How the Tories could capitalise on the eurozone's woes

TomTom

Cameron will do exactly as Juncker tells him. He does not want to go down in history as the man who unleashed a Second Great Depression in Europe. He will sound off a bit and go along because like the rest of the herd he hasn't a clue.

Sorry James, but this is how Tragedy unfolds. It is now unstoppable. You are going to see the 1920s re-run in Europe starting from the South and working upwards because Europe has spent 20 years plus building castles in the air and treating the Chinese like coolies to make the goods.

They learned NOTHING from the Great Soviet Disaster 1917-1990 and set out to rebuild Commissariat Socialism in Western Europe and giving free access to China and exemption from all the EU social costs

Anthony Zacharzewski

Blackmail - always a brilliant and morally-upright strategy. What's more, it's guaranteed to boost our reputation particularly when the livelihoods of millions and our largest export market is at stake.

And the paranoiacs think that the EU is plotting against the UK...

Rhoda Klapp

Look, the issue is not whether Cameron will cave in, but when. If he stands up to the EU it will be the first time. Why do we have to have this sort of speculation dragged out every time there is a chance of any euro-realism, or of our politicians acting in the interest of this nation rather than others?

Martin Adamson

Yes, how reassuring it will be, going into the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression, to know that David Cameron is in the halls of power in Brussels, fighting doughtily for the right of British publicans to sell beer by the pint. Rather like the famous League of Nations meetings September 1939 where the main item on the agenda was the harmonisation of railway track gauges.

Jess Del

ONLY CAMERON DOESN'T THINK CREATIVELY....he will never use any veto the UK has to secure something back from the EU...that's too much backwards 'negative' thinking for a progressive like DC. Oh and the EU will let itself collapse before agreeing anything requires treaty change....that's their red line. Ppl would go mad for a referendum, etc. if that were announced. They'll just use another piece of Lisbon to quietly usher it thru.

RCE

Another piece of poor analysis from CH. For a start, the voters that the Lib Dems are trying to win back are unlikely to be impressed with an anti-EU position, are they?

Moreover, Cameron has no intention of standing up to the EU. At their little (but lavish) get-togethers, the EU apparat know full well that the dream is over and disaster looms; it is a matter of when, not if, but none of them wants to be the one to hasten it by telling the truth or rocking the boat.

So it goes on. And the longer it takes to fall apart, the worse it will be for everyone.

They really are all in it together.

Charles Martel

@Anthony Z

With Greece holding the whole Eurozone to ransom because they are unable to restructure their debt and refuse to put through structural reforms... and yet Britain, who is not a Eurozone member - asks for something in return for pumping billions down the Euro black-hole, to which we are not a part.

I don't think that getting something in return is entirely unreasonable, and nor would anyone else that isn't a complete raging Europhile.

Perry

But, frustratingly, there’s still no strategy for how David Cameron could use this crisis to advance the British national interest.

The H2B will ensure there isn’t.

Enough said.

Verity

What Rhoda K said, except I would say that while Cameron does not act in the interests of this nation, nor does he act in the interests of others. He acts solely in the interests of David Cameron.

The "heir to Blair" indeed. His master's template.

REPay

Rhoda - there are some great jobs for failed national politicans there. It would be selfish to jeopardize these in the national interest. (Of course, "national interest" is an embarrassingly outdated concept in any case.)

Publius

What Rhoda said.

Cameron has gone over to the dark side. I have lost what little faith in him I was clinging to.

Once again the political elite is consumed by a collective madness. It is so reminiscent of the 'consensus' about Brown's lunatic end-to-boom-and-bust new paradigm.

No doubt, when the whole thing falls to pieces, there will be no one to be found who supported all this madness.

denis cooper

James -

"As I wrote last week, if the eurozone countries decide that a solution will require a treaty change then Britain has a veto over that - and could use the negotiations to secure various things that Britain wants from the EU."

And as I pointed out to you the week before:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/6997913/camerons-european-opportunity.thtml

"Cameron has already agreed to a radical treaty amendment without asking for or getting anything at all in return.

Here are the Conclusions from the March 24/25 meeting of the European Council:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/en/ec/120296.pdf

and Item 16 on page 7 is:

"Recalling the importance of ensuring financial stability in the euro area, the European Council adopted the decision amending the TFEU with regard to the setting up of the European Stability Mechanism. It calls for the rapid launch of national approval procedures with a view to its entry into force on 1 January 2013."

Plus in reply to Feste later that same Friday afternoon:

"As stated above, Cameron has already agreed to a radical treaty amendment without asking for any quid pro quo, and he was pre-authorised to do that by both Houses of Parliament without any Tory MP suggesting that maybe they needed a new leader.

The Lords agreed on March 21st - the short debate starts at Column 527 here:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/text/110321-0002.htm

and the motion was passed without a vote in the next section.

The Commons had a similarly brief debate on March 16th, starting at Column 421 here:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110316/debtext/110316-0004.htm

"The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): I beg to move,

That this House takes note of draft European Council decision EUCO 33/10 (to amend Article 136 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union with regard to a stability mechanism for Member States whose currency is the euro) and, in accordance with section 6 of the European Union (Amendment) Act 2008, approves Her Majesty's Government's intention to support the adoption of draft European Council decision EUCO 33/10."

The vote was deferred to March 23rd, Budget Day, Division No 236 at Column 1063 here:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110323/debtext/110323-0004.htm

MPs voted 310 - 29 to send Cameron to the European Council the next day with a formal mandate not to negotiate, but to simply agree to the proposed treaty change.

The government claims that the treaty change is not within the scope of the so-called "referendum lock", and so there will be no referendum.

Instead there will just be an Act to finally approve the treaty change, but it's not easy to see how MPs and peers who willingly pre-authorised Cameron to agree to it could subsequently vote against it."

oldtimer

If, as you say, No 10 has only just woken up to the implications of the Greek crisis and what the UK position should be then No 10 is even more incompetent than I thought.

In2minds

As Rhoda Klapp says of Cameron -

"If he stands up to the EU it will be the first time".

And as we all know our Dave does not do standing up. U turns yes, standing up, NO!

Verity

Dave posed for this photo and personally approved it. Tells you much about his judgement. (Although nothing we didn't already know.)

Hexhamgeezer

Cameron wont even march his troops to the top of the hill before surrendering. He will gaze sternly at the peak before handing over our money without a second thought.

and another thing..People like AZ @ 3.44 are utterly shameless. Since when have we been anything but doormats for the EUSSR kleptocracy - that respecter of referendums and the supreme exponents of the Big Lie approach to politics.

ndm

James Forsyth writes:

-- demand a national veto over anything affecting financial services as it is a vital national industry.

A vital national industry? And there I thought he prevailing view was that the financial services sector had grown so large it had damaged Britain by over-concentrating resources. It is long past time when Britain started diverting resources into other business sectors.

strapworld

There is no chance at all that Cameron will do anything to stop the EU advancing. We are now finished as a country. We are trapped because our politicians are weak and self serving. Cameron has to be one of the weakest Prime Ministers we have ever had. I thought Brown was the worst but Cameron is proving to be a road crash.

Weak weak weak.

Baron

you deluding yourself thinking the boy will stand up to the EU by demanding this or the other, this ain’t the time of Mrs. T when things were going smoothly, this a time of a crisis more serious than any of the political gnomes have the capacity to imagine, they’ve lived in their ivory towers for too long, their ability to judge’s gone, the desire to bunch up all of Europe and some more, force a synthetic currency upon it without common treasury functions, get as close to a federal set-up as poss without admitting to it will blow back into their faces soon, luckily for the apparatchiks it won’t be they who’ll suffer, but the hoi polloi of Europe, us uncluding.

TGF UKIP

Amazing isn't it, that James Forsyth continues to write as though Dave was anything other than a committed "Britain at the heart of Europe" europhile.

Even more bizarre is James' notion that the LibDems have anything other than a total lock on this apology for a government's policies.

Still, when you're one of Dave's courtier columnists, there are lines to take and lines to toe.

Cynic

Cameron will make a great show of muttering "no" then hand over a blank cheque behind our backs. With QMV, we'd have no veto anyway. We need to be out asap. The Greek debt crisis is like pouring money into a black hole.

Cynic

I'm not one to advocate a show of force in the usual run of things, but I can't help believing that, when Cameron hands over the lolly claiming he can't do anything about it, we, the taxpayers, should be out on the streets à la grecque.

Verity

Strapworld ... Yes, weak, weak, weak. And greedy, greedy, greedy. And, given his mental wattage, bizarrely over-ambitious.

TomTom

"And there I thought he prevailing view was that the financial services sector had grown so large "

Well if you think 123% expansion in a decade; having a balance sheet 5 times the GDP of the country, and declaring fictional profits is over-expansion you are one of the few sane people around.

The simple fact that financial services spend a fortune on Advertising and Junk Mail is enough to have journalists singing for their supper

disenfranchised

public schoolboys never like to make a fuss. bad form, old boy. one has to always remember that one is an englishman, and rise above all the unintelligible nonsense these EU johnnies emit. pay another 10 or 15 billion pounds over to their estimable club? well of course. has to be for a good cause. another mediterranean lot in a spot of bother, shouldn't wonder. can't be seen to be english meanies after all, can we chaps.....

cokolol

Please help to prevent that another Hitler is borned. Just that. Anythink else doesn't matters. Read this to realize why i'm writting this down: http://www.flockee.com/opinion/adolf-hitler-leadership-style-vs-modern-leaders-style-1/

paulg

This is now the time to strike

strapworld

Do not worry. The EU will save us all:_

BUT DID YOU KNOW WE ARE NOT AN ISLAND?

This garbage is taken from a speech by a VP of the EU Commission, Viviane Reding, Justice Commissioner, which begins as follows:

Brussels, 16 June 2011
Your Excellency Mr. Van Rompuy,
Dear Erika,
Dear Danuta,
Dear Meglena,
Ladies and gentlemen,

AND after much of the usual EU garbage, continues as follows:

Europe is the solution, not the problem. This is the message and the raison d’être of the European Semester. I hear everywhere calls for an economic government. Well, we have set it up. Because we are interdependent also our national economic and financial decisions must be interdependent. After all we are not islands!
That is why the European Semester foresees common economic priorities, a prior monitoring of all national budget proposals. Can you imagine if a few years ago we would have asked to control national policy measures and their financing structures? It would have been a unanimous “never, never, ever”! Today, we do it. It is this European Commission that put this economic governance in place. It is this European Commission which assesses it and monitors the commitments made in terms of sound budgets, structural reforms and growth-enhancing measures.
Simply put, we are putting Europe’s economic house in order.
This should therefore not be the time for self-flagellation or negativism. It should be the time for strong determination and self-confidence. If we are all responsible – responsible in our words, responsible in our action – Europe has a good chance to get out of the crisis stronger than it was before."

Perry

@ Strapworld – you Sir, in your excerpt of contemptible EUSSR verbiage, have provided a partial solution …

This should therefore not be the time for self-flagellation

Au contraire! Let there be self-flagellation, - and plenty of it, starting with the U-Turning H2B, and continuing on through the wreckers who have brought us to this pass. It should be a daily event, administered with a contrite heart, and performed in public.

The gushing PR machine grafted on the back of the H2B, also deserves a dose.

sean byrne

Is this the final confirmation of Lady Thatcher's opinion; the trouble with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples'money?

Dimoto

These blog-posts on the irrelevent (defence spending, immigration, EU ....), for a country teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, de-education and chaos, (that's the UK, not Greece), are therapeutic for the "soldiers of the primitive right", and should be taken three times a day, after meals.

Rhoda Klapp

Dimoto, it is reasonable to talk about defence spending when the government is starting wars we can't pay for. It is reasonable to discuss immigration when we have a large number of unemployed and no jobs for them. It is reasonable to link the EU to our taking on responsibility for other countrys' debts when we have to borrow the money to do so. Yes, the economy is our biggest problem , but it is in such a state for wider reasons.

TomTom

"for a country teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, "

Yes Dimoto, and Angela Merkel seems hellbent on destroying Germany. There are MdBs now ready to block her and bring her down. The destruction of German democracy has been achieved by the CDU/CSU/FDP regime and German voters are spitting blood at the destruction of their savings and price stability. Inflation is going to be the hallmark of the German future