The public wants firmer action

In2minds

"The public wants .....", a referendum on EU membership?

frosty the polar bear

As a mere bear,
i was wondering that as these rioteers seem very fond of fire,
rather than employing water cannon to deal with them, one could better utilise flame-throwers instead?
after all, it'd save them a lot of bother, not having to run about setting fires,
would sort out the vermin in a truly apprpriate way, save on court/incarceration costs, and even manage to cremate them in one go.
Therefore, efficiency, the restoration of law, and order, and also the hunger for retribution, by the victims, can all be achieved in one simple action.
just thinkin',
toodle pip.

MirthaTidville

People are concerned and they want a Home Secretary that can and will articulate their views. Theresa May has been tested and found to be useless, hasnt a clue and answers difficult questions with a patronising sneer.

Her latest faux pas is refusing to meet the head of the Police Federation. you cant stand your Police Forces on their head shale em upside down and refuse to meet their ELECTED reps..

Eric Pickles is what is needed now.The latter day Norman Tebbit!!

Dennis Churchill

What this shows is a lack of confidence that senior members of the political class’s experience in public relations, the media, researching and as lawyers will result in them having any useful ideas about how to reduce crime.
In fact as the figures relating to the likelihood the criminals will get away with it shows we are rapidly coming to the conclusion that the cultural Marxist sociobabble, which passes for beliefs among them, is the main cause of the lawlessness.

Peter From Maidstone

Why do the Police need elected representatives?

Chris lancashire

Much to the annoyance of the liberal chatterati the rioting is, so far, totally (and rightly) unconnected to "the cuts".
Used sensibly, this should be a gift to the Coalition to take the initiative in implementing some much needed reforms.

Ed P

I suspect the overwhelming public support for the use of water cannon is because most of the rioters could do with a damn good wash. Travelling on the tube nowadays, with pungent and unpleasantly foul-smelling (mainly) young people, no longer masked by tobacco aromas, is utterly disgusting.

oldtimer

One of the more absurd excuses I heard this afternoon on SkyNews was the connection of government "cuts" with the "twelve year olds" involved in the riots/arson/thieving.

It is not clear what "justice" will be meeted out to those who not legally defined as adult. Gaol sentences seem unlikely for most of them; I am unclear what the effective alternatives and/or deterrents are available to the courts.

Dimoto

I sincerely hope Cameron announces special help for damaged small businesses tomorrow.

They have a very just claim, and it is obvious that this will be one of Red's lines of attack.

Maggie

Any attempt to solve the problem is likely to be hampered by the Judiciary and the Law, neither of which are fit for purpose. It'll be a miracle if Judges, the Human Rights industry, Labour MPs and the BBC don't combine to exonerate the rioting looters from all blame for their actions.

Heartless Perry, Hard and Romantic

The public wants firmer action

Have they anyone in mind who might 'deliver' (another stupid LieBOre term)it?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

How can we go wrong with the Dunkirk spirit in full bloom? Very commendable seeing all those earnest good townsfolk bearing brooms. The last time I saw something like it was in a replay of the old codgers on parade in "Dad's Army"!

TrevorsDen

its easy to ask the public to answer questions which they have no responsibility for implementing.

Do the public want a police state? Or concentration camps? No I suspect not.
Well in that case the public have to accept the downside to that.
Polls like the above only have a certain usefulness.

Cynic

So most people blame the riots on criminal behaviour - hardly surprising because that's what it is! Mind you, just why has criminal behaviour become so prevalent? Could it have anything to do with the politicising of the police (no longer a force, but a "community service"), liberal lefty views on punishment and the dumbing down of the education system? If so, just who was responsible for all this?

Baron

the public may want firmer action, what they'll get is firmer words, for a while anyway, then it'll be back to normal.

Baron has said it before, it's the statutes that are at the root of the non-firm actions, the magistrates, the judges, the police aren't to blame, they're merely sticking to what the letter of the law tells them.

bojimbo

Sack Theresa May .

Hard Heartless Perry, - but with a Romantic Streak

So will the H2B’s object - all sublime -
Be achieved in time —
To let the punishment fit the crime —
The punishment fit the crime?
(with ack. to G&S)

I don’t think so –

Noticed what happened in Court to under 18 year olds in Manchester today?

Does that fit the brave words of the Firebomber of QUANGOs this morning?

OfficialView

Public enthusiasm for rubber bullets, baton rounds, water cannon, the Army etc would last until the first moment when a mistake is made and a by-stander / shopkeeper / mother with baby / "person protecting their community" etc is shot, tear-gassed, or water-blasted through a shop window. How long would that be? Then there will be a Daily Mail-led campaign for safeguards and better controls.

Herbert Thornton

What the public want? Whatever it is, the two things we can be sure of are -

1. That the public won't get what they want, and

2. That the public will get what they don't want.

The mainstream political parties will ensure that both 1 and 2 happen - even if it includes submitting to demands from Islamic extremists.

Moreover, anybody who voices opposition to the foregoing will be pilloried (or, who knows arrested and jailed too) on the grounds of being a Breivik sympathiser.

Corinium

It's very simple. The rioters and looters are behaving as they are because they have lost all fear of the Police. They know (a) the Police are frightened to respond in a suitably robust manner because they fear being sued under Health and Safety legislation or the Human Rights Act, (b) they know that in the extremely unlikely event of being convicted the courts will give them derisory sentences and (c) they know that the prisons are full and the Government is letting out as many prisoners as it can.

I saw the Police Minister, James Brokenshire, on the News this evening. Hopeless. Evasive. Platitudinous. A sort of political James Murdoch. Why do Conservative Associations select people like this?

captblack

Seems the police have lost the knowledge of how to enforce and maintain a civil society - ironically they should maybe look at the UK/US army's recent experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan to control these feral youths.

Boots on the ground, dispersed / embedded into the communities where they can gather low level intel by re-assuring the majority law abiding citzens by their presence. It also means they're close enough to respond to situations early & call back up as needed.

For years, the police have been retreating into large central stations (does your local community have a police station? a police house?); retreating into cars, vans, helicopters, specialist unit. The foot soldiers have disappeared to be replaced with largely ineffectual PCSO's.

Better still, just get in the army - there better qualified to do, what needs to be done.

FvH

The sad thing is that nothing will change and things will get worse - there is little point debating causes and "theoretical" solutions
Keep away from dangerous inner cities, invest more in personal and domestic security measures and arrange your tax affairs so you are not subsidizing underclass lifestyle choices
That is the cold hard reality

DJT

There was a time when if the economy and crime were top of the public's concerns, the Conservatives would have been way ahead in the polls. CCHQ needs to ask why this is no the case now...

Derek

Corinium is probably correct that the police won't take the necessary action for fear of 'elf and sifetee repercussions; just as the Spectator is now afraid to write the truth for fear of libel actions.

It may take the burning down of a few courts before legislation now in place is abolished or re-written; but that would require a political element among the nihilist consumers, which of course does not exist.

AWK 1

The brooms should be replaced with pikes once the clean up is completed by the Broom Army; but do these fine-looking people have the stomach or the political theory for it?

Wrexhamian

Since the 1980's it has been fairly obvious to me - [and I am sure to many others] that the new world of the internet would bring profound changes in its wake. Instant communication not only nationwide, but also worldwide, would result in many diverse opinions and actions from all elements of our society.
I fear that recent events are only a small introduction to more such events yet to come.

Why are these children so unthinking?

Where have all the concerned parents gone?

Where have all the good teachers gone?

"Oh Lord have mercy on our souls." - and I say this as an atheist.

By way of some background context, I was lucky enough to go to a Grammar School - [having a father who never earned more than £8 per week] in the 1950's.
The school was divided into four streams, only the top two streams were served adequately with the best teachers - was it that there no other teachers available, or that there only two streams suited to a grammar scool eduction ? - I have no answer.
The Comprehensive school reforms were supposed to rectify this with easy transfer between ability steams - this does not appear to have happened - was the social mobility ideal a non-starter?.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Derek
August 10th, 2011 11:07pm
Sorry, but don't think the average citizen has the stomach for either of your suggestions. Would like to get a pike near May - doesn't need much imagination where the pike could go!

TomTom

These were the KEY Issues at the last Election but The Three Stooges would not discuss them in their "debates" and Cameron had no interest in "law and order" as it was too conservative

Woody

The PM will have to fight this with one hand tied behind his back by the hand-wringing Lib Dems.

If there is one person I would like judged by 'public opinion' its Harriet Harman. This woman and her supporters have worked for years for this very moment. They have destroyed nearly everything that is good about this country with their sneering tribalism and visceral hatred.
I don't often agree with Melanie Philips but this is Tony Blair's real legacy. I hope when he watches what is going on in this country at the moment he will be honest enough to admit that not getting rid of the two wrecking balls that is Harman and Brown was one of his biggest failures.

Kennybhoy

Chris lancashire on August 10th, 2011 5:11pm.

"...this should be a gift to the Coalition to take the initiative in implementing some much needed reforms."

"Should" being the operative word here alas.

The opportunity to use the law and order and, to a lesser degree, EU and immigration issues to create "clear blue water" has been there for over twenty years.

Kennybhoy

TrevorsDen on August 10th, 2011 6:42pm

Hyperbolic flatulence!

Are you Fatbloke in disguise?

starfish

Middle class hand wringing

How many of you have walked past on the other side?

How many of you have actively assisted the police by reporting wrong doers and standing up and naming them rather than cowering indoors afraid of reprisals?

How many of you play an active role in your communities?

Other that vigorously protesting against any positive development that might impinge on your views or house prices?

How many of you have paid a tradesman cash in hand?

How many of you have bought stuff suspiciously cheaply off Ebay or in the market?

How many of you routinely break the law?

It is the professional classes that connive in ridiculous charges for poor quality output, lack of accountability, dodgy expenses, tax evasion and unearned bonuses

It isn't just feral youths that are part of the problem

Rhoda Klapp

A fine, almost defining example of 'what-aboutery' from starfish. It seems to me the if I pay cash to a tradesman, nobody's life or property is threatened. And indeed, no law is broken unless and until he fiddles his VAT return or tax form.

Rhoda broke the spped limit yesterday, and asks for approx 100,000 similar offences to be taken into consideration.