BBC alleges that Coulson received hundreds of thousands of pounds from News Int while working for the Tories

Herbert Thornton

".....these payments stopped at the end of 2007 once Coulson had been paid the amount he was entitled to."

So what would you have had Coulson do? Refuse to accept money that was due to him & that he had a right to receive?

And now, nearly 4 years later it's news of some sort?

You assert that Coulson told the Culture Media and Sport Select Committee something in 2009 but you don't say what it was - though you do imply that it wasn't true. So what did he tell them?

You sound as though you're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Charles

James, I am sorry, but this is a garbage post. I am a great fan of yours (not that that is particularly relevant), but this is beneath you.

Coulson signed a compromise agreement. This is absolutely standard practice for someone at this level of seniority on leaving a job. Typically, he would agree to certain conditions (e.g. confidentiality, non-compete) for a limited period of time and, in return, would be given a sum of money over and above his notice period pay.

For whatever reason, the decision was made to stagger this payment. This is as agreed between Coulson and News International.

There is *absolutely nothing wrong with this*. Coulson would have had only very limited and specific obligations to NI, as set out in the agreement, and the payments could not be terminated if he upset his former employer.

To try and make an issue of this is utter rubbish. Peston does not come out of this well - he is deliberately misleading the public to try and make a story. He is a smart guy, who understands business, and knows exactly what a compromise agreement is and how it works.

Charles

P.S.

I may have missed it, but I don't recall you ever commenting on EU pensions received by certain Cabinet Ministers who served in the last government.

That is far more of a conflict than this.

Davidh

Well that's the whole story, isn't it? These people either have a "quite remarkable level of incompetence" or a complete lack of moral standards. At this level of employment and income, I'm not sure which would be more shocking. Doesn't look good either way...

Nick

How is receiving a legally-mandated severance package in installments "being in the pay" of News International ?

I'm sure Coulson also has a pension from NI too.

Isn't this just the BBC/Guardian/Tom Watson trying desperately to undermine the PM even though there really is no smoking gun.

Rhoda Klapp

Are you at all familiar with the acronym SFW?

Clegg (and he's not the only one) gets money from a sinister organisation dedicated to the destruction of the United Kingdom. Nobody seems to mind.

Burt

Whether you like it or not it appears that Coulson was entitled to his severence deal.

Why the hell are you wasting time dragging this story out. Are you one of Peston's mates?

TomTom

Oh Nick you are such a bleeding heart. Company car, BUPA, with all sorts of clauses in the contract, make for a conflict of interest.

Never mind though, William Hague was a paid adviser to Geoffrey Howe....paid by McKinsey & Co., Inc.

It is a Public-Private Partnership - public office for private gain !

Sir Everard Digby

Political classes still trying to get amother encore for this panto?

Peston is in fact dumb in revealing this; a compromise agreement is not widely circulated,nor are the terms known by many people,particularly if senior managers are involved.

This narrows down dramatically the potential sources,which are either:

Someone who negotiated the deal or
someone who is supplying Pesto with office rumours.

He cannot possibly have checked the facts as Coulson and NI would not comment under the terms of their agreement.

It is therefore just a further example of poor journalism. Given that Peston must know this is the case unless he is terminally thick, it begs the question 'why now?'

It also suggests that any other 'scoops' he comes up with need careful research,if he is operating to such sloppy standards

Nicholas

Yes indeed - SFW.

It seems the BBC have become passed masters at consolidating news, propaganda and smear.

barnacle bill

HBOS busting Peston now comes up with this story?
He's still got a lot of explaining to do over HBOS, also as he is employed by the Beeb (renowned for it's impartiality), I just view his words as that of a forked tongued journalist - once again!

TrevorsDen

Hiuh - THIS is a story? Man receives severance in staged payments? Payments which stopped in 2007 ---- 2007!!!!!

This story is just being run so that Peston and the welsh windbag can have multiple orgasms on screen. I presume they go off afterwards for a session of group masturbation crying our Coulson coulson coulson....

TrevorsDen

PS Mr Forsyth - the fact is this story is a perfect and justifiable opportunity to expose and attack the BBC - yet you go along with their propaganda.
The truth is Peston should be forced to resign.

Bill Chapman

A man paid by News International working at the heart of Downing Street! David Cameron really does have to consider his position after this.

Rhoda Klapp

I get regular monthly payments from a multi-national computer corporation and from HMG. Am I compromised? Have you noticed the bias in my copy?

TomTom

check the date to which benefits (such as use of a car or medical benefits) are given. Although benefits can be given for post-termination periods, they may support continuation of employment if other factors support that interpretation.

HMRC
EIM12975 - Termination payments and benefits: payments in lieu of notice (PILONs)

Lonesome Dave

Yaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!

Is anyone still remotely interested in this (effectively) non-story, apart from the BBC and Guardian for reasons of commercial rivalry or the Labour Party because they simply have nothing else to talk about?

This constant dribble of innuendo, from the usual suspects, is extremely tedious. Please don't humour them James.

The dogs have long since barked and the caravan has actually moved on.

Frederick James

Pitiable post dancing to the BBC's tune: "Man is paid money owed to him SHOCK". Give me strength.

The Laughing Cavalier

Peston is a Brown mouthpiece (see Bowyer's biography of the Scotch Loon) with a visceral anti Conservative bias. Beware his agenda.

Dennis Churchill

Charles
August 23rd, 2011 2:29am
Yes it is strange that no declaration of interest is required when “our” parliamentarians, who receive a revocable EU pension, speak about the EU.
As for the BBC I wonder if they would be as quick to tell us about the financial affairs of Labour party employees.

Andy Leeds

What a load of piffle and shame on you James for running with it. All that happened was News International paid Coulson what was agreed within the terms and conditions of the agreement they entered into with Coulson on his resignation. There would have been a story had News International failed to honour its commitments. This is a load of Bollocks and clearly shows the BBCs bias and political leanings.

Del

Piss poor sloopy hack.

Honestly, maybe the Spectator should seriously consider sacking Forsyth; this type of stuff is only just good enough for the Mirror - maybe have a quick look there James; not a pretty picture, a Ghost yet to come me thinks.

Mark Cannon

Why should this embarass Mr Cameron at all? Stop parrotting silly smears from Robert Preston, Mr Forsyth, and try to engage your brain before typing.

Peter From Maidstone

Absolute and utter rubbish of a post. This is one of the worst and most obviously biased posts I have seen for a very long time. Peston should be made to resign and Forsyth should consider if journalism is really his forte.

2trueblue

The BBC and Peston, and you James are totally stupid to even post this rubbish. There is no story, there is nothing about a severance package that was agreed when he joined the group that can be quoted in the terms that the BBC and Peston as in any way odd. This is pure slander. I am shocked at your lack of journalism James, not to mention pur ignorance.

smell the glove

I see this crap, was posted at 12:15 am. Figures.

RKing

Now do a story on the handouts that Mandleson is still getting from the EU etc.

What an utter crap non story this is!!

michael

Planet 'private sector' (cash cow).
...It's light years out of reach for cuckoo land's Militburo and its dutiful mouthpiece Beeb-tass
I can not believe we are actually funding this crap.

FvH

Look - everyone on here is instinctively anti the BBC and cant quite see why this should be such a big deal
BUT the cold hard political fact is that Coulson-gate is (and will continue to be) a huge problem for Cameron
AND it will just go on getting worse and worse -
We can all stick our heads in the sand and bemoan the injustice of it all but politics just isn't like that
As Guido pointed out yesterday come the next election Coulson will very likely be in prison and Cameron could well be an electoral liability (no matter how unfair that seems to many on here )
It is common knowledge inside the party now that the likely candidates for successor have been getting in position because IF Cameron did have to go they would have to move extremely quickly (and the fact that Osborne could also be tarnished adds even more urgency to the scenario)
It should be noted that even those who are Cameron loyalists are agitating - they would never have chosen to conspire against him BUT the Coulson factor means that they HAVE to be ready to move
Interesting times!!
Who is to say that a Cameron successor might have a better chance of an outright majority??
Fox? Gove? IDS? - untainted by scandal, non-posh, and even perhaps more likely to offer an EU ref???
Let's think about the "politics' of the situation rather than the perceived rights and wrongs

Chris lancashire

As Rhoda said - SFW.
Peston was almost wetting himself on News at Ten - this is "explosive" politically. Nope, Mr Peston, it's not even a damp squib however much you and Mr Watson would like it to be something else.

This story says more about Peston's journalistic ability than anything else - and I'm afraid, by association, The Spectator's.

John David Barnett

Another non-story.

Span Ows

PATHETIC! Having the BBC and their bias is bad enough but there's no need to go regurgitating the same PAP! This is a non-story pushed by a Labour luvvie working in a chronically bias taxpayer funded media organisation that invents and promotes anything that may show their open market funded competition - what about BBC pensions and severance packages? FFS. Spectator going downhill fast. Peston would starve if he had to get a normal job...oh, hang on, I guess he could soon fit in here.

canonalberic

The "quite remarkable level of incompetence" is your own. Not only for failing to consider that there might actually be nothing wrong with continuing to receive lawful severance payments from your previous employer whilst employed elsewhere; but also for swallowing hook line and sinker the reporting of simple facts in a manner crudely designed to smear the Prime Minister.

Its called propaganda and any journalist worth reading can spot it a mile off...

Rhoda Klapp

Regulare readers may have noticed that Rhoda is not Cameron's biggest fan (but TD will be along in a minute..) but I don't want to get him for the Coulson thing, which amounts to little, I want him called to account for ineffectiveness. And yet, somehow, his wetness never seems to be an issue with the BBC. (Which organisation should have been the first to feel his wrath, if he had any not reserved for the cameras.)

arnoldo87

Coffee Housers - try to imagine if this story was about Alastair Campbell and Tony Blair.

Would you be making all these criticisms of James Forsyth and declaring it a "non-story"?

I think not. There would be a feeding frenzy as you lot got stuck into the "typically sleazy" New Labour behaviour.

tomdaylight

A "remarkable level of incompetence" from CCHQ? Well I never! There's a reason I never bothered renewing my membership...

mongoose

Robert Peston’s claim ... is worthy of notenothing.

Axstane

FvH [What is that Fritz von Hohenzollern?] - may I just call you Fritz?

Your prognostications of doom for Cameron are as useful and boring as Mystic Meg. There are still just as many people - 36% - who see him as a good Prime Minister as voted Conservative last May and the Tories are coming up in the polls.

But, Fritz, even if he is eventually replaced it will not be by Ed Miliband.

Dennis Churchill

Outside the Media Bubble Hackergate is of very little interest. It rates with Libya as an example of the different priorities of the general public and the media/political classes.
The story that will influence voters most is the riots. Labour should be keeping its collective fingers crossed the Notting Hill Carnival does not result in more violence as the general feeling is that crime and disorder is due to Labour’s trendy immigration and criminal justice policies. This may be unfair as a number of so-called Conservatives are just as supportive of these failed policies as Labour but that is the perception and Cameron will never get a better opportunity to call an election. How fortunate for Labour the Conservatives are lead by a P.R front man.

Scottish Cheeselog

What Rhoda said 9.49am. Plus of course continuing the treasonous surrender of all UK sovereignty to the EU, and the deliberate destruction of the economy by renewable energy idiocy. Not that he's alone in either of course. Heir to Blair with a vengeance, and just as weaselly. That said, reiterating the BBC/Guardian attempted smears is just silly.

Sir Everard Digby

FvH
'Let's think about the politics of the situation rather than the rights and wrongs'

Given yourself away there. You are a serving member of the political classes and I claim my £5.

The average citizen is concerned with the rights and wrongs of any situation. The politics matters not one jot.Until you lot grasp that simple point, there will always be an inherent 'bias' against you,in whatever form you manifest yourselves,such as the BBC.

That is because you do know the difference between right and wrong but excuse wrongs as 'it's politics'

2trueblue

FvH, Anti BBC I certainly am because it has become and is the Liebore mouthpiece and I am forced to pay for it. It shows amazing lack of journalistic skill and borders on slanderous in its treatment of some issues and there is no proper authority to call it to book. This is a real problem for us as we need our media to be solid and do their job. I am not a Cameron fan but live in the real world.
We had 13 yrs. of the most corrupt parliament when no on resigned even when they lied on their mortgage application. We entered different realms of justice whereby the ordinary person experienced one type of treatment and those whom we elected were allowed to rob, lie, cheat, steal and very little happened to them. We had MPs who were supposed to be qualified to govern us but unable to tell when they and others committed and illegal act and HMRC did nothing. The BBC is our enemy because it is prejudiced and I would like to have my news factual. Not a lot to ask.I have no respect for any of the shadow cabinet as they presided over the greed and left us with a debt ridden country, a broken fractured population, an educational system that can not cope with our influx of foreigners, a health system that I have paid for and can't get, a pension that Brown/Bliar interfered with to my detriment, and generally nothing positive, yet the BBC spent all the times and still does telling us what the BBC thinks. Not interested.

perdix

And of course Peston is the son of a Liebour peer.

Nicholas

Well said 2trueblue.

FvH urges us to think about the "politics" of the situation rather than the perceived rights and wrongs when the whole Labour/BBC/Leftist collective thrust is based on manipulating and influencing public perceptions of right and wrong. Their politics is all about this (and how it translates into them being able to seize power over us) and as far as I can see only ever about this. It is ridiculous and disingenuous to suggest that ordinary punters draw the distinction when the collective Left, the Borg, rely wholly for their objectives in conflating the two as a matter of course.

And until Cameron and the Conservatives realise what they are up against, that they are engaged against powers that will stop at nothing in the use of the most pernicious lies, deceits, smears and propaganda, aided and abetted by a quite obscene taxpayer-funded monstrosity of leftist propaganda in the shape of the BBC, they will fail.

Maggie

Its generous of you to refer to what passes for news on the BBC these days as "allegations". I think most people would call it making things up in pursuit of their political ends.

Nicholas

Oh, and having watched Harriet Harmon on Newsnight during the riots I am convinced that horrible woman is pure, unmitigated, black-hearted evil and one of the most dangerous monsters of deceit in our parliament. I'm sure I could even see snakes writhing in her hair and felt myself turned as to stone by those horrible, cold, basilisk, gimlet eyes.

Del

James, Fraser et al. Have you got the message yet.

Norman Dee

I think there could have been better ways of attracting attention to yourself James, have you tried sucking your thumb till your face turns blue. (or bluer in your case)

Occasional Ostrich

Nicholas @ 11:12am

You're being uncharacteristically kind to Mad Hattie.

normanc

Can anyone look into whether or not he received payments while still at NewsCorp? How much of it was used to pay off his mortgage, buy the clothes he wore in Downing Street, maybe a car, etc?

This is heady stuff, keep digging lads, and keep putting this stuff on the site / in the magazine!

Seriously, please stop with this garbage.

So politicians and journalists are dodgy, we get it. We got it last year, and ten years ago, and will get it ten years in the future.

This stuff is as dire as the 'professional footballer sleeps around with stunners (c/w risque pics)' crap that bubbles up to the surface now and again.

General Zod

This is not a story.

FvH

See Guido from yesterday - sad but true - as much as we might all wish that it wasn't the case and blame the BBC for stirring up trouble... the Coulson thing will NOT go away

"It gets worse for Downing Street; Andy Coulson could be in the dock the year before the election, or worse still, in jail. This will of course tarnish Cameron and Osborne. There is also the possibility that Coulson, as well as other News International figures, could sing about matters that would be excruciatingly embarrassing for the Tories. Osborne, who was really responsible for getting Andy Coulson his job, will be in a particularly uncomfortable position, perhaps even more so than Cameron. Coulson knows where the bodies are buried…"

QueenD

I would dearly like someone to rise from the rank of tired journalists to write about the sacked met police officer and alleged links with the Guardian.
Seems that both the BBBC and Guardian are desperately smearing away with no challenge from the MSM.
Is there anyone out there, discontent with the level of dung in the print and broadcast media ,willing to put their head above the parapet and really inform,really investigate without fear or favour?

Simon Stephenson.

Well, FvH and arnoldo87 aside, almost total uniformity of opinion that Peston/the BBC are engaged in muckraking that is unwarranted. Unwarranted because there can be no doubt that the appointment of Mr Coulson was totally above board, and that it involved not even the faintest scintilla of camouflaged mutual back-scatching between News International and the Conservative Party.

I'm sorry, but there is doubt about this, and I suspect that your denial of it is more to do with you believing it doesn't matter than that it didn't exist. You really can't expect either independents or the Conservatives' critics to be quite so dismissive of something you would be slavering all over if it involved a Party which you opposed.

Faceless Bureaucrat

@ perdix

I wondered when somebody would point that little fact out...

Simon Stephenson.

Nicholas : 11.12am

I agree with you about Harriet Harman and deceit, but don't you see that the whole Coulson/Cameron/Conservatives fiasco is about deceit, too? It's not about whether the appointment of Coulson was for the purest of motives, it's about what lies and misrepresentations have been made to cover-up the fact that this is a fiction so obvious that you could bet your house on it being so.

Where do we go, Nicholas, when the standard morality within the hierarchy is to ignore the real truth, and to portray as truth whatever unfalsifiable possibility most suits the interests of the particular faction that is making the claim? Because that's where we're heading.

TomTom

Simon Stephenson, you make good points. Why not let HMRC review Coulson's arrangements ? It is after all HMRC Approval that is required for Severance Packages to be treated as such; although Coulson was not fired, so there are grey areas in his use of tax-advantaged redundancy arrangements.

Clearly if HMRC were to investigate a) Coulson b) Met Police Officers on the take c) MPs expenses d) Journalists expenses e) Mulcaire and Rees payments from NI f) Tax Deductibility of illegal payments and bribes by NI

We would all be able to breathe a sigh of relief

FvH

@SimonStephenson - I think my moral compass might be less finely tuned than yours - I couldn't really care less if Coulson had a personal masseuse paid for by Murdoch when he was working for Cameron, my point is that POLITICALLY it does and will matter more and more (and those of us on the right should be well prepared for this )
So far on the forum there is a lot of denial and anger rather than cool political analysis

Tom Pride

All you need to know about Robert Peston’s hardwired BBC “impartiality”:

Robert Peston @Peston
David Starkey's nasty ignorance is best ignored, not worthy of comment or debate - though I fear there will be a media feeding frenzy
Twitter 13 August 2011

In twitter veritas ?

Nicholas

Simon Stephenson. I don't disagree and I think that those who live by the sword (in this case "spin" aka propaganda) should probably die by the sword. I hold no brief for Cameron, a disappointing and increasingly irritating PM, but I positively loathe the Leftist collective, the greatest threat to Britain since the Nazis. And in terms of balance this story ain't.

I agree with you too about standard morality which makes it especially galling when Cameron climbs into the pulpit and wags his finger at us. Where do we go? I don't know, but until the true Right can marshal itself, consolidate and present a front of relentless, concerted attack like the Left does, using a common, scripted theme, I don't hold out much hope. I have long thought Cameron underestimated the problem and from Day One lazily failed to tackle the Leftist establishment which having brainwashed and blackmailed a whole generation of voters is now going to continue to undermine and destroy him with the help of the BBC.

arnoldo87's post is priceless, because it completely disregards the balance of power held by the media. We had endless scandals and shocking revelations of corruption under New Labour, but the media chose to ignore/downplay them. One of the issues is that the minor scandals and gaffes of the Conservatives are so much more important in the eyes of the media than the major scandals and deceits of Labour. Look at this post. Compare it to the Spectator's treatment of Neathergate - and the Spectator is supposed to be a right of centre rag. Ha di ha.

FvH

@SirEveradDigby - apologies I had missed your earlier comment at 10.34am - genuine laughter from me re; being accused of being member of the "political class" !!!!
I was a member of FCS in the late 80's but I'm not sure that counts
I certainly don't disagree that the average voter may well not be too bothered about the ins and outs of Hackgate but that will certainly not matter - IF Cameron is caught with his trousers down over Coulson then he will have to go, no matter what we all think on here
That's political real life !!
My point is that the party should be prepared for that happening as with each revelation it becomes more not less likely
Sad perhaps, but certainly true

RKing

FvH or can I call you prat for short?

Your posts are like school playground twaddle.
Bye the way guess who's going out with.....
..... I'll let you fill in the blanks!!

Simon Stephenson.

FvH : 1.05pm

Yes, sorry, I didn't intend for it to be read that you agreed with my post, just that you were apart from most of the commenters in recognising the Coulson/Cameron/Conservatives affair as something of importance, and as such something that professional journalists should, and will, be reporting to the public, irrespective of their fathers' political affiliations.

Rhoda Klapp

Simon, you are not mistaken to suspect the relationship. Maybe there is something there which is not quite right. But the whole damn thing, the entire behaviour and incestuous relationships of the political class and the media is just so bent that this little bit matters scarcely at all. You must know I don't speak for the conservative party, or hold them to a slacker standard. But I think the depths to which we are sunk now mean we cannot take seriously some breathless story from the BBC which even if it were true would mean nothing (the actual story of NI pay, not the Coulson/Tories relationship as a whole). It seems we cannot expect, or even ask, them all to behave properly, so we must judge them (all, pols and media) on their effectiveness. And the fact that they are all, of whatever tribe, completely bloody useless, is a story which you will not see on the news.

Nicholas

"So far on the forum there is a lot of denial and anger rather than cool political analysis"

I don't think there is denial. I think everyone realises the power of Leftist propaganda and the way it is whipped up by the media, including it seems the Spectator. That there is true harm in the story doesn't matter, it would still be damaging regardless because of the skewed and dishonest approach to news reporting.

Anger? Yes, for those very reasons.

"Cool political analysis"? - a lie has travelled half way round the world before the truth can get its boots on. Labour and their media chums know that only too well. Analysing the threat is all very well but something needs to be done about it too.

Peter From Maidstone

Nicholas, I agree with you. What is so shocking about the Spectator coverage is that it never deals with the real issues but is always consumed with Westminster village trivia.

As has been said above, 'Man receives money owed to him' IS NOT a story. PM likely to deliver even more powers and closer integration to the EU IS a story but it is never properly covered. Unlimited immigration IS a story but is never properly covered.

strapworld

We have Watson, The Guardian, Peston and the BBC. It is, frankly, a conspiracy. We should be asking how much the Guardian was paying the police. If the policeman who is suspended did give information to the Guardian, it most certainly was not for the good of his/ her health.

The Guardian, if it was that paper, is guilty of corrupting a police officer a very serious offence! WHY is not Nelson Fraser, and his team, not raising this on a daily basis. Is everything left to Guido?

I also agree with Rhoda about Cameron.

Watson is in possession of information, from whom? Similarily Peston. Should they not face an investigation?

It has to be followed up. Is Nelson up to the job?

Sir Everard Digby

FvH@1.20 pm. 'Political real life' Have you not noticed that what is real in politics is actually completely disconnected from real life? You seem confused yourself. Stop listening to them.

You appear to think Cameron will do the honourable thing at some point in his career when faced with a scenario in which real people would be sacked.

Blair did not;Brown did not,Mandleson did not,Blunkett did not.

Why would you think Cameron is going to? That is both unreal and unpolitical.

Ahmed Khan

Complete and utter rubbish!!! gutter journalism at it's best.

Simon Stephenson.

Nicholas

The Left know they are correct. It is like a faith to them, and no matter what empirical evidence is presented, or becomes available, they are unshakeable. Lying, deceiving, conning their way to popular support is not just an OK thing to do, it's an imperative, because to do otherwise is to allow people to live without embracing the faith.

The Right, on the other hand, have constructed their belief system from probabilities and most-likelihoods. Their position is not that they can't be wrong - unlike the Left, they appear to be aware of human fallibility - but that substantively they are more likely to be correct than they are to be incorrect.

So there's a chasm between the structures of the competing ideologies, and to my mind the Right is using completely the wrong strategy in trying to compete with the Left in the dishonesty stakes. The way forward for the Right is to be scrupulous in its honesty, and the accuracy of its claims, and to set honesty and reality as the only dividing line with the Left upon which it is prepared to commit to battle. Discard dishonesty, and fight the Left on the basis that its fixation has caused it to become a pack of liars. There's no future in a battle over which side's lies are the better lies.

RDC

As one of your better legally (and managerially) informed posters pointed out above, the terms of a legal compromise agreement are highly confidential. Save for clauses that would stop competition with the late employer for a period, it would be a breach of contract for a Coulson to reveal the terms.
By the way, in media at the time it was wholly standard to have a two year payoff entitlement in contracts for very senior execs. The negotiation would come on whether it was paid in one lump sum (discounted quite heavily) or over the full period.
Thus
1. The contract seems absolutely normal
2. It has irritated me for years that top execs leave companies as "resigned" and get the payoff anyway. Just read any corporate annual report a year after a top "resignation" to see that.
3. Charles Allen, just taken on by Labour to reform and reshape their party "resigned" as CEO of ITV. Check out his huge payments and pension entitlements.
Enough said.
I don't normally go "BBC hunting", but the fact that Robert Peston, not a political journalist (ho ho) has run this story is amazing. He must understand compromise agreements. Did he run a story on Peter Mandelson (and all the others) being paid by the EU whilst a cabinet member? It's worse (but still not legally wrong).
You are wholly wrong to suggest that the Conservatives should have found out the terms of Coulson's severance. They could not have done.

Simon Stephenson.

Rhoda Klapp : 1.41pm

Rhoda, the point of the Peston report is to query the authenticity of the picture that has been painted about Coulson's separation from News International during his time with the Conservatives. If it is closer to reality that he was fundamentally a Murdoch stooge - one who was accepted, if not perhaps welcomed, by the Conservatives as a quid pro quo for the access he secured them with the NI hierarchy - then we have been lied to.

Maybe this lie, if this is what it is, is not about a particularly important subject, but the reality is that the importance would be in the lie, and the attitude of the people who chose to tell it - not the subject about which it was told. Watergate was a relatively minor infringement - what made the whole episode important was Nixon's decision to use deceit to try to avoid what would probably have been no more than a pin-prick of trouble.

Simon Stephenson.

strapworld : 2.06pm

"The Guardian, if it was that paper, is guilty of corrupting a police officer a very serious offence!"

OK, strapworld, how high on the list of serious offences would you place this, compared to, say, a media organisation attempting to corrupt a political party by guaranteeing it supportive coverage in return for favourable political treatment of its applications to expand its media empire?

David Ossitt

James Forsyth; does it not make you pause for thought when almost all who have posted comment here hold opinions that are contrary to the gist of this blog.

Hebert Thornton, Charles, Nick, Rhoda Klapp, Nicholas, P from M and Chris Lancashire have just about covered all of the points that I might have made, except that I have very strange feelings about Robert Peston.

Apart from his dreadful diction, his inability to enunciate words in anything other than a staccato rant, he has an agenda, an agenda that is not that of a supposedly impartial BBC spokesman for business and finance, I am of the opinion that he is acting as someone’s mouthpiece, but I know not who.

Tron

I heard this on the BBC and could not see where the story was. They have repeated it endlessly just to please their comrades in Labour.
Mandelson, a Champagne Socialist who has never done a days work in his life buys an £8,000,000. house one year after leaving government. That is a story worth looking into.

Rhoda Klapp

Simon, you must have a pretty naive view of modern political life if the lie to which you refer strikes you as even unusual. NI and Labour were in bed, and NI shifted its attentions to the tories when they looked like winning. But they are ALL at it, all the time. So what? 'Politician acts honestly and honourably' would be the most surprising headline. This story is pretty much 'dog has fleas'. Now can we get on with links between Labour and the BBC? No, thought not.

It occurs that maybe my inability to see what the fuss is about is that I have no problem with Rupert Murdoch. He brings me Futurama and the Simpsons (who do not hesitate to take the piss out of him). Media mogul sells media, wants to expand. Big deal. Can we deal with the BBC monopoly? Thought not.

(Simon, on a personal note, a pleasure to debate you, solid arguments, no abuse, clear writing. Thanks.)

arnoldo87

Nicholas @ 1.17

Some fascinating insights here. For instance this little gem:-

"We had endless scandals and shocking revelations of corruption under New Labour, but the media chose to ignore/downplay them."

Let's take the first possibility that you suggest - that the media ignored these scandals and examples of corruption. This raises the question of how you knew about them.

The second possibility - that the media downplayed them - is also interesting because it implies that you knew more about them than was reported.

Either way Nicholas your obvious insider knowledge here is very damning Sir (or should I say Comrade?)

arnoldo87

Rhoda Klapp,

I am with Simon Stephenson on this one in that it absolutely must not be regarded as par for the course for politicians to lie to the public about anything. We should demand probity from our leaders.

As it happens, I really can't believe that Cameron is part of a cover-up here, and suspect that due diligence on the Coulson contract was pretty slipshod on the part of CCHQ.

strapworld

Simon Stephenson. Which political party are you writing about. The Labour Party were in hock to Murdoch for far longer than the Tories. So can you say in all honesty that the Labour Party would not have agreed to the Murdoch and Sky takeover? Of course you cannot.

I personally view the corruption of a police officer far higher than that as I have more respect for people than you obviously have. I also would love a FOX NEWS UK to challenge the biased socialist BBC.

Does that answer your question?

Michael Dixon

Peston sounded feeble and a touch desperate when he was delivering this "scoop."

Paddy

So what!

Rhoda Klapp

Arnoldo, we are so far from probity that I despair for it. That is why I espouse competence, at least that would be a start.

Rhoda Klapp

..and then I looked at it another way? This was all so Murdoch could buy some shares, and needed the permission of some jumped-up functionary? Then it is all down to politicians requiring that permission must be granted for a commercial favour, when freedom would allow the purchase to take place anyway. Politicians rigging the game so that others must curry their favour. Positively medieval.

Nicholas

arnoldo87 you are trying to be far too clever. All of the incidents were reported. It is a question of the emphasis that was given to them by the media (e.g. reported in one outlet picked up by how many?), the extent to which they were 'run' and the number of those jumping on the bandwagon to comment on them publically. One of the best examples is Neathergate which was even dropped like a stone by the Spectator.

Any conservative will fully understand this. Nice try but no cigar.

Simon Stephenson.

Strapworld : 7.38pm

I'm talking about the act of corruption between a notional media organisation and a notional political party. How seriously would you regard that compared to a notional media organisation paying a single notional policeman for a bit of advance information?

If you're going to argue principles you must deal in principles, not compromise them depending upon who's involved.

Simon Stephenson.

arnoldo87 (7.13pm) Rhoda Klapp (8.13pm and 8.16pm) and Nicholas (8.25pm)

Forgive me if I am being too simplistic, but there are a number of things we need to recognise:-

1. We don't have a choice between purity and corruption - in human society, there will always be some corruption, and our choice is how much of it we wish to keep out/drive out of our system, and how much we are, for pragmatic reasons, willing to tolerate.

2. Arguing for greater probity is not the same as arguing for total purity, and to attempt to kill discussion by claiming that it is is argumentative deceit.

3. Accepting that no individual is able on his own to bring about U-turns in social understanding is no justification for not trying. There are many stages in the process of social change, and some of them start with one person having a revolutionary thought with which he impresses a few friends and colleagues, who then each impress a few more friends and colleagues, and so on like a chain-reaction.

Certainly, a great deal of change is brought about by reacting to events, but positive change can also be identified in the laboratory, so to speak. We don't need to wait for social disintegration to take place before we recognise that our policies are instrumental in bringing it about.

Nicholas

arnoldo87 - re New Labour scandal fill yer boots.

http://www.labour-watch.com/sleaze.htm