Cameron's fine, liberal speech
James Forsyth 12:55pm
David Cameron’s speech in Kuwait today did not take on his hosts in the way that Harold Macmillan’s ‘winds of change’ speech did. But it was a still fine, liberal speech.
The key argument of the speech was that:
”As recent events have confirmed, denying people their basic rights does not preserve stability, rather the reverse. Our interests lie in upholding our values – in insisting on the right to peaceful protest, in freedom of speech and the internet, in freedom of assembly and the rule of law. But these are not just our values, but the entitlement of people everywhere; of people in Tahrir Square as much as Trafalgar Square.”
This is the crucial point: crude realism is not realistic. If Britain, and the West more broadly, chooses to put itself on the side of autocratic — or as Cameron euphemistically called them ‘highly controlling regimes’ — it is just storing up worse problems for another day.
Cameron is also right to stress that liberal reform in the Arab world is both our business and in our best interests because it is “a key part of the antidote to the extremism that threatens the security of us all.”
Overall, Cameron hit all the right notes today. But actions speak louder than words. One thing the Prime Minister should be looking at is ways to stop regimes ‘turning the internet off’. Also if the Libyans are going to use aircraft against their own people then a coalition of the willing should — with or without UN authority — be prepared to warn the Libyans that any such planes might be shot down. That threat should be enough to make most pilots think that flying to Malta is the better option.
Previous
Yam Yam
February 22nd, 2011 1:13pm Report this comment"Also if the Libyans are going to use aircraft against their own people then a coalition of the willing should — with or without UN authority — be prepared to warn the Libyans that any such planes might be shot down."
Er, wasn't that how we ended up entangled in Kosovo... which in turn led to us being entangled in Iraq?
Vulture
February 22nd, 2011 1:30pm Report this commentThe words 'Liberalism' and the 'Arab world' or 'Islam' aren't exactly a good fit, are they James?
Any wind of change blowing from the desert will be a scorcher that will shrivel Dave of Arabia's liberalism in its tracks.
A wary realism is the best attitude to adopt. And it is extremely hypocritical of Dave to preach the virtues of liberalism and democracy when he is travelling with a posse of arms salesmen ready to flog the local despots the weapons they need to keep their populations down.
I think the appropriate phrase, as ever with this silly, self-important tit, is
'Pass the sick-bag, Alice'.
Charles
February 22nd, 2011 1:36pm Report this comment@ Vulture
"with this silly, self-important tit"
That's the sort of comment that would get you shot in many self-respecting dictatorships ;)
How lucky we are that more people voted for Cameron's party than for the alternatives else and that he ended up as Prime Minister
Chris lancashire
February 22nd, 2011 2:00pm Report this commentCharles: absolutely right. When Vulture goes on like that it is best to picture PM Brown leading the free world.
Rosscoe
February 22nd, 2011 2:07pm Report this comment"Also if the Libyans are going to use aircraft against their own people then a coalition of the willing should — with or without UN authority — be prepared to warn the Libyans that any such planes might be shot down."
Great I dea, we could send an Aircraft Carrier.....
Frank P
February 22nd, 2011 2:15pm Report this commentCharles (1.36pm)
Now, now, Samantha; why use a silly sobriquet? You're entitled to defend him openly. We would understand.
strapworld
February 22nd, 2011 2:44pm Report this commentVulture. Frank P. Well said.
I believe Cameron has got his own bunker boys and girls trawling the blogs, attempting to kick anyone who criticises him.Just like Brown.
We have the resident TrevorsDEn, beautifully put down yesterday as the Prescott of this blog!
When you consider all the problems Cameron has in the UK. Going on a tour, with his arms salesmen, in the Middle East at this time is madness. He has certainly got the Blairvirus big time.
Time for change.
Chris lancashire
February 22nd, 2011 3:06pm Report this commentOK strapworld, who do you want in place of Cameron?
Vulture
February 22nd, 2011 4:24pm Report this commentChris Lancashire:
Graham Brady, Patrick Nercer, Dom Raab, Dan Hannan, - almost any Conservative would do.
David Ossitt
February 22nd, 2011 4:24pm Report this commentIt was a fine speech.
Chris lancashire
February 22nd, 2011 4:34pm Report this commentVulture: just asking.
Chris lancashire
February 22nd, 2011 4:47pm Report this commentVulture: Having reflected, if that motley collection are the alternatives then best stay with Cameron.
TomTom
February 22nd, 2011 5:21pm Report this commentCameron is demented. He makes such a speech in Kuwait across from Iran and expects Saudi Arabia to feel safe ? It is good that Britain has as much military impact in the region as Italy. Has he no idea of British foreign policy and history in the region ?
What's he want to do in Yemen ? Does he think Syria a thriving democracy ? Does he believe in "regime change" ?
It sounds hypocritical for the British to talk as he does and makes peoples in the region even more suspicious of the British as if this is a new game to set up new puppets
Victor Southern
February 22nd, 2011 5:36pm Report this commentVulture - don't be vague. Surely the Daily Mail has a list of potential leaders in order of preference? If they haven't then I sure that a phone call to the Hefferlump will inform you and then you can inform us.
Anyway, I thought that you were in love with Pickles.
2trueblue
February 22nd, 2011 6:44pm Report this commentCameron did well, it was a balanced speech. Can you imagine Brown/Balls/Millipede representing us?
yank
February 22nd, 2011 7:15pm Report this commentOh I can more than imagine PM Balls giving that speech, and with Dave on current course, he will be, in less than a year.
And then it'll be Balls yammering in Kuwait, with the same arms dealer consorts.
Holly ......
February 22nd, 2011 9:22pm Report this commentLove it when the left go all Gaddafi.
Rambling,nonsense in bombed out bunkers,all
hyped up and ready to come out with the same
stale old rubbish,beleiving,as Gaddafi does,we cling to their every word.
AT LAST,we have a new,young,fresh government
With a vision and a purpose other than controling everyone through fear of change and fear that breaking free from their control will bring us only pain & sorrow.
I am proud to see our Prime Minister talking
to other countries,who's people have the same aspirations for the freedoms we do,and are demonstrating for them.
I have been watching 151 news and the banners,chants and the demands are NOT for islamic rule,it is for the same freedoms Vulture,Fat Bod in his Bus & Co already enjoy.
Shame they use their freedoms to talk bollocks,but hey ho.
Fear mongering is the worst form of control of your people and should be faced head on,with rational statements,not violence and criminal damage.
That last bit was for the opposition leader & his stooge Miliband.(Or is it the other way around?? Who cares)
Holly ......
February 22nd, 2011 9:29pm Report this commentWhy couldn't you simply say 'a fine speech from the British Prime Minister'?
Is that too much to ask?
What did you expect him to say?
If Gaddafi does not surrender,we'll bomb Libya until he does???
Then how would you have titled it?
Being Conservative DOES NOT mean you can't be 'liberal'!
It used to be called diplomatic back in the day.
The trip was pre planned and being a canny chap he adjusted accordingly.
He would have looked pretty 'off the ball' if he had said NOTHING about the uprisings now wouldn't he.....Go on...admit it...
yank
February 22nd, 2011 9:50pm Report this commentYou know, thinking about this more, David Cameron really is a shameless opportunist, and this arms trading junket is the surest sign of that.
His FO voted the anti-Israel line at the UN the other day, voting for the Hezbollah sponsored resolution, which the ME thugocrats favor of course, as it provides a little jew-baiting diversion to the unwashed masses they're jackbooting.
And then, immediately, here comes Dave to the ME with his arms merchant entourage, sidling up to the thugocrats, to cash in on his UN vote, and get immediate thugocrat payoff. "And remember, King Abdullah Yabbadabbadooah, the US voted against you, but we were pure, inshallah. So buy Rolls Royce."
I mean, it's shameless. Fully transparent, unprincipled and shameless.
But hey, who needs principles? Certainly not David Cameron. He hasn't shown any that distinguishes him from his opposition at home, fiscally or otherwise, so why should he abroad?
So yeah, that's why I can well picture PM Balls, shortly. Why muck about with imitators when you can have the real thing?
Holly ......
February 22nd, 2011 11:27pm Report this commentyank.9.50.
If you did more'thinking'& less'speculating'
you would come across a bit less...troll.
This trip was NOT arranged because of the uprisings and was to Kuwait anyway,who we supported in the first gulf war.You know..
the place that needs to have it's own defences,just in case,and looks to us for such defences,hence the defence equipment bods,who create jobs for people back here.
The events in the ME probably occured,AFTER this trip was arranged and DC has taken the opportunity to highlight the STARK changes in the British government's dealings with the likes of Gaddafi.Something LONG overdue.
If DC had not visited Egypt,a friend of Britain,or mentioned the uprisings he would have looked rather silly.
Unlike Blair,who continues to look rather grubby & bloodstained.
PM Balls???
There you go again with your 'thinking'.
Isn't the USA now blaming him and the great Bozo for America's financial woes???
Not very good PM publicity,or even AM for that matter.
Balls IS one of the main players in the disgrace this country is in today and the weakest link in Labour,with NO common sense to get us out of it.
I am thinking....
We CAN and WILL keep reminding Balls,and his tea boy Miliband,of their FAILINGS in fiscal & governmental responsibilities whenever they come to the dispatch box.
A bit of a bugger that innit!
yank
February 23rd, 2011 2:22am Report this commentWhat difference between Dave and Blair? I'm failing to see what is this alleged difference you're referencing.
Blair sucked up to bloodthirsty thugocrats in Libya, and his follow on government eventually released a mass murderer in trade for BP's contracts, and now Dave is voting the jew baiting line, and scabbling to sell arms to other thugocrats grateful for his jew baiting.
Where is this alleged difference you reference? How much do these politicians have to debase themselves and you before you actually notice, anyway?
Florence ...
February 23rd, 2011 3:22am Report this commentVulture - "Dave of Arabia"! That's wonderful! But this desert ain't big enough fer the two of us ...
Verity
February 23rd, 2011 3:35am Report this commentChris Lancashire and others ... Nigel Farage. About 300m more brain cells than Dave. And the right attitude. And genuine.
As Tom Tom says, Cameron is demented.
He longs for a role on the world stage, as did the evil Tony Blair.
Victor Southern - Excuuuuuuuuuse me! I am the one in love with Pickles!
Holly ......
February 23rd, 2011 9:37am Report this commentVerity dear,
I watched Farage on QT and all he rambles on
about is the EU,regardless of the question.
In fact he came across as quite mad.
300m more brain cells? Shame he uses them all on one topic.
The bloody unions & Labour will use that figure to scare us about how the'nasty'
Tories are going to 'cut' the amount of Farage's brain cells,because he WASTES most of them!
One ticket policy will NEVER get him into No 10...AV or no AV.
You are just another of the doom mongers who will be crying in their beer come 2015.
Don't beleive me???
Are you 300m brain cells sure?? 'Cos I am and it is growing by the day.
Victor Southern
February 23rd, 2011 10:10am Report this commentVerity - apologies. I mix the two of you up. You are the one who lives in Mexico and loves baseball. Vulture is the one who lives in 1850 and loves nobody.
Yank - I don't know what any of our politics has to do with you but since you hate even more people than Vulture I suppose you are a Birchite. In an effort to inform you I can assure you that Great Britain knows about 10,000 times as much about the Middle East as does the USA. Your great mistakes there began in 1956 when instead of stopping the Soviets from subjugating Hungary you stopped us from overthrowing Nasser.
Consistently over the years your country has supported a variety of terrorists in efforts to overthrow regimes that you opposed. Without fail the USA has been wrong and has created worse regimes than it disposed of - reference Cuba,reference Afghanistan, the list is long.
arnoldo87
February 23rd, 2011 12:01pm Report this commentCameron and his government have to live in the world as it is, and I an glad to say that they are, broadly, taking a Blairite/Neocon line, which is:-
1. When faced with a non-democratic government, push as hard as you can diplomatically for democracy and liberalisation.
2. Continue to trade with these countries unless they represent a risk to the international community or indulge in excessive overt violence to their own people.
3. If they do either of the above, then try to get the United Nations to do something about it, using sanctions or, in extremis, military force.
Pursuance of this route, of course, will usually be stymied by some sort of political veto at the U.N. and then will come the really hard choice of whether you can assemble a Coalition of the Willing ( be it Nato or an ad-hoc alliance).
Although this policy will never be 100% followed, it is probably as principled as you are going to get it.
So - well done Dave
yank
February 23rd, 2011 6:18pm Report this commentVictor Southern
February 23rd, 2011 10:10am
"In an effort to inform you I can assure you that Great Britain knows about 10,000 times as much about the Middle East as does the USA. Your great mistakes there began in 1956 when instead of stopping the Soviets from subjugating Hungary you stopped us from overthrowing Nasser.
Consistently over the years your country has supported a variety of terrorists in efforts to overthrow regimes that you opposed. Without fail the USA has been wrong and has created worse regimes than it disposed of - reference Cuba,reference Afghanistan, the list is long."
.
Sorry, but the UK knows less about the ME than anybody on earth. That's why its government is hated there, because those people know who came to subjugate them, as Egypt 1956 and elsewhere.
Perhaps if the UK suddenly didn't want to support Churchill's WWII wish that the Sovs would satellite Hungary, it might have looked to block their subjugation. But they decided instead in '56 that they'd take their meager forces, basically incapable of even executing an Egyptian invasion, and go off on their own and embarrass themselves, and make more enemies in the ME. Fortunately, for them most of all, they weren't allowed to enter that quagmire.
Whatever mistakes the US has made over the years, they don't do what they do for themselves, unlike the colonialist empty shell that staggered into and out of Egypt in '56.
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