Subscribe to The Spectator

Saturday 26 May 2012

Latest issue

Buy the current issue

Jobs at Telegraph

Tuesday, 30th August 2011

Mind the gap

Simon Wessely 4:15pm

As a break from Westminster, readers might enjoy this article, from the latest issue of the magazine, on the efforts to undertand ME or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

In 1987, I went to work as a trainee psychiatrist at the National Hospital for Neurology in Queen’s Square in London. One of my jobs was to see a group of patients who were not popular with the neurologists who ran the place. The patients had symptoms that might have had a neurological explanation — muscle pain, inability to walk, being unable to think clearly, feeling exhausted after the most minimal physical or mental exertion — yet the neurologists thought that they were at best suffering from depression or at worst swinging the lead. They found it irritating that the patients insisted they had an illness called ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis). ‘I can’t understand why they think it’s an encephalomyelitis,’ one neurologist told me. He was a world expert on encephalomyelitis, an extremely rare and usually fatal inflammation of the brain. He then referred a patient to me with a note: ‘Dear Simon, please see this patient. There is nothing wrong with her.’

But there was. The more I saw, the more convinced I became that the condition was a genuine, serious, debilitating illness. Doctors never liked the term ME, however, and soon afterwards we started to follow the American lead and call it Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). At that time, patients at ‘the Square’, as the hospital was called, were usually told that the only thing they could do was to rest and either hope that the condition would go away or that doctors would come up with a magic bullet.

I started, with a group of other doctors, to try to do better. Over the next two decades, we developed two different approaches to rehabilitating CFS patients, based on the idea that even if we didn’t know what caused the illness, we could still help patients manage their symptoms and regain control of their lives. Our two approaches were named Graded Exercise Therapy and Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. The evidence soon showed that they worked. In 2007, some 20 years after we started, the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence approved both treatments as safe and effective.

I am proud of what we achieved. We set up what was the first and is now probably the largest NHS service for CFS sufferers. We have now seen over 3,000 patients, and the majority of them are very grateful for the treatment they have received. Trawl the internet, however, and you will find some who claim that I and other professionals are the architects of a vast conspiracy to cover up the real nature of the illness, that we portray CFS sufferers as malingering neurotics. They say we are denying its sufferers their treatment and benefits by falsely claiming that the condition is ‘all in the mind’, i.e. non-existent— which has never been our view. The evidence is that, like most illnesses, CFS is a mixture of the physical and the psychological.

Our critics have devoted much energy (irony intended) to denouncing us as pawns of the drug or insurance industries. I have been called a new Dr Mengele, the next Dr Shipman; somebody said that my wife is a ‘rat who should be thrown into a cage with infected mice’. One blogger wrote a post addressed to me in which he called me ‘the born personal physician of Heydrich, Goebbels or Hitler’. I am frequently accused of having thrown a CFS-suffering child into water to see if he would sink or swim.

OK, let’s keep a sense of proportion. It’s only a small number of people who do this. I have been seeing CFS sufferers now for over 20 years and our patients bear little resemblance to the internet extremists. They are perplexed, uncertain, and desperate for help from whatever quarter, provided that they are treated with respect by someone who believes they are ill. Nor are they anti-psychiatry.

For the outraged minority, however, being referred to a psychiatrist or psychologist is tantamount to being told that the symptoms are imaginary. It is understandable that people are sensitive on this matter. But the solution must be to address their misunderstandings, rather than assuming that CFS will only be taken seriously when psychiatrists are removed from the scene.

My mother told me that to specialise in psychiatry, I would need a thick skin. Usually I have one. But three things here anger me. First, the repeated claim that we don’t think our patients have an illness. They do, and to say otherwise is insulting.

Second, even if you don’t think that the treatments we pioneered are for you, it is wrong to try to stop others from benefiting from them. At present, the treatments pioneered at Queen’s Square are the best we have. They are by no means a cure — but nor are the treatments that we offer to sufferers from rheumatoid arthritis, MS, Parkinson’s, schizophrenia and many more. No one would advocate leaving them without any prospect of treatment.

And last, the malign tactics of the minority have helped to delay scientific progress: numerous scientists in other fields, including neurology, immunology and virology, have dipped their toes in the water of CFS, been scalded and given up.

It’s not so much the threatening emails and blogs that rile. It’s the more insidious stuff, the efforts to prevent my colleagues and me from doing our work: the bogus allegations of misconduct to ethics committees; the ridiculous claims to journals that we have hidden conflicts of interests; the long dossiers of imaginary sins sent to colleagues — the claims go on and on. The worst is the deliberate falsification of what we have said or written: quotes are circulated with the essential word ‘not’ deleted, for instance. And transcripts of our speeches are sometimes altered so that ‘yes’ becomes ‘no’.

How has it come to this? In the 19th century, psychiatry and neurology were not really separated, and even at the start of the 20th century, psychiatrists were still interested in the science of the brain, while some neurologists were skilled in the growing field of psychological rehabilitation. But the influence of Freud and his followers — who did believe that many illnesses were ‘all in the mind’ — led to an increasing separation of the two disciplines.

By and large, the current generation of psychiatrists accept that many disorders — autism, schizophrenia, bipolar, OCD, Alzheimer’s and others — are disorders of brain function. Yet the division between neurology and psychiatry remains. It is almost impossible, for example, to train in both fields in this country, unlike in Germany. A few years ago, I attended a US conference in which a scientist proposed that what was needed in CFS was more brain imaging. ‘If we could identify the problem with the brain, we could tell patients it’s not all in their heads,’ he said, without apparent irony.

We should not accept this separation. The Medical Research Council allocates funds via a single board for both neurosciences and mental health. The World Health Organisation, which runs something known as the International Classification of Diseases, a Sisyphean attempt to bring order to diagnostic chaos, is now working on yet another revision. They should think seriously about following the MRC lead and merging psychiatry and neurology into one category. This would rid us of the ‘all in the mind’ slur, and let us get on with our jobs — improving the treatment of patients and their illnesses.

You can subscribe to the Spectator from just £1 an issue.

Filed under: Health (238 more articles) , Spectator (337 more articles)

Blogs: Martin Bright | Susan Hill | Alex Massie | Melanie Phillips | Faith Based | Cappuccino Culture

Actions: Email to a friend  |   Permalink   |   Comments (123) | Subscribe

Post this entry to:   del.icio.us | Digg | Newsvine | NowPublic | Reddit

Comments Post comment

Frank P

August 30th, 2011 4:46pm Report this comment

Ohhh ...FFS!

Ian Pemberton

August 30th, 2011 5:13pm Report this comment

Simon

An interesting piece. I suspect that the artificial split of mind and body in modern medicine goes back further than Freud to Descartes - he laid the foundations to this false view. Keep up the good work and good luck with the detractors - no doubt a few will post here.

James W

August 30th, 2011 5:46pm Report this comment

Frank P - there are a set of buttons marked "Previous", "Next" and "Back to Coffee House". It's easier to click on these than submitting such a short dismissive response.

Open your mind and/or engage with the article.

Quickly shutting down any debate that falls outside your own specfic interests and opinions is such a tragic waste.

London Calling

August 30th, 2011 6:12pm Report this comment

I apologize if my comment is repeated...only your comment box did not close properly..:)

Frank P

August 30th, 2011 6:31pm Report this comment

James W
Quackery squared! Does that help?
How many more parasites can we afford sucking on the resources of the NHS? I thought the idea was that there would be a culling of waste, not new ideas for extending it exponentially.

Btw, you express your thoughts your way, I'll stick to my shorthand, iydm. No doubt you'll diagnose that as Frank P Syndrome. Perhaps you'll work on a new medicine for it with your Pharma friends.

Louisa

August 30th, 2011 6:53pm Report this comment

As usual, more charm from Frank P. You are obviously in need of treatment yourself Frank but not the variety described above.

London Calling

August 30th, 2011 7:18pm Report this comment

My original is not getting through...I'll try again later...the copy and pasting it into your comment box has caused your comments box to block it for some reason...:)

It started with ...

My Doctor informed me I had a slit personality, so I asked him if I could have a third opinion on that...;0

Jeremy

August 30th, 2011 7:23pm Report this comment

I think it ought to be remembered that Freud originally trained - and practised - as a neurologist.

Esther Siebert

August 30th, 2011 8:18pm Report this comment

I deeply regret, as do many in my ME/CFS support group in California, the attacks and death threats being made by a radical fringe of patients. They distract from the real issues of finding treatment for those of us suffering for so long. The disrespect and ridicule we've had to endure for so long is being confused with efforts to find some means of helping us cope. Still I wonder if any research is being done in England to find the biological cause/s and treatments of our illness. All I hear from England is about graded exercise and cognitive behavioral therapy.

I've been ill for 25 years now and have tried graded exercise alone and with physical therapists multiple times. It feels so good to move my body but because it very quickly results in a relapse, I have not been able to sustain graded exercise. The method implies that we are simply deconditioned and if we start exercising slowly enough, we will be able to build up stamina and improve or recover. Not true for me or any of the others I know.

Now however, Dr. Nancy Klimas of the University of Miama, who is a clinician and researcher who treats half AIDS patients and half ME/CFS patients, has proposed a system of exercise for us that prevents relapse and considers our physical state in her prescription. I invite patients in England to look into this system as a replacement for graded exercise to address our deconditioning from years of inactivity. I believe research here has shown that our physical reaction to exercise differs from that of normal sedentary people.

For those of us suffering from this often totally disabling illness, we do need help with depression, anxiety and general hopelessness. The difficulty lies in finding meaning and peace despite a lifestyle filled with disappointment and loss. Not easy at all. I believe CBT might be helpful in re-framing our thinking and thereby improving our emotional health. But probably equally important is logotherapy, the psychology of meaning developed by Victor Frankl. If you feel that your life has no meaning, that you are in-valid and have no purpose, no part of CBT will be of help. First you need a reason to live.

What I've found is that no matter how sick I am, there are ways I can be of service to others. And that a life lived only for myself is not worth living. These realizations came to me through working the 12 steps of the anonymous programs.

Psychiatric drugs have been helpful to me and my psychiatrist has recommended a drug, Cymbalta, which helps Fibromyalgia patients, to try for depression and anxiety. Unfortunately it has no effect on my energy level so far. I no longer care whether my illness is psychiatric or not; if you believe it is psychiatric in origin, find a cure for it! I'll embrace it! Even if it doesn't explain why my illness began with a 10-month Epstein-Barr virus infection. Virus'
can infect the brain too, after all.

Finally, we all need to note what Dr. Klimas said in the New York Times: I'd rather have AIDS in 2009 than Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. My CFS patients are much sicker than my AIDS patients.

We patients need to remember that shocking statement to validate the reality of our situation and illness and put aside the self-doubt brought about by years of dismissal and ridicule.

But we need not reject out of hand any sincere help being offered by psychiatrists, neurologists, therapists. Truly, we don't know from whence our help shall come.

Esther Siebert

Bob

August 30th, 2011 8:29pm Report this comment

Yes, I agree Pemberton, there is no place for those who think the mind can cause anything. There is only the brain.

ME does of course include many other symptoms and signs that cannot ordinate or be derived from the brain.

It is time the Wessely School were left behind so that science can progress on what is already an accepted neurological disease with a vast body of biomedical research showing the underlying abnormalities in every system of the body.

Scott Wilson

August 30th, 2011 8:29pm Report this comment

As a patient who does think that Simon Wessely's work has been harmful for patients, I want to make it quite clear that it is not because he is a psychiatrist, or that I have any concerns about the stigma of mental health, but because of the paternalistic and often incompetent approach to CFS/ME that he has taken. His early work exaggerating the link between depression and disability for patients, and downplaying the role of viral triggers, set the scene for a decade of quackery which has continued long after Wessely himself has changed his own mind.

If doctors are to expand their own purview to include the psychosocial factors of illness, then we need to also expand the regulation and over-sight which they face. Power without responsibility or accountability often leads to the sort of resentment and distrust which we have seen develop with CFS/ME.

CFS/ME patients have been used as guinea pigs for a biopsychosocial approach to medicine - given the animosity it has resulted in, I think that we need to recognise this experiment has now failed.

Frank P

August 30th, 2011 8:34pm Report this comment

And another thing

I loved the last line of the post: "you can subscribe to the Spectator for just £1"

Obviously the post was truncated, the remainder of the last sentence was: "particularly if you are a patient of Simon Wessely."

And James W - are you his dad, his son or his brother?

Angela Kennedy

August 30th, 2011 8:42pm Report this comment

There has recently been a sustained and ongoing negative PR media campaign claiming ME/CFS sufferers and supporters are criminally harassing researchers. There are key problems with these articles/radio programmes:

1. The allegations themselves are unsafe. For example, an anonymous comment that "you will all pay" is deemed a 'death threat', when no threat is actually made, and the comment appears to denote instead a prediction of being accountable. Ironically, David Cameron used the phrase "you will pay" towards rioters recently, without it being deemed a 'death threat'.

2. There has also been a false categorisation of legitimate, non-criminal action by ME/CFS sufferers and their supporters (such as requests under FOI legislation, official complaints through various public agencies etc.) as 'malicious harassment', or 'abuse' or 'intimidation’. Legitimate actions are juxtaposed with alleged acts of criminal harassment to falsely construct non- criminal parties as harassers.

3. These articles/programmes then go on to misrepresent any objections to psychogenic dismissal of the illnesses diagnosed as ME or CFS. Reasonable objectors have been falsely deemed 'extremist', even ‘criminal‘, but no chance is given to such objectors to express their position.

But why DO patients object to psychogenic explanations for their illnesses? They do firstly because psychogenic explanations for somatic illnesses are often implausible, and the result of fallacious medical reasoning: a lack of bio-medical knowledge, on an individual or disciplinary level, gives rise to often increasingly absurd and confused metaphysical explanations (beliefs, lies, delusions, the awesome 'Carrie'-like kinetic power of the mind over the body to nth degrees) by default. This leads to psychogenic dismissal of serious physical illness, so that patients' lives and health (and quality of life) are endangered. Psychogenic misdiagnoses have led to tragic, premature deaths. One example in the medical literature is a woman with Creuztfeld-Jakob disease, who choked to death because doctors thought her illness was psychogenic: her having had difficulties with coming out as lesbian, and a difficulty in finding organic signs (eventually found, but too late for the patient) leading to this fallacious conclusion.

Accompanying psychogenic dismissal of serious illness is the use of harmful treatments, such as incremental exercise regimes for people in cardiovascular and neurological failure (if you look at the medical literature this is a phenomenon related to ME/CFS, NOT caused by 'deconditioning'), or Cognitive Behavioural Therapy that blames the patient for 'thinking' themselves ill and not being able to recover.

On top of this, patients given psychogenic diagnoses are deemed, by medics and other health workers, other state institutions such as education and social security, communities, even families, as authors of their own misfortune, as moral deviants. This leads to contempt for patients from all directions and serious mistreatment, including, for example, but in no way limited to, the withholding of benefits for people in serious need.

So, a patient facing a psychogenic explanation, whether in a media campaign like in recent weeks, in an opinion piece from a young doctor, in a clinic, is facing a HIGH potential of misdiagnosis, with a HIGH potential for serious adverse effects of this. Rationality and self-preservation will inevitably lead to protestation from patients, though they may still find themselves, at least initially, reeling from such a whirlwind of absurdity from professionals they are exhorted to trust and defer to, and usually do.

As a supporter of the ME community (not a sufferer myself), while I condemn any ACTUAL acts of harassment and intimidation, I am nevertheless disgusted at the level of attack on and misrepresentation of sufferers these past few weeks in particular. That legitimate actions and public objections are being falsely characterised as 'harassment' is the most insidious part of this campaign.

M Walton

August 30th, 2011 8:45pm Report this comment

Oh dear oh dear. All those scientists working in bio-medical research into ME (such as gene signatures, immunological markers etc) must be really getting to you, Mr Wessely.

All the ones you say have given dipped a toe in and given up...funny how more and more bio-medical research, outside of any psychiatric framework are being published, and you have to start on a prolonged media defensive to sand-bag your intellectually impoverished castle. But don't worry - I'm sure you can keep blaming ME patients for their "illness beliefs" rather than enter into intellectual discussion with the scientists who oppose your neurological paradigms with real empirical research.

nasim marie jafry

August 30th, 2011 8:45pm Report this comment

Alas, it's not really about debate, James W, it's about criteria being wholly muddied and misused. Simon Wessely hijacked a neurological illness - ME - for reasons I will never truly understand - and remodelled it to suit his own (bio)psychosocial model, renaming it CFS in UK. He denied that ME existed, calling it ‘a belief that one has the illness ME’.

(Also, the terminology CFS when used in USA is what we know here as ME, it is confusing, but the USA is slowly adopting ME as the most apt name).

You can read the International Consensus Criteria of ME, published in Journal of Internal Medicine in July 2011, which expresses great concern about the criteria used by the Wessely school.

http://www.meassociation.org.uk/?p=7173

Crucially, the people who respond to psychological interventions of CBT and graded exercise (GET) have a less complex, less disabling 'fatigue' syndrome as defined by Simon in early 90s - CFS. They do not have ME, the neuroimmune illness.

In 1984, I was in a neurology ward having a plasma exchange and immunosuppression for ME. I was 20 yrs old, my illness triggered by an enterovirus. The consultant neurologist who treated me was not in the least irritated, but I suspect he might be that Simon is so hotly in denial of a diagnosis of ME - just like he is in denial of the now 5000 papers on the biomedical aspects of ME. And denial of the 1969 WHO classification of ME as neurological. If Simon wants so desperately to be a neurologist, he really should not have specialised in psychiatry.

You can read more here on the government position that ME is neurological.
http://www.investinme.org/Article-704%20UK%20Government%20Position%20on%20ME.htm

This is what people with ME feel angry about: Simon Wessely – and his followers - have conflated two illnesses and caused absolute chaos. It’s that simple. We are not detractors, we are people whose lives have been broken by a dreadful illness. We only want to be diagnosed and treated by people qualified to do so, is that so wrong? I am relieved to have been seen by a neurologist, many years before Simon started changing the narrative.

Rich

August 30th, 2011 9:03pm Report this comment

There may be no specific markers for CFS/ME but many of us have many abnormalities in immune parameters, which can be measured. They are biochemical phenomena.
True, changes in immune function can also occur in e.g. depression and respond in some patients to anti-depressants. The mind/brain/body influence each other and psychological states can influence biology profoundly. But this should not lead to endorsement of simplistic psychological models which put ALL the emphasis on psychological causes and specifically, in the NHS, "false illness belief", the basis of most NHS treatment of fatigue state illness.
Mental illness should be appreciated in the light of psychiatry and neurology. Similarly physical expressed illness involving neurology may well have a psychiatric aspect. This is the case for e.g. lupus, MS, Parkinson's. If e.g. the brain is inflamed, or under the influence of noxious chemicals due to e.g. inflamation in other parts of the body, that is in a sense "mental". The brain is involved, there may well be psychiatric symptoms too. But the physical inflamatory state deserves investigation/treatment as a physical phenomenon. It is natural to allow that there may well be a primary physical cause and look for one. Even if the cause cannot be found,it is reasonable to treat such inflammation and its consequences, if possible, as a physical problem. Without denying that psychological states such as stress can also contribute to inflammatory states and may need treating too, it is entirely illegitimate is to claim for no good reason that the physical symptoms are caused soley by psychological states. That is an inversion of medicine and exactly what the "False illness belief" paradigm underlying CBT/GET as sole optionfor for ME sufferers represnts.

Derek Cantona

August 30th, 2011 9:55pm Report this comment

do you accept comments

Yvonne L

August 30th, 2011 10:22pm Report this comment

There are estimates of 250K people in the UK suffering from ME to viable degrees, 25% so severely they are bed-bound. SW has said that his clinic has treated in excess of 3000 patients; he has personally seen 1000. His recommended therapies are replicated in clinics throughout the UK, yet we seldom see letters from genuine ME patients thanking him for his work and their renewed health, or even from friends and family of those patients. We do, however, see letters from friends and families of sufferers who are crying out for effective treatment.

Jeremy

August 30th, 2011 10:36pm Report this comment

My point being that Freud always considered himself to be a man of science, and I am not at all sure that he would have regarded the division between the psyche and the brain to be as absolute as this article suggests.

Gerwyn

August 30th, 2011 10:52pm Report this comment

I did not know that an artificial split between the brain and the body existed in modern medicine.When did that happen?

Gerwyn

August 30th, 2011 10:58pm Report this comment

I think that it should be remembered that Freud falsified his case studies twisted data to fit his beliefs and that his theories are in direct conflict with modern neuroscienctific evidence.It should also be remembered that he was a cocaine addict

Occasional Ostrich

August 30th, 2011 11:15pm Report this comment

@London Calling 7:18pm

"a slit personality"

Obviously a suitable case for treatment.

papagray

August 30th, 2011 11:24pm Report this comment

hi folks, i am not qualified to really comment only the grounds i have been diagnoised with ME, from what i understand catagorising ME as CFS makes it a mental illness, hence invalidates any insurance you have..something which was adopted by the USA to save the bankers money i have been informed. reading the lines again i had bulber/spinal polio as a babay and no matter what drugs you give me it sends me to sleep now all after a fact i was given theholiday polio jab..i got ME..
its like looking through a fog, poor memeory, cannot spell anymore sorry tired..
but can someone stop bickering who is right and find a soloution for the problem.
if the person wants fame
GO ON THE X FACTOR

stop playing with peoples lives please

cambervanbrugh

August 30th, 2011 11:26pm Report this comment

Whatever ME and/or CFS actually is, it actually IS and it would be great if some serious ground was made re: getting to the bottom of both without all this strife and medical internecine warfare. My husband collapsed a couple of years ago with no warning and then spent the next two years coping with the most dire episodes of exhaustion, and he is a person with a motor on him, when healthy, believe me. After a plethora of worthless - and depressing - tests he has been left to fend for himself, gradually, he improves but it has taken months and the thing can and does reappear from time to time. Many friends and acquaintances have come forward to complain of just such a malaise: what, I wonder, is going on...?

celia joy

August 30th, 2011 11:27pm Report this comment

there is gene research to show immune system viral infection and much more physical signs of illness not mental health. see johnathon kerr research however this was blocked by the medical research council. imagine where we would be know if this research went ahead

not only that but many other researchers who have shown problems with heart and many other body systems inclucing blood flow to brain are always turned down for funding almost no funding ever for these researchers. see me research uk who did a study showing the above and also that 40 per cent of m.e. patients were wrongly diagnosed and had other serious and treatable illness.

26 medical experts with a combined 400 y3a4s or expeiene of treating m.e. patients from 13 countries have produced a document full of medical science and medical research papers

http://www.meassociation.org.uk/?p=7173

for those with enquiring minds wondering what the real story is prof malcolm hooper states it very well here.
http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/Response-to-Observer-article.html

the fact is that these treatments simon offers have left many housebound and suffering a life time of disability and have even lead to fatal outcomes

2trueblue

August 30th, 2011 11:43pm Report this comment

Most people who have ME/CFS are never referred to a specialist. They are treated by their GP and we all know that this is a question of luck. I had a very good GP and also with medical knowledge myself went to a lot of alternative people. It was the best move I made. There is no easy way to diagnose ME/CFS but it is certainly not a psychological illness. I don't care what people call it, I have been extremely lucky with the people I was treated by and whenever I have a relapse find I can deal with it. I am an energetic person and when it happened it was galvanising, and I had a get GP who was bright and did not offer me something for depression. I would hate to be in the same position today where my current GP looks at his computer and never even takes my pulse! I don't care what he thinks, he is just a modern GP who relies on his computer and knows nothing about patient treatment. I also don't care what anybody else thinks, I'll live.

Anon

August 30th, 2011 11:53pm Report this comment

Yvonne: there are many patients (like me) who have fully recovered from CFS after using psychological treatments. We generally don't publicise the fact because there are too many nutbars out there who harrass us when we post anything. Mostly we just get on with our lives.

Jeremy

August 31st, 2011 1:05am Report this comment

Gerwyn:

"I think that it should be remembered that Freud falsified his case studies twisted data to fit his beliefs and that his theories are in direct conflict with modern neuroscienctific evidence. It should also be remembered that he was a cocaine addict."

Freud also worked variously as a draper's assistant, an arms dealer and a black and white minstrel, before going on to found the popular beat group, Nirvana.

Susan Wenger

August 31st, 2011 1:09am Report this comment

"Our two approaches were named Graded Exercise Therapy and Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. The evidence soon showed that they worked."

The real question is, on whom did they work?

As others above have mentioned, the disease renamed "chronic fatigue syndrome" was given a definition so broad as to be a wastebasket diagnosis. There may be a number of people who have seen modest improvements on CBT and GET. Our skepticism is that those patients actually had ME to begin with.

I would be interested to know what you think of the new International Consensus Criteria for diagnosing ME. One of the things the ICC specifies is that sufferers must experience post-exertional neuroimmune exhaustion, in which symptoms become worse with even minimal exertion. Do you believe that these specific patients would benefit from graded exercise therapy?

James W

August 31st, 2011 9:01am Report this comment

@Frank P - I'm no relation to the author of this piece, I am not part of the medical industry and have zero knowledge of this topic whatsoever (hence I didn't comment on the article itself).

In fact I find the comments that argue against the article as interesting as the article itself.

I only responded to your comment because you rushed in with a pointless "Daily Mail" style rant trying to close down the debate before it even began. I thought that was a shame.

Sean Haffey

August 31st, 2011 9:17am Report this comment

My wife is the most active person I know - she can be quite exhausting just to watch.

Yet a little under 10 years ago, she suddenly started suffering extreme fatigue. For someone who needed 5 or 6 hours' sleep a night she deteriorated at one point to someone who slept for 23 hours a day. She couldn't climb the stairs.

She was extremely fortunate in having a supportive manager and company and over a period of several months regained 90% of her previous health.

Who knows what caused it? We don't. She was incredibly frustrated not to be able to get around but eventually recovered.

wisden

August 31st, 2011 9:23am Report this comment

Were patients in the PACE trial fully informed of the principal investigators' links with the insurance industry and the DWP, before they gave their consent to take part?

"PACE trial Conflicts of interest (extract)
PD White has done voluntary and paid consultancy work for the UK Departments of Health and Work and Pensions and Swiss Re (a reinsurance company). ... J Bavinton has undertaken paid work for the insurance industry. .... T Chalder has done consultancy work for insurance companies .... M Sharpe has done voluntary and paid consultancy work for government and for legal and insurance companies..."

"PACE trial Acknowledgments (extract)
The PACE trial was funded by the UK Medical Research Council (MRC G0200434), the Department of Health for England, the UK Department for Work and Pensions, and the Chief Scientist Office of the Scottish Government Health Directorates."

"There have been numerous cases where advisors to the DWP have also had consultancy roles in medical insurance companies. Particularly the Company UNUMProvident. Given the vested interest private medical insurance companies have in ensuring CFS/ME remain classified as a psychosocial illness there is blatant conflict of interest here. The Group find this to be an area for serious concern and recommends a full investigation of this possibility by the appropriate standards body. It may even be that assessment by a medical 'expert' in a field of
high controversy requires a different methodology of benefit assessment." www.erythos.com/gibsonenquiry

lborgia

August 31st, 2011 9:32am Report this comment

This has full permission to repost from Prof Hooper. It is at a tangent to the main thrust of the 'I'm Wessely It's all about me' original text but I'm sure it's relevant to the wider debate:

Permission to repost.

On the 18th of July, Professor Hooper sent a letter to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and to the Secretary of State for Health on the discrepancy between the departments' classifications of ME. This letter is already in the public domain:

http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/dwp_doh_classification.htm

To date he has received no response from the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions but has received a reply from the Department of Health. The following letter is Professor Hooper's response to that reply:

http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/Butler-letter-reply-28-8-11.htm

From Malcolm Hooper Ph.D.,B.Pharm.,C.Chem.,MRIC
Emeritus Professor of Medicinal Chemistry
University of Sunderland, SUNDERLAND SR2 3SD

Chief Scientific Adviser to the Gulf Veterans' Association
President: the National Gulf War Veterans and Families Association, NGVFA, (2002)

Mr Adam Butler
Customer Service Centre
Department of Health
Richmond House
79 Whitehall
London
SW1A 2NS

28th August 2011

Your ref: TO00000632586

Dear Mr Butler

re: The major discrepancy between the Department of Health and the Department for Work and Pensions on the same medical issue

Thank you for your letter of 11th August 2011 sent in response to my letter of 18th July 2011 to The Rt Hon Iain Duncan Smith MP, Secretary of State at the Department for Work and Pensions that was copied to The Rt Hon Andrew Lansley MP, Secretary of State for Health, on whose behalf you replied.

I am grateful for the courtesy shown by Mr Lansley, a similar courtesy not having been shown by Mr Duncan Smith from whose Department I have received no acknowledgement, so this letter will be copied to him.

In my letter I drew attention to a serious error in the Statutory Payments Manual (SPM 50605) used by decision-makers, namely the categorisation of ME as a mental health disorder.

In your reply you confirm that this error was the responsibility of the DWP: “You suggest that guidance used by decision-makers in the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) is unsatisfactory. The DWP’s Health and Benefits Division was responsible for drafting the guidance”.

It is, of course, the case that Professor Peter White, a psychiatrist who works for the permanent health insurance industry, was and remains lead advisor on “CFS” to the DWP and, despite irrefutable evidence that he is incorrect, he is firmly committed to his belief that ME is a somatoform (mental) disorder and he advises the DWP accordingly.

Herein lies the major discrepancy between two Departments of State: whilst the DWP rejects the WHO ICD-10 classification of ME as a neurological disorder and follows Professor White’s beliefs that it is a mental disorder, the Department of Health nominally accepts the WHO ICD-10 classification of it as a neurological disorder.

There are in fact two related issues, one being the discrepancy between two Departments of State outlined above and the other relating specifically to the DoH, this being the failure of the DoH to comply with the 1995 mandate to observe the WHO-ICD-10 classification system (see below).

The first issue

To summarise (and reiterate) the position of both Departments of State and their previous public statements about the nature of ME:

1. the Department of Health accepted ME as an organic disease in 1987 (Hansard, HC 27th November 1987, column 353)

2. in a letter dated 13th March 1992 to James Pawsey MP (ref: POH (3) 2484/200), in his capacity as Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Health, Stephen Dorrell MP set out the official view of the Department of Health on ME: referring to the Disability Handbook produced by the Disability Living Allowance Board, the Minister stated: “The Handbook recognises that in some persons with ME there is evidence of persisting viral infections in muscles, with some evidence of muscle damage. Hence, a physical cause for ME is recognised”

3. on 16th August 1992, Stephen Dorrell MP, Minister of Health, went on public record confirming that “ME is established as a medical condition” when he addressed a meeting of the Leicestershire ME Group

4. not only the DoH but also the DWP recognises that ME is a physical disorder. In the British Library Current Awareness Topics Update for March 2000 is listed (on page 6) the following: Social Security Ruling, SSR 99-2p; titles II and XVI; evaluating cases involving chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). Fed Regist 1999 Apr 30;64(83);23380-4: “In accordance with 20 CFR 402.35(b)(1), the Commissioner of Social Security gives notice of Social Security Ruling SSR 99-2p. This Ruling clarifies disability policy for the evaluation and adjudication of disability claims involving Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). This Ruling explains that, when it is accompanied by appropriate medical signs or laboratory findings, CFS is a medically determinable impairment that can be the basis for a finding of “disability”. This Ruling ensures that all adjudicators will use the same policies and procedures in evaluating disability claims involving CFS, and provides a consolidated statement of these policies and procedures”

5. this was reported in the Disability Rights Bulletin, Summer 2000, in the following terms: “In assessing DLA higher rate mobility component for people with ME, recent guidance advises decision makers to assume in the vast majority of cases that the claimant has a physical disablement. The Commissioner, in CDLA/2822/99, held that an award of the higher rate mobility component can be made on the basis of the physical element of the condition. Guidance (DMG Memo Vol 10-3/00) advises decision makers that, in the vast majority of claims, if a doctor says the claimant has ME or CFS then that can be taken as an opinion that they have a physical disablement”

6. on 18th September 2002, the Director of Communications at NICE issued a Communications Report which stated: “Following discussions with the Department of Health and other national agencies the Institute has adopted a new classification system that will be applied Institute-wide” (2.7.1.1); “The ICD classification has been used as a basis for the new Institute classification directed at the informed reader” (2.7.1.4); “ICD-10…classification codes are mandatory for use across England” (2.7.1.5)

7. ME has been included as a neurological disorder in the UK Read Codes (F286) used by all GPs since 2003

8. by letter dated 11th February 2004 to the Countess of Mar, the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Department of Health, Lord Warner, confirmed that the DoH accepts the WHO classification of ME as a neurological disorder. That letter was placed by Lord Warner in the House library for access by all MPs.

9. ME has been included in the National Service Framework for long-term neurological condition since its inception in 2005

10. the DoH has confirmed on numerous occasions, many documented in Hansard, that the DoH itself and the UK Government accepts ME to be a neurological disorder, for example on 2nd June 2008 the then Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Lord Darzi, was unequivocal: “My Lords, the Government accept the World Health Organisation’s classification of CFS/ME as a neurological condition….I have acknowledged that CFS/ME is a neurological condition…the Government…have made it clear that… it is a neurological rather than a mental condition”

11. by letter dated 3rd August 2011 (reference TO00000632783), Tim Morgan from the Department of Health Customer Services Centre confirmed the following: “The ICD-10 is an NHS Information Standard….The NHS has a long history of using the ICD. There is a legal obligation for Department of Health to provide ICD data to the WHO for international comparison. The NHS was mandated to implement ICD-10 on 1 April 1995, at which time there was a formal consultation (emphasis added)….Implementation…applies to NHS organisations and their system suppliers, such as acute and foundation trusts, primary care trusts, and the NHS Information Centre”. (It is, of course, the case that Government officials such as yourself may use bogus names -- known as “office names” -- when writing to members of the public [“Civil servants use bogus names to sign official letters”; Roya Nikkhah; Sunday Telegraph; 20th June 2004], so the true authorship of both your own letter and that of Tim Morgan remains unconfirmed but must nonetheless be taken as authoritative documents).

You say in your letter: “As you may know, in 2007, NICE published Clinical Guideline 53 (CG53) on the diagnosis and management of CFS/ME in adults and children, to advise the NHS on the treatment of CFS/ME in England and Wales”. The documentary evidence outlined above makes it all the more troubling that the NICE Guideline Development Group which produced CG53 expressly rejected the WHO classification of ME as a neurological disorder and voted to remove from its deliberations its initial acceptance of ME as an organic disorder, this being confirmed by patient representative Tanya Harrison in her letter of resignation dated 16th July 2007 from the GDG: “the final straw came when the group voted to remove that ME/CFS is a physical illness”, which reflects the beliefs and advice of Professor Peter White to the DWP.

Mindful of the above evidence, it will not be sufficient for you to reply to this current letter saying that this discrepancy between two Departments of State is a medical matter for the PCTs to address.

It is a policy issue and thus a matter for the two Secretaries of State themselves to address and resolve without further delay.

The WHO has classified ME as a neurological disorder since 1969 and ME cannot be taxonomically considered by the DWP or any other Department to be a somatoform disorder; that the DWP persists in doing so is all the more disturbing when, in another Department of State, the entire NHS is mandated to regard ME as a neurological disorder.

The second issue

Given that the NHS has been mandated since 1995 to implement the ICD-10 classifications, and given that “mandatory” means “obligatory, compulsory” and that a mandate is “an official or authoritative instruction or command”, not only the DWP but also the NHS has patently failed to comply with the 1995 mandate to implement ICD-10 classifications.

Influenced by the Wessely School (who act as advisors to other Government departments and to NICE as well as to the DWP), not only the Wessely School themselves but also many NHS neurologists are in breach of the 1995 mandate that pertains throughout the NHS: 84% of neurologists questioned stated that they do not believe ME exists as a neurological condition (J Psychsom Med 9th April 2010), despite the reported evidence of markers of severe ganglionitis having been found in the central nervous system in several post mortem samples.

In one particular case, that of 32 year-old Sophia Mirza who died in November 2005 (whose death certificate recorded that she died of [ME]CFS), examination of her spinal cord showed inflammatory changes affecting the dorsal root ganglia, which are the gateways for all sensations going to the brain through the spinal cord. These inflammatory changes affected 75% of Sophia’s spinal cord.

At the inquest held on 13th June 2006, one of the pathologists stated: “ME describes inflammation of the spinal cord and muscles. My work supports the inflammation theory because there was inflammation in the basal root ganglia”.

Dr O’Donovan (the neuropathologist who had examined the spinal cord) stated that ME “lies more in the realms of neurology than psychiatry, in my opinion”.

Given that NHS staff are mandated to use ICD-10 codes, I should be grateful if you would explain why such a medically unsustainable situation has been allowed by the DoH to remain unchallenged for the last 16 years, since there is a legal obligation for the DoH to provide accurate ICD data to the WHO.

Recently, 26 expert authors (from 13 countries) produced the International Consensus Criteria for ME (Carruthers B et al; J Int Med 20th July 2011) and they strongly advocate that ME be removed from the NICE CG53 definition of “CFS/ME”.

This should become a priority since, despite the fact that in ICD-10 the WHO currently indexes “CFS” only to ME at G93.3, the Wessely School psychiatrists and their adherents who work for the insurance industry have hijacked the term “CFS” to mean a syndrome of “chronic fatigue” (which is classified in ICD-10 at F48.0 as a mental disorder but which the Wessely School erroneously insist is synonymous with ME).

It is essential that in relation to internationally defined ME, UK Departments of State begin implementing evidence-based policy instead of creating expedient policy-based evidence (which the Wessely School has done successfully for almost 25 years) and separate ME from “CFS/ME”. This is now very important, especially as Professor Peter White confirmed in writing to the Editor-in-Chief of The Lancet (a copy of which was sent to me) that: “The PACE trial paper refers to chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) which is operationally defined; it does not purport to be studying CFS/ME”. That statement is mystifying, since the PACE Trial documentation consistently refers to “CFS/ME”. Professor White’s statement also raises the question as to why he received £5 million from the MRC (co-funded by the DoH, the DWP and the Scottish Chief Scientist’s Office) to study chronic tiredness that is prevalent in many primary psychiatric disorders, yet he asserts that the results of his PACE Trial are generalisable to those with a serious neurological disorder that he now claims he was not studying after all.

These issues are of utmost importance not only to 250,000 people in the UK and their despairing families who are struggling to cope with a devastating neurological disorder, but also to the clinicians who see for themselves that people with classic ME are physically, not mentally, ill but who are thwarted in their attempt to investigate and support them by the overarching influence of the Wessely School.

I therefore once again call upon both Secretaries of State to provide informed and firm leadership by re-circulating directions that the 1995 mandate to comply with the ICD-10 classifications must legally be complied with by clinical and clerical staff in both Departments of State and that any individuals who refuse to comply are held personally and publicly accountable for any failure to observe that mandate.

It is obviously imperative that different Departments of State have a unified position regarding the nature of a serious disease such as ME and it is equally important that the legal requirements of the WHO be observed by the UK, which currently is not the case as far as ME is concerned. I should therefore be grateful if you would clarify what action is being taken by your own Department about these important issues.

Yours sincerely,

Malcolm Hooper

Simonscat

August 31st, 2011 9:57am Report this comment

By way of response I quote the following letter from Professor Malcolm Hooper to the Observer. It is of some relevance here I feel.

Quote
From Malcolm Hooper Ph.D.,B.Pharm.,C.Chem.,MRIC Emeritus Professor of Medicinal Chemistry University of Sunderland, SUNDERLAND SR2 3SD

Chief Scientific Adviser to the Gulf Veterans' Association President: the National Gulf War Veterans and Families Association, NGVFA, (2002)

25 August 2011

Dear Sir,

No right-minded person condones any campaign of vilification against psychiatrists but equally, no right-minded person can condone what psychiatrists like Wessely have done to the UK ME community over the last 25 years.

It is indefensible to liken people with ME to the Animal Liberation Front; this is an attack on the whole ME community, not only the few people who have behaved irrationally.

ME has been in the medical literature for the last 70 years and classified by the WHO as a neurological disorder since 1969.

The recent International Consensus Criteria for ME produced by 26 world experts from 13 countries shows ME to be a complex, chronic illness of which post-exertional malaise (inability to recover after exercise) is the cardinal feature. This makes exercise dangerous and sometimes fatal. There are multiple symptoms and multiple clinical signs showing dysfunction and dysregulation of all the major organs and systems of the body.

No NHS clinician has the autonomy to regard ME as a somatoform disorder. The Department of Health has confirmed in writing that: “ICD-10 is an NHS Information Standard…..There is a legal obligation for Department of Health to provide ICD data to the WHO for international comparison. The NHS was mandated to implement ICD-10 on 1 April 1995, at which time there was a formal consultation…. Implementation…applies to NHS organisations and their system suppliers, such as acute and foundation trusts, primary care trusts, and the NHS Information Centre”. The Wessely School psychiatrists, many GPs and NHS neurologists are in breach of this mandate.

For Wessely School psychiatrists to continually ignore the scientific evidence is wilful ignorance but to advise the DWP decision-makers and train ATOS examiners that ME is a mental disorder is deceitful and abusive; to section patients with ME and remove them from their distraught families is abusive; to make sick people worse by inappropriate interventions is abusive; to deny them financial support necessary to survive is abusive; to mock them and to misinform others about their serious disorder is abusive; to insist that they suffer from wrong thinking and a fear of activity when they suffer from a very serious medical disorder with reproducible multiple systemic abnormalities is abusive.

These psychiatrists, who have direct and lucrative links with the Insurance industry, have been reported to Parliament. The industry stands to lose £ millions if it has to pay out for a severe life-long physical illness whereas psychiatric (functional, somatoform) conditions are usually excluded and lower benefits paid by the DWP.

The true ME story has yet to be told.
unquote

John Scincere

August 31st, 2011 9:59am Report this comment

We can't separate the mind and body???

How many Hepatitis C patients are cured by CBT - no wait the treatment is Ribavirin and Interferon.

How many HIV patients are cured by CBT - no wait it is antiretrovirals

How many malaria patients are treated with CBT - no wait, it is antimalarials.

All the above three illness have serious psychiatric symptoms associated with them, far more severe that the mild increases of anxiety and depression seen in ME - which incidentally are completely normal for a chronic illness.

Yet no one in their right mind would try and claim that the mind and body are one, and we should treat them psychologically.

In the hands of Simon Wessely psychological medicine, which has a real value in society, is being completely twisted. His views are dangerous and should, and indeed have been discredited my so many other doctors. It is sad that every now and then crazy extremist psychiatrists come along and try and force their idiotic views on others, often by using the media. Walter Freedman was one such person - he toured the USA in his lobotomobile cutting up patients brains. Never once did he show any remorese. Wessely, Freedman, Crawley, Sharpe, White... sadly these psychiatrists must be relegated to the history of abusive medicine.

Harry W

August 31st, 2011 10:02am Report this comment

Make up your own mind - this is what he really thinks.

In 1990 Wessely asserted that ME exists “only because well-meaning doctors have not learnt to deal effectively with suggestible patients”.

That same year he wrote in a medical textbook: “The description given by a leading gastroenterologist at the Mayo Clinic remains accurate: ‘The average doctor will see they are neurotic and he will often be disgusted with them’ ”.

In 1991, he cited medical comments made between 1880 and 1908 on patients with neurasthenia, with the clear implication that such descriptions apply equally well to today’s ME patients: “always ailing, seldom ill; a useless, noxious element of society; purely mental cases; laziness, weakness of mind and supersensitiveness characterises them all; the terror of the busy physician”.

In 1992 the Wessely School directed that in patients with ME, the first duty of the doctor is to avoid legitimisation of symptoms; that same year, Wessely went on record about his intention to “eradicate” ME.

In 1994 ME was described by Wessely as merely “a belief” and a “myth” (“I will argue that ME is simply a belief, the belief that one has an illness called ME……I will argue that this line here (pointing to a slide) represents…the line between real and unreal illness”) and he openly named and mocked a seriously ill ME patient in a lecture; that person is now dead.

In 1996, under the guise of a Report from the Joint Royal Colleges of Physicians, Psychiatrists and General Practitioners, the Wessely School recommended that no investigations should be performed to confirm the diagnosis. (This advice to doctors was re-stated in the 2007 NICE Clinical Guideline on “CFS/ME” in which the Wessely School were instrumental. This means that investigations such as a comprehensive immune profile cannot be ordered in the UK -- even though one specific immune test always corresponds to disease severity in ME patients -- nor can patients be sent for fMRI scans that show clear evidence of hypoperfusion in the brain, nor can doctors request SPECT scans that show reduced blood flow through the brain stem in ME patients in a particular pattern that to date has not been found in any other disease process).

In 1997 Professor Michael Sharpe referred to ME as a “pseudo-disease diagnosis”.

In 1999 Sharpe said about ME patients: “Those who cannot be fitted into a scheme of objective bodily illness yet refuse to be placed into and accept the stigma of mental illness remain the undeserving sick of our society and our health service”.

Between February and April 2002 Wessely was involved with a poll of “non-diseases” carried out amongst doctors by the British Medical Journal: along with big ears and freckles, the poll found ME to be a non-disease that is best left medically untreated. As a result, patients with ME were struck off their GP’s list, one extremely sick person being told scathingly “This practice does not treat non-existent diseases”.

Gerwyn

August 31st, 2011 10:10am Report this comment

at Jeremy

Several writers have criticized both Freud's clinical efforts and his accounts of them.[32] Hans Eysenck writes that Freud consistently mis-diagnosed his patients and fraudulently misrepresented case histories.[12] Frederick Crews writes that "...even applying his own indulgent criteria, with no allowance for placebo factors and no systematic followup to check for relapses, Freud was unable to document a single unambiguously efficacious treatment".[33] Mikkel Borch-Jacobsen writes that historians of psychoanalysis have shown "that things did not happen in the way Freud and his authorised biographers told us"; he cites Han Israëls's view that "Freud...was so confident in his first theories that he publicly boasted of therapeutic successes that he had not yet obtained." Freud, in that interpretation, was forced to provide explanations for his abandonment of those theories that concealed his real reason, which was that the therapeutic benefits he expected did not materialise; he knew that his patients were not cured, but "did not hesitate to build grand theories on these non-existent foundations."[34]

Gerwyn

August 31st, 2011 10:13am Report this comment

at jeremy

After the "Cocaine Episode"[80] Freud ceased to publicly recommend use of the drug, but continued to take it himself occasionally for depression, migraine and nasal inflammation during the early 1890s, before giving it up in 1896.[81] In this period he came under the influence of his friend and confidant Fliess, who recommended cocaine for the treatment of the so-called "nasal reflex neurosis". Fliess, who operated on the noses of several of his own patients, also performed operations on Freud and on one of Freud's patients whom he believed to be suffering from the disorder, Emma Eckstein. However, the surgery proved disastrous.[82]

Some critics[who?] have suggested that much of Freud's early psychoanalytical theory was a by-product of his cocaine use.[83]
[edit] The Unconscious

lborgia

August 31st, 2011 11:16am Report this comment

Muddying of the psychiatric with the physical is not a new thing. But history seldom seems to swing the pendulum in favour of the psychiatric paradigm when all is said and done and aetiologies are uncovered. Problems arise when the psychiatric profession want to purposefully decline any physical investigation to ensure their own theories may win the day. This is what we see with the Wessely School. One of Simon's best mukkers, Michael Sharpe, said in 1994: "WE dropped all physical signs from our inclusion criteria". He later said in 2000: " Special investigations such as brain scans do not help the diagnosis of this condition" (in reference to CFS/ME) . Garrulous as ever he later said in 2000: "Psychological factors are important in CFS. Prognostic factors include family factors and social factors." (By the way, and for the record: I have ensured I have NOT missed out a single 'not' in my transcription of these quotes!).

Even when bio markers of the disease are made public, and possible retroviral association (being one) is presented (which despite Wessley School suggestion has not been debunked) Wessely is incapable of relinquishing his own view of psychological trauma being the basis for this neuro-immune disease as an article in New Scientist in October 2009 Observes: Ewen Callaway noted Professor Wessely’s views apropos the discovery of XMRV in CFS patients: “Wessely points out that XMRV fails to account for the wide variety of other factors associated with the CFS, including childhood trauma…’Any model that is going to be satisfactory has to explain everything, not just little bits’ he says”.

Is there not a sense of déjà vu in reading such opinion when we also consider this excerpt taken from Randy Shilts' 'And the Band Played On' which chronicles the people and power plays behind the AIDS epidemic of the late 1970's and early 1980's : "A gay psychologist also wrote a series of articles on the "psychoincubation" of AIDS, maintaining that AIDS victims all had suffered an "emotional emergency" as children that made them feel abandoned. The abandonment now was being played out with AIDS, he said, meaning that a change in psychological posture toward the world could be the best prevention against the disease".

Who now would concur with that ridiculous statement, and why do otherwise (presumably?) intelligent journalists , editors, scientists et al fall for the equally ludicrous and, in the face of all the biomedical evidence to the contrary, entirely false paradigm which Wessley and his cabal have decided to cobble together? Hindsight does not view the AIDS epidemic debacle with much grace. How much worse will it be for ME in times to come when history teases apart the threads of this overly embroidered tapestry? Where will Wessely and those who were cowed by his rhetoric stand in the glare of that inspection?

EyeSee

August 31st, 2011 11:19am Report this comment

I remember seeing a girl in her early teens on the local news, with ME. She was a little plump, extremely bright eyed, with gleaming washed hair and immaculately painted nails. Her doting mother, who said she had to do everything for her child, due to this terrible illness was a paragon of parental care. I just found myself wondering if the 'doing everything for her' came first or not.

anne allan

August 31st, 2011 11:38am Report this comment

There does appear to be anecdotal evidence that ME follows a viral infection; it has only recently been accepted that Type 1 diabetes can also be triggered by infections.
I had 'glandular fever' as an adult, rather than as a teenager. For a couple of years afterwards I had days where I woke and knew I had to rearrange my schedule as I would not have the energy for all but the most essential of tasks. Perhaps ME is a more persistent and deep seated version of that problem.
On the plus side, I didn't have a cold for several years - to the degree where I began to feel a bit of a freak.

Augustus

August 31st, 2011 12:58pm Report this comment

Actually, there are thousands of research articles showing the very real biological problems that ME/CFS patient’s experience such as low NK cell count and function, MRI and SPEC scan changes, and repeated chronic infections, to mention just a few. Only the most stubborn and misinformed individuals refuse to believe that this disease is real and serious. The process of placing poorly understood illnesses into a psychological category is very similar to what happened in the early days of MS and epilepsy before the advent of technologies which proved the illnesses were “real.” Unfortunately, many in the scientific and medical fields have not learned from their past mistakes.

purplefinn

August 31st, 2011 1:38pm Report this comment

"The evidence is that, like most illnesses, CFS is a mixture of the physical and the psychological." After 30 years with CFS, I concur with this statement from the article. The comment by Esther Siebert resonates with my condition as well. I do well with moderate exercise, but "pushing" myself to do more in any area of my life eventually results in relapse. A gentle approach works best for me. I have not tried any medications other than vitamins.

I understand people's resentment of being told "it's all in your head." It's not. But threats of any nature are not acceptable and not helpful.

Our journey toward a healthier life is often frustrating. I pick and choose among the solutions offered. I find that adopting good health practices in all areas of my life is beneficial. For those who work part or full time attending to one's health is essential, but extremely difficult. I had to take two early retirements, because I could just not keep up. The extreme anger at any suggestion that CFS is a personal failing may be due to the loss of livelihood as well.

ern rob

August 31st, 2011 2:33pm Report this comment

As previously mentioned, it's easier to understand Professor Wessely's article if one reads at least the abstract to the ICC, then go back to re-read the Professor's article.

Journal of Internal Medicince 22 August 2011

Myalgic encephalomyelitis: International Consensus Criteria

The label ‘chronic fatigue syndrome’ (CFS) has persisted for many years because of the lack of knowledge of the aetiological agents and the disease process.

In view of more recent research and clinical experience that strongly point to widespread inflammation and multisystemic neuropathology, it is more appropriate and correct to use the term ‘myalgic encephalomyelitis’ (ME) because it indicates an underlying pathophysiology.

It is also consistent with the neurological classification of ME in the World Health Organization’s International Classification of Diseases (ICD G93.3).

Consequently, an International Consensus Panel consisting of clinicians, researchers, teaching faculty and an independent patient advocate was formed with the purpose of developing criteria based on current knowledge.

Thirteen countries and a wide range of specialties were represented.

Collectively, members have approximately 400 years of both clinical and teaching experience, authored hundreds of peer-reviewed publications, diagnosed or treated approximately 50000 patients with ME, and several members coauthored previous criteria.

The expertise and experience of the panel members as well as PubMed and other medical sources were utilized in a progression of suggestions/drafts/reviews/revisions.

The authors, free of any sponsoring organization, achieved 100% consensus through a Delphi-type process.

The scope of this paper is limited to criteria of ME and their application.

Accordingly, the criteria reflect the complex symptomatology.

Operational notes enhance clarity and specificity by providing guidance in the expression and interpretation of symptoms.

Clinical and research application guidelines promote optimal recognition of ME by primary physicians and other healthcare providers, improve the consistency of diagnoses in adult and paediatric patients internationally and facilitate clearer identification of patients for research studies.

Individuals with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis should be removed from the Reeves empirical criteria and the National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) criteria for chronic fatigue syndrome

ern rob

August 31st, 2011 2:44pm Report this comment

As previously mentioned, it's easier to understand Professor Wessely's article if one reads at least the abstract to the ICC, then go back to re-read the Professor's article.

Journal of Internal Medicince 22 August 2011

Myalgic encephalomyelitis: International Consensus Criteria

The label ‘chronic fatigue syndrome’ (CFS) has persisted for many years because of the lack of knowledge of the aetiological agents and the disease process.

In view of more recent research and clinical experience that strongly point to widespread inflammation and multisystemic neuropathology, it is more appropriate and correct to use the term ‘myalgic encephalomyelitis’ (ME) because it indicates an underlying pathophysiology.

It is also consistent with the neurological classification of ME in the World Health Organization’s International Classification of Diseases (ICD G93.3).

Consequently, an International Consensus Panel consisting of clinicians, researchers, teaching faculty and an independent patient advocate was formed with the purpose of developing criteria based on current knowledge.

Thirteen countries and a wide range of specialties were represented.

Collectively, members have approximately 400 years of both clinical and teaching experience, authored hundreds of peer-reviewed publications, diagnosed or treated approximately 50000 patients with ME, and several members coauthored previous criteria.

The expertise and experience of the panel members as well as PubMed and other medical sources were utilized in a progression of suggestions/drafts/reviews/revisions.

The authors, free of any sponsoring organization, achieved 100% consensus through a Delphi-type process.

The scope of this paper is limited to criteria of ME and their application.

Accordingly, the criteria reflect the complex symptomatology.

Operational notes enhance clarity and specificity by providing guidance in the expression and interpretation of symptoms.

Clinical and research application guidelines promote optimal recognition of ME by primary physicians and other healthcare providers, improve the consistency of diagnoses in adult and paediatric patients internationally and facilitate clearer identification of patients for research studies.

Individuals with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis should be removed from the Reeves empirical criteria and the National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) criteria for chronic fatigue syndrome

London Calling

August 31st, 2011 3:52pm Report this comment

Mind The Gap?...

lborgia

August 31st, 2011 4:42pm Report this comment

This is a must view. This is the sort of treatment I want. 'Mind the gap' between this and the fake Psyche Social paradigm...it's cavernous!

http://www.nevadanewsmakers.com/video/default.asp?showID=1341

Treatment with no CBT/ GET or toxic psyche meds in sight! How refreshing!

Frank P

August 31st, 2011 4:50pm Report this comment

I remember when I was young I suffered for awhile from CGMAOOB (Can’t Get My Arse out of Bed) Syndrome. A miracle cure was brought about when my parents refused to support me any longer and insisted that I get paid work. After that any relapses were dealt with by employers who would wave a sack in my direction if tardy attendance ensued. In those days drawing the dole was a disgrace and doctors had not yet been cowed into giving sicky-certificates on demand by the underclass. As for self-certification? Ha!

In later years while working in occupations that required dealing with the aftermath of “Care in the Community” policies, during interface with the psychiatrists manning the Units trying to cope with the upshot. I found that 90% of them were madder’n their patients and in some ways more dangerous. Their use of haloperidol as a chemical cosh in lieu of the padded cell was an ingenious cop-out and probably banned by the Geneva Convention.

Have reached the fag end of any eventful life, my advice to young people: hide any quirky traits of character that might get you sectioned if noticed by the authorities and try not to live too long; the NHS can’t cope with either eventuality.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

August 31st, 2011 5:49pm Report this comment

Are most the staff at most NHS hospitals suffering from ME, or are the doctors and surgeons criminally insane and the nurses dozy cows? A young girl of 14 has been left with paralysis below the waist and unable to use her legs because the idiots in charge at a so-called prestigious childrens hospital, gave her pain relief with an epidural, and forgot to reove it! Now, we hear the usual whinging of "Lessons have been learned", but bugger it, who cares about these idiots learning on the job what they should have learned at medical and nursing school. Worse, all this several years ago, and in the usual British way, discussion of monetary compensation is a subject that is very delicate and hardly dealt with. In America, this young girl would receive enough mpney for the life long carers she will need for life, plus all the other expenses of an invalid life. Here, lessons being learned and promises that others wont suffer by this being repeated are proclaimed by the hospital. The hospital may be sorry, but at the end of the day, how is that going to help the victim?

Jim

August 31st, 2011 6:06pm Report this comment

Why anyone gives simon any respect is ludicrous. He is no scientist in the least. A simple cursory look at published literature on all the physical findings debunks his theories. We are not a fringe who disagrre with him. He is the minority of scietists and is on the fringe.

Frank P

August 31st, 2011 7:07pm Report this comment

Anne

When a hospital is 'sorry' it costs you and I a lot of money; you'll note the inevitable compensation is not extracted from the overblown salaries of Chief Executives of Hospital Trusts; few even lose their jobs; the taxpayer foots the bill and on to the next 'lesson to be learned'. Piss poor recruitment criteria, sloppy procedures and even worse supervision, together with a reliance on Government funding to pay claims should be laid at the door of the boss of the outfit. It rarely is. It seems the whole shebang is now a perpetual academy for learning lessons which are never learned. Even the few that are sacked usually get a golden handshake to help them bear the guilt of their incompetence.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

August 31st, 2011 8:23pm Report this comment

Frank P
August 31st, 2011 7:07pm
Frank, unfortunately you are correct. It's really heartbreaking, yet the corruption continues.

Anon

August 31st, 2011 8:28pm Report this comment

Jim: if you do the most cursory research, you will see that Simon Wessely himself has done a huge amount of biological research into CFS (including XMRV).

Having recovered from severe CFS/ME (with neurological/immune symptoms) triggered by a viral infection, I'm reasonably certain that stress was the main factor, and there is pretty convincing scientific evidence that this is the case.

If the psychiatry haters did the tiniest bit of research they might see that stress influences the immune system, hormones, brain function as well as a virtually every system in the body. If you think that psychiatric illnesses like depression have no biological reality then you have a seriously messed up view of how the brain works! Do some research and you will find that people with depression also have abnormal SPECT/fMRI scans.

Of course you can't just lump mind and body together...but with CFS the main cause of the illness does seem to be psychiatric, as compared to illnesses such as HIV or cancer which are organic but can have psychiatric morbidity (you'll find that CBT is actually effective in helping cancer/HIV sufferers who have psychiatric symptoms).

People should note that the Wessely haters are actually a small minority of CFS patients. They just tend to all post comments on any CFS article they see. You'll see the same faces like Angela Kennedy pop up again and again (incidentally, Angela has been banned from wikipedia and been the subject of a police harrassment investigation due to her nasty tactics).

Bob

August 31st, 2011 10:03pm Report this comment

@Anon

Simon Wessely has not conducted research into human gammaretroviruses. He has provided fatigue (not ME) patients for McClures studies. The studies where she used a completely different cohort to Lombardi et al. Fatigue not ME. Where she failed to diagnostically validate her assays and did not replicate proven methodology. In fact she changed every variable from the original paper. There is not way to tell if anyone had the virus in those papers, so it was a waste of time and money to have undertaken them.

Simone Wessely has also not conducted any scientific research as that would require the use of objective measures, not subjective report questionnaires. He has also not put his beliefs to the test, but conducted subjective research to support his beliefs, which were shown to be incorrect decades ago.

Your anecdotal tale although interesting does not tell anyone whether you had ME, especially if the criteria used to diagnose you was not an ME criteria, which is a diagnosis of inclusion. The recorded recovery rates are also very low, around 5%. There is also no scientific evidence that stress can cause any disease, the same goes for ME. What you may have had is a disease that does respond to stress. Many do, like MS and HIV/AIDS. What is interesting with human gammaretroviruses is that they are stress responsive. They will reactive due to stresses placed on the body, be it a virus, a vaccine, a car crash, or such like.

Now psychiatry is not a science, as I said before this is because it does not rely on objective measures. There is not one psychiatric diagnosis that has been objectively confirmed, not one test that can be used to diagnose and not one objectively recorded improvement. All patients with what is at this time called a metal health disorder will one day have the cause and biological process uncovered, but it won't be a psychiatrist that achieves this.

The problem with ME is that the cause is not going to be found in the brain as it is a multi system disease. The cause has to be able to affect all those processes. The retroviral hypothesis can explain this.

You mention the brain and mind, but there is only ever the brain. There is only chemicals and biology. Thoughts cannot make a person sick, because thoughts are created by biology of the brain.

CBT in fatigue (again not ME) has been applied under the assumption that the person is not actually sick but imagining their symptoms, GET is used under the assumption that a person is de-conditioned. Neither of these fit the known biological abnormalities found in ME and have never been shown to be effective. They are also not used in HIV/AIDS or any other physical disease. In those, CBT is actually counselling by another name, the medics administering that treatment don't claim the patient is not sick, unlike the Wessely School. They also don't prescribe GET to people who are not de-conditioned and have mitochondria dysfunction, as is found in ME patients.

What you think you are talking about is secondary depression and anxiety. I have never seen anyone deny the existence of them. They in fact occur at a similar rate to other severe diseases. But treating them will not affect the underlying disease, which is ME, as that is a proven physical disease.

Most patients want rid of the Wessely School as they have clearly hindered research, taken funding from ME for their pet subjective studies of fatigue and driven away the scientists who were making advances in the disease. It is time to push them aside. They are not wanted.

rich

August 31st, 2011 10:07pm Report this comment

Anon:: if you do the most cursory research, you will see that Simon Wessely has done a some biological research into CFS, claims nowadays to accept physical pathology but continues to advocate only CBT/GER based on a theory that fatigue state illness derives from false belief and avoidant beahaviour. You will also find the outcomes are not impressive (particularly for GET which ahs been shown to be harmful) and that the theory remainds unproven.

I have not recovered after 26 years with slow onset I believe stress may have played a role in causation and am certain that it has exacerbated my symptoms. I also have had several infectiosn one of which may ahve been causal. we don't know. You are reasonably certain that stress was the main factor for you. I cannot be so. It may well have been a primary untreated infection followed by secondaries AND not to forget the stress of being ill for year. Where is the "pretty convincing scientific evidence" that stress is the main problem for the whole patient population rather than an element - greatar or lesserr- in some or even many of us. Not forgetting that stress caused by mechanisms of biological illness is a real as psychological stress. Stress is not all of one kind.

Stress influences the immune system, hormones, brain function as well as a virtually every system in the body as you say all the more so in the presence of physical infection. ne does not exclude the other and to say what is more important in any given patient is not amatter for assertion but for investigation. SW has never been keen enough on clinical investigation in the opinion of many informed experts.
Of courseIf psychiatric illnesses like depression have biological reality and people with depression also have abnormal SPECT/fMRI scans, but that does not in itself mean that fatigue states are psychiatric, nor do you say what you mean by psychiatric - are you talking symptoms, underlying neurology, neurologically based psychiatric symptoms or psychiatrically induced nerological chages. It works bothe ways, so why choose the analogy of depression to draw CFS into the psychiatric grouop rather than infections such as syphilis and Lymes which untreated will cause psychiatric symptoms and altered SPECT etc, but are clearly infective in ultimate origin. Your argumet is arbritrary.

At the end of the day you ahve an assertion "the illness does seem to be psychiatric, as compared to illnesses such as HIV or cancer which are organic but can have psychiatric morbidity".

People should note that the Wessely haters are actually a small minority of CFS patients. They just tend to all post comments on any CFS article they see. You'll see the same faces like Angela Kennedy pop up again and again (incidentally, Angela has been banned from wikipedia and been the subject of a police harrassment investigation due to her nasty tactics.

SW frustrates and irritates me but I do n ot hate him. I just disagree and find his and your arguments confused and basically more assertion than proven fact.

Angela Kennedy

August 31st, 2011 10:19pm Report this comment

@ anon, august 31st, 8.28 pm

Well - your allegation that I have been "banned from wikipedia and been the subject of a police harrassment investigation due to her nasty tactics" is - hmm- interesting. I will need to correct you on these odd allegations.

1. I was banned from wikipedia for 'making legal threats'. Wikipedia often get irate victims demanding they remove libellous comments (I indeed was one of those victims). Their uniform response is to ban that person for 'legal threats'.

2. I am a social sciences researcher and lecturer, and the parent of a person diagnosed with ME/CFS. In 2007 I was once falsely accused of 'personally harassing' Professor Wessely by a Wikipedia administrator, claiming Professor Wessely had told him this himself. I publicly oppose and critique psychogenic explanations for ME/CFS, on both a political and academic level. I have NEVER harassed Professor Wessely or contacted him, though he once wrote an unsolicited email to me, after a critical comment I made about flaws in psychogenic explanations was quoted in a parliamentary debate in 2004. When I wrote to Professor Wessely's employers, asking that he clarify he had no part in the false claims made on Wikipedia in 2007, they sadly refused to provide that clarification. Of crucial significance to this latest campaign against ME sufferers and their supporters: a few weeks ago in the British Medical Journal, I found that people who wrote to employers were actually being falsely juxtaposed with alleged 'death threat' makers, as harassers!

3. I may well have been investigated for 'harassment' by the police for all I know. But I have never been arrested, never come to the attention of the Crown Prosecution Service, never been told of any 'harassment' I might have been investigated for. Indeed, I did once contact the police myself to help them with their enquiries about someone else who was claiming I was harassing them - and to demonstrate my innocence, an innocence the police accepted fully. Indeed, this person claiming I was harassing them was falsely constructing my legitimate, non-criminal public objections to their actions as criminal: exactly that which is being done to other innocent advocates in this latest campaign.

All of which goes to show how creepy this whole situation is. People devastated by illness, psychogenically dismissed, then find themselves and their supporters deliberately but falsely constructed as criminal and deviant, especially when they dare express their objections. THIS should be investigated by the press.

Honora Murphy

August 31st, 2011 11:25pm Report this comment

@Anon

I am going to assume you are the same anon who posted earlier that you had recovered. I, too, have recovered... many times. It is, for many, a remitting and relapsing illness like MS. In fact, it is so like MS that I have been misdiaguessed in the past with MS and suspect that the increase in atypical MS is actually an increase in ME.

You wrote: "Having recovered from severe CFS/ME (with neurological/immune symptoms) triggered by a viral infection, I'm reasonably certain that stress was the main factor, and there is pretty convincing scientific evidence that this is the case."

I can only assume, since you are talking about yourself, that you have convincing scientific evidence that it was stress and not the viral infection you report that made you ill. I would be very interested in what that was.

"If the psychiatry haters did the tiniest bit of research they might see that stress influences the immune system, hormones, brain function as well as a virtually every system in the body. If you think that psychiatric illnesses like depression have no biological reality then you have a seriously messed up view of how the brain works! Do some research and you will find that people with depression also have abnormal SPECT/fMRI scans."

I quite agree with you. I think we will see increasing evidence for a biological model for many illnesses which manifest symptoms of mood dysregulation and that they may well be treated more effectively in future by endocrinologists, gastroenterologists, etc. than they are now by psychiatrists.

"Of course you can't just lump mind and body together...but with CFS the main cause of the illness does seem to be psychiatric, as compared to illnesses such as HIV or cancer which are organic but can have psychiatric morbidity (you'll find that CBT is actually effective in helping cancer/HIV sufferers who have psychiatric symptoms)."

I agree that CBT, and more recently DBT, can be highly effective tools in managing most illnesses. One should not be reluctant to use them as part of comprehensive medical care. However, the cancer/HIV sufferers to which you refer might be a bit alarmed if CBT was all that was on offer and all other treatment and testing was systematically denied them.

As to what you say about the main cause of the illness being psychiatric, well, Anon, you offer only your opinion which even you contradict with your account of the onset being post-viral and the findings being neuro-immune. I am bewildered by your logic.

I hope you remain recovered; I thought I would. I used to tell people that I "had" ME but it was gone. Even when I was dragging through life at 75% of normal, I would say I was better. I even gave psychiatry a crack at it and tried SSRIs thinking, perhaps, I had some strange kind of depression that left my mood intact but completely depleted me of energy. Not only was it unhelpful, I suffered a terrible reaction to the medication and a catastrophic relapse. But, I would have done anything, thought anything, to get better because nobody wants to go through the pain and humiliation of having this. Nobody.

Angela Kennedy

August 31st, 2011 11:45pm Report this comment

Some other of the anon's points I should like to address:

First is their strawmanning of 'depression'. This is a complex, uncertain condition, with contesting views as to its cause, or even its manifestation, or even its reliability as a diagnosis. Reactive depression is not usually deemed 'organic', for example, but related to traumatic life events. Depression is not ME/CFS, so using it to try and show ME/CFS as a psychiatric illness in the way this anon has done makes no sense. Nor does the special pleading this anon has committed.

They have also offered NO evidence to support their assertion that ME/CFS has a psychiatric cause as opposed to the organicity of AIDS or cancer. Indeed, they've just ignored the evidence available of organicity of ME/CFS, of which there is copious amounts. They claim Professor Wessely "has done done a huge amount of biological research into CFS (including XMRV)" but what they neglect to mention is that most of this is of the 'debunking' type (certainly the XMRV study), and crucially, that he and others EXCLUDE any patient with organic dysfunction from their research (an issue I have raised publicly with Professor Wessely before, as this was certainly done with the XMRV study). The problem is that ME/CFS is a neurological disease according to the WHO, and these patients, with neurological signs and symptoms, are excluded from that research.

Other readers, please don't take my comments at face value here - my response to the XMRV study about this particular issue is at the PlosOne site.

The 'stress' claims - the ubiquity of generalised adaptive response to 'stress'; the ubiquity of 'stress' experiences in humans and other animals; the difficulties in defining 'stressors' apart from each other - physical stress such as infections causes adaptive responses to stress, for example; and problems in recalling past 'stressors' in self-reports (as just a few confounders): makes 'stress' explanations for certain (and often ever increasing amounts of) illnesses often unsafe. This is accepted within the research field.

Regarding SPECT/fMRI scans- people with other neurological disorders also have abnormal results. That there might be some 'abnormal' scans in depression does not 'prove' other illnesses are psychogenic in origin, or even the aetiology of depression.

One more thing - the 'CBT' offered to AIDS or Cancer patients is not the type that tells them they are ill because of aberrant illness beliefs, or that correcting their thoughts will lead to recovery - the rationale behind the CBT offered, for example, in the PACE trial. A look at the PACE trial literature will support my assertion here.

Any lay readers genuinely interested in this subject - I hope by now it is clear this is a complex and sometimes unpleasant issue, and that the original Spectator article did not do justice to the whole issue, or the concerns of the ME/CFS community and their supporters.

polly

August 31st, 2011 11:48pm Report this comment

Unfortunatley Anon there are many patients for which CBT is less than useless . Many of us have immune abnormalities , abnormal blood results , some even have abnormalities on MRI scans which are still dismissed as the neurologists are not quite sure what they are .We are offered CBT or GET and when it does not work we are told we havent really tried . Nothing like blaming the patient is there . Well im sorry but no amout of CBT is going to alter my abnormal blood results . I knew nothing of this illness when I became ill after being bitten by a severely disabled child at work and becoming ill within days . It took me 3 years on the NHS merry go round before I got a diagnosis . I went to the ME/CFS clinic with no knowledge of the illness or treatment I was just relieved to get a diagnosis . I soon realised something was very wrong , I asked too many questions which the ME/CFS clinic did not like . Im a logical thinker with an inquisite mind and actually studied psychology myself many moons ago , it was plainly obvious that the clinic did not like this . They decided that perhaps I had been misdiagnosed , I therefore presumed wrongly that I would be physically examined and all my bloods rechecked how wrong was I . That is when I was instructed that they thought I had not really tried with the CBT and that unless I accepted I had got this illness I would never get better . Needless to say we parted company and I asked my GP to repeat my bloods , hey presto abnormal yet again . They have continued ever since to show various abnormalities but nobody can seem to work out exactly what is going on , yet join the dots and it doesn't take a genius to work out that there is something not right with my immune system. After parting company with the ME/CFS clinic I decided to do some research to see exactly what on earth was going on with this illness and why I wasnt being treated correctly . All of a sudden it all made sense .Whilst I do not condone threats against doctors I also do not condone the denial of adequate treatment and testing which is what is happening at the moment in this country for people with ME. Enough research money has been spent on psychological research and the best they have come up with in 20 odd years is CBT. Time for biomedical research for those whom CBT is of no use whatsoever . CBT helps a small percentage of sufferers , what about the majority that it doesn't help ? Those people remain very ill , many with their health deteriorating further . How can this country deny those people treatment ? It is totally immoral!

rich

August 31st, 2011 11:52pm Report this comment

Bob
I am impressed by your post, but find the following needs explanation:
"You mention the brain and mind, but there is only ever the brain. There is only chemicals and biology. Thoughts cannot make a person sick, because thoughts are created by biology of the brain".

Is not the biology of the brain is influenced by environment, including the internal environment of thoughts? The brain is not like a thermometer which responds mechanically. It gives rise to consciousness which is not identical to brain.Software/hardware analogies are not without foundation.
To undermine W's theories by abolishing the mind as a useful concept in medicien seems uncalled for. There are plenty of us who believe in physical causes for fatigue stae illness who nevertheless believe in the mind as a useful category.

Center for M.E. Law & Policy

September 1st, 2011 6:52am Report this comment

Dear Spectator,

I am writing to voice my objection to the highly inaccurate and one-sided piece by known charlatan Simon Wessely on the 'abuse' of ME researchers.

Prof. Wessely has conducted a decades-long war on ME science and patients as documented in Prof. Malcolm Hooper's excellent publications including "Defiance of Science." meactionuk.org.uk

Prof. Hooper has issued a letter to the Observer for a very similar article spearheaded by Prof. Wessely. It is extremely informative, totally apropos to the instant piece and I completely endorse it. Please read at http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/Response-to-Observer-article.htm

I also fully endorse the excellent comments of Angela Kennedy, supra, a university lecturer and M.E. expert.

I ask that the Spectator issue a retraction of this piece. Failing that, please review Prof. Hooper's letter and issue retractions for all of the inaccurate and misrepresentative points made in the piece. In addition please publish an article about Prof. Wessely's war on M.E. science and persecution of M.E. patients.

I am personally pleading with the Spectator to investigate this matter and do what is right, retract podcast segment and recommend to the editors that the article be retracted. Lives are at stake.

Sincerely,
Justin Reilly, esq. for
the Center for M.E. Law & Policy

Eilidh Hewitt

September 1st, 2011 7:00am Report this comment

I think this is an extraordinary concerted attack on a defenceless patient population.
It must be both unprofessional and unethical for a group of doctors and psychiatrists to run a smear campaign against a patient population in the press. These patients have a neurological disease that has been defined in WHO for the last forty years, also recognised well before that time as well.

From a position of power (they have all the research funding and control over the clinics in England) this group led by Simon Wessely seem to be gloating over these unfortunate patients. And Max they are not detractors, they are patients.

It is well known that people overreact on the internet it doesn’t matter what sphere of interest you have it applies in all areas. On the internet you will encounter some people who misbehave, why are this group using this fact against people with ME? To suggest that people with ME are more dangerous than the front line in Iraq or Afghanistan is obviously outrageous, and totally untrue.

You have to question the motives for this outburst. Clearly this campaign of vilification is designed to portray ME patients in the worst possible light and will inevitably result in further isolation and prejudice against them. The detrimental effect this will have on the ME community cannot be lost on Simon and his followers. Apart from the beating down of a vulnerable section of society, there is the potential to affect funding for bio-medical research and the willingness of researchers to come into the field. Generally it will have a very detrimental effect on all aspects of the lives of ME patients.

This entire article also contains an implicit threat to the ME community, that Simon has the power to remove or damage the neurological listing of ME in WHO.
Are these the actions of a compassionate and caring set of individuals bound by and oath to do no harm?

Bob

September 1st, 2011 7:38am Report this comment

@rich

Abolishing the mind? The mind is the brain, it is not a undefinable concept. There is only the brain. I honestly don't know how people have imagined this into existence. Do we have the hand and the fist. They are the same thing. There is only ever biology. Thoughts are biological, they don't manifest 3 foot above a person like a ghost. They are the chemicals, neurone's, microglia, etc. The environment would be a virus or a heavy object, not the paranormal. Consciousness is also still only coming from the brain. This is where people leave science and move into philosophy.

Take astrology and astronomy. At one time they were also combined as they both involve the planets and stars, but one is make believe. Imagine where we would be today if this separation and discarding had not occurred.

rich

September 1st, 2011 10:45am Report this comment

Bob
Even if we can describe every thought, emotion, perception in terms of neurology, we can nevertheless describe them also in terms which have nothing to do with neurology. If we could reduce it all to neurological descriptions we would not have, as you say, imagined the mind into exostence.

wisden

September 1st, 2011 11:05am Report this comment

Eilidh-This entire article also contains an implicit threat to the ME community, that Simon has the power to remove or damage the neurological listing of ME in WHO.

Good point. Who elected Wessely? The WHO certainly didn't.

rich

September 1st, 2011 11:10am Report this comment

Some conflict between the minders and ersis based on confusion of definition with description.
We can describe a thought in terms of neurological activity, but that is not a definition. Similarly we can describe ita in quite other terms and capture another aspect of the reality we perceive about the given thought.
To describe in terms of the brain is not to define the thought as merely brain activity, nor is description of the thougt in terms other than those of neurolgical activity, to deny the reality of neurology. These can be complementary descriptive models rather than conflicting definitions of reality.
Whatever side of the debate about definitions of reality you come down on, you can still use the descriptive models in practice.
The origins of a schizophrenic patient's frightening visions might be addressed by talking about overactiviy of dopamine systems, but the visions themselves cannot. That is why there is neurology and psychiatry/psychology and that is why the "psyche" will remain with its Englsih equivalent of "mind" useful categories for description and practice.

simonsdog

September 1st, 2011 11:19am Report this comment

Rest of the world calling: "Mind the Crap!"

Irene Thorpe

September 1st, 2011 11:35am Report this comment

I envisage that the next round of attacks will be on the antibody testing. The nay sayers are a little slow.. Dr lombardi has moved on even from those, notice he that he says it is the XMRV+ that have this low interferon.If it isnt XMRV they are picking up is is sure the hell something and if its antibody's to something else and normals arn't producing the same antibodys then this is where the research money should be going. The Psychos are running scared. I am so glad Bloomburg is on the case. Notice although he didn't get the result we wanted for ME research nobody has 'death threat' him,and he didn't abandon us, he worked with Judy et al until he sorted it... Don't these people realise its their personally disorder that the problem

Irene Thorpe

September 1st, 2011 11:41am Report this comment

Vince Lombardi: "We are making progress in the biomarker field and we are doing some new work that could also extend that based on the original discovery we made doing the cytokine work. So one of the things that is one of my focuses that I am interested in is looking at the Interferons pathway so in the cytokine work that I did identified that contrary to popular belief the chronic fatigue people I was looking at actually had lower interferon than healthy people. It’s been published a few places where they have seen spikes of chronic fatigue people so it was assumed that chronic fatigue people had higher interferon. And when you look at it at maybe a certain period of time you might see that most people, even chronic fatigue people, they look like they have normal interferon and once in a while you will see a spike of interferon increase. Um, but that’s because most laboratory tests consider a value of interferon at a normal level and anything below it is normal, all the way down to zero. But by doing the work I did I was able to use a large enough group of patients, large enough group of controls that I was able to actually look at what is the lower level. And even though you would see some people have higher interferon from time to time the general trend for chronic fatigue people is actually lower than healthy people. Actually, that could have some broad, some broader, implications for the disease because the interferon pathway is part of the innate immune system and it is the first line of defense we have against viral infections."

Irene Thorpe

September 1st, 2011 11:44am Report this comment

full interview here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvRaLurWJ9c&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Laurence Swift

September 1st, 2011 12:50pm Report this comment

The disease ME may have been around hundreds of years but not visible above the background of other serious diseases.
 Using a carefully-honed battery of techniques, the Whittemore-Peterson Institute (WPI) found XMRV retrovirus in 98% of their ME patients. Those who have read the obligatory tome “Osler’s Web” will know the facts. Dr Paul Cheney, around 1985, took some of his ME patients’ MR scans to an MRI expert, who showed him a set of identical scans – from AIDS patients (videos on YouTube). The retroviral origin of AIDS was unknown then but found later. So we knew a retrovirus was involved in ME. In 1991 the Wistar researcher Elaine DeFreitas found a retrovirus in her ME patients, and showed electronmicrographs of the virus inside mitochondria where they disrupt the mitochondria's production of energy – hence the fatigue felt by patients. As all government institutions had turned their backs on the biomedical cause of M.E., it was left to the private sector to fill the deficit. The Whittemore family, with their daughter an M.E. patient, engaged retrovirology experts (Lombardi, Judy Mikovits) and established the WPI private research centre. Judy suspected a retrovirus was involved and set out to prove it to the high standards of the journal Science. 
Several ME patients have since started antiretroviral therapies and blog about their experiences – most are improving. The drugs, developed for treating AIDS patients, have proved safe enough to give routinely to healthy people to prevent AIDS from infected partners. However XMRV is not the same as HIV and it may be possible to develop specific more-effective drugs for XMRV. With perhaps seventeen million (and counting) people worldwide affected, this could be very profitable for drug companies.

Bob

September 1st, 2011 1:01pm Report this comment

@rich

You are missing the point. There is only the brain. Thoughts are created in the brain. I don't know where you think they happen, but wherever you do think this is, does not exist.

rose george

September 1st, 2011 1:35pm Report this comment

I applaud most of this. But I find that classing Alzheimer's as a "disorder" is dangerous & simply wrong. It is brain damage. Physical, with psychiatric symptoms. But physical damage. Surely that is no longer disputed. If it were called brain damage, I suspect it would have to be better funded, which is why it is not.

rich

September 1st, 2011 1:39pm Report this comment

Bob
You say now they happen in the brain. You said before they come from the brain. Which is it? You are talking metaphor in one of these phrases. Thoughts do not come or go anywhere except within the brain, by your own definition. Try talking about the brain in hyperrealist terms and you will not easily be able to say much you want to, such as "thougts come from the brain", "consciousness ((what's that in your model anyway?l arises in the brain"
The concept of the mind allows us to say much about the brain to describe processes rooted in the brain and does not therweby commit anyone to belief or disbelief in "the brain is all there is". It is aone way of describing waht the brain does. Mind is very useful tool to describe soem aspects of waht brain does.

Bob

September 1st, 2011 2:32pm Report this comment

@Rich

There is only the brain. That is science. You are discussing something else entirely.
Thought, consciousness all come from and happen in the brain. Don't move outside of science.

Bob

September 1st, 2011 3:07pm Report this comment

"the separation of the two categories is arbitrary, often influenced by beliefs rather than proven scientific observations. And the fact that the brain and mind are one makes the separation artificial anyway."
Joseph B. Martin, M.D., Ph.D. Professor of Neurobiology.

Anon

September 1st, 2011 3:38pm Report this comment

"As to what you say about the main cause of the illness being psychiatric, well, Anon, you offer only your opinion which even you contradict with your account of the onset being post-viral and the findings being neuro-immune. I am bewildered by your logic."

I didn't think we were writing in scientific journals here - it's just a comment board. No, my opinion is not just based on my own experience, but on the research that other scientists have done. There is pretty convincing evidence that stress is the main trigger for CFS, and that a dysfunctional HPA axis (stress system) is a main factor.

If you're confused by my logic, let me explain: I believe that stress was likely the most important factor causing my illness. The viral infection was likely just a trigger which in combination with the stress caused CFS. By 'primarily psychiatric' I mean caused by stress, i.e. stressful experiences results in changes to brain/hpa axis, etc. which causes illness. But the illness is primarily caused by the stress, not by the virus or anything else.

There is no doubt whatsoever that social stress alone can cause severe illness. You can look at studies on rats to see that that this is the case. It's not really in any doubt. Saying that stress alone cannot cause illness is akin to saying that the earth is flat.

Using occam's razor, if you can explain all the signs and symptoms of CFS by stress, why posit some unknown factor?

Even though people are saying they don't hate Wessely, you still see a lot of very misinformed comments, saying that he was out to 'debunk' XMRV (which is obviously a bunch of crap because their team even published a second study to respond to some of the criticisms). Also other teams have tested exactly the same frickin patients who WPI found XMRV positive and found them negative! Wessely has also looked into changes in hormones and the immune system, and has said that the immune system is almost certainly involved.

I think Angela is deliberately misleading us when she says that Wessely excludes people with neurogolical symptoms. That is not the case (and if you read Wessely's research you'll see that it is a bunch of crap). The CFS criterias only exclude people with a recognised neurological diagnosis (e.g. MS), but they do not exclude people with ME (as it is not a recognised neurological diagnosis).

Also, the PACE trial doesn't say that the illness is caused by illness beliefs. The rationale of CBT is that negative thought processes can make the illness worse (not cause it), and changing those bad habits can help - this is exactly the same as for depression, cancer, HIV, etc. Clearly there are a lot of weird illness beliefs about CFS as you can see from this and any other CFS forum - lots of patients firmly believe that their illness must be caused by a virus, and I think that is likely to prevent recovery. I suspect that I recovered relatively quickly because I didn't have any particular beliefs about my illness - I was willing to look at all possible causes with an open mind. I'm still not 100% certain that stress was the cause, but the research seems to show that it is the most likely cause.

Yes, Wessely does think that psychiatric factors are most important, but that is simply because that is what seems to be the case. He in not in the business of bullshitting patients by using crap science and telling them what they want to hear, like some researchers seem to do. He would prefer to look for the actual cause (even if many patients don't like it) because that is the best way to help patients.

Just as a parting thought: if you actually spoke to some patients who have recovered, you might find that there are hundreds of patients well defined ME neuroimmune illness or CFS defined by the Canadian criteria with neurological symptoms for whom stress was the main cause and who have recovered by removing the stressors and/or using CBT/GET or whatever treatment to recover.

rich

September 1st, 2011 3:39pm Report this comment

Bob
You are sneaking in a definition of science. We'd have to discuss what science is first. That is another depbate.
When you asy "thought comes from the brain" you are already dicussing something other than brain activity. You are using a metaphor. In terms of physical reality thoughts perhaos come or go within the brain, but you say they come "from" the brain. Why? Where are they going? I think you use metaphor because discussion of what the brain does transcends neurological descriptions and that is why we end up talking about the mind to enage with an aspect of the brain's activity as we perceive it.

Honora Murphy

September 1st, 2011 4:26pm Report this comment

Ok, Anon, you've convinced me: your illness was caused by stress.

Unfortunately for me, mine wasn't. Had it been, the years of mindfulness meditation I've practiced which has produced a most pleasant and mostly chill state of mind, along with my very real openness over the years regarding what ailed me, would have cured by long before now.

You will get no more argument from me and I wish you well.

Bob

September 1st, 2011 4:49pm Report this comment

@Rich

There is only the brain. That is the only thing that can be experimented on scientifically. You may wish to give some wight to the concept of the mind, but it does not scientifically exist. All you talk about coming from is only the brain. Philosophy has no place in medicine.

Lim

September 1st, 2011 4:59pm Report this comment

@Anon

Simon Wessely is not a scientist, he uses subjective measures and is a psychiatrist.

There is no scientific evidence that has ever shown stress to cause disease. Present the research you think is scientific.

The most parsimonious explanation for ME is the retroviral hypothesis, which I will return to in a moment.

CFS is a label. All CFS definitions are metaphors, not a differential diagnosis, unlike ME, which is.

Researchers of the first two human retroviruses, HIV and HTLV, also produced further research on their findings. No one would ever expect anything less. Frank Ruscetti, the man who also discovered the first human retrovirus, HTLV, was one of the authors of the paper that has shown HGRVs to be associated with ME/cfs.

The studies that have claimed to have retested patients from Lombardi et al. firstly did not replicate the proven methodology from that paper or the second positive paper Lo et al. They also failed to diagnostically validate their new assays. It is illegal to do this with a HIV assay. Therefore they do not qualify as scientific proof that the people tested are not infected with a human gammaretrovirus.

wisden

September 1st, 2011 5:12pm Report this comment

anon- re the Oxford criteria excluding neurological signs. That featured in a complaint that was made to Prof Malcolm Hooper's university by a David Jameson. Hooper answered it here,

http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/Response-to-David-Jameson.htm

Angela Kennedy

September 1st, 2011 5:38pm Report this comment

From the anon:

"Just as a parting thought: if you actually spoke to some patients who have recovered, you might find that there are hundreds of patients well defined ME neuroimmune illness or CFS defined by the Canadian criteria with neurological symptoms for whom stress was the main cause and who have recovered by removing the stressors and/or using CBT/GET or whatever treatment to recover."

Um- do you have any evidence to support that extraordinary claim please? Erm- any published research, for example, bearing in mind Professor Wessely and fellow proponents of psychogenic explanations for ME/CFS have never actually USED the Canadian
criteria in research? Or for that matter a recognised ME criteria, let alone a so-called 'well-defined' one? Or that 'Stress' differs from 'aberrant illness beliefs' as an explanation, the latter being the explanation expounded by Professor Wessely and his colleagues usually?

Angela Kennedy

September 1st, 2011 5:47pm Report this comment

My response to Professor Wessely and colleagues re the cohort in the negative XMRV study is here:

http://www.plosone.org/annotation/listThread.action?inReplyTo=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fannotation%2F13ea20d1-91e6-49c3-bc4b-8fd1ca18f150&root=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fannotation%2F13ea20d1-91e6-49c3-bc4b-8fd1ca18f150

The evidence cited there further contradicts the anon's claims about the Oxford Criteria. As will be seen, I am NOT misleading.

Anon

September 1st, 2011 6:14pm Report this comment

Honora: unfortunately rest and relaxation will not always cure CFS. Some kind of active rehabilitation seems to be needed, similar to GET. I was in the same situation as you until I realised that I actually felt better when I did something rather than just rested all the time.

As for Lim's comment that "There is no scientific evidence that has ever shown stress to cause disease. Present the research you think is scientific." You can't be serious, can you? Tell you what: show me scientific evidence that the earth is not flat, then I'll be happy to show you some evidence that stress causes disease. Anyway, from your comments it seems that you are not at all interested in science, given that you think XMRV has proven to be linked to CFS. That is what is known as a dubious illness belief, and it means that I would just be wasting my breath trying to discuss anything scientific at all with you. Go on believing that stress doesn't cause disease and CFS is caused by a retrovirus. Those of us who are open minded will pursue all options available in our effort to recover from CFS.

rich

September 1st, 2011 7:33pm Report this comment

Bob
To say anything about anything incl medicine presupposes a philosophy. First we must accept our own existence and the reality of the world around. We use our brain to do this but if I question this reality which includes my brain I am questioning my brain's exisrence and authority. What authority do I turn to to help me - the same brain which I am questioning. A conundrum, a closed circle which brain science won't open. Perhaps radical doubt is the best logical answer but in practice incl. medical practice everyone just accepts reality, an assumption unprovable by science. I think therefore I am is not about neurology.

As to the mind in medicine, you may be discussing products of the brain when you discuss e.g. emotions but you are not discussing the brain. That is why the mind has practical utility.

rich

September 1st, 2011 7:43pm Report this comment

Anon is well over the top but stress affects pjysiology and has a role in disease.
Re. fatigue states, e.g. high stress - high cortisol - lowered immunity - candida infections. Common in "ME".
Stress can also be of physiological origin.
It is worthy of consideration as acofactor in ME.

rich

September 1st, 2011 10:02pm Report this comment

@ Bob
"the separation of the two categories is arbitrary, often influenced by beliefs rather than proven scientific observations. And the fact that the brain and mind are one makes the separation artificial anyway."

Then the mind is just a synonym for the brain so why care if the term is used?

But then what word would you use to describe events in the brain such as emotions or thoughts which do not screan at us "I am so much dopamine at such a synapse combined with a bit of glutamic acid, travelling at xkm/sec down whatever neurone......" but rather make us smile, laugh, annoy us, intrigue us etc.Is there a better term than "mind".

rich

September 1st, 2011 10:12pm Report this comment

@ anon
P a Lease can you provide link to show that PACE excluded not fatigue state patients with neurological signs, but only those with a definite alternative diagnosis. This is an important point.

Angela Kennedy

September 1st, 2011 11:21pm Report this comment

Neither rich nor the anon have acknowledged the PROBLEMS (a few which I mentioned) of claiming 'stress' causes physiological impairments to the point of disease- even though these have been acknowledged in the research field. This is a very important limitation on 'stress' explanations, and why generalised claims about 'stress' causing ME/CFS don't wash (among other diseases). Let alone the issue of stress filling a 'discursive gap' in medicine- i.e. a default explanation for illnesses difficult to explain (another problem acknowledged in the research field).

And ok- do we really want to start talking about the MASSIVE problems of trying to define illnesses by the UBIQUITOUS symptom of 'fatigue', present in virtually all illness states and in health? Cos we can do!

Angela Kennedy

September 1st, 2011 11:48pm Report this comment

@ rich - the problem is that certain psychiatrists, and others, often attempt to conflate the mind and the brain, in order to claim that the 'mind' can influence the body to ever-increasing (to the point of absurdity) degrees. The idea that psychiatry and neurology can be conflated signifies this belief.

The 'mind' denotes the act of thinking. The 'brain' is a part of the body. The brain might facilitate the act of thinking, but one cannot think oneself (by the power of the mind) recovered from an infection, or cancer, or severe blood loss. That belief has never been substantiated (though it is often claimed in various discourses).

I will show two examples of the linguistic conflation of the mind and brain for rhetorical purposes. Note how the 'mind' suddenly becomes the 'brain'in these two paragraphs from different authors below.

1. Cameron (2001), who claims that a process called ‘interoception’ somehow provides an explanatory ‘psychobiological’ mechanism, involving ‘emotion’ and ’awareness’, to explain ‘psychosomatic processes’ and address the ‘mind-body problem‘, manages to skip from discussing the ‘mind’ to the ’brain’, in the same paragraph, without clarification:

“The assumption of the existence of psychosomatic processes and psychosomatic disorders is predicated on the belief that psychological or mental functions can interact with physiological or somatic functions—that the mind can affect the body and vice versa… Thus, any theory that proposes to explain psychosomatic functions must involve an explanation of how the brain and the body interact, in both directions: how the brain affects the body and also how the body affects the brain…”.

Note that here Cameron writes about the brain as if it were a separate entity from the rest of the body. By Cameron’s apparent logic (the brain is synonymous to the mind, separate to the rest of the body) any signs or symptoms resulting from a lesion on the brain would be ‘psychosomatic’ (meaning ‘psychogenic’), and not organic. Clearly this is not what the author intended, but by his misuse of the terms ‘mind’ and ‘brain’, in order to propose psychogenic explanations of some somatic illnesses (which is his intent) he has managed to commit these linguistic and logical errors.

2. Hagen (2005), an Evolutionary Psychology proponent, claims that criticisms of the discipline result from a "genuine mind-body dualism, a dualism EP rejects", then immediately asserts, in the very next sentence, “EP proposes that the brain was shaped by the same process and to the same end as the rest of the body” For the rest of his chapter, Hagen uses the term 'body-brain' dualism.

The issue of 'dualism' rears its head in the latter paper, and despite the claim of superior ability to transcend 'mind/body' dualism, it becomes clear that, linguistically and conceptually, that's not so doable. Dualism is NOT transcended even by Hagen.

But that's before we take into account the special pleading with regard to ME/CFS, where insinuations of malingering, sloth and hypochondria get mixed confusingly with 'stress' and uncanny, occult 'mind over body' explanations are proffered, in order to deny the often visible organicity in the impairments of people with ME/CFS diagnoses, and on the back of deeming something 'medically unexplained' due to difficulties and uncertainties in biomedical knowledge about a presenting condition.

Unpicking these problems gives one a better idea of why people (clinicians, academics, patients and their supporters) are troubled by the legion of confused and confusing claims made psychogenic explanations. It's a highly complex issue that requires a lot of analysis, and bounded rationality being what it is in the human animal, many give up. But the prevailing of flawed psychogenic explanations places patients at serious risk of harm. We cannot escape that.

Marie Barnfield

September 1st, 2011 11:57pm Report this comment

Firstly, I caught up with this thread c.10 am this morning (UK time) and found interesting claims by “Anon” claiming to be withholding name because of harassment received for admitting to having been cured by CBT of - as I recall - CFS “with neurological signs” (ie genuine ME?), arguing in favour of Simon Wessely’s “scientific” research and claiming psychological causation to be supported by the evidence. Not surprisingly, this was politely critiqued by other posters, although all of us, I am sure, are only too glad to hear of anyone’s recovery from illness. Interested to review the content and wording of Anon’s posts for comparative reasons, I am now even more intrigued to see that this whole discussion appears to hav4 been removed.

I am also an ME patient – of approaching 17 years’ duration. I had a background of chronic Epstein Barr (glandular fever), and would certainly concur that this needs to be tested for as a cause of chronic fatigue, and anti-herpesvirus drugs made available where test result indicate ongoing infection, as per the work of Dr Martin Lerner in the USA, used by several doctors in the States with very good results; both test and treatment currently outlawed by the NICE guidelines on ME. Anyhow, I could always recover from the EBV flare-ups, though, given rest and nutritional supplements.

Something else happened, however, when I had a hepatitis jab for an upcoming holiday late in 1994. I took ill the very next day and have never been well since. I had five years of partial remission during which I covered the illness up, having been despised for claiming to have ME (despite this having been diagnosed by GP and specialist) and feeling under immense social pressure to declare myself cured. Those years before the partial remission were hell. At its worst I could scarcely make it across my own lounge, once experienced total paralysis (whilst being shouted at, and having the bed kicked, by my husband – a convinced Wessleyite). There were times I was alone with my kids, semi-conscious, and afraid I might be dying. How low can a person’s life sink? Owing to pressure, I went back to work full time 5/6 years ago (I lose track of time) and relapsed again. Still relapsed. Now I have problems with the nerves in my legs and arms. But my real pity is not reserved for myself but for those much sicker than I have ever been, some of them children. The ludicrous thing is that the psychogenic theory of the illness has been so thoroughly disproved but the Wessely School battles on regardless, aware perhaps that the majority of people are unaware of the science.

Marie Barnfield

September 1st, 2011 11:59pm Report this comment

Now that I've registered, the discussions with Anon have reappeared - so evidently it was just a blip on my computer.
Marie

Lin

September 2nd, 2011 12:10am Report this comment

@Anon

I think it is clear you are a member of the Wessely School

You have failed to produce a paper proving stress can cause disease. This is not unexpected as non exist. Neither is their scientific evidence to support the use of CBT or GET in ME.

Human gammaretrovirus, not just the XMRV variant, have been shown to be associated with ME and prostate cancer. Frank Ruscetti, the man who discovered HTLV the first human retrovirus and Harvey Alter the man who discovered Hep C both agree. You can try taking up your beliefs with them, but I doubt irrational emotive statements will get you further than a polite goodbye.

Being open minded is a good place to start with science, but it does not provide data and it does not challenge a hypothesis. Only science can do that. Now science works on probabilities, not absolutes. Currently until the hypothesis is challenged, the Lombardi and Lo findings of a retroviral association to ME still stand. Only replication or diagnostically validated assays can challenge that research.

Bob

September 2nd, 2011 12:19am Report this comment

@rich

There is only the brain. There is only organic. Emotions are created by the mechanics of the brain.

You are attempting to turn voodoo into a science and are talking about a philosophical concept not an organ that can be scientifically studied.

Honora Murphy

September 2nd, 2011 12:31am Report this comment

@ Anon,

You wrote:
"Honora: unfortunately rest and relaxation will not always cure CFS. Some kind of active rehabilitation seems to be needed, similar to GET. I was in the same situation as you until I realised that I actually felt better when I did something rather than just rested all the time."

I don't know how I gave the impression that what I chose to do was just rest and relax. I also don't know how, based on what I've said, that you could know that we have been in the same situation. Perhaps we have, I have no way of knowing. I will spare everyone a rundown of what I have been doing in the 32 years since I got ill in 1979 but suffice it to say, my illness has followed a remitting and relapsing course which is not at all uncommon. I managed, after the first few very difficult years, to have a very exciting career which took me all over the world. I had spectacular crashes in exotic locales and less spectacular and ever more incomplete recoveries. I did not seriously undertake adequate pacing until I had been ill for 25 years and had no choice any longer because my illness was once again completely debilitating. This is such a common story for those of us lucky enough to be well enough to push and crash. 25% of people with ME don't experience that slow recovery from the initial bout; 75% do. I don't think the 75% do anything right, or the 25% do anything wrong - not anything that we can identify now. I think it's like MS which breaks down in a similar fashion and which has a similar history of shame and disbelief. As I said earlier, I suspect there is enormous overlap in these two conditions. I can't tell someone in that 25% that they should go and have an exciting career before they wear out because they can no more do that than someone with PPMS can have the life that someone with RRMS can have.

I hope I have made things more clear.

rich

September 2nd, 2011 12:41am Report this comment

@ Angela K
Much of my post went missing. It was long and has been chopped to almost nothing. Why Spectator?
I had no intention of showing stress can cause physical change to the point of disease. Infact in my full post to anon I question this idea, preferring the term "create conditons for disease". I do not think that is a radically misleading idea.
Stress is multifactorial. Organic illness is a stressor via physical mechanisms. It is not impossible also that a disordered hypothalamus might see relatively trivial noxious input, say an infection or toxin, as a major threat and react with an unwarrented stress response. This way of conceioving stress would, in contrast to SW and co., preddispose the physician to treat physical problems. If physical mordidities MIGHT be causing stress to the HPA, why not get rid of them. Not rocket scince. MY HPA was all over the place when I had an opportunistic infection. The solution was to treat it not give me talking therapy so I was not "afraid or stressed about it". I had a major attack just after finishing CBT/GET!

Of course implicit in offering CBT/GET alone is the belief that if you treat you encourage disabling illness beliefs. When they get rid of that dogma they might see that proper physical treatment can accompany psychological help. LP and Mickel/Reverseon my last encounter with them have the same problem - if we believe it's physical we make it so is implicit in their systems.

In short if anon and co.believe that psychological stress is such a problem that it can "make" you physically ill, then why NOT treat the physical illness AND the cause of psychological stress. If stress has made you ill, then the illness needs treatment. Not rocket science, and exactly waht is done for e.g. heart attack victims.

Michelle Dent

September 2nd, 2011 2:41am Report this comment

@Anon, if you felt better when you did something rather than resting, then you did not have ME.

I am glad you feel better for exercising, but NOT feeling better - feeling consistently much, much worse, and for a much longer time than could be considered normal - is the cardinal symptom of ME.

It's called 'post exertional neuroimmune exhaustion' or 'post-exertional malaise'.

Phoebe Snowden

September 2nd, 2011 5:36am Report this comment

What makes Mr. Wessley think that he, a psychiatrist, can treat the neuroimmune disease, ME/CFS? Psychiatrists have tried to appropriate other poorly-understood diseases in the past, such as MS, and have inflicted a great deal of suffering upon patients because those psychiatrists were unable to recognize that they were not qualified to treat a biological illness. It is tragic that when the cause of a disease is unknown it is relegated to the domain of the psych industry. This problem seems to be compounded in the UK, since physicians are not even allowed to test ME/CFS patients for chronic viral/bacterial infections, orthostatic intolerance, brain lesions, etc. etc. This approach is surely profitable for the psychiatrists, and also must be very cost-effective for the national healthcare system. However, it's baffling to the rest of the world that evidence of pathogens and other quantifiable symptoms in ME/CFS are ignored in the UK, while purely subjective psych diagnoses are embraced. When will the UK begin using 21st century medical methods for the treatment of ME/CFS?

Angela Kennedy

September 2nd, 2011 7:30am Report this comment

@ rich, ah! I see. That WAS unfortunate your post was cut.

Yes, those are fair points (though my caveat about the ubiquity of stress responses in animals remains) - and it does point to the confusion of concepts and ideology of most psychogenic explanations, where patients are being deemed 'authors of their own misfortunes', and where hypochondria and malingering are often the hidden explanations presiding even under 'stress' narratives (refusing to further investigate a confounding illness presentation demonstrating that).

Also, because 'stress' is a ubiquitous phenomenon, in order to use 'stress' as an explanation, some have resorted to claiming personality types are bad at handling stress, and that this leads to illness. Only different 'scientists' focus on different personality types! That is a whole other quagmire of confusion.

There is also the problem of affirming the consequent, that is, erroneously deeming a 'stress' response TO illness the CAUSE of illness. I think your post here shows how this is yet another problem in psychogenic explanations of illness.

Marie Barnfield

September 2nd, 2011 9:24am Report this comment

I am taking my courage in my hands and posting under my own name. I would urger Anon to do the same – really, nobody is going to hate or abuse anyone for having recovered from this illness.

I am also an ME patient – of approaching 17 years’ duration. I had a background of chronic Epstein Barr (glandular fever), and would certainly concur that this needs to be tested for as a cause of chronic fatigue, and anti-herpesvirus drugs made available where test result indicate ongoing infection, as per the work of Dr Martin Lerner in the USA, used by several doctors in the States with very good results. I could always recover from the EBV flare-ups, though, given rest and nutritional supplements.

Something else happened, however, when I had a hepatitis jab for an upcoming holiday late in 1994. I took ill the very next day and have never been well since. I had five years of partial remission during which I covered the illness up, having been despised for claiming to have ME (despite this having been diagnosed by GP and specialist) and feeling under immense social pressure to declare myself cured. Those years before the partial remission were hell. At its worst I could scarcely make it across my own lounge, once experienced total paralysis (whilst being shouted at, and having the bed kicked, by my husband – a convinced Wessleyite). There were times I was alone with my kids, semi-conscious, and afraid I might be dying. How low can a person’s life sink? Owing to pressure, I went back to work full time 5/6 years ago (I lose track of time) and relapsed again. Still relapsed. Now I have problems with the nerves in my legs and arms. But my real pity is not reserved for myself but for those much sicker than I have ever been, some of them children. The ludicrous thing is that the psychogenic theory of the illness has been so thoroughly disproved but the Wessely School battles on regardless (now cleverly – but rather tellingly - arguing that they should be allowed to insinuate themselves into neuroscience), knowing that the majority of people are unaware of the background.

rich

September 2nd, 2011 10:14am Report this comment

Thanks Angela.
Also for the mind/brain info.
On the latter I would say the life of thought, emotion/memory etc. is rooted in the brain (already a metaphor) but that the brain is influenced by this life of thought/emotion/physical experience/memory etc.. I would call this life "mind" and it can be a guide to what is happening in the brain at a neurochemical level. I think that is borne out in experience.
If every thought is accompanied by a neurological event, then if I want to predict the next neurological event at a neuro level, I might be better looking at the "mind" to make my prediction than by tracing past neurological events in terms of chemicals, potential differences, axonal pathways etc.
The individual's pattern of thought, the subject being thought about, experiences associated with the subject etc. may well predict the next thought and accompanying neuro events much better than looking at the last bit of biophysical brain activity. Maybe they will do Darren Brown vs brain scanning one day!
The mind is a window on the brain and, like the outer environemt, can feedback on the brain even if it "arises" from it. That is why psychiatrists legitimately deal with the life of the mind. What the patient is thinking/feeling can be a guide to the neurochemistry. I think "mind" is auseful concept at very least.
In fibromyalgia "wind up" occurs, whereby if you give a pain stimulus enough, the nervous system adapts to run more and more pain signals in the absence of actual pain stimulus. The pain is rooted in current neurological activity but also in the system's encoding of past pain events which were external to the system. Thoughts are internal but they still act as stimuli, and why should they not "wind up" the brain just as pain stimuli do?
Of course real treatment for FMS should not be limited to trying to convince the nervous system that it has made a mistake by talking to it, though if that works for some whether by CBT, LP or whatever, fair play. I wouldn't try to convinc e them thye never had real fibromyalgia.
I say "horses for courses". Look for and treat the physical, do waht you can via psycho-behavioural apprioaches but don't dogmatise about single aetiologies explicitly or implicitly and don't let dogmas run ME centres.
I think we will agree at least on qite a few things.

Bob

September 2nd, 2011 11:19am Report this comment

@rich

Science only recognizes the brain. You are talking about ideas that are akin to spirituality. You then continually confuse yourself by switching what you mean when you say the mind from being spiritual to the organic brain. You cannot scientifically study a spiritual concept. This type of pseudoscience has no place in medicine.

What ME centers? There are non in the UK. You mean fatigue clinics. Not the same thing at all.

Angela Kennedy

September 2nd, 2011 11:45am Report this comment

@ rich, but the problem is that there is still this special pleading with regard to ME/CFS. If ME/CFS is a neurological disease with multi-system dysfunction, all the talking and thinking in the world will not cure that disease, any more than they would cure AIDS, cancer, MND, Alzheimer's etc.

It is because ME/CFS, because of uncertainties in biomedical knowledge about it as a disease, has been fallaciously deemed psychogenic by default, that we have such a focus on 'talking' and 'thinking' (and excercise) therapies, AT THE EXPENSE of biomedical treatment, research or understanding, at the majority of the UK 'CFS' clinics.

polly

September 2nd, 2011 1:03pm Report this comment

Like I said in my earlier post Many of us have immune abnormalities , abnormal blood results , some even have abnormalities on MRI scans which are still dismissed as the neurologists are not quite sure what they are .We are offered CBT or GET and when it does not work we are told we havent really tried . Nothing like blaming the patient is there . Well im sorry but no amout of CBT is going to alter my abnormal blood results .

Surely patients such as myself deserve to be studied , to have out immune systems looked at properly and to have some chance of treatment and the chance to perhaps get our lives back .

To deny us proper treatment and testing is immoral. How can subjecting us to CBT and GET be justified when we clearly have abnormalities which need researching further?

rich

September 2nd, 2011 2:12pm Report this comment

@ Bob
I agree the centre sthat do exist treat fatigue state illness. But I am not sue how many patients have ME. How many with a diagnosis even by anadian criteria actually have encephalomyelitis rather than a neurologicla illness that has recieved this label?
If we define "mind" as thoughts, emotions etc, then I would not want a medical system that sidelined the mind, in this sense. Would you? If you have depression they are what you are going to talk about , they are the symptoms.
I may be confused. it's a confusing area, but I firmly believe that thoughts/feelings arising from the brain feedback onto it and are in that sense as real as sensory inputs. A thougth is not an organic/physical sensory input but it is real. We see a tree, it encodes in outr neurology but a tree is not the neurological representation of itslef and a thought/emotion cannot be reduced to its neurological representation. The "mind" has areality. It's just not physical, like many concepts. are unreal numbers "real". Without them we can't do alot of physics?
I guess we will never agree on this.
Best of luck with your ME, anyway.

Bob

September 2nd, 2011 4:33pm Report this comment

The Canadian criteria requires neurological signs and symptoms.

You are altering the meaning of the word mind to make it into the brain. There is still only the brain. There is no mystical energy creating thoughts, emotions, etc. Regardless, there is no scientific proof that thoughts create disease.

"A thougth is not an organic/physical sensory input but it is real."

Are you serious? Of course they are physical/organic.

No wonder there is no scientific progress when you think spirituality is science.

Joss

September 2nd, 2011 6:11pm Report this comment

The story about a handful of the estimated 17 million people world wide with this as a diagnostic label has been doing the news rounds for about a month now and has become more and more flamboyant the longer it runs.

The argument is made that some people with ME/CFS don’t want to believe that the illness they have is ‘psychological’ because they find it stigmatising. This is a complete misnomer and has been spread by the very people that want to classify ME/CFS as a ‘purely’ psychological disorder that should be treated ‘purely’ using psycho-social treatments such CBT and graded exercise.

The truth is much more complex: there are a great many scientists around the world who, contrary to what you will read in the British Press, do, in fact, believe that ME/CFS is a ‘physiological’ disorder, that it on the whole doesn’t respond to ‘purely’ psycho-social treatment, and that much more bio-medical research is needed.

Of course the dichotomy between these positions makes no sense in the first place – I have yet to work out what is meant by an illness that does not have any ‘physiology/biology’ attached to it.

The group that are loosely called the ‘Wessely School’, after Prof. Simon Wessely, claim constantly that the split between physiology and psychology makes no sense and that there needs to be an ‘end to Cartesian Dualism’. I happen to agree to a great extent although I have not made the leap in to complete reductionism when it comes to the mind/brain problem which is a complex and ongoing debate involving arguments around exactly what mind might be, how it arises from ‘brain’, what ‘thoughts’ are and if there are such things as ‘epiphenomenon’..

The problem I have is that if the ‘Wessely School’ want psychiatry and neurology to be the same thing then they cannot also argue that ME is not a ‘physiological’ problem – it simply makes no sense. They can’t have it both ways.

Many people with a diagnosis of ME or CFS or ME/CFS did have a viral start to their illness that has simply not resolved – when this happens they fall into a nightmare situation where they are told that the problem is lack of activity and a belief that they are ill when they are not. They are then told that the only thing that might help is CBT and graded exercise – some refuse, but a great many do try this approach and a great many of those find it of no help at all and some find it positively harmful both to their physical and ‘mental’ health.

Being constantly told that you are not to believe your own perceptions of your own body is, I can personally attest, quite head-fucking.

There have been two large medical trails in the UK looking in to psycho-social help for patients with ME; The FINE trial, the results of which were so bad that they have been largely buried and the PACE trail which showed very modest improvements in a small section of patients that were selected using the broadest criteria possible for ME/CFS patient selection. The PACE results were then spun out of all proportion via the Science Media Centre and the resulting headlines said things like ‘Got ME? Just exercise!’ (The Independent).

These two studies were allocated ALL of the Medical research Funds for ME/CFS in the UK and NO public money has been given for any bio-medical research.

Meanwhile bio-medical research has continued to be done; quite a lot has been discovered about the illness and proposed International Consensus Criteria have recently been published in the Journal of Internal Medicine supported by 25 clinicians and researchers from around the world:

Full text: http://niceguidelines.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/myalgic-encephalomyelitis-international-consensus-criteria.pdf

Journal: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-796.2011.02428.x/abstract

The general perception of those with ME is NOT a concern that being called ‘mentally ill’ is stigmatising – it is that the mental health treatments they have been offered simply do not help and yet in the UK nothing else is even being looked at and clinics offering CBT and Graded exercise have been rolled out across the NHS, at great cost, with very little evidence for their efficacy and are the ONLY ‘treatment’ available to people.

The clinic I attend for CBT and Graded exercise has for instance told me:

‘try and picture a blue bubble around myself so it is easier to deal with stressful people’

‘try reading the book of Job to help with sleep’

‘ME is classified as a mental health problem’ this is untrue it is not anywhere classified in this way.

‘Do as much on a bad day as you do on a good – try to level out your activities’ – to me this simply stresses the complete lack of understanding there is for what it is to live with this illness for years on end.

I won’t go on – it makes me depressed thinking about it….. and all of this provided on the NHS which seems to have decided that new-age wibble is 'treatment'.

I will just point out that Wessely is British liason psychiatrist who works in conjunction with government bodies that deal with benefits claims (he is cited on the DWP guidance for claims assessors) and with defence departments in the UK and the USA and also denies a ‘physiological’ explanation for gulf war illness, and also is quite happy to work for disability insurance companies that have been prosecuted for denying disability claims.

If Simon Wessely really cared about patients, as he claims, then he would not be shamelessy and constantly self-promoting in a way that damages their interests by giving the impression that there are more than a handful of people who feel they have been so maligned that they have ‘lost it’. You would think as a psychiatrist he might, in fact, understand that constantly being told that you are not experiencing what you are experiencing might lead someone to such action.

rich

September 2nd, 2011 11:37pm Report this comment

Bob
Canadian criteria require neurological signs and symptoms but that does nor prove inflammation of the brain and spinal cord which is encephalomyelitis. I have neuroimmune abnormalities, at my worst fitted the Canadian criteria but I have no idea if I had such inflammation. IMO this is a problem.
I am not talking about mystical energy. I am talking about brain processes out of which consciousness arises (your word) and about the feedback of consciousness onto the brain.
I can accept description of such consciousness in terms of physical processes but not to the exclusion of other descriptions. Nor do I believe they can be defined - as opposed to described - as neurological events. If I am asked by a foreigner what the word "thought" means I will not limit myself to biological descriptions. On the occasions I have seen apsychiatrist whoese dept walls were covered with charts and diagrams of brain function I have nevertheless talked about brain function throught he prism of conscious thought and feelings, arising as you say from the brain, describable in terms of brain function, in as far as current scince allows, but describable in other terms too. Personally this seesman inevitable oart of brain study.

I don't think we will ever agree but please reply if you wish.

Bob

September 3rd, 2011 12:13pm Report this comment

Inflammation has been confirmed in many research studies, including autopsies. It is very easy to confirm this with those tests for every person before they are diagnosed. After all, you cannot have ME if you do not have inflammation.

There is no scientific evidence that consciousness or any other process of the brain feeds back. Science is about observations and putting those observations to the test, not words with no objective meaning. Not philosophy. You are confusing the two. One is science the other is not science. Is that simple enough for you?

Marie Barnfield

September 3rd, 2011 1:49pm Report this comment

Rich,
Are you aware that inflammation of the spinal cord has been found in ME patients at autopsy? I too have never had this tested, but I know how much relief I get from spinal massage.
I happen to meet the Canadian criteria all the time, and my ME was of sudden onset (within 24 hours of vaccination) at a time when I was extremely physically fit. I don't see how my psychology is supposed to have altered that radically overnight. Was I injected with a personality-changing device, or what?
A certain amount of CFS is chronic Epstein Barr, no doubt about it, and there seems to be a genetic factor at work. Dr Kenny de Meirleir suspects the susceptibility to ME is probably in most cases undiagnosed or unaddressed food allergies, and that certainly rings true with me.
I am also clear that stress exacerbates - or can even trigger - the condition, but I imagine that is due to the physiological processes involved with stress reactions rather than the disembodied mind. Interestingly, scientists have found XMRV to thrive on, and indeed be triggered by, cortisol.
I'm not clear why you believe, or suspect, that ME alone of neurological/ neuro-immune diseases is caused by purely psychological factors. Remember, we only have this long-standing idea that ME is psychosomatic because psychiatrists leapt in before anything was known about the pathophysiology of the illness and claimed that there therefore was no pathophysiology. Now the pathophysiology has been well established Prof. Wessely is simply trying to move the psychological goalposts into the aetiology corner (ie to lack of established underlying cause). The problem with this is that ME is not special in having an unclear aetiology, and if Wessely wins the day with this argument over ME there is a danger that psychiatry will try to remove from physical treatment all other conditions of unknown aetiology - MS, Parkiinsons, lupus, type 1 diabetes, arthritis, not to mention a number of cancers.

rich

September 3rd, 2011 8:31pm Report this comment

Marie
I nowhere suggest that ME or associated illness is caused by purely or even maily psychological factors. That is certainly not waht I believe. Where have you got yjis idea? Please read my posts. I do not agree with psychogenic reductionism at all. I think you have confused me with anon.
I would agree with you that any form of stress - of psychological or physical origin does it s work via physiology.
I also believe our physiological stress system interact with the physical world and the world of thought/feeling and that the latter cannot be adequately described in terms of neurochemistry. I see no conflict here.

rich

September 3rd, 2011 8:49pm Report this comment

@ Marie
I know about Sofia Mirza etc., but I do not know if I have an inflamed spinal cord myself, though I do have immune related inflammation.
AS I pointed out to AK, I posted along answer to anon in which I alluded to some of the conditions you mention.
We are on the same side as to this illness. I just can't agree with Bob on the brain/mind issue, or at least our expressuions of it. "The brain is all their is" to me is lie looking at Caravaggio and saying "It's all paint". True but inadequate.

papagray

September 4th, 2011 9:43am Report this comment

wow folks some real comments on nurology and phyciatric problems..
does not help the person with ME/CFS
for goodness sake people wake up!!!
if you want a medal join the army... if you want fame go on x factor
don't play with peoples lives
evryone if different that is what makes ME so complex...
so we help the person live with it
we don't force treatments that happened in the middle ages...
evry person has a complex illness
treat them as such
some may have phyciatric problems that could laid at the fact they are depressed not knowing what is wrong...
as for the physical i can vouch for that...
i was a pacemaker on route marches now i struggle to keep up with my wife...
phycological.. no just exhausted.. trying to breath, move my legs ..concentrate...pain...
if you have ME you know you have..
i would love some of these people to get ME then they would change their mind..

Esther Siebert

September 4th, 2011 9:50am Report this comment

I would like to suggest, after 25 years with ME/CFS, that each of us examine the usefulness and benefit of participating in these discussions for yourself. We have so little energy and suffer from isolation and boredom, or at least I do. Just like knowing that we are going to die one day teaches us to make the most of the time we have, so too knowing how little energy we have can narrow our focus to do only the most positive activities to benefit ourselves and others. I for one have wasted so much time in self-pity, anger and self-distraction over the years. Now I want to use my energy for more productive, life-affirming pursuits. And pull back from things that sap my energy, add to my stress and add no real benefit to my life or that of others. No time or energy to waste...

rich

September 4th, 2011 12:02pm Report this comment

Esther
I think that is good general comment but each to their own.
For myself I find engaging with my illness as a science interesting so in that it is life affirnming for me. I have that kind of mind. Psychologically also it helps me objectify what is going on which I find beneficial.

Marie
You've got me wrong, I think. I know some patients have infalmed spinal cords. Why don't they test us?
As to stress, I nowhere suggest is is causatieve in ME/CFS etc. But in agiven case if it is a factor, then the docs should treat the physical illness arising from the stress as untreated it will only add to the stress. The psychologisers don't seem to apprecaitae this basic common sense as they are wedded in practice to ideas which ignore physiological inputs.
Spectator, why do you cut/remove my posts?

Each to their own.

Marie Barnfield

September 4th, 2011 12:14pm Report this comment

I take your point, Esther - I have never joined an ME forum for that very reason. But I do believe this to be a different situation. Here we have a chance to respond publicly to Simon Wessely's campaign of denigration of the ME community, and the incorrect notions about the illness that he continues to promulgate. The danger is that, if we don't, public opinion will remain on his side and our treatment in this country will never improve.

Angela Kennedy

September 4th, 2011 1:22pm Report this comment

This is indeed a special situation. At present, the only way in which ME/CFS sufferers and their supporters can demonstrate the problems of this latest negative PR campaign is to submit to comments pages like these. Letters pages will only print one or two heavily edited letters at most, and at present rights of reply are not being granted. Due to either ideological or policy reasons, ME/CFS patients and their supporters are currently being subject to a wide-ranging, intense negative PR campaign, with very little room for redress. While attacks on the motives of the community have been common over the years, the intensity of this latest campaign has been shocking. I am hoping that any reasonable people who have read these comments, not previously aware of the complexities of the whole issue, will have come away with a more rounded and intelligent understanding, not afforded by the negative PR campaign.

Esther Siebert

September 4th, 2011 7:15pm Report this comment

Thank you. I do see that this is a special situation where silence would be a mistake when up against these forces that trivialize our illness. Do I understand correctly that in Britain, because of the NHS stand on ME/CFS, you have no access to physical treatments like anti-virals etc.? And that research and treatment is therefore limited to CBT and graded exercise? If that is correct, this is an intolerable state of affairs and it must be fought!

Bob

September 5th, 2011 12:36am Report this comment

@rich

"We are on the same side as to this illness. I just can't agree with Bob on the brain/mind issue, or at least our expressuions of it. "The brain is all their is" to me is lie looking at Caravaggio and saying "It's all paint". True but inadequate."

Now you want aesthetic interpretation, which is again subjective, to be comparable to scientific research! There is only the physical brain. Anything and everything occurs because of the brain. Thoughts are not created outside the body and magically sent into the brain. There can be no discussion about separation because there is only the brain.

Marie Barnfield

September 5th, 2011 11:05pm Report this comment

Rich, maybe I have you wrong. Obviously the current UK practice of using uselessly vague diagnostic criteria (really just one criterion, chronic tiredness) and no tests results in the CFS community being composed of people with numerous different conditions. We do desperately need testing to find out which of us has what, and sort out those with ME from those with other fatigue conditions, and those who would benefit from psychologically based treatments and those who wouldn't. The only relevant tests I have had were for mitochondrial function and cell free DNA, which were paid for privately. Results highly abnormal. For anyone reading who doesn't known what that means, it means my cells cannot make energy normally and are being killed off abnormally fast.
Esther, yes you're right, nothing but CBT and GET for us in Britain. Even for me - "expert" at fatigue clinic told me to ignore the mito test results and embark on GET as this was real "evidence-based treatment." I managed to decline without causing too much of a row.
I don't think people here appreciate how the national maltreatment of people with ME is damaging the UK's reputation abroad.

papagray

September 6th, 2011 8:09pm Report this comment

with regret that is the present formula for most of the care in the uk.
minimum cost...
i have worked with the elderly,my last job before being retired on ill health.. they too are treated miserably unless you are wealthy treatments are the cheapest option available and it cannot get cheaper than graded exercise or cog behaviour therapy against...drugs mri scans..just do the math we are no longer able to contribute due to everyones illness being very complex to society by working 40 plus hours so ..
tuff i expect organised by some civil servant somewhere whoes only access is to read the papers issued to them, and have only heard of CFS...from mr wessley
need i say more
good luck to everyone whom has contributed my memory is very poor now,so complex wording is difficult to understand..
just remeber one thing...
DON'T GIVE UP!

ferny

September 8th, 2011 3:20pm Report this comment

Did Simon Wessely perhaps get the idea for this article from Oliver sacks awakenings? .Heroic doctor or in this case pioneering psychiatrist finds patients in dusty corridor or corner of hospital somewhere .With very little support or in this case lots of support from peer group fights against all the odds or persons with ME to highlight the plight of those afflicted. Eventually he succeeds in making marginalised ignored group of ME sufferers even more unpopular and undeserving than before .Thanks Simon for your wonderful work?

Post comment

Back to top

Cartoons

Tag Cloud

Coffee House archive

sponsored links

Spectator recommends

Spectator classifieds

THE PRESENT FINDER

1,700 Unusual Christmas Presents Request Catalogue 01935 815 195 Quote SPEC10 for 10% discount www.presentfinder.co.uk

OLIVE BRANCH FLORISTS

Pimilco based Florist with online ordering Web: www.olivebranch.net Tel: 020 7630 1868 Fax: 020 7233 8844

RUFFS Bespoke Signet rings

62 Shore Road, Warsash, Southampton, SO31 9FT Telephone: 01489 578867 Web site: www.ruffs.co.uk