What to do with Gaddafi?

Tom B

An honest assessment, James which does this site credit.

I also think it would be frankly hypocritical for the West to put this man on trial having only recently been happy to share cheesy photo-ops with him, as in the case of Blair/Brown, etc.

It is not nice letting a vile person retire this way, but frankly, the Libyan people have suffered enough. The sooner this can be brought to an end, the better.

salieri

A very peaceful solution would be to allow him to work, as himself, at Mme Tussauds. He has been practising the right look, and having the surgery, for years.

Rhoda Klapp

It's not up to us, it's up to the 'Libyan people', or more likely the winners of the civil war. I'm sure they will deal with him as morally as he deserves. Except he hasn't lost yet, and if he plays his cards right he may last a lot longer while westerners wring their hands with their ridiculous reluctance to act without a legal figleaf. Why are we supporting one side in coflict with the so-called legal terms of the UN resolution? Why did we not just do it properly, or not at all? Do we have a secret plan? Or no plan?

John Montague

If Gadafi escapes to Sudan, say, or Somalia, he can still use his stolen billions to finance attacks on Libya. He has to be brought to trial.

More worryingly, Erdogan may be pushing for a deal whereby the repulsive Dr Saif al-Islam Gadafi (PhD, London) retains a political role in Libya.

The unremittingly negative role of Turkey in all this has been a real eye-opener and warrants in depth investigation.

Chris W

St. Helena is free, or what about Bikini Atoll? Preferably somewhere with no phones or internet.

Austin Barry

"The unpleasant truth is that if dictators are left only with the choice between fighting to the bitter end and a trial in the Hague, they will pick the former option as they have little to lose."

Well, there's always the Adolf exit strategy.

Magnolia

let him go into exile for the 'greater good'.
Let's 'forgive' him for the sake of those whose lives we will save.
I think it easily possible to find him mentally unfit for trial on the basis of what I've read in the newspapers over the last few weeks, so there would be no 'loss of face' for our Prime Minister or anyone else who wants to look tough.

justathought

Those surrounding the Gaddafi family will now being considering them to be a liability and therefore expendable. For his henchmen the option of exile is not open so they will happily 'sacrifice' their leader to take the inevitable attention of themselves if he were to be allowed to flee the crime scene.

A much better option would be for the Gaddafi family to face trial in Libya rather than the international court which does not have the death penalty.

Victor Southern

What is important is that this very unpleasant and dangerous man no longer holds the power of life or death over the people of Libya and is disconnected from channels to his terrorist friends of all stripes and in many countries.

Punishment is not a matter for us to legislate.

wrinkled weasel

I see James has opted for the "Lockerbie Solution". My, how short some peoples' memories are.

Pragmatism is not morally neutral, it favours evil, because the good suffer pragmatism, whereas the bad benefit from it.

Don't you think it is time that despots had it made very clear to them that they cannot run and they cannot hide, and however distasteful this may be to Vladimir Putin or Silvio Berlusconi, the only thing these people understand is fear of retribution, which should be decisive and final.

Gaddafi is in the premier league of evil criminals. To allow him to slither off and live in luxury is not only a travesty of justice, it is degrading to humanity.

Cameo Parkway Kid

Although WW has it right, we should have nailed Gadaffi's head to a mast back in the 80s - but no. Cecil Parkinson covers Lockerbie up, Blair makes Madaffi his best mate and not to be out-done, The Rave sells him £290M quid worth of military equipment before deciding to go off on his vainglorious war, planned on the back of a match-box.

The fact that Shameron has willingly sent RAF acft with no DAS fitted to support a AQ-inspired revolution, Westminster into the JOA with only 4 SeaWolf in its 32 tubes - and no Harpoon for self-defence, and somehow managing to lose about £5m quid worth of sensitive GCHQ equipment (remember the SF getting lifted by a bunch of farmers??)then it doesn't surprise me one bit in this make-it-up-as-we-go-along war.

I wonder if the Rave mentions at the meeting to bend the already rather vague UNSCR to include a bit of regime change today about the 2 day meeting at MoD last week to see if they could reverse the Harrier decision. Come on Dave, what's one more U-turn amongst a few spiv car dealers? It certainly can't be as low as the dodgy deal you did with the Saudi's to get them onside in the first place.

You really can't make this lot up. Morally bankrupt shower, the lot of 'em.

JohnPage

the door should be left open to him to go into exile

He wouldn't go reliably into wealthy retirement like some others, he'd always be a danger. How long before he arranged his first assassinations?

Utterly impracticable.

Patricia Shaw

Would Israel take him?

Bruce, UK

Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across - Sun Tzu
or
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane - Kipling

My tuppence - if you are resolved on this - get rid of the Dane.
If we had got rid of the this particular "Dane" in the 1980s...

General Zod

Tom B, perhaps we could put him on trial alongside Blair and Brown.

Percy

Don't send him to the Hague, try him in Benghazi and leave it to the Libyans to sort out.

normanc

Depends if there were any murky dealings between him and our Glorious Leader, Great Helsman and Liberator of our Wealth, blessed be His name forever (and his predecessor).

He does like a good old rant full of nonsense and grandiose ideas with no basis in reality (I'm talking about Gadaffi now, not Brown) so it may not be the best idea to give him (how long did the Yugoslav leader take?) x years at the cost of countless millions to no great end.

Jez

WTF you on about you lot.....

The rebels have Al Qaeda in their ranks, the 'NFZ' has evolved into an outright intervention in a Civil War, the Russians are out, the Germans are out, the Chinese are out, the Turks are shaky at best..... the Lybians not allied with the Eastern rebels/Islamists/bandits/democracy seekers/Al Qaeda are not to keen to chance a Western Iraq style democracy, where they will be ethnically cleansed at best- tortured to death at worst.

Give you heads a shake and start to question the utter propaganda that your being spoon fed by the MSM here.

Gaddafi should have gone when he was out of control. Agreed.

But now we are creating a prefect storm for a completely destabilised Middle East... yes, those words; 'WE ARE'.

A million man march in Cairo Friday with more violence on the cards in Yemen, Bahrain, Jordan and Syria.

But there's an important meeting in London to scratch each others backs today? So what.

"What to do with Gaddafi?" What a joke.

Paddy

How about Kircauldy.

John Montague

the Lybians not allied with the Eastern rebels … will be ethnically cleansed at best

Are you under the impression that Misrata is in the east, Jez? Or that the largest, best-educated tribal group in Libya, the Warfalla, are eastern Salafists? Or that there is any evidence whatsoever for ethnic cleansing?

I agree that something very worrying is brewing in Egypt. It's true, the region is increasingly unstable. That doesn't justify your suggestion that the Libyan insurgency is a civil war between two equally repulsive forces. There has been no rebel shelling of urban centres, nor murders of hundreds of civilians, for a start. I can see you want to believe that the insurgents are as bad as Gadafi. Question is, why is that so important to you that you are prepared to put your name to fabrications?

Jez

Islamic militancy, Al Qaeda, destabilising the recovering economies of the West, Iraq type conclusions, utter contradictions of media statements delivered as fact- only to be proven wrong weeks later.

Stuff like that John.

Can you, hand on heart say that the media reports have not been manipulated to the point of slander in some cases?

Are you not aware that the Iranians are as keen to see these revolutons spread like wild fire as the liberal elites are over here?

Where the hell was all this indignation when the Lockerbie Bomber was released a year or so ago?

We are in the process of negotiating ways of arming the Islamic militias..... who we don't know too much about at all.

Well, i say we..... you know the lot by the sounds of it.

Remember, just because whoever may be doing badly politically- this does not mean they have the right to drag the EU / NATO into a North African Civil War like Sarkozy has attempted with the backing of Obama's R2P project.

There has been no calls for negotiation just sabre rattling and a scramble to attack from the Western liberals.

As an opinion.

Fatbloke on tour

Monty @ 3.27

Who are the rebels?

Bunch of self promoting chancers would be my best guess.
The old middle class trying to recover their pre 1969 power?

All this social media is starting to look very scripted, I wonder who has got the media handling contract and who is paying?

I fear that the USN and WH are starting those credibility. What started out as fresh and exciting is all starting to look scripted and pre-planned. The lack of questioning from the media and their experts is also looking a little fishy, surely real journalists exist and can spot the flaws in recent events.

The delay = no NATO oversight for the next couple of days so the "liberal" interpretation of UN 1973 can continue.

The alternative government = all a bit too pre-baked for my liking.

Just when will the charade be dropped?

The US is actively trying to get MG out and the midget French mentalist and Dave the Rave are only being used as useful idiots.

Finally who was the wiseman who said that you couldn't drop democracy in from 40,000 feet?

When will th

Rantonuk

We British are not the only ones involved here. The Lockerbie bombing which was ordered by Gadaffi killed many Americans. I think the Americans should also have a say in bringing him to trial.

Baron

James seems to think only two options to quit are open to the dictators: “The unpleasant truth is that if dictators are left only with the choice between fighting to the bitter end and a trial in the Hague, they will pick the former option as they have little to lose”

There’s yet another option that would send a clear signal to future torturers, one that any common sense individual should opt for – perished in office. That’s the route we should have chosen, we didn’t, hundreds are dying, thousands more will die before the mass murderer is finally removed. Madness.

wrinkled weasel, sir, spot on.

John Montague

Jez, I agree a lot of journos have been kept locked in a golden cage in Tripoli. They've been inaccurate and ill-informed at times, picking up on each other's stories in classic churnalism mode.

However the facts speak of actual distortion in a different direction. For instance, the Islamist thing promoted by Swami in the Telegraph is silly. It's based on an Italian article which says something very different. Al-Hasidi is very much a minority figure. In that interview, he says that he sent 'about 25' of his supporters to fight in Iraq and that now 'some of them' have returned and that some of those have gone to fight at Ajdabiya. Focusing on the political affiliations of such a tiny number of individuals strikes me as a lazy distortion in this case, and makes one suspect that Mr Swami has a particular agenda.

Gadafi has no support left, only his thugs. When his own tribe hands him over for trial, then negotiations can begin.

@fatbloke

Who are the insurgents? Well, yes, you're right, they're led by a collection of doctors and lawyers. You're looking for proletarian trade unionists in Libya, maybe? Gadafi killed off any independent socialists years ago. Younis, the general commanding the insurgency's forces is a prominent member of the Warfalla tribe of western Libya, not noted for any kind of Islamic fundamentalism.

If there's anything being scripted in the social media it's probably being done by the well paid employees of prominent and expensive PR firm Brown Lloyd James, which has already been criticised for putting out Gadafi's propaganda. See, that's documented, whereas your claim is unsubstantiated and, judging by my contacts with individuals in Libya, unfounded.

Democracy is not being dropped from 10,000 feet. The survival of a revolution aiming to defend the Libyan people from state terrorist aggression is. Personally, I have my doubts that democracy will be the result, but I do think something better than Gadafi's rule will emerge.

Fatbloke on tour

JF

You have to hand it to WH et al, they really are giving it their best shot.

Instead of mission creep we are looking at mission gallop.

Qatar calling the shots, selling the oil and now buying the arms.

Just where is it going to end?
Boots on the ground are looking ever more likely.

Looking more and more like Iraq 2.

How long before we need to worry about Dave theRave being hauled up to the "Hague" to answer the charge that he and others have overstepped the authority contained within 1973?

At least the motley crew are becoming a lot more honest about their real intentions.

Dimoto

The genius in the oval office reckons the "mission" is to defend the civilian population, but that seeing off Ghaddafi is "a step too far".

The minute the western powers intervened, the ONLY way to protect the dissenting civilians was to ease Ghaddafi out.

Still, with the "cheese eating surrender monkeys" suddenly becoming decisive, and cutting through the crap to stop a massacre in Benghazi in the nick of time, and the erstwhile "America's best friends in Europe", the redoutable Teutons suddenly morphing into "sausage guzzling ditherers", we should forgive the poor chap's confusion.

Victor Southern

Here on one thread we have the contrast between the incoherent ramblings of FatBloke and the informed logic of John Montague who clearly knows a lot about Libya.

More from John please - we may begin to understand. I share his misgivings as to what will emerge from the civil war. It will be a different dispensation but not necessarily an unalloyed good thing for all Libyans or the Western deliverers.

MaxSceptic

Let him die in agony as all mad dogs do.

yank

It's amusing listening to fluffy Hague and squishy Dave yapping like yorkies about "what we will accept" re Khadaffi.

Newsflash, you twits. Nobody who matters cares what you twits will accept... not Khadaffi... and not the US.

And not the Russians and Chicoms, the African Union, the Arab thugocrats and God knows who else.

Now serve tea promptly, you twits. No cream for me, thanks.