The debate over Europe's future

boulay

Yay!! Euro crisis caused by lack of flexibility on interest rates due to one size fits all policy.

solution, more one size fits all policies....

Vulture

There's no 'debate' any more about Europe JJ.

It has self-destructed before our eyes. The Eurosceptics have been proved right and the European political class utterly wrong.

In a less enlightened age they would have been hanging from lampposts by now. As it is, they will have to hope that their EU
pensions hold out long enough to see them through. Shame about the rest of us.

Ghengis

FUTURE??????

Axstane

"An erosion of the eurozone would jeopardise Europe as a political project". The Great Pan-European Solidarity Zone, the Thousand Year Reich, the Code Sarkozy, the USSR, the Tower of Babel.

From where I sit I see those old grandiose dreams being reenacted again.

The smugness of the political class and their assumption that homogenity is necessarily a great thing is incredible and unbearable. Finally there wil be only one political party allowed in the Greater Europe.

TrevorsDen

This bloke is talking about Euro 'stability'?
Its created instability. Its crippled nations.
Now he uses this self created instability to pretend that the future lies in greater integration - presumably led by no democratically accountable 'meritocrats'.

The EU needs the exact opposite kind of reform to that being suggested.

Tarka the Rotter

MMMMmmm weren't President Hacha and King Boris of Bulgaria summoned to Berlin once upon a time? Someone should warn CastIron...but then again...

Widmerpool

Interesting piece without the usual Europhile apologia from some Speccie contributors

IMHO one of the problems for the Euro project is that it does not fit with Global dynamics as they are now and those at the centre of it continue "farting at thunder" The over socialised/ trade protective model(especially the CAP and labour laws) is no longer fit for purpose.The world has moved on from when the Euro dream was devised in the last century.
No wonder the Chinese won't bail them out see what the Head of CIC the Chinese Sov. Wealth Fund said:
"the chairman of the supervisory board of China Investment Corporation, the country’s sovereign wealth fund, put further distance between China and the eurozone bail-out, saying that Europe’s bloated welfare state meant that people did not work hard enough.
“I think if you look at the troubles which happened in European countries, this is purely because of the accumulated troubles of their worn out welfare societies,” Jin Liqun said in an interview with Al Jazeera television. “I think the labour laws are outdated – the labour laws induce sloth, indolence rather than hard working. The incentive system is totally out of whack.”
Eurozone leaders had been hoping that China would use some of its trade surplus to back the bail-out fund"

When will these deranged Eurocrats get it they are the object of scorn and disapproval by the two richest nations the US and China and can't fart against thunder!

Heartless P.

providing a taste of what David Cameron can expect when he meets Angela Merkel in Berlin today

N'er mind what the H2B can expect, - that's of no import.

The German, however, will expect what she knows is coming - and in double quick time: a blank cheque borne by the grovelling H2B. (And no, I don't believe a word of the already written communique detailing how Brave Dave, the PR monkey, saved the day.)

pete-s

If there is a proposed treaty change; then I do not accept because we are not in the Euro at the moment it does not concern us. If the treaty change has the potential of taking power away from the U.K. then I demand a referendum.

wrinkled weasel

On the question of a change in the EU Treaty I have always been led to believe that this would need a referendum in the UK and other countries.

Since the Europhiles have a history of riding roughshod over democracy, the crucial question is how they will flick the mirrors and avoid the need to consult the people.

In Britain we have a Prime Minister who is not minded to consult anybody, let alone the people. Previous referendums have been staged again until the people "got it right".

My guess is that a form of words will be cobbled together which will be touted as "not a treaty change", thus sidestepping the inconvenience of putting it to a popular vote. Cameron is part of the Eurodisaster, not part of the solution.

It is clear already what the British Government's stance will be: "We need to use this opportunity as a negotiating tool", with the clear implication that Britain will agree to a re-writing of the treaty on some specious conditions.

If anybody thinks there is going to be a democratic or advantageous solution to the current EU crisis they have not been practicing their lip-reading.

Be in no doubt that we are on the brink of the formation of a European superstate governed and controlled by a political elite who will shed the last vestiges of democracy before the ink is dry on the enabling act.

salieri

Thank you, JJ, for defining the issue fairly, unlike Daniel Korski whose posts on the EU are becoming tiresome (they have always been juvenile). When trying to defend the indefensible, the standard parti pris ploy is to misrepresent the question.

andrew

Westerwelle is absolutely right. There has to be fundemental economic reform of labour laws, etc. The truth of the matter is that we would be as bankrupt as Greece if King had not stepped in with quantitative easing, that will only stoke inflation. In contrast, Ireland has a growth rate of 1.8%, has cut its public sector to no more than 30% of GDP and will come out of this crisis quicker and in better shape than we will. The sooner we cut the public sector the better

michael

Where shall we both meet again
Ireland, France, in Greece or Spain
The hurly burly's all but done
Now the battle's lost ...and some

That be the EU's set of sun

Where the place
To lay the wreath
There to greet Euro-death

-Come come Greymerkel
-Pas de deux
-and on...

Fair is foul, foul is fair
Thro' the mists and fog of EU air

Corinium

It's very hard to avoid the conclusion that Hitler is roasting in the fiery fires of Hell telling anyone who will listen "I told them I'd win that war".

Dennis Churchill

We are net contributors and run a £34 billion a year trade deficit with the rest of the EU.If Cameron can’t negotiate from that position he is in the wrong job.
What we need is an official and credible cost benefit analyses followed by an in or Out referendum.

chinasyndrome

Blah, blah, blah....same old eurospeak. UK has the possibility to define the post Euro landscape; go for it Dave.

Hexhamgeezer

I hope dave tells Angela and Guido to stop banging on about Europe.

Dennis Churchill

Conservative MPs that might think that in the medium/ long term, after the EU has collapsed, collaborator might not be a line you would want on your CV could think about threatening to resign the whip.
There are more of them than LibDems.
They could then hold the balance of power. The LibDems know they would be destroyed as a party if they forced an election and Labour would have to fight it on a Pro-EU manifesto.
As the EU gets more power Westminster’s parliament becomes more irrelevant anyhow.

PayDirt

Widmerpool is right to draw attention to what CIC's view. Get back to work you slackers for there is no big teat out there for you to hold on to for much longer.

Markku Kallio

Preface
This article is about the Holocaust. I´ll consider the Holocaust not from the normal perspective, that of historical research and of human suffering, but from a political and spiritual view point. Main characteristic of the political view point is to consider the consequences on international level of the Holocaust. It is truly like Theodor Herzl has put it: there would be no Zionism without anti-semitism. There would be no Israel and no political influence of Zionism and pro-Israeli groups without the Holocaust.

Accordingly, whether or not there were a mass murder of people of Jewish descent, there fate has been used as political propaganda not for the good of human kind but for the ends of the Zionists. For Zionism, Holocaust is a all important political weapon used to buy arms and commit oppression.
The spiritual point of view is based on Emanuel Swedenborgs Heavenly Doctrine. Swedenborg has revealed what might be called the secret code of the Word. If the Bible is the Lord´s Word, it must not be read like any other book. In every word of the Bible, there is the Divine meaning, Spiritual and Celestial. Certainly God speaking from eternity and looking for the eternal life of mankind would not write about enslaving pagans, or tell the story of a few men. Rather, like in all human writing there is the inner meaning of what the author meant, likewise in Bible there is the Inner Meaning of what the Lord meant. I dare say the Word Sun in His Bible does not mean the sun in our common language, but something with reference to Eternity and Salvation of the Human kind, which is the persective of the Divine author.

According to the Secret Code the Trinity of God should be understood as the Trinity of One Divine Person. Father is the Soul or the Divine Love, Sun is the Body or Divine Wisdom and the Holy Spirit is the Influx or Life Flowing out from the Soul throught the Body and making into being and giving life to the universe.
The Trinity exists in the Lord Jesus Christ as soul, body and life from the soul trough body does in every human being.

The Word thus carries the Lord´s Divine Love and Wisdom hidden behind the often contradictory and irrational literal sense. The Inner Meaning of the Word is the Light and Truth that can reveal every the true nature of all things and help people to understand the most profound philosofical questions of life from the only perspective that is universal: from the Lord´s eternal perspective.
As the Jewish rabbies of Jesus´time didn´t accept His Divinity but killed him, so do the spiritual heirs of them, the Zionist elite of today hate the Truth and Good of the Lord. Humility and the search of eternal happines is foreing to the Talmudic ideology. Zionism is that search of worldly paradise lead by the Jews as Messiah put into political form as the Talmud is the same in religious form manipulating the decent Israelis to accept the terror of their government and putting them indanger of attacs of their fellow Palestinians.
With the spiritual and the political perspectives combined the reader gets a totally different perception of the meaning of Holocaust than from the media and history books. A sad truth is that media corporations and history tellers are since a long time combined with the Wall Street elites, with international bankers, in whose lines the Zionist influence has been great ever since the American Civil War and Waterloo in Europe.

The Possibility of a Hoax
Holocaust is heavily contradicted by tecnical evidence
It has been claimed that the toxic gas used to exterminate inmates in Auschwitz-Birkenau camps is what is called Zyklon-B produced by Tesch and Degesch corporations.
Death penalty in the USA is carried out with HCN, which is the very same Zyklon-B gas as used in concentration camps.

In USA they use chambers of steel. HCN has tendency to concentrate on the walls and on the skin of the convict. To prevent that, the temperature of the chamber must be kept constant on a certain level. If the temperature is not kept constant the cell and the body must be washed with clor to get away the consentrated gas. The personal must use special clothes and gas mask. Neither is the ventilation of the cell easy as HCN is lighter than air.

Thus in the USA carring out the death penalty of just a single convict requieres special arrangements. How were the Nazis able to organize the mass murder in the primitive circumstances of Auschwitz. There is no evidence of functioning ventilation system in the concentration camps. This is a problem as the HCN mixed with air is explosive. Furthermore, steamy cyanide or HCN would easily concentrate on the walls of the chamber and on the skinn of the inmates.

Each chamber should have been washed clean of the gas after every group of people murdered. It is not clear whether this could have been done succesfully. Even so, is it possible that the explosive Zyklon B was stored rigth next to the crematorio? How the were the Nazis able to get the corpses out from the chamber without letting out any of the inflammable and explosive cyanide mixed air? There must also have washed the bodies of concentrated gas.

Studies of professor Faurisson implicate similar problems with the Holocaust. Some of his research are published in his article The ZĂĽndel Trials (1985 and 1988), (JHR 4/1988), where he describes his part in the ZĂĽndel -trial of 1988.
Faurisson claims that Ken Wilson, a specialist in aerial photographs has shown that the chamber of Auschwitz and Birkenau did not have chimneys to let out the gas which of course would have been necessary.

Furher, according to the RudolfReport (p 288) there have been hardly any left over of cyanide on the walls of the chambers.
Faurisson writes (Truth in Press, Spotlight, 01.09.1990) about the confession of the chief of Auschwitz, Rudolf Höss, obtained with torture.

According to Höss, the door to chamber was opened after half an hour after the gassing and ventilated. Carring away the bodies was began immediately. Höss said that the carriers did their work smoking and eating at the same time. Faurisson wonders how it could have been possible to eat and smoke, take of the gas mask and carry away bodies with possible concentrated rests of the gas from a chamber ful of gas. And how could it be possible to smoke with explosive gas around stemming from peoples lungs. Even after one week of gassing going into the chamber without a mask will kill.
Confessions seems to be a lie.

I have been to Auchwitz, where thy show the reconstructed gas chambers (Auschwitz I), and rests of other crematorios and gas chambers (Birkenau). In Struthof (Elsass) and Majdanek (Poland) I have inverstigated buildings that are claimed to be the original gas chambers. I have analysed thousands of documents, stenographic copies, photographs and written testimonies especially in the Contemporary Jewish Documentation Center of Paris. I have troubled specialists and historians with my question. In vain, I have been looking for even one intern or prisoner, who could testify to having seen with his or her own eyes a gas chamber. In no manner I was looking for the abundance of deceitfuls testimonies. But I have found plenty of these false wittnesses. I have also encountered silence, embarrasment, anger and finally even insults and violence.
Final Solution and other evidence
World Almanac announces the number of Jews in 1940 (p 129) to be 15 390 359 and in 1949 (p 289) 15 713 638. According to these figures the number of Jews has risen with more than 300 000 during the WWII. Even if the growth of the population had been exponential the number could not have risen if the genocide of siz million had taken place.

Ethics. The German nations cultural and ethical background is deeply rooted in Christian faith wich cannot but feel repulse with the idea of exerminating other ethnic groups. I it highly doubtful that people would have given not even silent concent to that, neither that the Nazis could have come up with an idea like that. Genocides of smaller groups of people have by contrast been part of the Zionist agenda and it is not that foregn to the Talmudic beliefs of supremacy and cruelty of Torah
Final Solution is translated from the German Endlösung, that means simply a solution. The background of the Nazis digust towards the Jewish population living in their mids is the role of the Jewish financiers in the German economy as well as the world. To talk about a Jewish financier is not the same as for example German or American financier. The difference comes from the Talmudic believes derived from Torah that Jew are God´s chosen people, and other people are for them to be used as they please. Benefitting by financial means from other peoples work is not foreing to any financiers grieavance for capital gains but in the Jewish religions and the Zionist political movement there is this element of control and use even more strongly. American automobile manufacturer Henry Ford did was on similar lines with Hitler in his book the International Jew.

In his Mein Kampf and speeches Hitler often talked about the Jewish financiers, the leading role the Jewish higher classes had in Germany on and the world. Hitler saw the role of the Jewish financiers in starting the world war, in Bolshevique revolution and in world economy. That was his problem. And for that he needed a solution. In some of speeches he accuses the democracies of double standards as they wouldn´t consent to taking in the German Jews. He was looking for a solution for getting Jews out of Germany not for killing them.

The world has sufficient space for settlements, but we must once and for all get rid of the opinion that the Jewish race was only created by God for the purpose of being in a certain percentage a parasite living on the body and the productive work of other nations. The Jewish race will have to adapt itself to sound constructive activity as other nations do, or sooner or later it will succumb to a crisis of an inconceivable magnitude.(The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, I, London, 1942, pp. 737-741, www-document).

It is true that Hitler did prophesy a bitter future for the Jews:
If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe! (Ibid).

This however is not the same as a plan of extermination not even an approval of the idea of doing so. Furthermore, the Endlösung or Solution if it meant extermination instead of isolation and preparation for emigrating would have requiered a huge budjet and central institutions of planning and carring out the operation. It seems that sending out the Jews out of Germany has been converted to sending the Jews out of the entire world in post WWII history.

It is worth while acquinting oneself with investigation of Paul Rassinier, The Holocaust Story and the Lies of Ulysses. There he asserts that the Nazis did not have plan to exterminate the Jews and there was no decission made of gassing.
Rassinier had personally been through the concentration camps as he was member of anohter outcast groups in the Nazi Germany, communist and Nazi hater.
Source:
The Journal of Historical Review, kevät 1989, Faurissonin artikkeli âťMy Life as a Revisionistâť.
The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, I, London, 1942, pp. 737-741, http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/documents/part1/doc59.html

Holocaust as a means of political power

In media and history books the Holocaust has been given immense meaning. Fact or hoax, the holocaust has been commercialised and politicised to buy support and advantages for the Zionist organisation and Israel. Holocaust has been used as a propaganda weapon, a very strong and useful one. European nations have suffered from bas consience and felt immense sympathy for survivers of the genocide and their heirs, the later Israeli state. Antzionsim is often accused of being just another form of antisemitism. In Germany, Austria and Israel the denial of the Holocaust is legally codified as a crime.
Now, if it would be shown to the whole world that the Holocaust never took place, consequences for the Zionism and Israel would be bad: they would loose great deal of there support, Zionist leaders would be brought to international courts of justice and Israel as by definition a Jewish state would be democraticed to a inclusive Palestinian state. That is by the way what the Iranian president meant with his ill quoted comment on wiping Israel out of the map.

Spiritual origin of the Hoax of Holocaust
The spiritual origin of the Hoax of Holocaust derives from the Talmudic societies in hell. People who connect with the Zionist believes in the Jewish supremacy or the lust of power and money are under the influence from these Talmudic hells. From there they get the hatred against all truth and good to point of being able to kill like the rabbinical spiritual forefathers killed Jesus.
The influence takes the form of search for international power in politics, ecnomy and social lives. By creating the lie of six million Jews these people are able to gather sympathy and finances. Almost nobody dares to question the Holocaust as that is often criminelized and branded as antisemitism.

In 1995 the European Parliament declared a European day of Rememberance of the Liberation of Auschwitz. Meadia coverage on the subject has been so great that hardly anyone even thinks about the possibility of Holocaust never having taken place.

In Conclusion
The extermination of the Jews during the Third Reich is heavily contradicted by tecnical evidence involving the gas, the gassing process, the ventilation and the structure of the chambers. More support on these claims is laid by World Almanac information, by christian ethics and by the lack of budjets, programs and planning for the carring out of this vast operation. There seems to be reasons to suspect a most tragic myth of the history.
Maybe most importantly, we should look at the great advantege the Holocaust industry has brought to a certain polical group. The economic advantages and political support for Israel are undeniable. Sadly, a genocide true or not has been used as a meanst to build up a militar super power in the Middle East.
Israel is one of the most strong nuclear states of our time. With the support of USA it is also a terrorist state constantly searching means to expand its territory and brain washing generations of young Israelis with a long military service against their neighbours and the original inhabitanst of their country. Israel and USA should be placed under UN control and sanctions but that obviously is not going to happen.
Holocaust is in the center of the political influence and might of the Zionist elite. If proven a lie the Zionist mafia would lose their most powerful political weapon among other nations.

TrevorsDen

Is the Speccy really giving publicity to a lunatic holocaust denier?

Cynic

For me the most significant part of Westerwelle's statement was this: "An erosion of the eurozone would jeopardise Europe as a political project, and with it the chance to make our values and interests be heard in the new power set-up of the 21st century." Without the euro, there would be no federal states of Europe and Germany would not be able to make its values and interests heard in (newspeak for control) the new power set up. It's the closest I've seen anyone come to admitting the true aim. Since the whole EU project is so undemocratic, this is the very antithesis of being in the UK's interests. We need to be out NOW!

Cynic

Perhaps Cameron has taken a copy of the Recruiting Officer with him:

Courage, boys, 'tis one to ten,
But we return all gentlemen
All gentlemen as well as they,
Over the hills and far away.
Over the Hills and O'er the Main,
To Flanders, Portugal and Spain,
The queen commands and we'll obey
Over the Hills and far away.

Kingstonian

Patriccia Shaw - is that you posting under another non de plume, Markku Kallio?

Alex

1. "Give us more control and we'll make Europe rich and successful."
.......
2. "Oh dear, unfortunately we seem to have made a complete hash of everything, wasted billions and destroyed jobs. Still ......" (Go to step 1).

Repeat for as long as people fall for it.

Clear Memories

"'The eurozone is the economic backbone of the European Union"

Sorry, but we know through bitter experience twice the last Century that anything involving France has no backbone and anything where the Germans start calling the shots ends in war.

They've made one veiled threat already. Time to fetch the boys home and leave the Obamessiah to clean up Bush and Blairs mess by himself.

Cynic

I nominate wrinkled weasel for the most prescient post. He predicted that there would be a fudge so that no referendum could be held in the UK and lo! Merkel admits that the treaties will be tweaked in such a way, and only refering to the EZ, that no referendum will be triggered here, although we will be affected, and few referenda will be necessary in the EU generally. Give the man a coconut! The EU doesn't do democracy. Remember, Arbeit macht frei!

Archie

I see that al-Beeb is spinning all this to-ing and fro-ing as "Cameron dictating to the EU", if you please! Anyone else wish that there might be a scintilla of truth in this?

fergus pickering

Ah Markku, I'd heard about the Finnish Nationalists. Are you one of those?

Trevorsden, people should be free to deny the holocaust, indeed they should be free to deny that the sun rises in the morning. Do you wish us to be censors of freedom like the ghastly apparatchiks of the EU?

gina dean

How can our politicians be so naive to allow us to sleepwalk into this situation. They do not seem to be looking after this country of ours, but bowing to outside influence. It is time that they took control here, ALL WE SEEM TO HEAR FROM THEM IS HOW MUCH TRADE WE DO WITH THE EU. Any country that trades with us is not going to cut us off if we get out of the Eurozone. We need to be trading with everyone of the world. This will be our salvation. Please please give us a referendum so that we can ditch this undemorcratic bloated EU. Those polititions who wish us to stay all seem to have pensions from there time over there, and would slip off the gravy train if we left.