Salmond's bonnie boat

Robert Eve

Bring it on.

Scotland is full of people of the left.

I'm very happy to see them leave.

Gawain

Like all populists the SNP are very, very good at manipulating the media but, I suspect they will beggar Scotland in the long run. If they want to break up the Union it should be a United Kingdom wide referendum and if they win the Scots should understand that they will be taking on a fair proportion of the national debt burden (particularly for any banks with the word "Scotland" in their names). The basic dishonesty of the SNP position is that they are like a feckless father walking away from a marriage leaving the mother to look after a disabled child whilst thinking they don't have to bear any of the cost. It will blow up in Scotland's face. I just hope that twenty years from now the last person to leave Scotland remembers to turn the lights out, my English children won't be able to afford the electricity bill !

Dennis Churchill

It is inevitable simply because Scottish Nationalism seems little more than Anglophobia.
There should be simultaneous referenda in England and Scotland; either voting to end the Union should decide the matter.
We need to move on; this is just a distraction as far as England is concerned. It would virtually go unnoticed. We have had the equivalent of the population of Scotland come to England under the Neather policy initiative, which has caused many more problems than the loss of Scotland would.
As so many Scots politicians seem to favour Open Borders they can encourage a few million recent immigrants to move to Scotland and show us how Multiculturalism should work.

cmp

It's just a matter of time isn't it.

But Fraser, would Scottish independence be good or bad for England?

Gorondells

It is probably a combination of factors - the general incompetence of the Westminster club and the fact that the "Yookay" is an honorary member of the third world. The Scots can't do any worse on their own.

One only needs to look at the general state of England (and it is very sad) to see the point - third world levels of debt; workshy natives; few natural resources (the bedrock of any economy); very little industry or economic activity of note; a general societal breakdown (witness the shocking events of the Summer); a bankrupt "City" and a political class that doesn't know its elbow from its fundament. Why would anyone wish to remained attached to this?

DavidDP

"Who will lead the "no" campaign?"

Billy Connolly.

Who lacks the rather , er, more interesting approach to women that Sean Connery does, so that's a bonus for a start.

James

Fantastic news.

Hopefully, an independent Scotland will be the legal successor to the United Kingdom, leaving England free to pursue freedom and independence from Scotland and the EU...

andrew kerins

Who will lead the NO campaign ?
Tabloid newspapers, such as the Daily Mail and (almost certainly) the Sun.
Also, the BBC - in its own 'unbiased' way. An independent Scotland threatens it and, like any threatened institution, it will defend itself.
Think how easily the AV referendum campaign was sunk.

Phil Lawrence

Seems that Gawain knows very little about the Scottish media and the SNP's manipulation thereof. It is in spite of the media and not because of it that the SNP do well in Scotland.

s skivington

I agree in some part, with the comments, but, as a scot who lives in england there seems to be a somewhat pedantic attitude towards every scot who lives here. I get quite frustrated with the somewhat ignorant comments that are made to me like " you lot are everywhere" and " why are you down here when scotland wants to go it alone". At the risk of sounding impertinent not all scots agree with the snp ideals, and also would like to point out that if you are worried about your english children footing the bill, then maybe scotland shoyldnt have let so many non scottish children attend their universities when there were no fees.

Muriach

The interesting questions for me are whether Scotland will adopt the Euro after the separation, and whether Scotland will adopt the English Summer Time after it has been revised to European Time.
Not problems for England [Eurostar copes with both issues] but potentially a bit tricky for Salmond's Scotland.

Angus McLellan

On a weekend when the Telegraph reported that the MoD has had to be bailed out with an extra £3.9 billion, Gawain's comment should be good for a hollow laugh or two.

anthony Scholefield

Letds look at the history of Scots and money

The Darien scheme-bankrupted Scotland
John Law-bankrupted France
City of Glasgow Bank-bankrupted much of the West of Scotand
RBS and Bank of Scotland-bankrupted England.

Leave them to their arc of prosperity.

HackneyJon

I just don't understand why English and unionist politicians generally let this guy Salmond make all the running. Why should he decide the timing of any referendum on independence? We all know his plan is to gradually crank up the pressure by making faux patriotic and unreasonable demands of the 'English' government in Westminster and then to call the referendum when the pot is boiling nicely. Why is everyone allowing him to call all the shots? DC should announce a referendum in short order to clear the air and to put Salmond on the back foot for once. If the Scots are foolish enough to vote to break up the union, so be it. I for one don't think they will.

Frank

Gawain, "The SNP are good at manipulating the media". Show me an example. Every paper in Scotland is run with an English agenda. Any positive SNP stories are dismissed, but any negative SNP stories are splashed across the front pages. I suggest you get your facts right. Also as far as the banks are concerned they may have the name Scotland in them but they are all owned and run from London.

David

Why is it going "depressingly" well?

When will the penny drop for the unionist media, negative campaigns fail miserably.

Derek

If Scotland leave the union of GB. They should not get any further grants or funding from Westminster or be allowed to sit in our parliment. They should also take on debt left by failed banks etc. If all the scots voted, it would be GOODBYE SALMON AND NOT GOODBYE SCOTLAND.

strapworld

Dennis Churchill is spot on. But please let's bring Wales and Northern Ireland into the equation. Put up border controls and let the Welsh, Irish and Scots pay for entering England, on production of their passports,identity cards, driving licences and co-op loyalty cards.

The Welsh must also be able to speak Welsh! be able to read a chapter of Chaucer, in Welsh, and interpret it into English. The fee to pass into England being £250. with a £1.000 deposit.

No Scot will be unable to cross into England until they repay all monies paid by the English under the Barnett formula!

The Irish can do whatever but all air routes from England to Ireland will be closed. No Irish commentators will be allowed on English radio or television, so it will be "Goodbye Mr Wogan"

I think we will manage.

p.s. No English Newspaper or Magazine will be allowed to have any Scots, Welsh or Irish staff...So it will be 'Goodbye Mr Fraser"

daniel maris

Well, if I was a Scotsman living in Scotland, I think I'd happily vote in favour of separation. They've got a bright future in terms of renewable energy resources. As an independent state they'll benefit from the economic impact of central government departments being located in Edinburgh rather than London. Also they'll be able to protect themselves from the worst effects of mass immigration, now becoming evident in England.

As someone from south of the border, I think I've tired of the Scotch insistence on quasi-independence while wanting to rule us from Westminster. So they get my vote for independence as well.

Voice of Reason

Detestable racist comments. Obnoxious and stupid comments worthy of Himmler himsel'. Reeking pompous factually insane comments. Does anyone wonder why the English are not liked the world over?

dak

Yes, Fraser, Scotland does matter, and not just as a source of votes for UK political parties. In fact, that's one of the reasons why we want to go our own way.

Another is to finally put an end to the ill-mannered badly educated whines from unionists, as evidenced above.

But the main reason is that finally people in Scotland (not just Scots) are asking themselves "What benefit does the Union bring to our country?" and, like myself, cannot think of a good answer.

We'll take our share of the debt that the UK government has run up supporting a worthless UK financial "industry" and we'll pay it back.

I S

'Depressingly' for a Quisling like you Fraser, with your strangulated vowels, toadying ways and desperation to become a media figure.
Not to worry; the usual array of vested interests will mobilise to scare the populace into sticking with the present arrangement. This will include all the newspapers (with The Mail. The Sun and The Scotsman to the fore), the BBC, the Tory and Labour puppets and assorted businessmen hoping for knighthoods.
For all the English who are fantasising that independence for England will solve all their problems, can I ask a few questions?-
Do you imagine that your huge immigrant population will instantly up sticks and leave?
Do you honestly believe that your politicians will take England out of the EU?
An independent Scotland would face many problems, but given the current parlous state of the UK and its, seemingly, continuous, interminable decline, could it be much worse?

Ewan McLachlan

Given that Sean Connery is a retired elderly man of 81, not in the best of health, I suspect Mr Nelson is merely reverting to stereotype.

As to who will lead the NO campaign, can I suggest you Unionist chappies keep doing what you've been doing for the last 300 years and keep pouring on the vitriol. It's bound to work...

Tearlach

Well judging by the almost complete lack of understanding of what is actually happening in Scotland by those posting here tonight, the referendum is almost as good as won.

Since May the SNP have fundamentally redefined politics in Scotland and the three UK parties have no idea of how to compete. It would be sad if it was not so funny.

Oh - and I'd be more than happy if we allowed an independence referendum to be UK wide, as long as you lot reciprocated and agreed than any referendum for the Rump of the UK to leave the EU included all member states.

Will that happen? Oink oink Flap flap....

Welcome to the real world guys.

David

Let's look at the Scots history on money...

Adam Smith is often touted as the world's first free-market capitalist. While that designation is probably a bit overstated, Smith's place in history as the father of modern economics and a major proponent of laissez-faire economic policies is quite secure. Read on to learn about how this Scottish philosopher argued against mercantilism to become the father of modern free trade.

Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/adam-smith-economics.asp#ixzz1ayuYHuAM

Dennis Churchill

Would Scotland and England and Wales have to reapply to join the EU?
Would the Shetlands get a choice between joining Scotland, England or Norway or even opt for independence?

glenlivetguy

Referendum now if just for the opportunity for every one in England,Wales,NI and Scotland to learn what debts and contingent liabilities Labour through Gordon Brown has built up for every man, woman and child in current UK and who is going to be saddled with repaying and servicing them, and the fact that even with luck, because of the still massive government spend over income, the debt continues to rack up at £150, £120, £90 and £60 billion plus for the next 3 or so years .

FvH

Murdo F. might be a "Tory Ian Gray waiting to happen" bu this idea for a new centre right Scottish party is a sound one

Scotland plc is viable especially with new oil finds - plus gas and hydro electric

10% Corporation tax and skilled / relatively skilled workforce make Scotland attractive for inward investment

Better to let independence happen then campaign for lower tax, lower benefit payments -Scots are naturally short arms deep pockets after all

martin christie

How many of the commentors here are scottish? How many of you live in scotland? The english people should have no say at all. At the end of the day if the scottish people want freedom then it should be their choice. If its so bad up here then why do they care?

Gawain

Frank, I wasn't talking about the Scottish media. The English newspapers treat Salmond like a head of state and the BBC's reverence towards him can best be described as grovelling.

As for banking, you obviously know little about it. RBS was very much run by Scots in Scotland. Sir Fred Goodwin was a highly regarded member of the Scottish establishment and so was the chairman of the bank. I would also point out that a Scottish prime minister engineered a ruinous merger of HBOS with one of the few solvent English banks, Lloyds Bank, with the sole purpose of saving votes in Scotland and the North of England. The whole relationship between Scottish banking and the last Labour regime and their Scottish Chancellors was, with hindsight, far too cosy and the hubris of their Scottish managements was given too much latitude. Scots need to stop blaming the English for their own inadequacies !!

TGF UKIP

"It was his failure to interest Scots that cost him the election" - just Scots, Fraser?

I really do find it quite difficult to understand why you seem to be so reluctant to face up to the plain fact that yours is no longer a national UK party. Indeed, with your progresssive and seemingly inexorable shrink south, it is at least arguable that you are no longer even a national English party.

Much more difficult and faith-shaking for you, of course, is facing up to where, or perhaps more accurately with whom, the responsibility for the acceleration of this shrinkage lies.

adrian

The United Kingdom was broken from the start. Only Wealth, Force and Intertia ever really held it together.

England is almost as broken as it can be, and the Future does not look too bright.

I does not seem to matter Who is in power in London : Nothing good for the Country seems to ever get done, just different pockets get lined.

Sinking Ships, and Rats spring to mind.

If there is to be Secession, good luck to them, and all of us.

Chris Mac

A few facts . . .Scotland is the only country, state, province, region or local authority that has discovered oil and has not directly benefited from it . .Scotland has huge economic output and even more untapped potential - oil, whisky, green energy, fisheries, water, a highly educated population, one of the highest concentration of highly ranked universitiesin the world, the biggest arts festival in the world, a growing financial sector, massive tourism market . Scottish politicians have been disprportionately influential in the UK for decades . . .Scotland is also so much cooler than England, by a long way! It is a fact that Scotland already more than pays its way. We don't want nuclear weapons, we don't like being run by a bunch of confused and less than competent grasping spivs and aristocrats-who-all-went-to-school-together-and-happen-to-be-the-best-people-to-run-the-country. Independence will be good for Scotland, no doubt and it will re-energise English politics to look at what actually matters.

wrinkled weasel

Breathtaking ignorance shown by commenters, such as claiming the SNP manipulate the media (Gawain), or that Scottish Nationalism is "little more than Anglophobia" (D.Churchill).

Scotland is a different country, with a different culture, as compared to say, Brighton, which is nearer to Antwerp than Edinburgh and more than twice as far to Aberdeen.

I have seen Scotland asserting itself over the 8 years I have lived here. Apart from some nasty anti-English racism and sectarianism, the "nationalism", in my experience, is about disassociating itself from a Government that is Londoncentric, and re-asserting a set of values that have hitherto been subsumed under a naive bit of social engineering inspired by people who know as much about the Scots as they do about Lithuanians.

As for migrants, you won't get them here because it is too bloody cold and wet.

Andrew P

This whole debate never fails to sadden me. What exactly is it that people in the Western Isles think that Edinburgh understands so much better about their issues than London does? Is the Scottish parliament really that much better than London that you'd want to double the bureaucracy again? Are there really so many differences between English, Welsh and Scots that we need totally seperate countries to resolve ourselves? Together we are stronger.

tom jones

Imagine how screwed Labour would be without their Scotland MPs in the commons. Their chances of winning an election again would be reduced and also, if the Scots are so convinced of their own importance/ability to fund their own services then we'll soon see that they're wrong within the first few months of independance. How long will it be before the SNP up taxes to pay for services and the Scots decide "ooops. We messed up big time." The only people to benefit from Scottish independance will be the English so go ahead SNP. Do your worst!

Taylor

I'm amazed by some of the other posts here.

Gawain : What your suggesting is fantasy. We live in the United Kingdom, where the rule of law applies. The Scots have a legal right to go to the vote, independently from England. The only referendum the English could hold would be whether they wanted to stay in the Union also. It's odd how some English seem to begrudge decency and the laws of the land when it comes to others.

Dennis Churchill : The SNP are pro-English, not Anglo-phobic. If you listen to their speeches or read their literature, you'd know that. Scottish Nationalism is about the Scottish these days, not the English. It's funny to see how difficult some English cannot deal with this reality. The Scottish have an opportunity to take a path of their own choosing, that reflects their values more (whatever you might think about those values). That the Scots have routinely voted for policies that Westminster *never* provides says all you need to know about why this has come about.

Respect the ballot and wish them well, I say. I'm all in favour of democracy and the freedoms it provides. Good luck to the Scots from an Englishman, if/when they become a Confederacy (the most likely outcome).

Jason Noghani

Scotland are generally doing the right thing here. They seem to be making all the sensible decisions, and their independence, from an Englishmans perspective, should be welcomed with open arms if thats what they want. The only off-putting aspect is that Alex Salmond is so smug and is blatantly xenophobic towards the English. If that wasnt so blatant, I would say that the whole independence issue would be a lot less formidable!

John Bailey

England needs the Scottish EU Region for absolutely nothing, not Politically, not Financially nor Militarily, England will be better off without the Scottish EU Region, and someone shold also mention to the Scots and EU fanatic Salmond that 'Independence' does not mean being a Puppet Region of Brussels.

jazz606

Have a referendum now and get it over with.

KwH

I am a Scottish "right of centre" ex Tory activist. I despise the likes of Salmond and co and their social democratic rubbish. BUT, I'm voting for independence when I get the chance. And I will be arguing from within that Scotland can be quite happy wiuthout the problems that England bring to the table with their multi culturalism, their knackered financial sector and a political class that have ruined things for us all and handed or backsides over to Europe.

Scotland has 5million punters and a chance at a fresh start. It has a huge amount of natural resources, it has a highly educated workforce and people the world over like the Scots.

I daresay we will have the usual left wing cabal running the show initially, but believe you me, there are plenty of people motivated enough to bring the right of centre point of view to the fore.

There are actually plenty of current SNP MSPs who share this political point of view amazingly enough. They were smart enough to stand on Labours ground and take Labours vote away from them. If you had lived under pretty much Labour rule all your life then youd do anything to get away from it. Salmond was smart enough to divide and conquor and will no doubt reach his goal within a few years now. I'm looking forward to helping make Scotland a good place to do business, instead of seeing all our young talent ship off to other places, it would be great to see our small nation become a thriving place. And I think it will do.

Helen

Scotland going? Why is that depressing It's cause for celebration!

The only depressing part of it, is that Scots will be negotiatin with Scots in Westminster, for the best deal for Scotland - at the expense of England !!!!

They do have something we don't, though - Alex Salmond. Well done, that man. Pity our lot are dominated by the British.

KwH

Jason @ 12.01 am.. I think the anti English thing has been a lot less noticable in recent times. There seems to be a bit more of an outward looking feeling just now. As a Scotsman reading through plenty of blogs I certainly notice plenty of anti Scottish stuff there from our English chums. There is a little bit of that on this thread too actually.

You are right about Salmond being smug all the same. I cant stand the guy, but you have to admire the way he has driven his agenda through. I think the guy has a bit of a God complex actually, but he is probably the most impressive politician in the British Isles at the moment (not that he has outstanding competition) and he has a lot of the political establishment on the run just now. If there are people out there who genuinely want to protect the UK as a status quo then they had better start getting their act together as he is romping home just now, driving the agenda and generally pointing and laughing at "the opposition". And running any sort of negative campaign will play right into his hands too. The Scottish situation has generally been ignored by the political class in London, this seems to have taken them by surprise and they don't know what to do next.

Austin Barry

Scotland, our chums in Anglophobia, should become independent and enjoy the prosperity and economic boom times which we are experiencing here in Ireland.

Scotland will also have great fun electing a president. We Irish are currently considering the runners for the 27 October presidential election.

The choice is between a screaming theatrical queen who supports the Hellenic notion of pederasty, a blood-drenched terrorist, a befuddled geriatric midget, a barmy former Eurovision Song Contest winner (winning song reprised as “All Kinds of Bullshit”), a man with a bald head and a rather fey woman who sits on a number of boards. The man with the bald head is leading the polls.

Go for it Scotland.

Nicholas

I always thought there was something odd about you, Austin Barry.

All is now revealed. I understand and the feeling is mutual. You might articulate your dislike snidely from time to time but don't be under any illusion about mine just because I usually refrain from reciprocality.

oldtimer

Cameron does not like the idea of referenda. If he has one for Scotland he will be under even greater pressure to have one for exiting the EU. Independence could be catching.

Pete

In the General Election of 2010 a total of 94,906 votes were cast in the two Scottish constituencies adjacent to the border.

83,816 were cast for the three main unionist parties and 9,442 were for the SNP. UKIP and others managed 1,876.

There seems to be little appetite for independence in these areas. Will they be allowed, in the interests of fairness, to opt out of an independent Scotland?

Boudicca

The Union as it is is finished: devolution and the EU have seen to that.

The bold thing which Cameron should do is to hold a UK-wide Referendum on whether the Union should remain as it is with devolved assemblies, or become a Federal State with separate Parliaments in all the constituent nations/states.

Whatever happens, the current situation with the English denied their own Parliament, free from Scots/Welsh/NI interference cannot continue.

ThigArLatha

Reading some of these posts it seems that the English don't want us Scots.
However they also seem to take great joy in telling us that we can't make it on our own.
I think the truth will be slightly less interesting.
Scotland will probably be poorer than SE England. It is further from European markets primarily.
We will probably always see a brain drain to England and the ROW of some of our more "creative" types. It is unlikely that people like Michael Clark or Alan Cumming will settle for working in Aberdeen or Aberfeldy when they can break London. However ambitious English creatives end up in LA....
I, for one, hope that both countries do well and think that KwH will be correct in the long run. The right wing will rise again in Scotland. It just wont be the Conservative and Unionist party.

Austin Barry

Nicholas @ Oct 17 9.29am

Eh?

David L

Scotland joined the United Kingdom because it was on the point of going bust. It benefited from the UK's colonial expansion and industrial revolution. Now the UK is skint, and getting skinter. Hardly surprising (if not very noble) if the Scots decide it's time to cut the tie. And that's even before we think about politics. The Westminster bubble seems pretty remote to me - and I live in London. For the Scots it truly is a foreign country, and when the leader of the Labour party, which, until recently regarded Scotland as its Parliamentary fiefdom, can't name his own Scottish party's leadership candidates, the remoteness is clearly mutual.

Frankly

With the capitalist system in structural crisis, Scotland is indeed showing signs of making up its mind about independence, the constitutional option which would clearly enable it to avail itself of all of the benefits of its still highly valuable offshore-oil lifeline among its many other assets.

While the structurally unbalanced UK economy and the over-indebted UK state are increasingly perceived to be unlikely to protect the northern kingdom adequately in the course of the prolonged upheavals which are expected in consequence of the global economic crisis, in which, according to even the governor of the Bank of Blighty, the UK's financial difficulties are so serious that they could eclipse the Great Depression, support for Scottish independence appears to be growing steadily, even rapidly.

The latest opinion poll on the subject shows Scottish support for Scottish independence to have risen to 49% (yes, 49%) with opposition down to 37%, while UK-wide support for Scottish independence was
found to be 39% with 38% against.

How has it come to this? Not mere populism, of course. Interacting with the final stage of the monumentally catastrophic phase B of the current Kondratieff conjunctural cycle of the capitalist system, there is a long-
established dynamic at work, against which anglo-unionism would appear to be ultimately powerless by virtue of the intrinsic nature of that dynamic. See if you can spot it:

http://tinyurl.com/3u6ywa5

http://tinyurl.com/6b3devj

http://tinyurl.com/6a43y78

Wilhelm 1

Scotland use to be a conservative country. In the 1950s the majority of Scots voted Tory. Victorian Scotland use to be famous for its inventors and entreprenuers, people like Adam Smith, David Hume, Robert Adam , James Clerk Maxwell. And Scotland is still a white country unlike England which is had the brunt of the African islamic third world invasion.

But in the 1960s it slowly changed. The labour/ cultural marxist party have bit by by bit slowly hijacked the country, just as they did in Holland. So for for last 50 years the labour apparatchiks have ruled Scotland as their OWN private plaything and turned the country into across between North Korea , Cuba and Albania.

These atheist socialist shit stirrers are ALL based in Glasgow. Glasgow is not really a Scots city due to heavy Irish immigration just as Liverpool is not really an English city, both towns have weird accents because of the Irish .

Unlike England where the majority of people live in the country. Country folk tend to be right wing. In Scotland its the reverse, more people live in the cities and city folk tend to be marxists.

The SNP are not a nationalist party, they are true believers in multiculturalism ( which Fraser Nelson is ) and wants to fill the country up with Africans and muslims. They've got bongo bongo madness.

The Scots labour party are SQUEALING from the rooftops against Scots independence. We all know why, dont we ? Without Scotland and Wales, labour cant and will never again win and sieze power in England.

So my enemy of my enemy is my friend, so we should wish ( and that includes YOU Fraser ) Alex Salmond every success in winning Scots independence and thus the British labour party will be destroyed and everyone will be happy.

Because labour is a cancer, marxist and atheist. They're like an iceberg, cold and dangerous and they should NEVER be in power again.

starfish

Topsy Turvy

Despite all the rhetoric, the devolution settlement, Barnett etc and a landslide victory by the SNP 60-odd per cent of Scots still do not favour independence

And this is a demonstration of how well Salmond is doing?

Seems to me the Scots are having their cake and eating it - may be that is why so many people are getting worked up about it!

The whole independence project will be torpedoed by the complexities of separation anyway so I don't understand what all the fuss is about

ellubo

It's like the NTC mopping up the last of the Union Loyalists. Is it any surprise that Scots are voting for someone who puts Scotland first. The unionist press and media are unable to keep the genie out of the bottle now that people watch television with a laptop by their side and foreign news media is a click away.

Scotland has a National Leader who speaks for Scotland - so does Wales and Ireland. Who speaks for GB. The leader of a coalition of an unwilling coalition of countries (save Northern Ireland - how I wish I could get that abortion off my passport) and that coalition is part of a coalition of Europe. Another unelected unaudited abortion.

All England has is Nigel Farage. But England doesn't exist as a political entity. It is merely a defunct governorship desperatly trying to justify it's existence.

It time for England to stand up for it's self, not as GB (I can't write the word great without cringing) but as a great Liberal Democracy.

England you need a leader.

I S

Vilehelm - Thank you for bringing some much-needed sanity to this debate.

Tiberius

Think you've been a bit hard on Austin there, Nicholas.

It may be unpalatable to say it, but Salmond is Mussolini 21st century, with his smug, posturing, peacock-feathers style. He is in fact just another beneficiary of New Labour's client state, and a reminder of how well Blair did in his almost-successful quest to destroy the Tory Party.

He won't win an independence vote (although I have no wish to keep paying tax to fund the Northern Territories) because that would scupper the possibility of Celtic and Rangers ever playing in a league that plays football.

ThigArLatha

I don't think Economics will actually swing it.
Ultimately it comes down to a matter of the heart.
Ask any Scot this question.
"Are you Scottish,British or both?"
The pensioners will probably come back overwhelmingly both.
The middle aged (50+)probably a small majority both.
The young overwhelmingly Scottish only.

Wilhelm 1

The 3 things that binded the 2 kingdoms together Scotland and England were the monarchy, the protestant religion and empire.

Since labour and liberals have attacked these institutions since the Cultural Marxist revolution of the 1960s. Its a strange ironic twist of fate that labour took the genie out of the bottle and are finally getting their comeuppance and getting a taste of their own medicine.

It was Enoch Powell who coined the phrase '' the West Lothian Question '' ( not Tam Dalyell ) in response to a 4 hour, long winded, boring speech Dalyell gave about devolution in the House of Commons. Powell stood up and said '' So you're talking about the West Lothian question then ? ''

Visionary Enoch Powell also predicted this would happen,'' once you set up a parliament in Edinburgh , it will want more and more powers , slowly but surely, and the end destination is independence ''. It may not come tomorrow, next year or the next 5 years, but it WILL come.

James Matthews

Surely no one can read these comments without concluding that the Union should end without further delay. Mutual loathing, mistrust and recrimination are no basis for sharing a state.Off you go Scotland and please don't forget to close the border securely behind you.

Voice of Reason

I'm with you James Matthews, but for very different reasons. I genuinely hope Scotland gets out quick before the nutjobs in England, like a few above, encourage a Neu Kristallnacht. England is extremely ill. I sincerely hope for the rest of the world that the cancer is not terminal.

Bienn Na Faoghla

Fraser demonstrates his misunderstanding of the peculiarities of Scottish politics. You see there is no great ideological battle taking place,nor is there a burning desire for independence. The party that wins is the party perceived to be best placed to squeeze the most concessions from the UK government.
The street fighter Salmond currently fills that role, but secretly few Scots have much desire for the man or his party.

Voice of Reason

Hey Ben, where did you get your incredible insight into the collective Scottish mind? Was it The Broons or Oor Wullie?

I S

Bienn - Your supreme confidence in your ability to read the 'secret' mind of Scots is only matched by your sublime ignorance.

James Matthews

Voice of Reason. You seem to have managed to take in the English comments but failed to notice the Scottish ones. The SNP cybernats are second to no one in their capacity for abuse. I any event yout observation is fanciful (Though it confirms Godwin's law). Neither English nor Scottish nationalists are fascists. It is simply that there is no longer sufficient common identity to sustain a common state.

I S

James Mathews - I am not entirely sure that I buy into your contention that English nationalists are not necessarily fascists.
Judging by the contributions to this site from the English nationalists, the less extreme of them vote UKIP and the rest support the BNP or the EDL.

Eyeconoclast

I think it's an excellent idea from Gawain upthread that Scotland should have to take responsibility for the debts of the banks with 'Scotland' in their names.

Bit harsh on the poor people of Halifax, though, who will have to take on half the debt of Halifax Bank of Scotland. I suppose they could start earnestly explaining, with much nervous swallowing, that it's actually Halifax in Nova Scotia, and nothing to do with them no nothing at all...

And I don't know how pleased Her Maj is going to be when Gawain turns up on Buck Pal doorstep: "Please sir your majesty please sir but I'm afraid that you're going to have to take on half the debts of RBOS because er yes sir no sir I mean yes but no but it's er it's got 'Royal' it its name yes sir please your majesty it starts with 'Royal'..."

Eyeconoclast

I think it's an excellent idea from Gawain upthread that Scotland should have to take responsibility for the debts of the banks with 'Scotland' in their names.

Bit harsh on the poor people of Halifax, though, who will have to take on half the debt of Halifax Bank of Scotland. I suppose they could start earnestly explaining, with much nervous swallowing, that it's actually Halifax in Nova Scotia, and nothing to do with them no nothing at all...

And I don't know how pleased Her Maj is going to be when Gawain turns up on Buck Pal doorstep: "Please sir your majesty please sir but I'm afraid that you're going to have to take on half the debts of RBOS because er yes sir no sir I mean yes but no but it's er it's got 'Royal' it its name yes sir please your majesty it starts with 'Royal'..."

duff beer

Love thy neighbour as thyself.

shaun the brummie

ChrisMac...we'll be better off when we drive all celts on benefits trom england,and england pulls out of europe.human rights act gets ripped up and all those that should be kicked out will be....with no appeals.passport controls at the borders,the celts to be treated like muslims at JFK airport,all scots students automatically returned to scottish uni's to finish their courses.welsh football teams getting democratically voted out of english football,and scottish teams told in no uncertain terms they'll never get in...i could go on and on....but the more i think about it the more i like it.the celts will have to use the euro or their own currency(not the english pound).i'd trust the taleban more than a celt,and i'd sooner fight a celt than the taleban...after what the celt led labour party has done to MY country(ENGLAND).

shaun the brummie

chris mac...it'll focus english minds alright,into thinking why are there so many jocks,taffs and paddies living in england...something should be done..and will be..so the english get priority in everything...then a pecking order for you foreigners....and there wont be any open borders,so you carpet baggers will be stopped stealing jobs and houses and uni places.....bring on independence...