be just another angry old man, aghast with impotent rage as he sees the death throes of colonialism unfolding in front of him. You are not worth debating seriously.

"Travellers" indeed, more like imperial scouts. "Burning widows?" Seriously, where do you get this stuff from? Please don't tell me Glenn Beck is your prime source of pro-imperialist junk? What about burning "witches" - how "Christian"! And "ending slavery"? Say again? You mean after it became unprofitable? Thought so.

The other parts of the world used to trade and exchange culture thousands of years before we in the west even wore clothes. While the west was running around with nothing more than blue paint and fig leaves to cover themselves with, the East and Middle East had language, culture, and a peaceful society. For 600 years the west compensated for this shameful truth by killing everything that wasn't white, but that time is long gone, and most decent people rightly condemn the "domination" period for the savage beastiality that it was.

I will end with this: we have to get our own house in order before running around telling everyone else how to live. Paedophilia, broken education, rampant crime, rape and murder, unsafe streets, homelessness, and drug addiction, are all the hallmarks of the "superior," "glorious" west today. Please, stop deluding yourself by trying to tell other countries how to govern themselves - Britain in particular and the west in general is a decrepit laughing stock. If we want to command the respect we once had, we have to return to civility, something which you and the rest of the old guard are simply unale to do. Let the progressive voices do what you cannot. And please, grow up.

Edward

Victor jara: orientalism is an idea which Said made up without reference to anything outside his own mind. He was heavily influenced by Foucault, a nasty little man who said that all truth is power, and nothing more.

Nicholas

Anan please refer to Victor Southern's thoughtful post. You wouldn't understand serious debate because you cannot appreciate balance, reason and truth. You impose your modern LEFTIST prejudices on the past and refuse to consider it in any other light.

I can assure I am quite calm in my loathing of people like you. Especially your hypocrisy in decrying name-calling but then descending yourself so easily into ageism. Angry old man, eh? Not surprising when there are so many ignorant young pillocks like you spouting leftist propaganda.

Do you really believe the tripe that "for 600 years the west compensated for this shameful truth by killing everything that wasn't white"? Your knowledge of history is almost as pathetically absurd as your self-loathing. If you are white and western I pity you. You have clearly never heard of suttee or the thuggee sect that murdered travellers from the 13th to the 19th century (predominantly fellow Indian travellers, innocents, btw). Britain spent far more eradicating slavery than it ever earned from the practice, which btw was integral to Islamic and African society for centuries before and centuries afterwards - still is. Where do I get this stuff from? My what a sheltered life you must have led.

Faux outrage doesn't cut it either. Progressive? Don't make me laugh you Labour party patsy. Britain is a laughing stock precisely because of morons like you and your communist chums. The old guard? The old guard had a bit of backbone and fought for the freedoms that allow deeply weird people like you to lecture them as though they were born yesterday.

egh

Bravo, Nicholas. Throughout.
Spot on.

Richard of Moscow

Anan, why do you think people as distant and diverse as the Maori of New Zealand and the natives of southern Persia WANT to be part of the British Empire?

Richard of Moscow

Sorry, that should have been wantED. The Maori got their wish and the poor Persians didn't.

Stochos

Most of the comments above are based on groupthink and racism.

The west would not have been able to succeed without the scientific knowledge of the east, such as Hindu-Numerals from India. They also contributed to the development of mathematics etc. Pythagoras' theorem was developed there and so was calculus.

The west got rich through exploitation. One commentator delusionally believes that the UK spent more protecting the colony than they took out. What hogwash!

The foremost democracy in western world was in India the world's foremost dictatorship.

Churchill should have been charged for war crimes for inter alia, the famine he caused in Bengal that killed millions, while ensuring the wealth of India was exported and the population of the UK survived.

That is an example of why the west was so dominant. Cruelty, barbarity and racism.

bonzodog

I think that the ghosts of Leibniz and Newton will be up in arms about such tosh that Stuchos has written. Modern calculus was invented by those two giants of 17/18th century mathematics.

Baron

Richard of Moscow:

I have replied to your stab at why the West ain’t what it once was, sadly, the reply got stopped, most likely because I had a go at the clever, intelligent, knowledgeable, (add any other positive adjective at will - Spectator watchdog please note) contributor to this blog Nicholas has been sparring with.

A. MacAulay

As seen by the rest, our European civilisation is divided into two groupings, a Mediterranean/Iberic and a Trans-Alpine. The former dominate that sea and South America, whilst the latter dominate Europe, Eurasia and Siberia, North America, Australia/NZ and a lot of odds and bobs inbetween. We are culturally highly developed, are very inventive and spectacularly violent.

The six points are all true and most of the additions too plus, which nobody seems to have noted, that where religion has withdrawn from a poitical role, we do best. But if there is thing that makes us not only invincible, but keeps all else in motion and growth it is freedom of speech. Everything else devolves from it.

gareth

Orwell was afraid we would succumb to physical oppression. Controlled by pain, information censored.

Huxley on the other hand thought we would surrender our maturity, history and freedom willingly as we became swamped by too much information, stimulated by technologies we would love and life became trivial. No need to ban books when no one wants to read one.

It's pretty clear Huxley was right. Especially reading Massie and Liddle, Nelson and Forsythe whose endless lightweight, agreeable blogging stirs no one's soul, pricks no one's conscience and taxes no one's intelligence.

Tintagel

@Anan

"Paedophilia, broken education, rampant crime, rape and murder, unsafe streets, homelessness, and drug addiction, are all the hallmarks of the "superior," "glorious" west today."

Stop it, you're scaring me. Don't they have these crimes in non-western countries then?

One could just as easily mention genital mutilation of young girls, rape and beatings in marriage, 'honour' killings, and modern day slavery as the hallmarks of many countries in the near and middle east and north Africa.

Are you equally as critical of their failings?

Maddy1

@Victor Southern
February 20th, 2011 5:28pm

right on Victor even when pushed to do so by leaders the average Malay only shows anti westernism haldf heartedly.

Maddy1

Ferguson bemuses me, China itself is a product of the West! If we had refused to buy the first batch of wooden screw drivers made by the political prisoners, China would still be Maoist. The great liberal think tanks of the west are trying to scare us about global warming and the predicted mass immigration to the West. If we do not know about the obtuse effects of AWG. well perhaps we will need to re occupy and displace the inhabitants of tropical lands yet once again, to ensure our own survival!