The Gospel according to Delors

Rhoda Klapp

Again one yearns for the view of DK, but in the absence of that erudition one might observe that if you interview and old retired politician, one will always inevitably and every time learn that his legacy has been squandered by his successors, that nobody ever saw things quite as clearly as he did, but things were not implemented quite as he recommended, and that the current lot are a bunch of tossers.

Publius

David - typos

*adversary* not advisory?
more to Europe *than* money?

fergus pickering

So Delors knew it was all going pearshaped but didn't think it was his place to say. Up yours, Delors, and somebody said somewhere.

whatawaste

Delors blames the politicians for not implementing the Euro according to the rules that were set out - and in he is correct in this. But equally blame can be laid at the MSM which slavishly endorsed the project without question. Any person that did stand up to be counted were labelled as mad delusional eurosceptics such was the hysteria at the time.

Heartless (Romantic) Curmudgeon

WRETCH!! - and probably another idol to which the H2B bends the knee.

Mirtha Tidville

If Delors and his ilk had kept their crackpot theories to themselves, Europe would not be in the mess it is today

Publius

Reminds me of the reasons that used to be advanced for why communism didn't work.

Simon Stephenson.

More typos

"capacity for" not "capacity for capacity for"?

"such as closer union and structural reform"?

salieri

The only surprise is that he didn't use that gloriously self-exculpatory passive, "mistakes were made".

And well said, Rhoda: where is DK when you need him and his depth of analysis, breadth of experience and scintillating wit?

David Blackburn

Publius and Simon Stephenson,

Thanks for pointing those out. I've corrected them.

Kevin Kearney

Dr North's comment in the blog eureferendumblogspot.com puts things much better than I could. Well worth a read.

Jeremy

David Blackburn:

"Europe’s economic decline, its political malaise, its entrenched social and employment crises, its simmering cultural and racial tensions – all lurk beneath the spectacle of the Eurozone crisis."

A malaise of this sort is essentially a state of mind. One can be talked into it, and one can be talked out of it. Europe, as you indicate, has been talking itself into the malaise for a very long time.

So far as Britain is concerned, I would say that it is our entrenched political and cultural classes which have long since been in the grip of this malaise - and the Euro-fetishism which appears to go with it - rather than the people. But unfortunately, the people are neither trusted nor represented by them - least of all on the subject of Europe.

As for Houellebecq, I would say this. The opinion of a novelist or a painter is worth no more, and no less, than anybody else's. For this reason, it is absurd to give these people some kind of totemic status and authority when it comes to telling us about ourselves. And gathering around them for this purpose - or to this end - is a sign of cultural, emotional and intellectual insecurity. Rather, one should develop and listen to one's own process.

wrinkled weasel

I am not sure that Moore's interview has much heuristic value. It's a collection of soundbites that Moore fails to explore or question. The interview comes across as the desultory ramblings of an old man.

There is however no doubt that Delors is anti-democratic. Appears unconcerned by un-elected leaders being parachuted in and he clearly favours a solution which denies voters any say in the matter: “either to accept a greater transfer of sovereignty or to submit to a common discipline”.

How this affects Britain is going to be predicated upon a worrying trend in British politics; that of ignoring electoral promises and making far-reaching decisions which had no electoral mandate. This began with Tony Blair and our current PM liked the idea and has carried it on.

The next thing we hear, by the way, is that the eye-watering waste of money, emanating from the DFID is going to be enshrined in law. We learn that Cameron will need the support of Labour to commit spending on overseas aid to an act of Parliament.

By degrees the will of the people, and in particular the will of the English, The Welsh and the Scottish is being ignored. Any attempt at being truly independent seems to end in the suppression of regional culture and society, either by giving up on nationalism by staying part of the UK or by achieving independence, only to be consigned to joining the Euro.

This may seem a bit left-field, but all eyes should be on Alex Salmond as he attempts to pursuade the Scots to become independent whilst at the same time, joining the Euro, which is his current plan.
The Scots have no appetite for this, not surprisingly, and it is of interest to me how this very clever politician will square the circle. If he does, what we might see is a model for being with Europe, but not in it.

Cogito Ergosum

It could be argued that Europe started to go downhill when that French lefty, Delors, was put in charge of it.

In2minds

@Rhoda Klapp - "Again one yearns for the view of DK"

I think you will find DK told Delors what to say so all is well.

Ghengis

And this is the Gospel according to me

British Commonwealth, is an intergovernmental organisation of fifty-four independent member states. All but two of these countries (Mozambique and Rwanda) were formerly part of the British Empire, out of which it developed.

The member states cooperate within a framework of common values and goals as outlined in the Singapore Declaration. These include the promotion of democracy, human rights, good governance, the rule of law, individual liberty, egalitarianism, free trade, multilateralism, and world peace.[1] The Commonwealth is not a political union, but an intergovernmental organisation through which countries with diverse social, political, and economic backgrounds are regarded as equal in status.

Activities of the Commonwealth are carried out through the permanent Commonwealth Secretariat, headed by the Secretary-General, and biennial meetings between Commonwealth Heads of Government. The symbol of their free association is the Head of the Commonwealth, which is a ceremonial position currently held by Queen Elizabeth II. Elizabeth II is also monarch, separately and independently, of sixteen Commonwealth members, which are known as the "Commonwealth realms".

The Commonwealth is a forum for a number of non-governmental organisations, collectively known as the Commonwealth Family, which are fostered through the intergovernmental Commonwealth Foundation. The Commonwealth Games, the Commonwealth's most visible activity,[2] are a product of one of these organisations. These organisations strengthen the shared culture of the Commonwealth, which extends through common sports, literary heritage, and political and legal practices.[3] Due to this, Commonwealth countries are not considered to be "foreign" to one another.[4] Reflecting this, diplomatic missions between Commonwealth countries are designated as High Commissions rather than embassies.

Ghengis

And this is the gospel according to me.

The Commonwealth of Nations, normally referred to as the Commonwealth and formerly known as the British Commonwealth, is an intergovernmental organisation of fifty-four independent member states. All but two of these countries (Mozambique and Rwanda) were formerly part of the British Empire, out of which it developed.

The member states cooperate within a framework of common values and goals as outlined in the Singapore Declaration. These include the promotion of democracy, human rights, good governance, the rule of law, individual liberty, egalitarianism, free trade, multilateralism, and world peace.[1] The Commonwealth is not a political union, but an intergovernmental organisation through which countries with diverse social, political, and economic backgrounds are regarded as equal in status.

Activities of the Commonwealth are carried out through the permanent Commonwealth Secretariat, headed by the Secretary-General, and biennial meetings between Commonwealth Heads of Government. The symbol of their free association is the Head of the Commonwealth, which is a ceremonial position currently held by Queen Elizabeth II. Elizabeth II is also monarch, separately and independently, of sixteen Commonwealth members, which are known as the "Commonwealth realms".

The Commonwealth is a forum for a number of non-governmental organisations, collectively known as the Commonwealth Family, which are fostered through the intergovernmental Commonwealth Foundation. The Commonwealth Games, the Commonwealth's most visible activity,[2] are a product of one of these organisations. These organisations strengthen the shared culture of the Commonwealth, which extends through common sports, literary heritage, and political and legal practices.[3] Due to this, Commonwealth countries are not considered to be "foreign" to one another.[4] Reflecting this, diplomatic missions between Commonwealth countries are designated as High Commissions rather than embassies.

Ghengis

My mistake I entered my post twice - on reflection I do not apologise, Its well worth reading twice.

Dimoto

The French persist with the strange notion that they can have a "fiscal union" whilst preserving their own freedom of action, AND somehow controlling a rampant mercantilist Germany !

Who will save the French from themselves this time ?

salieri

Ghenghis,

Sorry to disagree but I don't think it is worth reading twice, or at all. Your 'gospel' is apparently lifted from some database, even including the absent footnotes, and is semi-literate ("Due to this, Commonwealth countries are not considered to be 'foreign' to one another").

More to the point, what on earth have definitions of the British Commonwealth got to do with the socialist dictatorship of Europe? Were you trying to make some clever point about the similarities? If so, your point needs development, not cyber-definitions.

Walter Ellis

Good piece, David. There is so much wrong in Europe and the world that it's hard to know where to begin. But if the so-called "titans" were back in charge, I doubt we'd be any better off. They created the crazy structures that subsequently fell apart – and if I remember rightly, we used to ridicule them at the time.

By the by, I'm sure this is sad, but I don't know who DK is.

Simon Stephenson.

Dimoto : 1.24pm

"Who will save the French from themselves this time ?"

One of André Maginot's descendents, perhaps?

Michael Roberts

Walter Ellis:
Yes, I'd been wondering that, but didn't want to show my ignorance. First thought was DSK, but couldn't think what serial shagging would have to do with it.

Andy Leeds

Years ago I saw an interview with Barbara Castle. The interviewer produced some articles Castle had written in the 1930s about Stalin's Russia. Even then, shortly before she died, Castle could not admit that what she had written was utter nonsense. She couldn't say 'Yes, I was wrong'. Delors is no different, still peddling the same old deluded rubbish. Monetary Union is completely wrong and no amount of 'tinkering' is going to alter that basic fact. It is gradually destroying the economies of places like Greece and Spain' has stagnated the Italian economy etc. It is a disaster for peace, prosperity and democracy in Europe.

Ghengis

salieri: I do not profess to have written the description of the Commonwealth agreement as laid out so clearly by wickypedia. In common with most dictionaries its aim is to inform not demonstrate how entertaining it can be. Anyhow, you seem to have understood that the terms of the Commonwealth treaty have not yet been cancelled in favour of us becoming part of a new super state called Europe governed by apparatchiks.

Augustus

The fundamental reason why France’s President De Gaulle kept Britain out of the EEC during the 1960s was his concern to have the financial arrangement for the Common Agricultural Policy established first, whereby the EEC as a whole underwrote high subsidies for French farmers, who in 1961 still accounted for a quarter of France’s employment.

Behind the lofty ideals of supranationalism, evoking an image of Commissoners sitting like Plato’s Guardians, guiding the affairs of Europe on some rarefied plane far above the petty egotisms and rivalries of mere nation states, the project Monnet, Delors et al, which progressed became a vast, ramshackle, self-deluding monster, partly suffocating in its own bureaucracy, partly a corrupt racket, providing endless opportunities for individuals and collectives to outwit and exploit their fellow men. And partly a mighty engine for promoting the national interests of those countries who knew how to work the system, among whom the Irish and the Spanish have done better than most, but of whom France was the unrivalled master. The one thing above all the project could never be, because by definition it had never been intended to be, was in the remotest sense democratic.

anne allan

I've just been rewatching 'Downfall'.
Delors has obviously been let down by his generals.
Does he have a personal bunker in a swish Paris district? Decorated in Louis Quinze, I would imagine.

Ghengis

To all posters-there are those amongst us who are incapable of reading correctly the initials/letters I prefer to use when posting. Careless and in the majority of instances leading to incorrect conclusions.

michael

Another little green amphibian on sejour, a short hop and feathered nest landing from the interstellar 'lune' lagoon...
To say "Pas moi Gov" wishing us "Bon chance et au revoir".