Will cuts kill the little platoons?
Jonathan Jones 6:16pm
David Cameron is clear that his Big Society is about more than just volunteering. Yet
during the recent spat on the matter, one of the strongest, most frequent criticisms voiced against it was that cutting state spending will lead to fewer volunteers. Dame Elisabeth Hoodless,
executive director of Community Service Volunteers, claimed that the coalition’s spending
cuts risk “destroying the volunteer army”.
Johann Hari was also among those making this attack. In the 10 O’Clock Live debate that Fraser blogged last week, he claimed that international evidence tells us that volunteering is highest where public spending is highest. Here’s what he said:
“The biggest international study of volunteering was done by Professor Amitai Etzioni. He found something really important. The state in America that has the highest level of volunteering is Massachusetts, which has the highest level of taxes. The state with the lowest level of volunteering, and the lowest level of co-ops, is Mississippi, which has the lowest level of taxes. The same goes for countries in Europe.”
It's a fascinating claim – and one that could prove crucial to this debate. If volunteering does indeed go down when state spending is cut, then Cameron has a sizeable hole in his thesis. So, is it true?
We contacted Professor Etzioni, who told us that he had no idea what study Hari was referring to. Hari, it turns out, mis-spoke: he was referring to Robert Putnam, as referenced in a New Statesman article. The source for this was a speech that Liam Byrne made in October 2009 which mentioned Putnam (for whom Ed Miliband worked during his year in Harvard).
We emailed Professor Putnam, who said: “I have, in fact, done some informal work along those lines, and my general finding was that the size of the public sector was basically unrelated, one way or another, to what I called ‘social capital.’” He agreed with Hari in so far as there is no evidence for the “crowding out thesis” – that big government prevents volunteering – and that “social trust and group membership are, if anything, positively correlated with the size of government.” But, he said, “I also don’t know any strong evidence for the opposite ‘crowding in’ argument that Hari makes,” and “the specifics of his claims are novel to me, and in at least one case they are factually false”.
He added, “In volunteering, according to the best evidence from the US Census Bureau, Massachusetts ranks below the national average and is just about on a par with Mississippi. In terms
of actual data, Minnesota (a fairly high tax state and third from the top on volunteering) would support his case, but New York (a very high tax state and second from the bottom on volunteering)
would definitely not.”
Putnam is one of the leading academics in this field, and he says that Hari’s evidence that the Big Society won’t work doesn’t exist. He doesn’t see evidence to support Cameron’s Big Society thesis either, but others – notably German sociologist Isabelle Stadelmann-Steffe and academics at the University of Linz – have recently found international evidence of the state “crowding out” volunteering. So it’s just possible that – in this respect at least – the Big Society has a credible theoretical underpinning.
Previous
Perry
February 24th, 2011 7:16pm Report this commentHow might the 'cuts' further damage the 'Volunteer Army', already decimated by years of PC twaddle, pointless checks, and mind-numbing legisaltion?
I would think the majority of people of good will and common sense would, unless they have the gifts of a Saint, flee from volunteering and never return, if only to preserve their sanity.
2trueblue
February 24th, 2011 7:37pm Report this commentVolunteering has not grown in recent years for a couple of reasons. The first one being that both husband and wives work and the big problem started under Liebore, and their passion for having people continually checked every time they volunteered. There was no joined up thinking when it came to the idiot idea that someone had to be checked for every organisation they volunteered to become part of. It is logical that people need to be checked if they are working with vulnerable individuals, but illogical to do it again a few months later when the person volunteers to help out in the community.
Verity
February 24th, 2011 7:49pm Report this commentLook at that Godawful nursery school graphic of "the big society"! All it needs to make it "accessible" to toddlers is a few smiley faces.
Holly ......
February 24th, 2011 7:49pm Report this commentWe all know the state funded 'charities' will not play any more and will take their ball home,now a proper government has smacked them in the face with the bat.
Why didn't they do what non-state funded charities do?
Fund raise!
You only have to see what happens when a dummy is taken away from a child,to realise what these 'charities' are going to do...
Especially at Christmas...When poor children
will have to miss seeing Santa.
Lazy,inadequate Labour policies,as always.
Baron
February 24th, 2011 8:35pm Report this commentJonathan, do I take it you regard the fact bears defecate in the woods fascinating, too?
low taxes in a society of aplenty must lower the need for volunteering, there’s less demand for it, people have enough in their pocket to cover their needs. Conversely, for a society with high taxes.
the big ask is where do the tax revenues in high tax societies go. The tax dollars must be spent on things other than those addressing people’s needs, hence the higher incident of volunteering.
Guido Fawkes
February 24th, 2011 8:56pm Report this commentHari has previous. I Have a vague memory of some false claims about slavery in Britain based on made up academic citations.
Peter Grimes
February 24th, 2011 9:41pm Report this commentIt's the same old ZaNuLieBor game, isn't it.
Repeat a lie often enough on our impartial public benefit broadcaster's many channels and enough dumb leftoid clucks will believe it and repeat it until it becomes, in their eyes, true!
It worked for Blair, and even for Brown for a while, didn't it?
h
February 24th, 2011 9:43pm Report this commenthari talks b*ll*cks - not really earth shatterimg news
on the plus side, am starting to see some real signs of the people hari says dont give a monkeys recovering their sense of civic responsibility (yes, bankers and their like)
big society writ large when it means "i cant continue to igonre it if i can no longer pretend its someone else's problem"
Holly ......
February 24th, 2011 10:24pm Report this commentVerity.7.49.
Your mature,relevant point to the topic is?
aboukir
February 24th, 2011 10:40pm Report this commentDo you think Hari's problem is bigotry or stupidity ?
TomTom
February 24th, 2011 11:02pm Report this commentMassachussetts is not only highly taxed but is very corrupt. I should expect much more volunteering in Texas and away from the heavily unionised areas such as Mass. Much of it is around churches which enjoy exemption from taxation unlike in the UK.
The other little problem here is ISA and CRB and the fact that Gordon Brown made lots of sports clubs and volunteer groups register as Limited Companies.
Hitler eradicated most charities in Germany by integrating them into The State. Exactly as has been happening in recent years here.
Hexhamgeezer
February 24th, 2011 11:05pm Report this commentHari's problem is Gramscian malevolence
kinglear
February 24th, 2011 11:42pm Report this commentI know the Victorians are deeply unfashionable for all sorts of reasons, but the one thing they did do well was charity. It was a DUTY to do charitable works and quite apart from anything else, scores of surveys and enquiries have found that people who belong to religious or charitable groupings are happier and live longer than those who do not.Ok, perhaps they needed to assuage their guilt for lots of things - but if the state din't take so much away in tax, then recycle it in a most ludicrous way ( paying for itself en route of course)people might actually give more and more time too
Bill Brinsmead
February 25th, 2011 12:05am Report this commentWise up guys, Dame Elisabeth Hoodless is a Labour supporting rent seeker who drew a large salary for running a charity.
Charities are full of such folk who are basically looking for a cushy number away from the harsher realities of private and public sector work and always seeking the easy funding option of funding from the state.
St Bruno
February 25th, 2011 12:19am Report this commentTory through and through? Well, when all is considered like Political Correctness, directives from the new masters of Great Britain namely the EU, diversity multi this and that the barmy army will march forward to the pit of total debt, starvation, Biblical size immigration from North Africa and high petrol prices. One clapped out frigate and the gang of Rodney and matlots will not be big enough to rescue all the broken promises and stale words from No. 10. And there will be more to come I suppose.
http://eyetube.me/play/YouTwat/Francis_Urquhart_on_the_BBC
Cobblers
February 25th, 2011 1:00am Report this commentHari is a tosser but the Big Society is a load of old cobblers.
Verity
February 25th, 2011 1:30am Report this commentHolly, where did I label my point "mature" or "relevant"?
I think the plain, unvarnished point is perfectly clear. If you didn't understand it, ignore it. The world will continue to turn.
Fergus Pickering
February 25th, 2011 3:15am Report this commentVerity, what's wrong with the graphic? I like it. Can you suggest a better one? isn't it true that if David Cameron were revealed to be JC himself you would still go on the way you do? Do you think he is better or worse than Blair and/or Brown or about the same?
raymond jones
February 25th, 2011 7:45am Report this commentMy policy is to recognise that new business is a charity case itself.What I would do is create work adventurers, that volanteer their services on a Gentlemens Agreement basis as regards pay take less may be lower than basic.then grow with the company.
John Moss
February 25th, 2011 7:57am Report this commentLefty lies in support of anti-Tory rhetoric.
No change there then.
citation, Ed Balls....
Rob
February 25th, 2011 8:43am Report this commentSo Hari basically lied. Great one.
Different Rob
February 25th, 2011 9:11am Report this commentI agree with Rob
Jabba the Cat
February 25th, 2011 10:02am Report this commentHari is a complete wanker who constantly talks bollocks, and specialises in throwing toys out of his pram.
tb
February 25th, 2011 10:46am Report this comment"Mis-spoke" or in traditional English, lied.
anna
February 25th, 2011 12:35pm Report this commentI've done voluntary advisory work for Age UK (formerly Age Concern) for over 10 years, in which time I've seen the pool of available and suitable volunteers shrink to almost nil. Our traditional base was middle-aged to elderly professionals with time on their hands, willingness to train, and a sense of professional responsibility. Such people are now (a) expats (b) looking after their grandchildren as both children and their partners need to work (c) deferring retirement and working themselves. As one (forcibly) retired legal secretary said sadly to me: "I can't afford to work for free."
I think Mr Cameron and his colleagues are basing their idea of charity work on a model that is now seriously out-of-date and inoperable. If my own branch loses one more volunteer,we are contemplating closing altogether - we already operate on restricted hours.
arh14
February 25th, 2011 12:36pm Report this commentIt counts for nothing (but I'm going to say it anyway).
My gut instinct belives the middle classes are more likely to volunteer. Witness Middle England's plethora of WI groups, soup kitchen volunteers and historical societies. The poor have more pressing concerns.
What DC doesn't seem to have realised is there are more 'poor' people now than ever. And by that, I mean people who "more pressing concerns". Take the vast majority of young couples and families. For most both partners work mainly as a result of the UK's astronomical property prices.
TomTom
February 25th, 2011 2:22pm Report this comment"My gut instinct belives the middle classes are more likely to volunteer. "
That's your gut instinct based on your restricted circle of acquaintances. In the real world it is not class-based. There are lots of people minding other people's children, running errands, helping out without having to put it on the CV
Verity
February 25th, 2011 4:08pm Report this commentTom Tom - Nice point.
David Peter
February 25th, 2011 6:52pm Report this commentWhen I was at university I sacked Johann Hari as news editor of the student paper because he kept making things up and then printing them.
KB
February 25th, 2011 8:41pm Report this commentBut Hari was awarded the highest ever double first at Cambridge. Surely he doesn't just make sh*t up.
HJ
February 25th, 2011 9:21pm Report this commentIs anyone really surprised that Johann Hari's 'evidence' turns out to be nothing of the sort?
Does anyone take any notice of him anyway? I would rather listen to the political opinions of the average three-year-old.
Mr Eugenides
February 26th, 2011 9:59am Report this commentHari also wrote a corking column last year in which he claimed that the Prime Minister of Japan had "nearly been killed by a robot".
Good grief, I thought; how did I miss that story? Three minutes of Googling provided the answer: it had never happened. The robot blew a puff of steam in his face, and everybody laughed.
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