Breivik and the right

David Lindsay

Douglas Murray's Neoconservatism: Why We Need It manages not to mention Trotskyism or Max Shachtman at all in its supposed study of its subject; that's Leo Strauss for you, I suppose. And on page 170, we read that, "As soon as blond Swedish men get into the habit of plotting and committing acts of terrorism against Western society, then blond Swedish men should be stopped and searched."

So, that's still all right, then. Isn't it? Don't you believe it. These matters are in the hands of people who cannot tell an Arab from a Somali, from a South Asian, from, in one notable case, a Brazilian. So blond Norwegian men are by no means the only people who now need to give Britain a very wide berth indeed. Or have I missed something?

Pot Head

"even people who do not themselves advocate violence … swell the sea in which violence swims" Melanie Phillips

http://bit.ly/nBT6T8

Anthony

Where exactly did Breivik describe himself as an islamophobic racist? From what I read, he explicitly rejected ethnocentrism and racism.

Austin Barry

“Norway’s Prime Minister was right when he said that the response to this atrocity should be ‘more democracy, more openness, and more humanity’."

He was right, but how can that worthy proposition be reconciled with Breivik's court appearance being held, exceptionally for Norway, in camera?

James Delingpole

Which part of that phrase "get into the habit of" don't you understand, David?

Robbo

'There are, it goes without saying, ways to discuss this. But in recent years that discussion has not always been as open as it should have been.'

We can thank, in large part, the NUJ for their rules on how their members report on these matters. Put your own house in order first please.

bojimbo

Why are there so many articles about a Norwegian murderer ?

Andy Carpark

David Lindsay - You posted the above verbal salmagundi three times on Monday: on American Conservative at 3:00 pm (blog time), on your own bog at 20:54 and on Nick Cohen's blog at 21:11. It did not reward examination then. It rewards no more examination now. You are a pisseur de copie.

Stephen Gash

I'm an anti-Islamist and English nationalist and my group, SIOE, was reortedly named in Breivik's documents. The first thing that struck me was the media and political frenzy to link Breivik with English (not British) nationalists. Naturally the epithet "far right" is attached to all things English. Why is it the murderous Irish nationalist groups who regularly committed mass murders were never called "fascists" or "far right"? To many English nationalists Sinn Fein is the first fascist party to be elected to power in the United Kingdom.
How strange that Breivik had a Facebook profile in Norwegian for years that did not mention Christianity, then not long before his terrorist actions (that is how they are being treated by Norway's authorities presently) a second one appeared in perfect English saying he was a Christian and had links to spurious groups like the Knights Templar. Such an organisation doesn't exist as far as I know. By the way the original Knights Templar were anti-English, legend has it they fought against the English at Bannockburn.
Breivik was allegedly on drugs while on his murderous rampage. Were they self-administered or by somebody else? I know a lot about the anti-Islamist movement and this man appeared out of nowhere. He has all the hallmarks of Stasi-style drug-induced brainwashing and it is notable he admired jihadists. I am pleased his case is being held behind closed doors. Mass murderers forfeit the right to a public platform. It is a pity that peaceful, lawful protestors are denied a platform by warmongering politicians and truth-economic media, however.
I have had at least three interviews since the Norway attacks that have not been broadcast. This is because I declared Breivik had no links to our group and there would be no violence perpetrated by anti-Islamist or English nationalist groups.
I have been proven correct on my first assertion and am confident about my second.

Bob Dixon

So when did we or the norwegians,authorise our governments to allow entry to so many immigrants?

Rhoda Klapp

I will be surprised if the Norwegian PM opens a debate on immigration in his country. I think his intention is the opposite of what he said. I think it more likely that any such discussion will be categorised as allowing poisonous views to be spread, and so shut down. In that case, what is any person who is suspicious of immigration (or does not see the harm/good balance the same way as the government) to do?

Jonathan Anthony

Witness the borderline insane accusations of 'responsibility' being levelled by US socialist war reporter Chris Hedges at the likes of Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens...

statechaos

Excellent article. Jeremy Paxman's treatment of the leader of the EDL on Newsnight typified this response. Norwegian authorities have now stated there is no evidence of any links between Breivik and the EDL and despite the EDL leader's denial all Paxman was interested in was discrediting the organisation. They may not be the most appealing bunch of people but they have legitimate concerns which need to be addressed. Still, what else would you expect from the BBC other than the smear tactics of Paxman.

pjt

bojimbo, good question. Why is a Norwegian murderer getting so much attention? Why is this case big news?

I'd say it is because we have actually learned to be "islamophobes" but we aren't ready to be silenced by narcistic manics. If a Muslim extremist blows up bombs and kills people, we have been taught that it's normal and natural, and he cannot act otherwise. We only should consider leaving Iraq or leaving Afghanistan or stopping any support to Israel. We have been taught that terrorism works.

Perhaps Breivik's case now could teach us that we can stop terrorism from working. We shouldn't react to it by taking away guns from people or censoring the Internet any more than we should react to it by admitting that social democrats are an enemy.

The best action is to do nothing, and then Breivik has accomplished nothing.

Ahmed Khan

@Bojimbo

‘’Why are there so many articles about a Norwegian murderer ?’’

Could it be because he is a deranged nutter who killed so many innocent people.!!!!

whatawaste

bojimbo
July 28th, 2011 12:54pm

Why are there so many articles about a Norwegian murderer ?
---------------------------

To deflect all attention away from the upcoming EU summit meeting about settling the 2012 EU budget increases perhaps....

Tilly

Douglas Murray:

I suspect a great many "ifs" and "buts" would have been raised by Christian fundamentalists and right-wing commentators had Breivik targeted an Oslo mosque followed by a Muslim summer camp.

"Oh dear, the poor fellow was obviously driven mad with despair by the imminent collapse of his world at the hands of Islamist fanatics aided and abetted by a sinister Marxist agenda. Of course what he did was atrocious, BUT...

"... IF ONLY proper heed had been taken of him (and dozens of like-minded, entirely rational contributors to Spectator blogs, etc), this might never have happened..."

Within hours, I suggest, Breivik would have had no shortage of apologists and the internet would have been awash with "theories" that the mosque was a platform for jihadist orators, the summer camp a recruiting ground for terrorists.

Frank P

From a Canuk pal:

Subject: What Confucius Didn't Say

CONFUCIUS DIDN'T SAY

"Man who wants pretty nurse, must be patient."

"Passionate kiss, like spider web, leads to undoing of fly".

"Lady who goes camping must beware of evil intent".

"Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion".

"Man who runs in front of car gets tired, man who runs behind car gets exhausted".

"Man who eats many prunes get good run for money".

"War does not determine who is right, it determines who is left".

"Man who fight with wife all day get no piece at night..."

"Man who drives like hell is bound to get there".

"Man who stands on toilet is high on pot".

Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement".

Finally CONFUCIUS SAY. . .

"A lion will not cheat on his wife, but a Tiger Wood!"

Sov_Res

It's a shame that Douglas Murray's cowardice leads him to validate the entirely vacuous term "Islamophobia" in an otherwise excellent analysis.

Charles Delalande

"Just as it is wrong to lump all Muslims into a single homogenous block, is it not also wrong to group all white-working-class people together?"

Too right. But in February 2006, Douglas Murray declared in a speech to the Pim Fortuyn Memorial Conference on Europe and Islam that "conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board". That sounds pretty much like grouping people together.

Ahmed Khan

Thanks Douglas Murray, I very much like and share your views.

It would be really great to have a honest debate on immigration.

However, I find that our politicians are too scared to have such a debate and appear too worried to be labeled as racist. There is absolutely nothing racist about debating Immigration. Why our politicians are so ‘touchy’ is baffling. Maybe it’s because they are hiding facts.

We do need to know more about :-

Legal Immigration
Illegal Immigration
Migrant Workers
Asylum seekers

I also think that the EEC which is happy to impose trivial issues onto us (like Cornish pasty can only be called Cornish pasty if made in Cornwall) need to get off their backside and deliver a common EEC –wide policy on Asylum seekers.

Although, genuine Asylum seekers, should be happy in any country which offer them a safe haven, it is clear their first choice is always the UK. Why should they have a choice?

wycombewanderer

Several left wing posters on the bbc also tried to find guilt by association for Clarkson and Philips.
Frankly I'm surprised they didn't go further, after all Clarkson is 'one of the Chipping Norton set', so is Cameron, Cameron must have known' That is their level.
Incidentally reports suggest Breivik was listening to the soundtrack for The Lord of the Rings whilst committing those atrcities. That Frodo Baggins, I always thought he was a wrong un!

Tom Pride

“The agendas as well as the hypocrisy are rank.”

Yes.

Austin Barry asks: “how can that worthy proposition be reconciled with Breivik's court appearance being held, exceptionally for Norway, in camera?”

Can we expect the BBC or Channel 4 to get a transcript of the proceedings and have some actors perform it out for us? They will, won’t they?

It can’t be that the Oxygen of Publicity has some credibility now.

FvH

The Norwegian nutter was a big fan of ex Speccie writer Melanie Philips (is it a coincidence that she was axed just before his killing spree)!!??

Stuart Seacole Smith

Thanks DM for this well thought out article. Though I'm not sure how Breivik's actions might suddenly deprive us of this public conversation - legitimate debate was pushed underground long ago; the worst that can happen is more of the same, with perhaps just a smidge more invective from the left.

Anyway, personally I've been finding it hard to reconcile my revulsion and sadness at the atrocities in Norway with an increasing sense of anger and disgust with the mainstream left-liberal establishment (Breivik's target), and its lap-dog media (hello BBC, CNN), in the handling of the aftermath. I don't think I've ever disliked them more or respected them less than I do now. They just love having it both ways.

Rhoda Klapp: spot on - the Norwegian PM doesn't strike me as having any intention whatsoever of fostering transparency or having an honest debate. To put it kindly I think he's being "economical with the truth", and is more part of the problem than the solution. His party's policies are set in stone and will never change.

Pot Head - back to the weed for you my man! ..."You have done something to your brain. You have made it high. If I lay 10 mils of diazepam on you, it will do something else to your brain. You will make it low. Why trust one drug and not the other? That's politics, isn't it?..." - I'm sure you recognise the quote? Or too addled? It's from one of my favourite films.

Frank P: I'm not sure if this was the thread you intended to post you quips on? But since we're at it: why do seagulls live by the sea? Because if they lived by the bay they'd be bagels.

Apologies for the bagel thing.

frosty the polar bear

As a mere bear,
it seeems to me that whilst agreeing with the view that this verminis both insane, and evil, it surely has to be noted, that the vast majority of his venom was directed at the governing labour party, and it's almost open door policy om immigration, and asylum.
Which is why he wanted to kill as many of it's future party leadership as he could.
One wonders if the Norwegian government,in common with many other governments in the EU ought to remember they are there to govern, NOT rule.
Governance, surely means keeping the country going along, day by day, and NOT changing the very societal make-up of the nation, at least not before, perhaps by holding a referendum on the subject.
To do something so permanent, that will continue many years after the period they were elected for, without consulting the resident population is merely an example of absolute rule.
Whilst these political elitists have been able to get away with never being brought to account for these arrogances, they might well now think that retribution may be sought, by those so minded, as to follow this vile mans actions.
toodle pip.

Keith

It was interesting and, I think, telling, that news of Breivik's attacks and his 'poliitcs' was covered in the same papers as reported Vince Cable's remarks to the effect that U.S. public spending was being restricted by a few "right-wing nutters" in Congress.

The message therefore seems to be that you can always tell the right-wing nutters: they're the ones who want to murder lots of innocent people, possibly with assault rifles but possibly also by the more insidious means of putting a cap on public spending. Same peole, different tactics.

cuffleyburgers

A good article I think, however the fact is there is no peaceful way forward for people frustrated by the serial incompetence and treachery of their governments.

In the UK the situation is even worse than in Norway - at least in Norway there is a sovereign elected government.

In the Uk the sovereign power is an unelected autarky aided and abetted by what is essentially a front organisation which has periodic elections which give the voter a choice between three parties who all believe essentially the same things, and in any case as we see more and more clearly, policy is made by the civil service which has been captured by Brussels.

The "government" occasionally pretends to listen and even more occasionally to change course but never you will notice on anything that has been decreed by Brussels, and since that represents an ever larger proportion of our new laws, will become ever harder to hide but it doesn't matter because with this new atrocity the "government" has a brand new excuse to crack down on dissenting voices.

Breivik plainly had a major beef with the ruling party of his country, and there are plenty of people in this country who share his frustrations, and for similar reasons.

Luckily it has not happened here yet. But I cannot see how it can be anything other than a question of time before it does.

And the cowards, traitors and incompetent poltroons who call themselves our "government" will have brought it upon themselves.

TomTom

"it would have been clear to anyone who bothered to question him that Breivik was insane."

Really ? And there I was thinking it was a medical term rather than journalistic hyperbole.

Not having met the man I cannot attest to his mental fitness, but I know it would be terribly convenient for many people if he never stood trial and was simply incarcerated in a "mental institution" and drugged to oblivion as in the good old USSR.

We live in a world where NATO has repeatedly bombed civilians since coming off the rails in 1990 but apparently the operatives and policymakers are "sane". Quite why eludes me. Do sane people commit insane acts ?

Frank P

My apologies for the o/t post above, I thought I was on the Wall.

FvH

Perhaps you'd like to ask her if she has stopped beating her husband? And you are about a week late anyway. Dickhead!

Tom Pride

I have been more concerned about the consequences of Breivik’s, murderous rampage than others seem to be. I think it is too easy, head-in-sand – to dismiss him as mad. I was going to keep my thoughts on this to myself until Rhoda Klapp made the point:

“I think it more likely that any such discussion will be categorised as allowing poisonous views to be spread, and so shut down. In that case, what is any person who is suspicious of immigration (or does not see the harm/good balance the same way as the government) to do?”

Is not this closing down of the debate what the Left have been doing over the last few years? If there is no public discussion permitted and if no political representation for these views exists in the democratic process then what is the answer to Rhoda’s question?

To my mind the Dunblane gunman was mad; the Hungerford gunman and others like him ran amok. But, the IRA, 9/11 perpetrators and Breivik had political agendas behind their criminal acts. Murderous, evil but not necessarily mad.

What troubles me is that Breivik answers Rhoda’s question, but, not in a simplistic fashion one might expect – an attack on the immigrants themselves. No, he attacked the people who he held (collectively) responsible for the policies which permitted the immigration and the changes to his society he objected to and who prevented him from opposing those policies in any meaningful political way. Revenge, a demonstration of his hatred of the political class, murderous frustration hitting back, an example to inspire others?

A perverted logic along the lines of the IRA but not mad.

Breivik frightens me. Nationality is a highly emotional subject giving rise to great passions. After all, in times of War the State itself expects its citizens to die to protect and secure its future. We know concern over changes to our society are causing concern and resentment. Brick Lane/ Soho bombers show such people as Breivik exist here as well. It’s a combustible mix and I hope that those responsible for protecting us take this more seriously than just dismissing him as mad.

Tom Pride

Could I just point out that the comments above have been appearing in a weird order, nothing remotely like chronological order. If / when my second comment appears – please note that it was written and posted before I read several of the above comments.

Cuffleyburgers and frosty the polar bear (and others) are spot on. It is why I believe that dismissing Breivik as mad is a mistake and why the possible consequences frighten me.

ndm

Douglas Murray writes:

-- Conversation on vital topics was driven underground - and not only among the disenfranchised. I have lost count of the number of times that politicians of all parties have told me something only to say that of course they could never say any such thing in public. Such censorship, including self-censorship, hugely benefits extremists. Subterranean conversations are what people like Breivik thrive on, with their claims to membership of nonexistent mystical orders and their love-hate affairs with imaginary world conspiracies.

This is, of course, pretty rich in a magazine which routinely censored any criticism of Melanie Phillips and which, in doing so, absorbed some responsibility for her love-hate affair with imaginary world conspiracies and their now tragic consequence.

ndm

cuffleyburgers write:

-- Breivik plainly had a major beef with the ruling party of his country, and there are plenty of people in this country who share his frustrations, and for similar reasons.

-- Luckily it has not happened here yet. But I cannot see how it can be anything other than a question of time before it does.

-- And the cowards, traitors and incompetent poltroons who call themselves our "government" will have brought it upon themselves.

The road from concern through warning by hope to threat is well-travelled.

Wrong way round

Tom Pride, I think you'll find the State expects its citizens to kill, it't the other side that's meant to die, in time of war to protect and secure its future. Which by the way is being done right now by the British state, in Libya and Afghanistan.

We're so nice, we kill to protect and secure other people's future.

Kennybhoy

bojimbo on July 28th, 2011 12:54pm

Words fail me...

Simon

Tom Pride - You seem to be suggesting that if a perpetrator is mad he cannot be culpable; that mad cannot be bad. But madness does not necessarily dissolve one's moral sense, even if one tries madly to justify one's wicked deeds.

MikeF

"The Labour MP Tom Harris observed, with great frankness, that a ‘palpable relief that swept through the left when the identity of the terrorist was made known… Here, thank God, was a terrorist we can all hate without equivocation: white, Christian and far right-wing. Phew.’"

Hold on if a Conservative MP commenting on an act of mass murder had said: "Here, thank God, was a terrorist we can all hate without equivocation: black..." Well that is as far as they would have got before the whole punitive, multi-culturalist enforcement machine came down on him like the proverbial ton of bricks with calls for resignation or dismissal and even prosecution under 'hate speech' laws. Why haven't these words produced a similar reaction? I won't bother answering that question but I think it is fair to observe that they reveal the nasty, censorious and to use a term the left love to apply to others 'hate-filled' nature of so much of the thinking that for some reason genuinely seems to believe it represents tolerance and 'diversity'.

C Cole

Note to sub-editor: Thirsts are slaked, not sated.

AY

By using "Islamophobia", Douglas Murray opens another anecdotic case of liberal degeneration (aka Nick Cohen et all).

Pat Condell's "Violence is not the answer" is a bit better, but still leaves unsatisfactory feeling.

In the core, the message is primitive.

It is impossible anymore to ignore in society the burden of oligarchic nomenclature rule ("SOB-in-charge style"), erosion of European ways, bastardization of democracy, sanctifying parasitism and romanticizing crime, siege put on humanistic ethos, and on top, continuing Islamic colonization.

It isn't surprising that fastest disfigurement goes on in the oil-sucking socialist Norway, where "fiat money" mentality long ago transformed national elite into a herd of instinctive cud-chewers.

So the question is, what if I don't want it. Don't want the voting without choice, don't want life in fear, don't want children to be taught lies, don't want to see national shame, soldiers betrayed, girls raped by Muslm gangs, old and sick left to rot at mercy of illiterate subhuman "nurses", tax money spent to feed foreign barbarians and sponsor terrorist enclaves at home and abroad.

Well, violence not the answer, agree.
What is?

John

I think a couple of points need clarifying here. As well as Melanie Phillips, Jeremy Clarkson, Mark Steyn, Theodore Dalrymple and other conservative writers, Breivik also quoted freely from, among others, Gandhi, Churchill, John Locke, Orwell, Jefferson, Edmund Burke, Bernard Shaw, Mark Twain, the US Declaration of Independence and Darwin. Odd how the left-wing commentators (and commenters on this post) fail to mention this ragbag of loony right-wing nutcakes.

Secondly: consider what happened. A deranged white Scandinavian went berserk and killed a lot of other white Scandinavians. As far as I know, there was not a Muslim among the victims, nor was any Muslim mosque targeted. In what sense were these crimes "Islamophobic"? And why has Mr Murray, along with many other otherwise intelligent commentators, meekly gone along with allowing the issue to be hijacked in this way by others who have their own particular axes to grind and arguing on their terms, rather than on the facts as they stand?
Just askin'.

Ian Walker

I don't sympaphise with Breivik or his actions at all.

But I will say that the reaction of the Norwegian left, or at least the ones given voice by the BBC, was very odd. To a man, they described the killings on the island as being a loss to their party, or a loss of 'future leaders'

Baron

gene mutation in the billions of us cannot but throw up the occasional chromosome that’s totally vacuous of what makes us human, rational thought, the feeling of empathy, what the man did doesn’t lend itself to any rational explanation, doesn’t contain a shred of empathy, blind insanity offers itself as the only possible cause, one cannot legislate against it, which of course won’t prevent many to have a go, one can only deal with its consequences as best as one can, hope it ain’t widespread.

Melanie’s take on it is about right:

http://melaniephillips.com/fanaticism-mass-murder-and-the-left

and what MikeF says, it encapsulates in few sentences the festering rot calling itself the progressive Left.

David Lindsay

wycombewanderer, as Andy Carpark will doubtless confirm, I wrote the following on Monday:

Much comment on Anders Behring Breivik's favourable quotations from the Daily Mail column of Melanie Phillips. But Melanie Phillips is nowhere near any centre of power.

Whereas Breivik also quotes favourably from the Sun and Sunday Times contributions of Jeremy Clarkson. Yet there is little or no comment on that.

How odd.

Remind me, who owns the Sun and the Sunday Times? And of which very prominent politician indeed is Clarkson not only a near neighbour, but also a very close personal friend?

The Masked Marvel

How refreshing to read a bit of common sense about this as opposed to the venom spouted by Nick Cohen.

Mike

Anyone who believes the militant left can be objective is clearly delusional and needs a reality check.

The only consistency we see from this bunch of fascists is the diversion of blame when some Islamic nutter carry out terrorist acts but a full on attack against the right if just one nutter goes amok. Unlike Muslim terrorist that claim Islam as their motivation, killers like Breivik are just your regular nut job not connected to any right wing organization.

Whatever your views of right wing groups like the BNP or EDL, not a one has been involved in a terrorist act of the sort we've seen from Islams 'best' in New York, London or Madrid but the left trot out the same old excuses of why they acted as they did instead of saying as it is.

Whether its Breivik or Islamic suicide bombers, they're not that different in being mentally unhinged and would be better put down as you would a rabid dog.

Baron

AY @ 10.28:

sir, there’s no definite answer to your question, I reckon, only time will bring the solution, whether one should wait for it with horror or joy is anyone’s guess.

a Red Menace construct inimical to human nature collapsed in the East about two decades ago, it imploded primarily not because the decoupling of those governed from those in charge got to a point where the former didn’t want to carry on any more, the latter couldn’t, it self-destructed because its economic base rotted, couldn’t support it.

in the West, we ain’t at the same juncture yet, the transfer of private debt unto the balance sheet of countries is likely to pull us through, however, unless the underlying take on wealth creation vis-à-vis its distribution reverses in favour of the former, an unlikely event what with even the US moving closer to the European economic model, the future doesn’t look particularly rosy ten, twenty years hence. When the day comes, it will be events that will puncture the grand project of pan-Europe, the culture of entitlements, the stuff that you don’t want, people will abandon emotions as the prime engine of decision making at the level of governance, will begin to to rely more on cool, rational thinking again, painful as it may be to many.

Cameo Parkway Kid

And of which very prominent politician indeed is Clarkson not only a near neighbour, but also a very close personal friend????

Unsurprising?? What is not surprising, according to a West Country source of mine who is on the verge of whistleblowing, never mind the official secrets act, Breivik is friends on FB with 32 Tory MP's. It appears Christian Fundamentalism runs deep through Scumsucker HQ.

Kennybhoy

Cameo Parkway Kid on July 29th, 2011 11:58am

Please tell me that this is parody...?

AY

Baron

It seems, you just tend to rely on somebody's benevolence. Don't forget, this is luxury only winners can afford, - and after dust settles. Prospective recipients might not survive trouble.

Certainly there exists acceptable intermediate paradigm that would allow easing tensions and prevent loss of life, - although Speccie moderators always block the comment when see the word. Apartheid, Israeli model. In this or that form, it is inevitable anyway. Quietly and systematically, just start building it now, - damage minimization task, defensive project of the West. Rather than to allow "time" as you say, to erect a nomads dominated multi-Mordor madhouse by blueprints of AlQaeda et all.

Mark Vero

"So even before he planted a car bomb in a civilian area and gunned down scores of young people, it would have been clear to anyone who bothered to question him that Breivik was insane." This is a very poor understanding from Douglas Murray who I usually cannot fault. Douglas Murray is usually brilliant but I have a great deal of experience of psychiatry and psychiatric diagnosis and would advise not to comment on such issues without specific education and experience. This was meticulously planned and executed, these are not hallmarks of insanity.

Andy Gill

Douglas Murray is right. The reactions of the left to this outrage have exposed their double standards and terminal hypocrisy.

What has not really been discussed is their own complicity in the crime. The Gordon Brown/Gillian Duffy Bigotgate affair was emblematic of the left's denial of the social and cultural problems caused by massive immigration. The Norwegian PM has claimed his response to Breivik's act will be 'more democracy'. Will that include a voice for those in favour of ending large-scale immigration and abandoning multiculturalism?

Somehow I doubt it.

Kim Gandy

Like all the media, you really have NOT done your homework on this have you? You have either: a) Never done an in-depth investigation into the connection of the labour camp youth with Hamas or b) Have bothered to do it but just don't want to print the truth for reasons best known to yourselves. I am the last person on earth to advocate violence and utterly detest any kind of terrorism. But look at the whole picture and REPORT the truth, if you are at all capable.

John Edwards

As well as the Melanie Phillips link also interesting is the connection to Pamela Geller the US blogger and Tea Party nutjob

Peter F

Very late, I know.....
Just to say that I liked DM's article; and...

Ref "Pot Head", 28th july above (2nd comment down): the rest of the quote from Melanie Phillips is:

It refuses to acknowledge that even people who do not themselves advocate violence but who promote extremist and seditious views, such as the overthrow of British society and the imposition of Islamic sharia law, are a threat to this country by inciting hatred and resentment, thus swelling the sea in which violence swims.

That bit, in bold, left out, is pretty significant.

None of those on the anti-Jihad side of the fence are doing anything like this. Quite the opposite, in fact, they are fighting back against such extremist and seditious views, by, in the main, simply pointing them out. The most quoted of those in Breivik's "manifesto", Robert Spencer, has consistently and repeatedly voiced opposition to violence.. So, in short, I don't see the critics of Islam as "swelling the sea in which violence swims".