Clarke for the high-jump

Tiggy

Yep, the coutry is run by gutter press.

Matthew Blott

Clarke may have been acting like a jackass but it's sobering to think News International has a veto on cabinet positions. Cameron should tell them where to go and call their bluff. The Sun might give MiliE five minutes for his opportunism but they are never going to endorse him.

Rhoda Klapp

In a contest between do what the SUN wants and do what is right, it will be interesting to see what option wins. This is a test of the PR man at the helm. Does he have principles, or merely tactics?

No, I still don't like Ken, but I'd rather see him go for something real than this nonsense.

Perry

I am sure the wimmin of this land have no room for Ken in their hearts.

The Mouth of the Humber? - well now, that’s a different matter entirely. Why, the sun seemed to shine from … out of him at one point.

charles hercock

Fear not Ken
Plenty of time before the election and Red Ed guaranteed your safe tenure at the end of his exchanges with Dave yesterday
I found his explanations this morning credible

DavidDP

"So one can only imagine how Downing Street feels about this morning’s edition of The Sun"

One would hope that it feels that it is the government that runs the country, not the tabloid mucksheet.

Nicholas

Government by media - and not just any old media but the Sun.

Oh, joy. Let's hope for some politicians of principle and gumption with the courage to give the bastards the whiff of grapeshot that is so long overdue and so well deserved.

david

What a joke the bbc are enjoying their limelight, this story completely out of all proportions.

Labour let out all prisoners and I didn’t hear these women complaining.

Every one knows Clarke was for the high jump at the next reshuffle

Sally Chatterjee

I'm pretty sure I didn't see "News Corp" on the ballot paper last time. I certainly didn't vote for these people.

The Sun needs to be taken down a peg or two. It is there to report the news, sport and display topless bimbos, not to set policy nor pick and choose ministers.

Tom

It's a sad state of affairs when The Sun dictates who should sit in the cabinet. Isn't it time our democratic politicians told Murdoch where to go?

Tiberius

"Clarke for the high-jump".

Yes, but in 2012, and most definitely not as a member of the Olympic team.

les

Stuff the Sun - they are way off target on this one just like they were about Brown and the letter to a dead soldier's family and will be misjudging the public IMO - their front page this morning is a disgrace.

Of course Clarke didn't explain himself properly but I understood what he was getting at - not ALL rape can be classed the same - how can it?
If a woman is date raped and realises it the next day what has happened how on earth can that be the same as a young girl dragged off the street shoved in a van and raped.

Both rape but different - which is what Clarke tried to say and I fully support him!

TrevorsDen

The Sun does not have the clout it did and its male readership probably agrees with Ken.
The other salient point is that the headline is untrue.

Vulture

Whether Clarke is right or wrong on this particular issue, its an ideal chance to get rid of this fat, oyster-eyed, big-mouthed, outmoded, criminal coddling, superannuated Euro-loving gasbag...if only Dave wasn't Clarke in short trousers.

When he turns up in HMP for QT tonight wouldn't it also be a good opportunity to lose the key and lock him up overnight in the cell that's waiting for Huhne and Laws? Then they could all be Liberal pals together, in the place where they belong.

Simon Stephenson.

"So one can only imagine how Downing Street feels about this morning’s edition of The Sun"

Indeed. Let's hope for all our sakes that it feels it necessary to stand up to the mediaevalism of thought-process that permeates the Sun and its red-top rivals. Let's hope that it is untiring in promoting the message that humanity must do better than allow itself to be dictated to by lamebrains - for otherwise there's little hope for us.

charles hercock

The rape issue is of course nothing to do with it
It is just the vehicle to hang their detestation of a liberal Justice Secretary
Offer them a real liberal or worse a social democrat like Lansley and see what they say

I was with Cable when he threatened to screw Murdoch
Shame he was found out

Frank P

Vulture (1.35pm)

Post of the Month - by a country mile!

jazz606

Clarke did nothing wrong and (despite what I've said elsewhere) his apology wasn't an apology which was fair enough as he had nothing to apologise for.

Frank P

The Daily Mash weighs in:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

Two unforgettable pictures; one on their home page and the other when you click on the story strap.

As all political buffoons come to realise, sooner or later - it's the lampoon that does for you.

John Richardson

"One of the few dark spots of the May elections for the Tories was that the party ...."

James Forsyth.

How can you have forgotten so quickly that the Tories failed to win the General election?
Why overlook that minor hicup?
Why delve into the world of politics Mr Forsyth?

If you do not know what you are talking about you will make yourself seem foolish.

Vulture.

We dream the same dream.

ollie

Labour are not tougher than the Tories - they are an opposition party who can declare their love or hate for anything without commital.

The Sun has this very wrong indeed by congratulating an oily little weed like Miliband. Clarke is ten times the man and politician he will ever be.

Magnolia

I once read that The Sun has a reading age of 9.

whatawaste

An awful lot of hysteria and angst in the media but very little factual content. Britain's rape conviction rate of 6% is the lowest in Europe. In 1985 the rate was 24% but has fallen since rather dramatically.

Countries with totalitarian regimes often have very high conviction rates but then fair trials are an illusory state. The UK's current rate is shameful and from the victims point of view the system is broken and needs to be fixed.

This thesis paper may help:

http://www.research.plymouth.ac.uk/plr/vol2/Ewing%20%20final.pdf

You could say the system is geared towards the rapist despite the many reforms of the CJS but again the media does not want an informed debate and neither I suspect do the polticians. It is all about what KC said and the way he said it. Where in the media has the decline in the rape convinction rate since the 1980's been made explicitly clear this week? The MSM should publicly apologise to the public for this omission.

Greenslime

I'm not a woman so I can't imagine the mental torment that they go through during and after a sexual assault/rape. But we need to get a grip here. Clarke's comments were not anti-woman. The government is currently reviewing, across the board, the way the sentencing system works. And the government is merely trying to find ways to discourage criminals from arbitraging the legal system. No decisions have yet been taken and Clarke must surely be right that it might be better to get someone to 'fess up' at an early stage in order to shorten the time between offence and conviction. This will save time and, in sexual offences, et al, reduce the need to expose victims to extended and traumatic further stress. It will also, potentially save a lot of money. It will also mean offenders will start their sentences closer to the time they convicted the offence - at the moment, offenders can be in custody for months before they are actually convicted and sentenced - which means that on conviction, even for fairly long sentences, taking into account time served on remand could see them emerging from prison weeks after they are convicted. This gives the impression that they have hardly done any time.
We should be engaging in the discussion rather than behaving like a bunch of nutter Sun readers who have only read the first paragraph and then lost interest so they go out and torch a paediatrician's house.
For God's sake. Get a grip and stop being all hysterical.

Steve Tierney

I'm no fan of Clarke and the Sun is right, he IS weak on crime and he is bringing the Conservatives down with him. But this is not the way he should go or the reason he should. Shrill emotional outbursts seem to have more power than reason - that is not a good thing.

Jane

I am a woman. I have never read the Sun nor am I interested in the views it portrays. I listened carefully to Ken Clarke's interview (thanks to this site as I do not listen to R5). I should add that I have worked in the criminal justice system as a sentencer and in other roles. I have also trained victim support workers and worked voluntarily for the Samaritans and Rape help lines including rape vistim counselling. I am fully aware of sentencing policy and the Sexual Offences Act and the law governing release of prisoners. I am aware of the Sentencing Council and know its guidelines on sexual offences. I am aware too of aggravating and mitigating cirumstances which ups or reduces length of sentence.

At no time during the interview did Ken Clarke threaten women. Indeed the opposite occurred with him saying that victims of rape went through two ordeals - the sexual violence and then the witness box when they would be called liars. Further, he got across to me but not the interviewer who was not interested in the facts, that it was quite wrong to state that serious Rapists would be released at 15 months. In putting across his argument he said that the average tariffs were skewered by the inclusion of rape against boyfriend and girlfriend if the victim was under aged 16. He was trying to reassure the listener that serious Rapists got much longer sentences. His one error of judgement was mentioning Date Rape as he was not permitted to develop his argument on the wide range of factors which this encompassed and which the Judge takes into account when sentencing.

Mr Clarke has been the first Home Secretary for an awfully long time who is trying to base policy on research, common sense and with an eye to the huge cost to the taxpayer. For example - defendants changing plea on the first day of a schedules Crown Court Trial. Crown Courts and lawyers cost us a lot of money. It is outrageous when this occurs and I feel that lawyers should be penalised when it happens. Neither should a defendant receive a third of his/her sentence by doing so. Mr Clarke is trying to reduce these aborted trial costs - it is his duty to do so to save money.

He is doing a fantastic job as Justice Secretary - forward thinking and always with an eye to justice but with the taxpayer in mind. It is people like him who persuaded me to switch voting from labour to the Conservatives at the last election.

Baron

vulture, if you're looking for a place to lose the key in, let me know, the buffoon should have been disposed of a long time ago.

Cogito Ergosum

So Ken Clarke is in the doghouse for telling it as it is. I voted against the last government to get away from this "let's pretend" attitude to reality. Looks as if I may have to do that again.

Paul Linford

If Cameron had any balls he would replace Clarke with Dominic Grieve just to wind The Sun up even more.

Liz Brown

No way should Clarke be for the high jump regarding his remarks on rape. This psuedo row manufactured by the B-BBC and ill advisedly jumped on by Millipede minor should not be allowed to deflect from what he ACUTUALLY said and hos the idiots have interpreted it. Gieves now, is another matter with is europhile leanings. What has he done to protect us from Europe

Kevin Law

why the assumption that all rapes happen to women? - like domestic violence - the male victims of sex crimes are erased from the debate.

this ignorance however comes more from the adrophobic feminists than it does the establishment. for 'wimmin', sex crimes are all theirs - no males need apply.

as one sweet 'wimmin's rape officer' (i kid you not - that was her job title) said to me one day on campus - there is no such thing as male rape or male sexual abuse - just men who feel guilty about having gay sex.

nice to know those that call most loudly for equality are incapable of expressing such equality themselves.

dorothy wilson

I gather that this lunch time Radio Nottingham - in Clarke's home patch - broadcast some interviews with people they had accosted in the street. All of them agreed with Clarke's views on different levels of rape.

That said, the coalition might be better served if Ministers, when floating ideas about possible changes, described them as "policy options" with the emphasis on the second of those two words.

If they then set out an odd number of options with the preferred one in the middle they might just find the public would go for that one.

tom jones

I thought Clarke made silly comments on a serious subject. If you had been or if you had a family member/friend who had been raped and the headlines paint out that the JUSTICE SEC thinks some rapes are worse than other rapes then you'd probably be furious. However, this whole fury in the press seems much more about getting rid of Clarke, which they've wanted ever since the election. I didn't think Clarke was doing a good job, but seeing this fake outrage as he so rightly pointed out has really made me want to support him staying in his post. We can't have The Sun or the Daily Mail deciding who gets what position in the Cabinet. Cameron should show some leadership and defend Clarke in public rather than the pathetic little "his spokesperson says he has full confidence..." blah blah blah. Clarke was a brilliant chancellor and the fact he's justice sec is not HIS fault but rather the people who decided that position. He should've been Biz sec and Cable should've been elsewhere.

perdix

I can remember when the Sun slavishly supported NuLiebour and look where that got the country! News International is as reliable a supporter as the LibDems!

Herr Kartoffelkopf

Did KC get any facts wrong during the interview? Did he try and mislead? Can't actually a rational reason why he should lose his post.

Don't get me wrong, rape is serious - but not all situations are alike. To try and argue so is to oversimplfy a complicated issue.

Synthetic indignation is a phrase which I've heard KC use before and this, i feel, is what the R5 presenter (Sony Gold award, my a**e), the gutter press and MilliE are guilty of. Maybe they should go instead?

oldtimer

You say: "Tory high command also worry that Clarke will have further dented the party’s standing with women."

Yet many of the comments on this affair from those who have identified themselves as women are in agreement with what Clarke said. In particular see Jane @3.16pm.

I listened to the recording posted here yesterday. What Clarke said made sense - provided you could hear what he was saying above the interruptions of the interviewer.

It is perfectly obvious that this is an attempt by the Cameroons, aided and abetted by Mr Forsyth, to be rid of Clarke later if not sooner. The Sun has been roped in to give the non-story legs. As an attempted stitch-up it is not very convincing.

Frank P

Clarke is transmogrifying into George Melly's mummified cadaver. He should stop worrying about rape and review the law and penalties regarding necrophilia; he could well be an imminent victim.

Andy Carpark

Frank P - WBGTDWI?

gordon-bennett

Following the hysterical reportage of derbyshire, burley and kuennsberg regarding Clarke, I think it's time that wimmin were banned from being allowed to report on serious matters.

A Rand

He's a pro EU wet
He's soft on crime

Let him go

Mr Dark

Luckily for Cameron and Clarke real Prime Minister (Paul Dacre) is on holiday in the Virgin Islands.

Verity

Old Timer - Agreed. And I think that, by and large, women rather like Clarke. In a popularity contest, he would certaily get more votes than Dave or any others of the Cabinet not one of whose names instantly spring to mind.

Bill Brinsmead

Mr Forsyth, will you and your Telegraph chums please leave Ken alone.

What a great guy and a great servant to the Conservative Party. Assertive and aggressive without being offensive, he never dissembles or trades in humbug or bullshit. There is tremendous regard for Ken among my fellow party members even when they disagree with some of his views.

He was effective as Secretary of State at Employment, Trade & Industry, Health, Education & Science, as Home Secretary and as Chancellor. What a record!

Lancashire Lad

In a week when Mr Cameron effectively made the Attorney General redundant, could he really sack his Justice Secretary?

That would leave Britain's Justice System in disarray. And that just wouldn't do.

Baron

you don’t get , do you, it isn’t about rape, we’ll never get any sensible ddebate about it, as we didn’t about immigration and stuff, it’s politics, it’s the deep seated beliefs of the gnomes of politics, where they stand vis-à-vis what the majority want, how far divorced are they from the unwashed.

Clarke pretends to be a conservative, he never was never will be, the shoes shouldn’t fool you, Conservative though he may be, in the mould of the boy, that’s why he is where he is. A Rand @ 5.19 gets it spot on.

Legion

Still stand by this piece of insight ?

Frank P

Andy Car Park (5.16pm)

I thought you'd never ask! :-)

Frank P

Clarke for the high jump? Is that because he's a F-f-f-f-f-osbury flop?

FvH

The real question is why Cameron didn't feel strong enough to get rid of him(or force him to walk)? DC clearly doesn't feel sufficiently in charge of his Cabinet to enforce such a move
If Clarke stays it leaves Cameron with the Murdoch press looking for revenge and the Tories looking soft on crime!!!!!
Could Ed Red's call for him to resign have been a ploy to make sure he was kept in place ???
The result is that Labour will now become Murdoch press favourite on law and order!!
Regardless if disdain we all might have for Murdoch that is nit a good result for Cameron

ian

Don't you now feel a little foolish about the arse you have made of yourself, James, now that the faux outrage has rebounded on yourself and the other idiots who failed to read carefully what Ken said.