In New York, the whole world remembers

Frank P

Listen up you young pup! After WWII Germany, Japan and Italy had to earn their respect again with the rest of the World by first accepting defeat and then showing that they were ashamed of what happened between 1939 - 1945. And begin behaving as though they were looking for a peaceful role in the world, rather than conquest. It took two decades or so for them to prove it and even now those of us who lived through it keep a wary eye on them. Islam has entered into no such acceptance. We are still at war, every day and in every country around the globe. We are still at war! Geddit? The duplicitous gestures from some members of the Muslim community do nothing to allay my sense of grievance; islam is full steam ahead in their effort to subjugate we 'infidels'.
Now I understand you refusal to address the Neathergate revelations. The World may be a melting pot, old chum, but I for one am one of the ingredients that wants to retain its flavour. If I need sweetening up it won't be with this sickly syrup. Wake up and smell the cordite. And stop fraternising with the enemy.

Frank P

Moreover, why do you have to boondoggle to New York to write this crap. You could have done it better in the office while kicking arse; these blogs have been sloppy since Pete Hoskin went sick.!

Frank P

And one last thing. I lost a very good pal in the Twin Towers atrocity; this is not a day for 'forgiveness in my book! He had a very good reason to go to New York that day. Not to write this sort of cobblers - it was to write himself off, as it happened. But that required courage. I doubt you understand the word.

Jeremy

Just to set things in perspective, the first Blitz on Britain lasted from September of 1940 to May of 1941. During that time 43,000 people were killed and 1.4 million people were made homeless.

As as result of 9/11 - which lasted for one day - there was a total of 2,996 deaths.

I find the endless propagandising of this last event, by the Americans, to be both maudlin and disproportionate.

Frank P

Apologies I forgot nto post the link that relates to my comment at 10.12am.

http://www.thegrouchygamer.com/?p=277

James W

@Frank P - you are welcome to your opinion - but don't kid yourself that you speak for anything other than a very small minority.

Hexhamgeezer

www.ocregister.com/opinion/roll-316321-let-mark.html

Mark Steyn throws a few facts our way on the cultural cringing and evasions going on for the anniversary.

daniel maris

"Some Muslims" you say.

Surely as a good journalist you know those Muslims (in Muslims for Life) are Ahmadiyyah who are considered the worst sort of heretic by the vast majority of Muslims in the world. In their homeland of Pakistan they are persecuted in numerous ways, including having their Mosques blown to smithereens.

However, the Ahmadiyya like all good Muslims seek the global triumph of Sharia and are happy to put about myths that many Christians find offensive (that Jesus did not die on the cross but somehow found his way to Kashmir).

In the UK the Ahmadiyya formed closed communities, speaking in their native languages, using each other's services and not out-marrying. No doubt the same is true in the USA.

The reality of the response within the community of Islam, as recorded in various surveys around the world, was that a huge number positively approved of the attacks (40% or more was a common sort of response)- and many of the rest were ambivalent (how often have we heard spokespeople for Islam condemn the deaths of "innocent people" - not the attacks themselves?).

Anna

Fraser, your thoughts are touching in their naivety. Where have you been? Have you read the Guardian? Did you listen to Question Time's Thursday 'special'? My own naivety extends to hoping that people aren't influenced by the Guardian or BBC, with their tunnel vision, but I know it's a forlorn hope.

Dan Grover

Okay Frank, it's time to head to bed now!

Honestly, if you really don't see the difference between a set of Nation states and a global religion with as many interpretations as there are people, no wonder you haven't solved the world's problems yet. One of the main problems of this "war" is precisely that we aren't fighting a country or a group, we're fighting an ideology. The guy praying next to the Pretzel vendor in New York is far, far more likely to be on "our side" than that of of the Islamic militants, so to what extent can he be described as making "duplicitous gestures". We aren't fighting a country, a flag, or an entity that defends itself in the UN. This is an ideal, and the fact that they are all muslims, does not make all muslims they, any more than your average Christian is prone to buggering blond haired boys.

You may wish to retain your flavour, Frank, and that's laudible. There's no reason, though, to attempt to overpower the other flavours.

(I'm not sure how much further this metaphor can be extended.)

Augustus

May all those who lost their lives rest in peace. Bless those who grapple daily with memories, nightmares and health problems.
And to those troops who still fight valiantly on against this barbarism, my heartfelt thanks. And may all those who danced in the streets with joy on hearing the news burn in hell.

Frank P

I've said my piece and nothing you write there is there likely to change my mind about the root cause - an 800 year war that we are now losing. And by we, I mean the infidels. If that leaves a nasty taste in your mouth, then I think you are ignoring what is more likely to poison our culture and the world at large.

Frank P

Btw on a point of order I was unaware that Christian paedophile priests confined themselves to 'blond haired' boys. Perhaps that explains more about you your thought processes than theirs.

porkbelly

No not a "tragedy", an attack, the opening of a new front in Islam's war of subjugation. Can we have a little less weepy celebration of victimhood and a little more commemoration of those whose sacrifice and bravery has beaten back al Qaeda and its allies? And a little less James Taylor and Paul Simon strumming their weepy little ditties? Or is martial spirit now something to be ashamed of?

David Lindsay

Yasser Arafat, who gave blood for the victims of 11th September 2001 (whereas the pictures of rejoicing Palestinians were of questionable provenance, a suspicion greatly heightened by their popularity with the American media and the BBC), was utterly scornful of the idea that Osama Bin Laden and his mostly Saudi, in no case Palestinian proxies were in any sense motivated by the Palestinian cause, in which they had never shown the slightest previous interest.

Arabs from the Peninsula in any case do not regard people from the Levant as the real thing, since they only adopted Arabic after the Islamic Conquest and huge numbers of them have never given up their ancestral Christianity; Christians have reserved representation both in the Jordanian Parliament and on the Palestinian Authority, not something with any parallel in the rest of what was once British Palestine.

The 11th September hijackers were motivated by the presence of American troops in the Saudi Arabia from which most of them hailed. George W Bush, to give him his due, withdrew those troops, in consequence of which there has been no further attack on American soil.

Archibald

As anyone who has suffered a loss, particularly an untimely one, will know, there is little that can be said or done to ease the pain of those left behind, so to offer condolences seems such an empty gesture. But, even putting political reasons aside, it is important to remember. Matthew Parris' article for the Spectator 'Another Voice' on the death of his father puts the personal ones better than I ever could.

Fraser, in the blog you attempt to convey the sense of a united front of all religions and creeds against the terrors by way of your own tribute. It would be remiss of me therefore not to challenge you again to confront the EDL, given they were formed in response to Islamic extremists protesting against our troops in Luton. You've done your remembrance piece, now let's start looking at the consequences of the 10 years since then.

Why does the argument regarding the EDL revolve almost entirely around free speech? I have been asking you and the others to properly dissect and defeat the EDL rather than simply discuss free speech with no actual analysis whatsoever. Such arguments are 10-a-penny right across the web.

No-one anywhere that I have seen is tackling the EDL properly. Because of this, denial of free speech is an argument the EDL have been allowed to grow an increasingly strong position in.

Surely the argument should be about EDL ideology, half-truths and the misappropriated arguments of its mission statement, using proper analysis to expose and defeat them? As you put it yourself, "the best way to deal with such groups is not to keep them in the dark, but let them perish in the sunlight." In my view, just talking about free speech and the arguments for and against marches does not do this. It is surely the equivalent to not doing anything and hoping they'll go away.

Above, you pay a fitting tribute to the unified celebrations of the melting pot that is NYC. You rightly suggest it will be remembered as not just America's tragedy, but a tragedy for the world. I agree.

So, what are you going to do now? Forget all about it, or start standing up to be counted? What use is your tribute if you will not stand up for your own convictions? Or is the above just words?

Tom Pride

Frank P can be blunt – but more often than not there is a grain of truth within. I stumbled across the following article after following a link on the Commentator. . . http://www.hudson-ny.org/2401/muslim-persecution-of-christians-august-2011

If this is all true – references are provided – it is shocking and an eye opener.

AAE

Mayor Bloomberg however isn't averse to stamping his left-wing narrative on the day it seems. If you follow Frank's link (on the CoffeeHouse Wall) to Mark Steyn, you'll see that Bloomberg's inclusiveness didn't extend to the men of the NY Fire Dept. due to lack of space apparently, and someone saying that there was room on this day 10 years ago for 343 dead ones reminded me of a US President, perhaps Eisenhower, who, when after the last war de Gaulle said he wanted all US soldiers off French soil, replied, does that include all the dead ones?

David Lindsay

Tom Pride, and whose fault is that?

In Bosnia and Kosovo, we mercilessly imposed Islamic states against the historic gatekeppers of Christendom. We back the Chechens (or anyone else for that matter, I'll come back to that if you like) against the pre-eminent such gatekeeper.

We took out the great bulwark against Islamic fundamentalism in Iraq, using the ancient indigenous Christians as bait for the jihadis in a Straussian game of cat and mouse. We are being bounced into doing the same thing in Syria.

We favour the Saudi-backed side in Lebanon. We have installed an Islamist government in Libya, a government also already engaged in the vicious persecution of black Africans there.

We welcome Turkey, founded on the bloody mass expulsion of Greeks and Armenians, into NATO and putatively into the EU. We will do absolutely anything for a State founded on the violent clearing of Christians out of the Holy Land.

And so on, and on, and on.

Frank P

Tom Pride (11.43pm)

An interesting link - thank you. I can also recommend the work of John Fonte, another Hudson Institute guru, if you want further evidence about the ideological war against the West, both external and internal, that has been waged both covertly and overtly throughout my adult lifetime (I am 77) and long before I was aware of it, as I now realize.

Truth, by the way, sometimes requires 'bluntness'; bad manners even, when needs must. Frank in name and nature is my motto. I'm surprised that after reading the Hudson Institute article you cited above, the 'grain' that you allowed me didn't become a boulder. Read Fonte and see what you think of his work. He's very good on Gramsci and the Frankfort School, too, whose modern disciples have formed an alliance with militant Islam pro tem; each form of madness convinced that it is a marriage of convenience that will eventually dissolve in the other's annihilation once it has served their respective purposes.

And though I am rough with our Editor, to give him his due, he does enable dissent on this blog, which he agrees is good for debate and therefore for his magazine. So the clicking punters serve his purposes in more ways than one. I can hear him now - "Clicking punterrrs!! But it gets the hits, Andrew".

His Neather regions have given grave cause for concern, though - not just to me but almost the entire crew of this weird vessel we sail in. In his stubborn refusal to keep a promise to air the Neather revelations and subsequent ramifications, he has made a rod for his own back, so to speak.

And finally, do YOU think his post above justified the plane fare and 5 star accommodation (probably at the media Mayflower, Central Park West) - five star roaches there too, cockroaches that is, not the Willy Nelson type - or do you think he short-changed his paymasters and his readers, perhaps?

Frank P

Nicholas posted his link over on the Wall:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/embassy-protesters-burn-us-flag-132118970.html

QED.

EC

I am 100% in agreement with Frank P.

Here is the video backup for Nicholas & Frank's post:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14872713
The footage of scum burning the American flag starts at min 1:32 of the report

As for David Lindsay's claims that videos on 9/11 showing muslims rejoicing at the destruction were "of questionable provenance."

What total crap! I remember watching two different live news feeds that day and there was much spontaneous rejoicing - even dancing on the streets of Leeds, UK. Bastards, as was Arafat who was a lifelong terrorist and serial embezzler.

EC

*ttp://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/09/10/911-photos-the-people-we-must-never-forget/

Robert Taggart

Some of us remember...
Mayor Giuliani welcoming (granting The Freedom of New York City ?) to Terorist Gerry Adams in the mid '90's.
This coming after another wave of IRA London bombings - funded in part by NYC Irish-Americans. There being many of them, and, many more phoney ones.
Al-Qaeda did unto them as they did unto us... big-time.
OH THE IRONY !

Tom Pride

Frank P

If this post is the sum total of Fraser’s output from his trip to the States – then you have a fair point. But, I suspect there will be more to come plus the networking, meetings etc which are part of his job as editor. I have had the occasional job related semi-perk myself, so I am not going to begrudge others theirs – provided it’s reasonable.

Thanks for the references. I saw yesterday’s Muslim extremist protests on BBC London local news – they reported it because the EDL mounted a counter protest which ended up with two of their members being stabbed in a pub near Marble Arch.

The anti-fascists, Statists and even the Spectator are quick to condemn the EDL, but where were they when that odious demonstration took place? If you want to marginalise the EDL it is no good just mouthing them off – the legitimate issues which they are demonstrating about need to be tackled and resolved by the establishment. (I don’t blame the police on this occasion for allowing the Muslim demonstration – I am sure good intelligence was gathered despite their face coverings.)

Frank P

Tom Pride

You're no doubt right about intelligence gleaned; probably a couple of spooks within the Islamic demo. :-)

Frank P

The Swiss vid is a real cruncher. Even Ann Barnstormer was gobsmacked. A bit unnerving in some ways, though, as his delivery is not unlike the late Mr Schicklgruber and makes my spine freeze a little; I remember those strident deliveries emitting from my Dad's Cossor, when I was a toddler, as he was constructing his crystal sets. Or was it the the Decca Brunswick? It matters not, the chilling tones are imprinted on my soul for eternity. Who'd have thunk in 1945 that it would come to this pretty pass in one lifetime? He's right, never mind the delivery. Are we mad?
Indeed we are!