The sort of influence we can live without

toco

I cannot conceive of any reason for the UK to join or indeed prop-up a doomed currency.The Euro project has failed simply because it is built on rotten foundations.When Sarko is replaced France's new government will begin to realise taking orders from Brussels does not suit their book.Presumably the next summit will show the 'accord' to be no more than the total farce it represents.Mix 17 toxic chemicals together if you wish but do not expect anything other than a stink bomb.

Russell

First step after leaving the EU should be to blow up the channel tunnel and immediately stop a few thousand illegal immigrants entering the UK, deploy the tunnel Immigration staff at our ports and airports.
Introduce visas for all visitors a la USA and Australia/Canada and all other sensible countries in the world.
We want bone fide business people, not illegal immigrants and phoney asylum seekers, let France and the rest of the EU keep the tide of Middle East and African refugees, whilst we get our country sorted out.

Rosie

The people who seem to have influenced this monumental decision are the denizens of the City of London.

We seem to have cratered into the abyss for them.

My problem is - what on earth have they done for us? Taxpayers' money is keeping them afloat - and they have drained most of our personal portfolios. So what are they offering us in return for our splendid isolation? Wish someone would tell me.

Tiberius

You cannot have influence in a scenario where the maxim "blood is thicker than water" operates. As the years have gone by, the EU has very much treated the UK as an occasional draught of financial H2O, rather than a member of the family circle.

But both do need the other for commercial reasons.

barbara daniels

David Cameron's courageous stand this week in Brussels reminds me of the Churchillian phrase that this may not be the end but it is the beginning of the end of our ceding powers to Brussels

Stephen Gorman

This decision from a British PM is long overdue and very welcome. The EU has long since ceased to be relevant to a majority of its citizens. It is a high-cost club most of its members can no longer afford. We will now see how they get on without us and, if we decide to leave, I think we will be pleasantly surprised how well we perform without the dead-hand of never-ending and pointless bureaucracy. Well done DC.

jheath

Are these pro-euro people totally illiterate economically?

So Germany makes good profits selling to Club Med, but then those profits are passed back as low cost credit to Club Med countries, creating a property and infrastructure boom - that cannot be paid for. So all Germany's effort is wasted (see Bogenberger declaration)as it had low growth. And now the debts cannot be paid.

Spain runs a budget surplus and has low government debts (relative to Germany - see WSJ yesterday - and certainly to the profligate UK) but now has to undertake an austerity programme to meet German rules, making its problem even worse.

Why on earth would Germany or Spain want to keep to this wretched currency experiment, let alone the UK join? They both need to get out and do a one-off adjustment.

Holly ......

NOW WE HAVE INFLUENCE!!

After being kicked up the backside for decades,told to shut up & stop interfering, we have FINALLY have stood up and said...
Take us seriously and not for granted, or we'll 'kick you in the teeth'.
Well it was a Lib Dem who said the last bit, but it's not what you say you are going to do that matters, it is what you do.

strapworld

I am a reasonable person but I do think it is time that Clarke, Heseltine, the Kinnock family, Brittan, Clegg and all his party, Patten, the ridiculous John Stevens, Milliband, everyone in the BBC (yes including Bruce Forsyth) and all the other self serving people who put the EU and Euro before British interests should be stripped of their citizenship and of all titles . Their properties and bank accounts taken by the exchequer and they be sent to live in exile in any EU Country that will have them.

Can I have a seconder please.

Steve Cass

"Personally, I have always been slightly suspicious of the use of the word ‘influence’ in the European context. All too often, Britain’s influence seems to depend on never actually using it."
Quite so. Any intelligent person would realise that if the only way to have influence and show strength is to agree to do whatever you're told, the truth is you have NO strength and NO influence. In which case you may as well do what you think is right rather than using weasel-words to pretend you are strong and influential when all you are doing is kow-towing to France & Germany because you're afraid not to.

Colin

@ Rosie 4:28pm

"Wish someone would tell me"

I think, Rosie, if they told you, it would be way beyond your comprehension. Best leave it at that.

fergus pickering

Because, Rosie, the City represents 10% of our GNP, or so I am told. And lots of people work for it, ordinary people, Rosie. Have you got it?

Augustus

It's simply a case of better out than in, for economic as well as party political reasons. Let the Eurozone have as many 'fiscal compacts' as they like. Sarkozy will probably be gone next May anyway, so good riddance for his obvious desire to hit the City. And the eighteen month Eurozone's handling of its own crisis has been shambolic, with the worst features of the EU laid bare. Where is the accountability? Where, in heaven's name, is the democracy worthy of the name? The post-war founding fathers may have had good intentions, but now the world outside seems to have a fresher air than this dragon's carcass.

Tom Pride

Lord Heseltine – wheeled out again by the BBC on the early evening BBC 1 news bulletin, but, I note a certain calming down in the “isolation!”, “we’re all going to die!” hysteria. The darlings keep leading on the Moscow protests – this couldn’t be some kind of bitchy spite directed against Russia Today (Freeview Channel 85) which is mature enough to lead impartially on the protests itself and is showing up the BBC as a bunch of partial amateurs pitching at the lowest common denominator?

Heartless P.

It's the sort of influence the weasel exerts on its rabbit!

And we can do without it!

For far too long significant British politicos have been captivated by the weasel words of the woe-begotten EUSSR politburo.

Time now to continue the work begun by the H2B finally being forced to do something positive.

Tarka the Rotter

Anyone considering the possibility it might all be smoke and mirrors?

Russell

Unfortunately wring to my MP is a waste of time as he is a dyed in the wool LibDem, outside of the coalition government, and only interested in the EU ahead of the UK.

After trying several conservative MP's but being unable to contact them as I am 'not in their constituency' (which is a standard line used by most MP's), I used the N0. 10 website and urge others to do the same.

Bill Rees

What do we mean by 'influence' in Europe?
Under a system of majority voting it appears to mean that we are just one of 27 nations that can offer an opinion on proposed legislation. But if we don't like the final result we can't do much about it.
On the other hand, the right to veto something gives you power, rather than influence, and Cameron has just exercised the power to say no.
Since we entered the EU almost 40 years ago, how far has our 'influence' got us?
We have had a load of legislation foisted upon us that a majority in this country probably didn't want.
We have had power leaving London and heading to Brussels. And how many European institutions have their HQs in Britain? Can anyone name any.
We seem to have signed up to a highly centralised political body that sucks power form the margins (of which we are one) to the centre.
If we have influence, you might think there were some positive results from having it.
But where are they?

RKing

I just don't get this constant drivel we get about Britain not having any influence. What good is it to be in charge of a sinking ship?
It will sink regardless of the amount of influence you have over it.

Gaelforce9

strapworld - seconded.

bojimbo

Sarky and Merkey wanted Britain in so they didn't have to delve into their US $ so quickly .

fergus pickering

Gaelforce beat me to it.

Malfleur

Lord Tebbit succinctly sticks it to Michael Heseltine:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100123149/michael-heseltine-thinks-hes-infallible-but-hes-plain-wrong-about-churchill-and-europe/

Mr L

Strapworld speaks for me too. Please, someone, tell the BBC. Stephanie Flanders on Newsnight very nearly asked 'how could he do this?' I thought Bernard Jenkin should have said to his spluttering Lib Dem opponent, who was given endless rope by S Flanders: 'So you're in favour of a sell-out, then?'

tj59sixty

I hear the printing presses are going like the clappers,in paris and berlin,printing up new editions of the old currencies.EUs last hurrar methinks.

libertarian

@Rosie

You mean apart from employing nearly 5 million people in financial services, producing 10% of total GDP, being the 3rd largest sector in the UK economy and producing tax revenues of £60 billion, you mean apart from that what have they ever done for us!!!

Cynic

I don't see that we've lost "influence" because we never had any. We have always been one against the rest for many different reasons, not least our culture being different from that of continental Europe. We're probably in a better position to influence events now than we've ever been, simply because having wielded the veto once, we can do it again and really put a spanner in the works. The rest of the EU have always seen us as the awkward squad. Now they realise we actually have teeth and are prepared to use them.

Roy

Big is not always beautiful! How many brilliantly prosperous small nations in the world do very well thank you. There is no reason why Britain should not prosper out of it all. Couldn't do any worse could we?

AndyinBrum

I liked the "left behind, like someone who missed getting on the Titanic" line