Is al Qaeda in Libya?

normanc

More importantly, are there monsters under my bed (especially the wicked Randall and his dastardly invisibility trick!)?

Stay tuned and tomorrow I'll reveal all (or not if said monster exists and eats me during the night).

Grey

I am not entirely sure that Al Qaeda runs a formal card carrying membership scheme a la the Trotskyists, so in a sense you need to know what is the head of an individual to know how susceptible to Jihadist ideology he is or not. Three things can be said:

1. Reading the State Department cables shows that Jihadist ideology was of continuing interest to the State Department and seemed to be one of two sources of opposition to the regime, the other being that the Eastern half was not sufficiently get rewards from the oil wealth. It was strongly indicated that the renunciation by some members of the LIFG of Al-Qaeda - mediated by Saif Gaddafi - was probably superficial to get release from jail.

2. Looking at videos uploaded by the fighting group at Misrata on youtube there seems to be a lot of dancing around shouting Allahu Akhbar when they wheel bodies of Libyan army (arabic) soldiers around or when coalition forces hit a tank (normal crew 6 Libyan arabic soldiers inside?). I have yet to find a translation for this phrase Allahu Akhbar. I think it means "No Taxation Without Representation" or perhaps "Marriage Equality for Libyan Lesbian Black Whales" - but I have yet to confirm this.

3. This is what one AQ senior commander was saying in mid 2009:

"Abu Yahya went on to promise that the mujahideen will take revenge on Qaddafi. How? He explained that �the soldiers of jihad are getting near you, after having their words unified, their forces assembled, their hearts combined, and their banner raised in the Islamic Maghreb, in order to take revenge on you and those who are like you.� This was definitely a clear response from Abu Yahya to those LIFG leaders who rejected the merger with al-Qaeda. He never mentioned them by name, but his words were clear: you will fail if you continue to insist that you are a �Libyan group� and reject being part of al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)."

alan campbell

Oh, that's alright then. Send in the RPGs.

Andrew Fletcher

This sounds like a triumph of hope over reality.

Fatbloke on tour

DK

Any thoughts on the low key reporting on the BBC?

British forces involved and it seems to be playing second fiddle to just about everything.

Does the story now not suit the required narrative?

TomTOm

"except for a quote from Admiral James Stavridis"

You should brief him better Daniel. Never mind though, US planes and ships have now left the area and it is France and Britain that are running things.....

BTW Daniel, what is "Al-Qaeda" ? I thought it was a "base" in Afghanistan to welcome Mudjadin from Muslim lands; what do you think it is ?

Baron

more to the point, Daniel, if you’re near the place you may like to find out who are the guys running the rebels, very little has leaked out, surely someone somewhere must know.

alan campbell

Far more knowledgeable insight than gung-ho Korski:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/patrick-cockburn-the-shady-men-backed-bythe-west-to-displace-gaddafi-2260826.html

yank

Who, in truth, knows who makes up the rebels; or what will happen if the fighting goes on for a long time?

.

Precisely, although that hasn't seemed to have stopped you from making up your pet theories.

You don't know who these people are. That's the only known-known here.

For now, all we have is the US military's analysis, which showed east Libya to be the largest source of foreign jihadists in Iraq, by fraction of source population... way beyond all the rest.

It is a hotbed. That's the data. Those of us who actually understand the current situation make full use of data wherever it is to be found... that's how we've been able to understand this current situation... even as you globalist troughers flounder about with it.

Absent US special forces, intelligence assets and contractors, bolstered by the Egyptian junta's presence, you may depend that the islamofascists will seek to shoot their way to the top in Obamastan. That's what they do.

And the alleged 31 member "council", which to date has only announced the identities of no more than 10 of their membership, obviously recognizes the precariousness of their position. Both Khadaffi and the islamofascists will seek to hunt and slaughter them, and so they remain in their holes. This is all still in Phase 2, as all except you well understand. It’s all about who gets slaughtered first, now.

Obama isn't being allowed to commit US ground troops, yet that would be the only surety for Obamastan's survival, as the boisterous frog and limey politicos are impotent. This stalemate was the eventual point of indeterminacy that would be reached, once this liberal interventionism was initiated.

Can the Obamastan rabble, with US support, raise anything like a professional security force, before they get slaughtered? That's the question.

Jez

I don't believe that Daniel.

(I don't think your lying in your assumption either- which is as worrying)

Frank P

AQ is everywhere' it's an idea, not an army; an adaptable franchise. Islam is the conduit.

Fatbloke on tour

plank @ 2.20

Any thoughts on why Libya provided so many AQ recruits?

All down to one area, one city, one tribe being particularly mental?

I do worry about this aspect of the revolt because at the moment in Eastern libya "Dads Army" is not a 1960's sitcom, it is a training video.

Consequently anyone with an agenda and a bit of organisation will go far. Any royalist dreamer trying to implement his plan would be a laughing stock / dead within days of making it public.

yank

I think I answered your question in another discussion, rotund fellow.

Khadaffi hates and puts the beatdown on islamofascists, so they're forced to practice their craft elsewhere, would be the likeliest explanation. Plus, for many years Khadaffi has been persecuting the tribes of the newly founded Obamastan, so that might give additional explanation for their numbers and actions... they have a grudge.

Don't forget those ignorant sods interviewed on that coastal road, who were fighting Khadaffi because he's "Jewish".

This islamofascist model is sorta like the one you commies use... it ain't much about reason and common sense and intelligence... it's all about power.

John Montague

@Alan Campbell

That's a pretty poor article from the usually excellent Patrick Coburn.

The one interesting revelation is that this Hakim al-Hasadi, the terrifying Islamist that poor old Swami got his knickers in a twist about in the Telegraph, turns out to be ... probably another CIA agent. Funny old world.

Verity

Who the hell cares what one particular gang is called? They're all violently anti-West - including the ones who are after visas.

I'm with Roger de Montfort (or it may have been Abbott Citeaux). Give me a gun and I'll prove it.

Fatbloke on tour

Plank @ 3.35

Bit of flannel around my original question, specifically looking to see if their is a tribal angle on the Libyan AQ mentalists.

One town has been highlighted, just wanting to know if tribal allegiance comes into it.

PS.

Democratic socialist if you don't mind -
Progressive, constructivist, collectivist.

I feel dirty because I think PM did 18 months good work for manufacturing.

Working class pragmatism coming to the fore rather than all that middle class ideology that causes all the problems. Not a fan of cords, sandals, mueseli or social workers.

Ex Grauniad reader, I still buy it but I don't admit it. Clegg-mania was the last straw plus that chinless wonder Glover doesn't help.

Herbert Thornton

Korski asks - "Is al Qaeda in Libya"? and then goes on to assert that there's very little evidence of it.

Of course al Qaeda has a foothold in Libya. There are al Qaeda supporters in Britain for goodness' sake, though Korski is doubtless determined to ignore both their numbers and the fact they they constantly fly off to places like Somalia, Afghanistan and Pakistan, eager to learn how to be suicide bombers.

Like far too many people he exemplifies that old saying that there are none so blind as those who don't want to see.

alan campbell

From the Patrick Cockburn article:

"It must have become obvious to the rebel leaders in Benghazi that television pictures of their forces – essentially untrained gunmen in their pick-ups looking like extras from a Mad Max film – were damaging the credibility of the rebel cause in Europe and the US...".

Too Right.

John Montague

You get teenagers who don't even have a gun trying to push up to the front lines. The insurgents are now trying to prevent this sort of anarchy, because it makes any kind of combat discipline impossible.

Thing, is, the TV crews and journalists are also being kept right at the back, amidst the excitable teenagers, where they can't get hurt and can't do too much harm by revealing dispositions to all and sundry.

Consequently we get a pretty peculiar picture of the insurgents' fighters on our screens and morning papers. As Rhoda aptly said, elements of the Mad Max brigade may be following the TV crews around rather than the other way around – or they may just be their assigned minders.

yank

Over-caloried Gentlemen,

You grauniads and the islamofascists have plenty in common. You're both praying for the impossible... return to the good ol' days.

But the caliphate days ain't coming back (at least not in Khadaffi's Libya), and neither are the days of yore on that pile of rocks (and here, too), when functional illiterates screwed bolts on bumpers at huge salary.

Oh, there's plenty of manufacturing about... here as there... and the numbers keep rising... just not of the kind and manner of manufacturing that you and Lenin dreamed of. That's all gone now.

Unless the commies/islamofascists take power, that is. All bets are off, then.

dan

Little Evidence? Only one quote? What a joke.

Rebel leaders admit that Al-Qaeda is connected with them. They admit that they supported Al-Qaeda forces that fought us in Iraq.
Obama is committing treason by supporting the same organization that killed thousands of Americans.