Forget the Brussels Summit — here’s how Cameron could challenge EU power at home

Frank P

Sounds like jacks for openers. But we all know who holds the trumps and the marked aces.

daniel maris

What a load of costly nonsense. I thought the TPA was supposed to be the taxpayer's friend. But it seems they want us to engage expensive consultants (them? their mates?), risk huge EU fines, and add massively to the Civil Service paper budget.

Have you been taken over by this chancers' league - I mean the Tax Payers' Alliance. I think we are all familiar with their type from the world of work - glib purveyors of "simple" solutions which actually create administrative chaos and undermine morale.

David Smith

Ultimately, Parliament is Sovereign. EU Law is only UK Law because Parliament says it should be. If Parliament says it will no longer allow EU Laws to be agreed to via secondary legislation we can. Negotiating is just about maintaining good relations with other nations. We can unilaterally do what ever we want and it is increasingly time to do so.

In2minds

"Forget the Brussels Summit" - Forget the six things on the list, brave Dave is not about to rock the boat at home or away.

Rhoda Klapp

What is missing is not the way to change our relationship with the EU, but the will to do so. Perhaps this is an attempt by the TPA to call the bluff of those who say we must put up with everything which comes from the EU, but more likely it is merely a naive bit of wishful thinking. Because Cameron does not want to do it.

sandy

I am a TPA fan but your point no.4 betrays a lack of understanding of how "gold- plating" works in practice.

In my experience,the regulations,as written,do mostly adhere to the basic text.

The "gold-plating" arises in the interpretation of the text.

Much EU law ,like much UK law,leaves many crucial points open to more than one different interpretation.

Many of us in business know to our cost that our officials,at the local level,very often choose the most onerous interpretation(for us),possible.

This comes from a certain mindset and changing that mindset is what is required, more than anything,if this particular problem is to be addressed

Perry, a Heartless Curmudgeon

Whether or not the above are costly, impractical or whatever, EVERY regulation from the EUSSR should be challenged at source, blocked, - and turned back, - in the same wise as a border guard should block an unwelcome visitor.

Impractical?

Then how did we manage before the parasitic cancer of the EUSSR gained entry to the UK body?

The EUSSR and its works should be challenged and fought in every manisfestation, - as should the PC-jobsworth legacy of the Hero of the H2B.

Which reminds me ...

James

We could just ignore the bits we don't like.

It works for everyone else, doesn't it?

Mr L

Another point needs to be added: reform the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, which is full of EU fellow-travellers.

JohnPage

Does the Danish parliament not have to approve their government's EU positions in advance?

Why not ours?

Tiberius

I agree with sandy, but anyway none of those measures would be sufficient to satisfy many of those who want us out of the EU. For them, it is an aesthetic, not a practical issue.

David Lindsay

We do not need a costly referendum or a never-ending renegotiation. We need all three main political parties, or failing that the Official Opposition alone, to bring forward at the earliest opportunity legislation with five simple clauses.

First, the restoration of the supremacy of British over EU law, and its use to repatriate agricultural policy and to restore our historic fishing rights (200 miles or to the median line) in accordance with international law. Secondly, the requirement that, in order to have any effect in the United Kingdom, all EU law pass through both Houses of Parliament as if it had originated in one or other of them. Thirdly, the requirement that British Ministers adopt the show-stopping Empty Chair Policy until such time as the Council of Ministers meets in public and publishes an Official Report akin to Hansard. Fourthly, the disapplication in the United Kingdom of any ruling of the European Court of Justice or of the European Court of Human Rights unless confirmed by a resolution of the House of Commons, the High Court of Parliament.

And fifthly, the disapplication in the United Kingdom of anything passed by the European Parliament but not by the majority of those MEPs certified as politically acceptable by one or more seat-taking members of the House of Commons. Thus, we would no longer be subject to the legislative will of Stalinists and Trotskyists, neo-Fascists and neo-Nazis, members of Eastern Europe’s kleptomaniac nomenklatura, neoconservatives such as now run France and Germany, people who believe the Provisional Army Council to be the sovereign body throughout Ireland, or Dutch ultra-Calvinists who will not have women candidates. Soon to be joined by Turkey’s Islamists, secular ultranationalists, and violent Kurdish Marxist separatists.

David Dee

Six examples of utter rubbish. Since when did you start to use Mickey Mouse as a source for your information ????

Dennis Churchill

This is what is needed.
It should have been done years’ ago but too many powerful interests groups would never have allowed it.
They are now on their heels: time to push. The public still needs educating in order to counter the propaganda they have been subjected to.
The BBC is our greatest threat together with the smaller broadcasters who dance to their tune.
All these years and no official cost benefit analyses: I wonder why?

London Calling

1. Decipher the consequences of a Fiscal Union that currently has no form or shape.

2. Be prepared for one body, seven heads and two tongues.

3. Rescue the people of Europe, not the ever tightening Rope.

4. Do nothing.

5. Say nothing.

6. Act…

Verity

David Smith 6:32 pm -- Agreed. It is not legalities, but the lack of will.

Why do Dave Blancmange pretend otherwise. Why are he and his group intent on selling their fellow citzens down the river? Could it be that they seek preferment in Brussels, once they have served their apprenticeship in governing in Britain?

I find it hard to post mentioning Dave without adding how much I loathe him and wish him ill.

Paul Hughes

This is all starting to sound eerily familiar. Are we back in 1527 with Henry VIII being advised by all and sundry how he could apply pressure to(the treaty of)Rome?

It all ended horribly back then with burnings and the Pilgrimage of Grace. Let's hope some modern day Cromwells (Thomas) and Cranmers can arise to encourage our present day "leaders" to make a cleaner break of it all.

We might as well just face it: we're simply not of a nature to accept the benign suzerainty ("benign" is a charitable interpretation)of an alien power.

The modern day five solas:

1. One single parliament cannot bind its successors.

2. The power of a parliament is entrusted to it by the people.

3. Sovereignty cannot be alienated by Parliament to a foreign power.

4. The EU is a foreign power to which no parliament is subordinate.

5. Our present subjugation to the EU is in conflict with solas 1-4.

Make the break with Rome!

WIlliam Blakes Ghost

They all sound very sensible suggestions but how are we going to keep the Europhiliacs from delivering their usual lies, propaganda and misinformation.

Could Cameron seriously hope to keep the likes of Clarke and the yellow bastards out of the mix (let alone anyone directly associated with the Brussels gravy train of corruption)and if he cant the whole thing would be immediately tainted.

Fernando

I thought we were trying to cut spending. This list of reviews and analyses, involving well-paid economists from the think tanks, and extra scrutiny of EU regulations by MPs who already allow plenty of poorly-drafted UK laws onto the statute book, is just the sort of expensive nonsense we’ve come to expect from the anti-EU fanatics.
This phrase about our gold-plating of regulations is often made. Can someone provide a few examples?
If they want an economic assessment of our membership of the EU, why not commission one and pay for it themselves. While they fantasise about life in a kind of solitary confinement for Britain, the rest of us hope Cameron is successful in defending British interests and can contribute to keeping out EU partners from slipping into recession.

Cjamesk

"Another point needs to be added: reform the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, which is full of EU fellow-travellers."

Absolutely correct! The elephant in the room, it's like a fifth column no word of a lie. Massive reform and more light needs to be shed on this department.

Walter Ellis

When I was a young reporter covering Brussels for the first time, back in the 1970s, I remember how isolated Britain was and how out of place Harold Wilson and James Callaghan appeared. The same was true, with knobs on, during the Thatcher years. Even Tony Blair, while affecting to take Britain to the "heart of Europe," always sounded as if he would rather be in Washington.

Now, under David Cameron, we read of the Prime Minister cutting a lonely figure, trying to negotiate a deal different to the one that everyone else is there for. As someone apparently remarked, he was like a man who had gone to a wife-swapping party without his wife.

Why can't Britain ever want the same things as its neighbours? What is missing in the British psyche? If it was even the case that the UK was rich and powerful and didn't wish to give this up for the mess of potage that was Europe, I'd understand. But the reality is that British prime ministers always seem like the jester at the banquet, capering inconsequentially, poking fun at their betters while never getting any serious work done. Nor do they ever seem to have any money.

We need a referendum on the UK's continued membership of the EU. Britain has to make up its mind once and for all, not just for its own sake, but for the sake of the European Union. Let's do it.

Oh, and by the way, if England votes to leave Europe, don't expect the Scots to follow its example. The United Kingdom will lose not once, but twice, from its folly.

alex

Mr Hughes above is quite right. A modern Cromwell is whats called for. Here is the hour, where is the man?

daniel maris

It's typical of the Tax Payers Alliance to come out with self-serving half baked ideas.

There is a clear cut choice:-

1. Get out of the EU and sign up for the EEA which allows us to trade freely with the EU, but to retain our sovereignty as does Norway.

2. Continue the policy of "muddle through" which has really been the government policy since Major. We have little influence but we try to do the minimum in terms of signing up for the EU project. It allows us us to reconcile the deep divisions in public opinion over Europe.

3. Become enthusiastic EU members - join the Euro and help make it a success. And perhaps try to democratise EU institutions, knowing that we are part of a project to create a new superstate.

All three have their merits. But the fantasy offered by the useless Tax Payers Alliance is really too pathetic to deserve serious consideration. It offers nothing except additional unnecessary public expenditure.

Frank P

Can't we exist as an Anglosphere? Fuck Europe and its gabble and treachery and bureaucratic backstabbing. Once the Septics get rid of Omama we should start again with them, Canada the Ozzies and NZ's. Africa is a shit heap. Let it go. - let the Chinks have it an see how they fare with the liability.

As for the ME? Let Krapski run it, he seems to know all the answers.

It's very late....... Nurse!

Kevin

Modern English politics is like English team sports. The sole ambition of management and players seems to be to get to the top of the national game - just to be in the England team - with the mere purpose of lording this position over one's neighbours.

There does not seem to be any ambition to actually excel on the world stage - to win the cup. Consequently, when their perceived betters take to the field, whether it be Brazil in football, New Zealand in rugby, or France, Germany and the USA in politics, they choke, and let the other team do what they want with the ball.

Still, the money is great, and the fans appear to love them.

Rhoda Klapp

Walter, you will need to explain the appeal a little better. What is so good about the undemocratic unelectable unreformable mess? And incidentally what is the logic of wanting what the neighbours want? France wants its farmers looking after, Germany wants to sell cars, so we have to sell our fishermen down the river? Why cannot we each want what we want? Everybody has an agenda. That is a universal observation. Now, please explain what's so good about the EU, as it is now, mot as some idealistic dream would have it.

Mark Edinburgh

Regarding "gold plating"

The "3rd package" of the EU Energy Directive has just (November) passed parliament.

Britain is the first to implement this Directive (why when we don't even know what other major EU states are doing?) and needless to say it has been gold plated to the detriment of the UK energy industry.

One of the reasons this has happened is that the details are in the hands of regulator OFGEM. Such regulators exist to gold plate regulate and much of the market implementation of such EU directives are in the hands of these quangos rather than ministry civil servants.

michael

Pie in the sky ... something to keep the pigs airborne.

Snowman

Walter Ellis, good stuff except that if we did have a referendum on in-out, the unwashed would vote for in (having been told out meant fewer jobs, costlier mortgages, less investment here), the Euro scepticism would not die.