The Met is struggling to cope — it needs support

Serguei Poliakov

The problem is that the possible punishment for those who might get caught is not severe enough to be a deterrent. And the criminals know that as what police does is always under the microscope, their personal health and life is not in danger.

I wonder, if the police does not get on top of this, would there be some kind of vigilante groups? We already head reports of Turkish and Kurdish shop keepers fighting the looters.

strapworld

Mr Hoskin. The police in this country police by consent. The ratio of police officers to public would obviously amaze commentators such as you. If mass outbreaks of criminality occur on the scale of last night it would need a vast army to contain it. It is time that you are your fellow commentators grasped that simple fact.

That said. The leadership of the police, the role of the police and the gradual weakening of police powers over many years, and via successive governments, must demand a drastic re-think.

To restate, what I placed on yesterday's piece by John Ward, but what is such an accurate account of the problem in my opinion as a former police officer with some responsibility:-

"Take for starters the role of the police. Over the last thirty years, this has been hijacked by the political class – first in order to break strikes, and then to reflect the ‘progressive’ agenda that remains so divorced from a practical understanding of the world. This has led both the last and this Administration to imagine that policing is some kind of ‘extra’ that can be selected or not depending on the contents of the Treasury. I started to raise awareness of this truly sick desire to change the police function, and to help leaders grasp that tolerance of casual crime (while blaming that on lack of money) would end in disaster.

We may have thousands of officers who lead the field in cultural diversity, a fine police record on sexual hate crime, hundreds of new rape investigators, and an improved detection rate for homophobia. But what we didn’t have on the streets of Croydon last night was any coppers. Just as the People’s Republic of Lambeth in the 1980s was too busy sending fraternal greetings in Moscow’s direction to get round to gritting the streets in winter, so too we have a pc Met Police today that hasn’t quite gotten round to pacing the streets. It is, veritably, the Metaphorical Police force, because first up it exists as an effective law and order unit only in the heads of Parliamentarians and local councillors; and second, it is a metaphor for our times: replete with mission statements, management bollocks, zero tolerance, top brass, liaison committees, targets and training courses."

Mr. Hoskin the need for a Royal Commission into policing has never been more urgently required. And certainly not a narrow, politically driven, 'enquiry' demanded by our so politically correct prime minister.

Policing has to return to its roots which made it the world leader in 'policing by consent'.

Doppelganger

Re "to use the Army in a supporting role. Although that would break through all sorts of symbolic barriers": who gives fig?

The level of civil disorder we are experiencing in England seems unprecedented in modern times. You might have to back to 1832 or even the Eighteeth Century for comparable events.

gillyw

There is a excellent article on "How New York Beat Crime" in the current (Aug 2011) edition of Scientific American by a Professor Franklin E Zimring of Berkeley School of Law, California. Seems to have involved concentrating on crime hotspots and lots of stop and frisk of suspicious characters. Many of the popular myths about crime not borne out. Also, unlike in most of the US, prison population in NY was reduced. Maybe Prof Zimring would write something for the Spectator in the current circumstances with the Met obviously struggling as in your article. His views would certainly be interesting.

Fraser

After Ian Tomlinson is the Met afraid of breaking a few heads lest the liberal media report on police brutality.

If these idiots want to fight bring back national service.

RCE

Use the Army? What Army? Cameron has set about destroying our armed forces with a zeal unmatched in any other policy area; all so he can fund foreign aid and loony renewable energy projects.

If this goes on much longer we'll be asking third world countries to help us out. And it's all so utterly predictable for those of us who live in the real world.

seb

Diane Abbott understands. She understands that the voters want this stopped. If the government does not also understand this, there will be an election by 2013 and the utterly useless, utterly appalling Labour Party of which Diane is a member will be able to destroy what little is left of the UK.

Dave needs to understand the meaning of the phrase 'zero tolerance'. The people will be behind him. So it's a choice between zero tolerance or having one of the Eds as Supreme Leader in two years. The austerity riots after a disaster like THAT will make today's news look like a fight between two drunks in a pub.

Derek

1832 and indeed the Gordon Riots at bottom had a political motivation. This nihilist, consumerist vandalism has none.

An orderly democratic state is based on civic virtue. The question has now been posed: does England still have sufficient reserves of civic virtue on which to call?

RCE

strapworld - and what will be happening in the real world while this enquiry is in session?

There is no need for an enquiry. The solution is obvious.

CP

The police seem overrun, I agree, and Ms May seems reluctant to use the necessary force to contain the riots, stating in her interview this morning that the way the Police do things in the UK is to work with the local community and not use water cannon. I am certain the majority of the affected local communities and of the UK population would like to see something more robust, whatever lines in the sand have to be breached. It also seems to me that public order problems, for which the Police are trained, are more geared to demonstrations. These are looters, vandals and arsonists - not demonstrators, so just watching them will not work. Nor will arresting a handful and letting them off with the inevitable caution. There are people whose homes and livelihoods have been catastrophically ruined already. The Police have not protected anyone, but have just stood and watched, waiting no doubt for CCTV to do their work for them. If the Police do not protect people, rather than just arrest a few people who can be identified on CCTV, then some other defence organisation needs to be brought in.
The government has to act with force rather than waiting for rainfall to reinstate law and order. Use water cannon and rubber bullets if necessary, like they do in Northern Ireland. Pen them in and paintball them with paint that stains for a few days - it will ruin the new trainers they have just filched from JJB if nothing else.

TomTom

Shades of 1848 in Northern cities when Irish areas erupted and the militia went in. Maybe this is the harbinger of regime change as in Tunisia ?

The fact is that police do not PREVENT crime, they simply INVESTIGATE it, and so it has been for decades. They tend to HARASS rather than POLICE and irritate everyone by their forays and withdrawals.

They are Rupert's pensioners funded by bribes, they are a caste apart unavailable when violent crime takes place but aggressive when peaceful protest is evident. There is a thuggish quality to an untrained police "service" instead of a properly constituted Constabulary.

The Army is unable to help; it is pre-occupied and demoralised. To steal undocumented TVs ready for digital switchover in 2012 and unregistered mobile phones is savvy; there is method in what these gangs are doing

Publius

Getting too close to the luvvy circles of the cosy London commentariat now, is it? They are reaping what they have sown. Fools.

Needless to say, this has nothing whatsover to do with "cuts". The chatterati have spent the last months egging on mob power and mob violence elsewhere, comfortable in the knowledge that they would not have to face the consequences of their words.

And the left have been quietly hoping for this kind of thing to happen here, just so they can pin it all on their political enemies. They had better be careful what they wish for.

Cg

It looks like the people standing up for British values the most are Mualims, who so many sad people on this board seem to detest. THey have driven the thugs off without any help from police.

Hugo Chav

Peter,

As Short the UK I used to rant on Coffee House that since 2007 we have been in a National Emergency and that the elite must come together to hold the country together both emotionally and financially.

The depression has barely started!!

Tom Pride

Strapworld

“If mass outbreaks of criminality occur on the scale of last night it would need a vast army to contain it.”

Maybe – but it is not mass outbreaks of criminality by the general population. It is relatively small bands of criminal youths, with opportunistic hangers on, acting with no support from the general populace.

Use of appropriate techniques from the start would have put an early lid on it. (The Kurds and Turks protecting their shops and livelihoods and Muslim men protecting the East London Mosque show this to be true.)

The natural consequences of the 13 years of irresponsible Labour government, the fantasy land ideas of their fellow PC Statists in the Establishment and their irresponsible propagandists at the BBC and in the broadcasting media in general.

Peter From Maidstone

Many of the BBC News 24 reporters were saying that they were not seeing more than 40-50 criminals in many of these incidents. This is not civil unrest not seen since 1832. It is a small number of youths being ALLOWED to run riot.

They need to be tackled quickly with aggressive force. 95% of the population would support such action. Those media who portayed the police as unneccessarily violent would be quickly seen to be out of step with what Britain expects.

The police are there to protect the population from criminal activity and to enforce the rule of law. At the moment (and I am not blaming the policeman on the street) they are doing neither.

Ken Livingston on the news last night was essentially saying that the violence was all justified because we have a Conservative Government. He should be barred from any public office and every time he speaks pictures should be shown of gangs of black youths burning working people's homes down with his voice saying that it is all understandable.

Baron

we’ve gone completely bonkers, the markets behave as if the world was coming to an end, the rioters as if the world was here for nobody but them, it’s beyond despair.

is it the curse of the Maya?

Private Schultz

Surely the police in Northern Ireland could lend the Met a few water cannon - should help dampen down the spirits of the criminal looters, and douse some of the blazes they start. Put some sort of tag in the water too - colour or smell, for example - so there's evidence to chase up afterwards.

Ricky

The rioters are Blair's Children - the result of a generation of social engineering by the National Socialist Party, formerly known as the Labour Party.

As for the police - they were once a police "force". Now they are a police "service".

Do the math.

RCE

FTSE dropping like a stone, too.

The end?

Baron

Sergei Poliakov @ 9.15:

in regards your first sentence, sir, are you a convert or have you been like Baron of this view before?

one has to be cautious though, my blogging friend, remember what’s important here, the rioters have human rights, rough or even insensitive handling may land one inside, worse still, labelled as racists.

Doppelganger

Peter from Maidstone opines "This is not civil unrest not seen since 1832.": in terms of damage (not to mention wilful governmental impotence), it may well be. In those days the authorities did not tie their hands behind their backs.

and I'll go to bed at noon

@Doppelganger

Nonsense. Try the 1980s - is this really worse than the Brixton riots? The miner's strike wasn't too pretty either.

TrevorsDen

As Strapworld I think is saying - its not numbers, we police by consent and I think the vast majority of people in the affected areas would consent to stronger action from the police.

I do not see what defending the nation from the anarchy of Scargill has got to do with it however. What we do have is a culture of 'you can't touch me' by the yobs. For how long have we been going on about the stupidity of the human rights lawyers and judges?
I suspect these yobs are low grade criminals, peddling drugs here and there and stealing fiddling what they can. They hardly look employable.

strapworld

RCE thank you for your considered opinion. Read Baron at 10.11am and you may consider why the modern police cannot react as you would wish!

Tom Pride

Labour’s Civil Contingencies Act 2004

Use it.

Mark Cannon

The police need to win this evening. That means:
1) calling up special constables;
2) getting maximum reinforcements from non-urban police forces;
3) pre-deployment in the obvious areas - we all know where the mobs are coming from and are likely to congregate;
4) a willingness to confront rioters and looters head on;
5) proper follow up: many of the criminals are not wearing masks and have been photographed - why haven't the police already published photos of those whom they want to interview/arrest?

Austin Barry

Perhaps we can learn from London’s Gordon Riots of 1780:

“The army was called out on 7 June and given orders to fire upon groups of four or more who refused to disperse. About 285 people were shot dead, with another 200 wounded. Around 450 of the rioters were arrested. Of those arrested, about twenty or thirty were later tried and executed.”

Tom Pride

A Labour Government turned out of office at the ballot box followed soon after by riots and /or violent insurrection by the clients of that Labour government, abetted and encouraged by excuses provided by Labour politicians, their fellow PC Statists in the Establishment and their irresponsible propagandists at the BBC and in the broadcasting media in general.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Chris lancashire

It would seem a major factor in the poor police response is poor leadership. Unsurprising when MPs have just finished removing the top layer over the ludicrous phone hacking. Too much to hope they might feel they bear some of the responsibility?

Walsingham's Ghost

So, 30 years of Political Correctness, a hoplessley ineffectual education system and a weak judiciary who care more about a criminal's human rights than administering firm justice finally comes home to roost...

WG

JR Bearbull

We need to make a very clear distinction, not just in words but in actions, between protest and disorder. If you want to protest that is your right in a democracy. The moment you stop being peaceful, whether it be breaking a shop window, throwing something or actually rioting the police should be under instructions to deal with you immediately. Its too late to deal with the present situation in this fashion, we will inevitably have to resort to the sort of measures our politicians love criticising tin pot dictatorships for: water cannon, rubber bullets and so forth. But if all the instances of unrest in the past decade or so had been dealt with in this manner, whether it be animal rights protesters, May Day or student rioters, I doubt we would be seeing the chaos we are seeing now.

Dimoto

The Telegraph says: "Cameron takes drastic action - recalls parliament".

Sorry, inviting parliament back for more jaw-jaw to obfuscate the issue and argue "who is to blame", is NOT drastic action.
We don't need to know the opinions of Miliband, Harman and Balls' spin doctors, we need direct and decisive action !

Clear Memories

The Police deserve no support, they are a major part of the problem. For years now they have bent over backwards to placate the immigrant minority and the intrinsically unlawful/corrupt attitudes they've brought here from their own cesspit nations. At the same time, they've ignored the genuine concerns and legitimate grievances of the indigenous white residents - indeed, they've had a deliberate policy of persecuting motorists as a cash cow.

It is time this useless arm of the last Labour government was closed down and the inept, politicised shirk-force summarily dismissed.

Control of the streets should be immediately handed over to the Armed Forces with the Military Police taking over general Police duties. Enhance VOSA and let them sort traffic.

Once control has been taken, by armed state violence if necessary, Parliament can review the law, scrap PACE and the EHRC, remove all elements of racial bias, remove all aliens from within our borders and start again to rebuild a civilian Police Force, armed and supported by Capital and Corporal punishment.

Those that don't like it are at liberty to leave.

Leon

"Were all in this together"

"Broken Britain"

and last week Osborne hinted at tax cuts for the rich.

I'm lucky enough to live in Scotland and we have rejected Thatcherite dogma, what do you expect when you keep voting for a divisive party like the Tories. It's only going to get worse.

Ian Walker

Putting the army on the streets would be an absolute gift to the Gadaffi and al-Assad régimes.

In2minds

'Policing by consent', can I go on record to say that I'll scream if I hear that fatuous remark again.

For example I've never consented to the existence of ACPO, but then I've never been asked!

starfish

So the meedja calmouring for the Army to be put on the streted and the MPS to knock some heads - is that the same meedja who went to town over Tomlinson?

Just wondering

Some perspective required here I think. 95% of the country is not in flames, most of London is not in flames

And the eeeevil torreee cuts haven't even started yet, so that isn't the issue despuite what the newt fondler says

Maybe if we did not squander our resources on CCTV to assist in solving crimes after the fact but spent it on police on the ground preventing them we would not be in this position

Just a thought

Sam

It's all very depressing. Both the Conservatives and Labour have massively failed the people who are unfortunate enough to live amongst these nihilistic thugs. Public sector cuts are a completely false argument as they haven't bitten yet. However, the future closing of youth leisure and employment services will certainly not help levels of disengagement from society. That the generally fairly wealthy Conservatives have never really been interested in the 'situation on the ground' and their continued willingness to allow jobs and communities to rot on the altar of high finance is to their shame.

However, it is to Labour's shame (and particularly the left-liberal moral equivalence brigade) that they have created a culture of rights with no responsibilities, arms-length policing, lenient sentencing, urban overcrowding and an acceptance of inadequate parenting in the name of 'diversity'. They only ever seem to forgo all of this tolerance in favour of tradition when it comes to selecting a school for their own children.

As has been proved time and again the police's actions are not always to be taken on trust. However, the scenes from last night show only how toothless we have made them. We've got to toughen up the IPCC so that police abuses get dealt with not whitewashed. However we also MUST start equipping police properly and allowing them to confront greedy thugs with tear gas, water cannon, rubber bullets or whatever else they need in order to look after the law-abiding majority. After all, no-one should need reminding what the first responsibility of any government should be.

AliC

Anyone looting - arrested and charged and sent down.

Blair's children out there know only too well that they have 'yuman rights' but have never met a responsibility in their lives, because the welfare state picks up all the responsibilities. Nobody ever said no to them and backed it up with punishment or another way of thinking - taking responsibility for yourself. There's been plenty of molly coddling and 'community investment' tho...

It is clear these people and their parents never had boundaries or responsibilities enforced and that they have no conscience. Did their parents know they were out burning down houses and robbing Comet? If you burn someone's flat they could die. At that age, I was in the house doing homework or in my room. Do they care?

For 20 odd years, we the scared majority of working folk - the real people pay for all of these 'deprived' and no doubt through our insurance to clean up this mess, have passively let our governments permit this 'deprived' underclass steal lie stab and speak like rap idiots to each other for fear of political correctness. REAL deprivation is alive and well, look at Somalia. Real deprivation does not burn some innocent person's car and then loot branded sportswear. This is criminality and permissive cowardice.

Prison, national service, real punishment, strict education, or we reap this for decades. They know they have nothing to lose at present, so time for them to lose (benefits, freedom, free house)

Holly ......

'The simple fact is that the rule of law has been eroded over the past few days'.

Really?
I reckon the rule of law has been eroded for a much longer time than few days.

No order in the classroom, no order within families. Power taken away from the adults and given to children.
Any decent skills the police had have been eroded by Labour policies, and handwringing top bods who now call the shots.

I am not of a mind that this has happened because there are Tories in power, or cuts, or anyone being on holiday.

Ferral children have suddenly grown up into ferral adults...Who'd a thunk it eh?

Baron

Peter fM @ 9.59 believes he has the winning solution: They (the rioters) need to be tackled quickly with aggressive force. 95% of the population would support such action”.

Peter, please, wake up before it’s too late, aggressive force, here, in a country wrapped up in layers of uman Rights, tell you this, when it’s all over, calms returns, the courts will have plenty to do like punishing the police for their brutality, compensating the rioters who may have suffered not only physical, but mental abuse, too, the BBC and the allied tossers blaming ‘the society at large’ for not hugging the thugs warmly enough, asking for more money, demanding and getting more money to do more of what we’ve been doing till now.

of course, there will also be cases brought against many of those who burnt, pillaged, destroyed things, these will be dealt sensitively as befits our enlightened society that removed pain from punishment, celebrates diversity, worships political correctness, embraces moral equivalence and stuff.

How the fugg did we get here, ha?

disenfranchised

bring in the army. bring in water cannon. bring in the yank. bring in french riot police. bring in anyone with balls!
let these rioters know we're not going to be intimidated.
the timidity of this country's pc/yuman-rites/diversity-obsessed power elite (teresa may in particular) disgusts me.....

Herbert Thornton

What terrifies the current British Establishment is not the riots themselves but the prospect of people beginning to wonder whether Enoch Powell was right, and the even more frightening suspicion that people may start to listen to groups whom the media usually describe as "far right" - e.g. the EDL or BNP.

Cogito Ergosum

The Popular Street Festivals have shown the dark side of Merrie England, and have set back the good cause of ME for a generation.

We now face, God help us, another twenty or thirty years of nanny state busybodying.

Historically these riots are nothing special. But once upon a time we had a police FORCE who were willing to act with robust common sense.

Diane C - London

The Nottinghill Carnival must be cancelled forthwith.

Ridcully

"I'm lucky enough to live in Scotland and we have rejected Thatcherite dogma."
But you still welcome the "Thatcherite" money that pays for your socialist "paradise."

Marcellus

One big question, of course, is "Who pays?" Unfortunately, it is likely to be the Met itself (at least for the property damage) under the provisions of the Riots (Damages) Act 1886. It is hard to see them having enough Public Liability insurance to cover the entire value of the property damage which has been caused ...

Ben G

In Clapham last night I saw vans full of police just sitting parked up.

They did nothing for about two hours. They were ordered to withdraw.

Why? We not only need more police, but police with balls.

David Smart

Strapworld makes a valid point about the police not being able to provide adequate support to the public,the reason is to be found in our recent past.
After 30 plus years of child centred education which asked pupils what they would like rather than guiding them through the experience of their teachers to achieve their true potential,which would have been fine had not the teachers been indoctrinated in the ensuing years by the teaching colleges into sociological claptrap ideas about the methods of ever decreasing standards(necessitated by not teaching solid facts and figures,but by opinionated conjecture as the tool of understanding any subject whatever it's requirements might be)But excaserbated by the destruction of the Grammar schools, Crosland stands condemned for this but so too do the Tory party for allowing this destruction to be perpetuated.
The results are now that we have a poorly educated underclass who have been further let down by a Labour Government who professed to want to help them through pouring billions into schemes which were supposed to lift them out of poverty,into Education which was supposed to raise their ambitions,but have left them still out in the cold due to an overarching philosophy of hands on social engineering.
Through this period we have seen the police force turn into the police service,enough said the title tells you everything,great at diversity and PC attitudes not so good at adversity against yob behaviuor.Hands tied behind their backs in fear of being judged by sociologists who even this morning are prattling on about the causes of the riots are all to do with the poor living conditions and poor prospects of the perpetrators when we all know this is simple theft and opportunism,nothing to do with lack of opportunity far from it.
So we now see young men who feel that they are owed a living but without thinking it necessary to work for it stealing and burning confronted by a Police Service who think they owe it to the community they are trying to protect to bend over backwards not to go in too hard for fear of upsetting the feelings of sociologists,but more importantly the feelings of The BBC who were still reffering to these thieves as "Protesters" this morning

Tom Pride

Leon
August 9th, 2011 11:

“I'm lucky enough to live in Scotland and we have rejected Thatcherite dogma, what do you expect when you keep voting for a divisive party like the Tories

It's only going to get worse.”

Sanctimonious crap from the Nation without the guts to let go of Nanny’s apron. Go! Go! Go!

And then you’ll have to grow up when you discover you could only keep voting for Statism because the bills were paid for by Daddy down South.

Same old Socialist “Democrats” children – if you vote against us there will be riots – and it will be all your fault.

Well down here where your friends are burning out the innocent and we have no one to protect us except ourselves , I feel angry. So why don’t you fu*k off and take you goddam economic disasters - The Darién Adventures, RBS, Bank of Scotland and Brown/ Darling – with you.

And take you effing oil with you! Better off without it if we can get rid of you sanctimonious celtic parasites.

Gawain

A lot of the businesses being damaged seem to have Asian owners. It looks to me as if there could be a racist undercurrent to all of this.

2trueblue

The reason Cameron is recalling parliament is to get all MPs together and avoid the BBC and Liebore, and Red Ken from distorting the facts Red Ken thinks it is all reasonable and that those rioting, looting and endangering others are looking for a solution to their problems. Yeah, such a realistic approach, but the BBC and Ken thought that this was reasonable last night.

Stuart Seacole Smith

Wot Baron said at 12.25. With bells on.

Just wondering, where's "Tilly"? S/he usually has some special insights/ pearls of wisdom to share when it comes to multicultiness and correctly mangaging race relations...

Paddy

These rioters and looters are heathens.

This is what 13 years of the politically correct Labour party have done.

The rioters will not come out tonight. They will be watching their new plasma TVs....and too many police on the streets. They will wait their time.

This is not England....where thugs can pretend to help an injured youth....and then rob him. It is sickening.

The Police are doing what they can....with their hands tied behind their backs. Police leave has been cancelled. Why hasn't MPs. Not just one day to debate on Thursday. Why do MPs need so much holiday.

Cameron and society need to praise the Police. They have to be ordered to respond.

I only wish we had someone strong (who is not afraid of headlines) in charge. Bring back Margaret Thatcher.

2trueblue

Forgot to say those involved in the illegal acts are Blairs children, schooled by his government, reared by his government, and a direct result of his idealogy.
Liebore destroyed our culture, schooling, and most other positive institutions in the name of progress, PC, diversity, progress. change.
Any child under 16yrs caught in these areas involved in illegal behavior should have their childrens allowance withdrawn until they prove they can and do behave. It is the parents to bear responsibility for their childrens actions. That is what parenting is about. At least it was before Blair/Brown redefined the system.

The police are doing a good job considering the volume of the people who are engaging in these illegal acts. It is stupid and unreasonable , and irresponsible of the media to continually carp like morons on what is obvious. We have a vacuous press and media who obviously follow whatever they think will fly rather that engaging brain and looking at the facts.

Perry: Hard Hearted, Romantic

@ Herbert T. : Enoch Powell WAS right!! And few headed his prophetic words!

Another of the Tragedies that Britain must live with for many years yet.

As with the EUSSR, - and people seem a bit slow on picking that up too.

ButcombeMan

If I was doing a risk assesment for what might happen next in Tottenham it would certainly consider the threat of Turkish & Turkish Cypriot, armed vigilante activity against rioters.

Romantically Hard Hearted Perry

“Water Canon will not be used, - would have dramatic results” – (or some such) overheard on Sky News

Good!

Dramatic results are what we need!

Tim

Re vigilante groups, I would certainly be willing to hit the streets in order to quell this idiocy. Was discussing it last night with my housemates and it makes sense to stand up and defend our towns.

There are more upstanding citizens than "rioters" and I think we'd shut them up in no time if we mobilised together.

Can't wait for the school hols to end and for things to (hopefully) go back to normal!

URAllPigs

To all you who are blaming "Blair's children": pathetic. Your lot are in charge; your lot are responsible. Broken Britain indeed.

Russell

It raises some urgent questions for Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and 13 years of socialism. Almost every criminal looting and causing damage was educated under Labour.
Labour introduced 'human rights laws' which protect criminals only, Labour ensured the police cannot move without risk assesment etc.

The best help the Met could get would be to issue baseball bats to shop owners and residents and allow them to defend their property and their neighbourhood, without fear of prosecution.

David Lindsay

No wonder that the Police are practically on strike even when there is a riot going on before their very eyes. They are no more pro-cuts than anyone else. Well, of course they are not. The same goes for MI5.

“Your Jobs Next”, indeed.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Problem that there is a shortage of cells? No problem. Pile them all in like sardines, and hopefully if some expire there will be less of them around. No doubt there will be an outcry from the EU and 'Uman Rights. We can ask them to give us funds as we are a desperate Fourth World country having an Arsonic Spring!

disenfranchised

@ tom pride.....

i was simply going to tell our smug wee jock pal leon that his comment really didn't help at this disastrous time for london and england, but you've done a lot, lot better.....

Dennis Churchill

Our modern police “service”, representative as it is of the community, is not suitable for riot control. It possibly is also not suitable for foot patrols late at night in dangerous areas either.
The solution? Recruit a new force from ex-infantry soldiers just to deal with rioters and patrol the streets. The existing police service could then concentrate on traffic offences and investigate Hate Crimes etc.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Gawain
August 9th, 2011 1:39pm

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A lot of the businesses being damaged seem to have Asian owners. It looks to me as if there could be a racist undercurrent to all of this.
===================
I don't think it is racial. The reason so many of the shops are Asian is because this hard-working community are self-reliant and many pulled themselves up by their boot straps. Too many native born British rely on the State to help them out and thus fewer are proportionally retailers.

TomTom

The Met is a bit pathetic really. Michael Gove expects teachers to search such "students" for knives and to impose discipline. Quite why a woman alone in a classroom with 30 such individuals should have more authority than a Constable is not made clear.

Remember when they aren't burning and looting they are supposed to listen to teacher......what the Met cannot manage, the Teacher is supposed to do ?

G8shame

There are so many stupid people on here, I think I'll go elsewhere. You all know everything about everything and could do anything better than any one else. Pathetic.

Archie

The police will get respect when they show we white, middle-aged, tax-payers some respect!

Paddy

G8shame and Archie: Go to hell!