Major proposals on the future of Scotland

Jack Simpson

He must feel a quiet sense of vindication following his warnings all those years ago that devolution would set Scotland on a path to indication all those years ago.

Charles Martel

John Major has been the biggest disaster for Conservatism in the last 60 years.

He is the guy that wants Conservatives to go into permanent coalition with the LibDems, they guy is a spanner with a history of seriously flawed judgement (ERM, Currie, Baxter Basics etc).

If they want people from outside politics, whey don't they support open primaries?
Because they are not serious, 'outside politics' means people who are unelectable obtaining power without the accountability... there lies the path to totalitarianism.

Let the Scots have their referendum, they will be bankrupt within 5 years - they will also be a NET contributor to the EU - with no Barnett to fill their sporrans.

Right On

Have to say it's great to hear a sensible and structured unionist response. As a Scot who strongly backs the union I've long felt the issues that has to be resolved is how Scotland can be competitive against the South East of England without the ability to manage it's own tax rates. (This is equally true for Wales and the North of England).

Major's proposals seem like a step in the right direction.

Davey L.S

I think there is some merit in the ideas being put forward, and they are a good starting point for any discussion about the slowly changing relationship in the union. I think one thing is for sure, there will be some type of change, best to see if it can be done in a manner that suits all involved, we should not be scared to consider all options.

TrevorsDen

I think its a fair point to say that fiscal autonomy is the only way to encourage responsible politics and economics in Scotland.
I cannot see the point of having a so called government which only spends other peoples money - money given it from a communal pot. It just blames someone else for any failings in its service.
However I would disagree quite violently if all we got was just some sort of collecting taxes that might have been generated in scotland by means of westminster subsidies.

This rather begs the question of just how Scotland does raise its own revenue without having some knock on effect on England.

Equally would Scotland be allowed to run its own deficit and be responsible for it?

Reprieved Soul

2 points :
First It is not acceptable to link reduction in scots' representation to 'economic policy' being retained at W/minster. Scottish and English/Welsh/Irish economics may not align, and political will will differ.
Secondly - if major wants to introduce 'non-political- expertise to the HoC (a VERY good idea) he can look to Scotland, where the PR 'List' system facilitates appointment on merit and competence above political guile.

Fergus Pickering

The List System means that people can be elected as MPs who would not have a snowball's chance under a direct system You say because they are men (and women ) of wort and competence, I say because they are flabby place men (and women) with about as much personality and charisma as a dead jellyfish - somebody like Baroness Ashton or Rumpy-Pumpy say.

Mirtha Tidville

I think John Major has made a good point and a timely one. It is a problem that has to be faced head on and whereas at one time I would have said, never, to breaking up the union. Now I have a different view, I`m sick of the whinging and whining from north of the border, and irrespective of the monies involved, let them have their independence and be gone with them, providing of course the majority of Scots vote for it......now thats point to ponder isnt it Mr Salmon?????

strapworld

Charles Martell states "John Major has been the biggest disaster for Conservatism in the last 60 years". sir, Have you forgotten HEATH?

But I find it rather fitting that Cameron takes advice from Major and is regarded by many as the modern day 'Heath'.

That said. There is great sense in what Major proposes. We must face it that Scotland has to be allowed to follow what it looks like it wants, and the proposal that they have fewer MP's in Westminster is both logical and will seriously upset Labour which is the greatest reason to go along with the proposal.

I also agree with my old pal TrevorsDen who says that Scotland must be responsible for its own deficit, especially when it comes back to us with its tail between its legs.

DavidDP

"John Major has been the biggest disaster for Conservatism in the last 60 years".

Thatcher was worse. She signed us up to the Single European Act, the biggest surrender of sovereignty since WW2 and paving the way for every subsequent move to closer EU integration.

lola

@righton - and it's currency; but not the Euro, obviously. Having competing currencies in the UK would be excllent as it might well let the Poor Bloody Taxpayer see how the political class is stealing from them.

TrevorsDen

Are they putting something funny in our tea strapworld.

You are a bit hard on Major, thohgh your point is not unfair.

Brown Smith Kinnock the LDs were all in favour of the ERM which is where all his problems started.
The conservative party is different now, not only is it broadly eurosceptic it does not demonstrate any intention of imploding over the EU.
Very wise - though the current Euro crisis does demonstrate that not having anything to do with something does not insulate you from it.

TomTom

Obviously scrapping the Barnett Formula and treating Scotland no better than Yorkshire is logical. Instead Major returned the Stone of Scone in a p r stunt when PM.

Scotland should fund itself and get its West Coast welfare junkies to work. They should be banned from claiming welfare south of the border

escapedRoger

The British isles, a group of small self-administered nations only united by defence, foreign(external policy)representation ,and the Crown. Makes a lot of sense but getting the Irish back on board will be difficult.

strapworld

TD. Major was hailed by Trades union leaders I knew back then as a great negotiator! He certainly would have made a good poker player-not even the late News of the World had anything on him and Edwina.

Where is Norma these days?

Baron

We might as well give the Scots what they want, the rest to the EU, and be done with it.

Cynic

" [T]he Scottish Parliament and Executive should be handed powers over everything apart from foreign, defence and economic policy. In exchange for this, the Scots would accept a reduction in the number of Scottish seats at Westminster." Why stop there? Why not make them fully independent - then they could fund their own free health care for the elderly, reduced or free prescriptions, free university tuition etc and with no MPs at Westminster they would stop making laws that only apply south of the border. I was strongly against devolution but as it's happened, we might as well take it to its logical conclusion. An English Parliament for English affairs, please.

Pete

Who is the bloke in sunglasses sticking out his tongue at the Great Pudding?

Publius

I would prefer an arrangement where there were no Scots MPs at all in the House of Commons. So let us give the Scots whatever it takes to secure that outcome.

HampsteadOwl

@Pete

Looks like Liddle to me.

DZ

Who are the Scots, exactly?

I can trace my scots ancestry each male generation back to the time when parish registers were started. And they still live in the same place near Gleneagles. But I live in England. Am I 'scottish'?

My family's feeling is that we are now too mixed up on these islands to claim a real difference: my father is from Hamilton, but he was born in London. My grandfather was born in Edinburgh. My paternal grandmother was Cornish. My maternal grandfather was Irish, my maternal grandmother was English.

Can't we just go about things as is normal on most islands? Even though my scots relations vote SNP.

Laurence

Charles Martel clearly cannot distinguish between 'Scots' and the 'inhabitants of Scotland'. There are a great many English men and women who live there: presumably he also objects to them stuffing moolah into their Morris dancer outfits?

Chris

"From the quotes published in the Sunday Telegraph, it is not quite clear if Major is advocating full fiscal autonomy for Scotland."

If he actually understands what he is saying and is correctly reported, his suggestion must be equivalent to taxation-side autonomy, because he suggests that "everything but foreign, defence and economic policy" should be devolved, and if you add the benefit system, taxation and certain constitutional matters to that list, that is the position which more or less exists at the moment under the Scotland Act 1998, even before the Calman amendments. (The Calman amendments for the first time give some taxation devolution going beyond the existing council taxation).

Clearly he doesn't intend economic functions to be devolved which would require Scotland to have a central bank and its own currency, so he must presumably be proposing most taxation matters to be devolved.

It is a somewhat incoherent contribution, at least as reported by the Telegraph, so as you suggest it looks like a bit of kite flying; but that does not make it unimportant.

Dean

Something I don't understand; if the Scots government have tax-raising powers there will be a price differential across the border for any goods so taxed. What will stop massive cross-border smuggling? A closed border?

taraxacum

I thought Scotland had some tax-raising powers already - the ability to levy an additional 3p in the pound income tax. Why don't they use that power as a starter - oh I know, they wouldn't get re-elected.

TomTom

"the ability to levy an additional 3p in the pound income tax. Why don't they use that power as a starter"

Because Salmond wants the power to levy that tax on English taxpayers to fund Scotland

Man in a Shed

This is slow motion independence for Scotland. The only solution that can save the UK is a federal UK with an English Parliament and government. Anything less will lead to fission.

Dimoto

DZ - exactly.

Helping Salmond achieve his goal, (James Forsyth's penultimate paragraph), would be a gross betrayal of all those decent, measured Scots who have been loyal to the union.

Conservatives ALWAYS exaggerate the importance of defence and foreign policy, for a small island with waining influence and little threat - how about keeping the fiscal union intact and devolving defence and foreign policy ? Would make more sense.

BTW, any truth in the rumour that people close to Miliband and Balls are trying to persuade the Brownster to lead Labour Scotland against Salmond ?
Brown's eyes must have lit up when he heard that the government are considering full fiscal/economic autonomy.
Of course, the LibDems would push hard for this.

Angus McLellan

@Dean: If you were to buy a packet of cigarettes in New York City, the tax on them would be nearly six dollars. Outside the city boundary in New York State it would be a bit over four dollars and in New Jersey less than three dollars. I'm don't know how the USA copes with having endless variations in taxes on cigarettes, alcohol and fuel, but it does. The problem shouldn't be that difficult to deal with.

Stephen Gash

Too much is being made of the SNP's victory in Holyrood. Labour gave the SNP a thrashing in the 2005 & 2010 general elections. In both, the SNP only won six seats. This is especially significant for 2010 because it was after 4 years SNP rule in Holyrood with Salmond as First Minister.

The SNP has no mandate for an independence referendum, it only has a mandate to screw even more money out of England. Regardless of party every MP in England should be demanding the pretendy-inde SNP has its referendum this year.

For the SNP to destabilise things during this ongoing economic crisis is unacceptable. We need to get the economy back on track for 62 million people, not pandering to 36% of 5 million.

If any pandering is to be done then it should be to the 63% of people in England wanting an English parliament. We are denied a referendum for absolutely no good reason. We can have it this year while the Scots are voting "no" in their independence referendum.

Then with an English parliament focusing on England's needs, England can come top of the spending ladder instead of the bottom for a change.

We can make a start by having 21st century coastal defences along England's east coast because floods like those in 1953 will devastate 16.5 million people, more than the combined populations of Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland.

Ian

I can't believe the overt rascism against Scots at this site (or anyone who is not English who is caught in the crossfire) : filling sporrans, west coast subsidy junkies etc ? Why not take a look at yourself to really find out where the anger is coming from.