Zelikow's case for a no-drive zone

In2minds

The US and action in Libya. Should we start without them, as before?

porkbelly

Events are rapidly making this debate obsolete - Gadaffi will be in Benghazi within a few days and it is plain the so-called "International Community" will have nothing to say about it.

This whole ridiculous episode highlights the uselessness of the UN, the EU, NATO, and the rest of the all-expense-paid lunch crowd at dealing with fast-moving (or even trudging along at a snail's pace) events, especially those which require contemplating the use of force. The ludicrous insistence on the UN stamp of approval - the same august organization that appointed Libya to the Human Rights Commission not long ago - effectively doomed any action from the start. China and Russia were never going to say yes - and can anyone explain why the imprimatur of two corrupt dictatorships is required to confer moral legitimacy on any international undertaking of this sort?

Cameron has taken his reputation down a few notches as well, spouting off with his no-fly zone plan when he plainly did not have the resources to deliver, nor any apparent strategy for winding up the action if it failed to oust Gadaffi. He is seriously out of his depth in the foreign affairs arena and has raised doubts about his general level of serious intent and ability to follow through. You know things are bad when the French are leading the charge.

Obama, it pains me to say, did the right thing in the end and listened to Gates. The US was going to be once again manipulated into putting up the military wherewithal for their dainty European allies. For Obama making vague noises about letting the "International Community" handle the matter was his way of telling Dave to go pound sand. At least Obama was acting in the US's best interests (well, maybe his re-election campaign had something to do with it...) - what the hell was Dave doing?

Dennis Churchill

We could always send a few hundred trauma councellors.
As a Post Militaristic, Post Democratic region of the EU that is about all we can do. They could fill out Victim Statements.

Jeremy

James:

"He says that it (the no-drive zone) could be enforced from off-shore with the use of precision weapons..."

You know...a lot of these American advisors sound to me as though they should be inside the same compound as Colonel Gaddafi.

TrevorsDen

I think simply washing hands of the whole thing would have been disgraceful. But there could be no movement without the UN and its been vetoed by Obama.

Blair fell over himself to support the US, now look what we get from a Democrat?

'We' being the West. In fact we the west will be in a long standing and difficult relationship with a victorious Gadaffi.

I would suggest these events cannot be brushed away and Gadaffi cannot in any way be trusted. He will have to be blockaded to prevent him fermenting terror again. I do not see how this end result is not a strategic issue for the USA.

In2minds

The no-drive zone -

"it could be enforced from off-shore with the use of precision weapons".

More drones, more dead?

daniel maris

No fly and no drive -

I'd definitely support that. Also, blockade Tripoli.

John Montague

The dude really don't like us Trevor, he really don't, man.

Libya is in any case our problem, not his. The US is broke, it can't fly the world any more.

What we have here is a tale of two Cleggies. Our Cleggie, and the German Cleggie, Westerhalle.

Those two have paralysed what should have emerged from this, namely Britain and France (with German diplomatic if not military support) ending this dictator's ability to move troops across Libya with a set of simple, non-onerous ground attacks on his artillery battalions.

Clinton did it very elegantly in Bosnia. It was humiliating enough back then, and especially to Britain's discredit, that the appalling Rifkind resisted the idea for so long. Bad enough that we had to wait for US jets and had not thought to equip ourselves with the required high-precision munitions beforehand.

This time around, it's coalition politics that are neutering our response. What a cringe, what a farce.

bojimbo

( Wringing hands ) Should we , shouldn`t we ? Too late !

Baron Pippin II

cannot wait to see what the farting colonel will do to its own people, to those outside, who were urging his downfall. The West, and that includes the Yanks, may yet find out the cost of a missile or two to finish him off was chicken feed compared to that of what he does when he’s finished the slaughter at home.

Andy Leeds

A sort of 'you drive, you die' zone.

Excellent, excellent. Pity it's 3 weeks too late.

Yonker

The Brits should keep out of this totally; if anyone should implement a no-fly zone it should be the French and Italians and any interested mediterranean states!
How on earth can you operate a sensible foreign policy having to create agreement first of all with 26 other disparate states and then in the UN?

Remittance Man

No fly zones, no drive zones, no chuffing swimming zones, who gives a chuff? It doesn't matter what gets declared, it won't be worth a gob of spit without the hardware to back it up and the will to stay the distance.

Since I suspect "the West" has neither, all discussion is simply onanism of the debating club variety.

Remittance Man

Yonker,

Haven't you grasped it yet? That the whole plan. Eventually the 27 nations will become so frustrated that they hand all foreign policy decisions over to Cathy Ashton in Brussels. At that point the eu will think itself powerful enough to ignore the irrelevence that is the UN.

The sad fact is Britain could easily do exactly the same, simply by telling Cathy and her chums to sod off.

AY

Qaddafi is devil in disguise but good chunk of "revolutionaries" look much worse.

Those idiots who want protecting Benghazi will create either Mogadisho or Gaza in Mediterranean. Result will be inevitably piracy, arms smuggling and increasing flow of sub-Saharan tribes to Europe.

On the other hand, Qaddafi demonstrates that even being morally wrong, and internationally recognized terrorist, and with laughable military capabilities, - one still can stand against whole world and prevail.

For some other states - not comparable to Qaddafi's zoo and with better army - but whose legitimacy is also questioned - just to note.

Fatbloke on tour

JF

Any chance you could add a bit of context to your post?

The bloke writing in the FT looks to a caricature of that classic US foreign policy numpty - the academic, right wing mentalist, neo con fantasist that thinks just because he can imagine it, it must and will happen.

No drive zone - forget it.

Impossible to police.
Easy to get round.

How far into Libya is the zone going to extend?

What vehicles will be involved?
Everything, including farm tractors

He is just a rent-a-gob out on hire spouting right wing Likud loving pish to embarass BO and provide some raw material for a Republican attack advert in 2012.

File under "dog bites man".

yank

The Euros are incapable of doing anything, on any of this. I'm amused that Khadaffi is literally thumbing his nose at them right now... openly taunting them.

I'm sure he'll be generous though, and BP will get to keep some of their holdings. Not as much as the Italians and frogs of course, but some.

Watch your step though, brother Moammar. The sheriff will laugh along with you at the impotent dopes... but you're only about 500 pounds of cordex from being atomized... so best keep clear of the sheriff.

annassasin

The no drive zone sounds like it came form the same person that suggested that youths could be taken to an ATF, by the police to pay fines.

However there is a new type of cluster munition that could end the governments advance, with amost zero mess. I cannot remember the name, however here is a brief description. When released over enemy forces the bomb spins, then releases dozens of bomblets, each bomb searches for a metalic heat signature, then destroys that vehicle, if a bomblet does not find a target it self destructs. 2 bombs = no gadaffi military advance, simplez. Sort of.

Lee

BS, one day after this useless piece shows itīs imprecision