The coalition's latest anxiety attack

Paul Danon

The Liberals could insist that, if Mr Cameron does not call a referendum on his use of the veto, they will break the coalition.

Rhoda Klapp

Will Cable quit? Or will he adopt the cowardly device of speaking out against a government he is part of? Either way, I hope no peerage is forthcoming.

Rhys

On a point of information really ( something I have been unable to ascertain from much online and Sat. newspaper searching ) :

1] What exactly is it ; what specific measures will the Euro 17 /26 now be UNable to enact or undertake in consequence of Mr Cameron's not having agreed to them so doing ?
2] How if at all does that:

[a] disadvantage the Euro 17 /26 ?

[b] advantage or disadvantage the UK ?

3]] What bad stuff will now not happen to the UK which would or might have happened, had Mr Cameron agreed on Thursday to whatever it is the Euro 17 /26 wanted him to agree to ?

Frank P

He doesn't have to 'put up' with anything. It has created a window of opportunity for the conservative party to win an election by a landslide if he gets the referendum questions right - that must be firm part of the manifesto this time. Strike while the iron is hot. Get rid of the parasites within this administration. And I would include Ken Clarke under that label. Fuck the European political project - it has proved to be an impossible dream and those of us who said so at the outset have been proved right in spades - pardon the expression. Not only that I suggest everybody boycotts French wine from this day forward. There's plenty of good Australian stuff available.

Heartless Curmudgeon

Let the sinking rats leave the Good Ship Britannia, - and Good Riddance to them.

Forming an orderly queue is probably beyond them, - so ... overboard the lot of you jumped-up little opportunistic jerks.

strapworld

This ridiculous man Clegg, Who in his first public interview after the event, fully supported Cameron. Then we have the leaked suggestions from 'friends' that Clegg was very angry. In his interview this morning I got no impression of anger just a very poor attempt to suck up to the other Lib Dem MP's and MEP's who are stirring the pot.

What this proves is that the Lib Dems are a group of people totally unfit for public office. How can they be shown any kind of loyalty by Cameron now. But I bet they will be. Cameron has found himself in a place he had no idea he would be. He is desperate to get back into bed with his European pals. The fact that he was NOT going to ask to repatriate powers back to this Country and the fight for the City was not as we were informed by him, is proof to me that we will all have to watch him like a hawk. One day soon he will try to sell us down the river. Be careful people, do not get too excited. I believe we are dealing with a man with no scruples at all.

It should be easy to throw both the Labour Party and Liberal Democrats into a massive panic by threatening to call a general election or they support a IN or OUT of the EU referendum to get the support of the people for the way ahead.

Cameron will never take that path and we all know why.

John Wilkes

As someone who thought that the coalition was a "good thing" and that there was an instinctive fit between some aspects of the Liberal Democrats and the then prospective Conservative government I am now horrified by what is being dished up by the Liberal Democrats. What did they think was going to happen at the Summit? Why did Clegg say what he said on Friday only to completely contradict himself over the rest of the weekend? Given that he is clearly bowing to pressures within his own party to say what he is now saying, it is pretty rich to imply weakness on the part of the Prime Minister in the face of the Conservatives. Please God that Vince Cable will use this as an excuse to leave as his whole approach to every issue (including Europe) seems designed to damage the interests of business. Huhne has been ominously silent, but perhaps he can't be heard over the crashing of wind turbines being knocked over by the winter breezes. All of it demonstrates what has become increasingly obvious, that the Lib Dems are unfit for government as wouldn't recognise collective responsibility if it was speeding down the motorway directly at them. What do they want - an election? I thought the most potent part of the Andrew Marr show was Nigel Farage gloating over UKIP's poll lead over the Lib Dems. Just the time for turkeys to be voting for an early Christmas.

Tom Pride

Cameron now has his thumb on Clegg’s jugular. No need to apply any hasty pressure. Better to play the Europhile fruitcakes at their own game – say one thing to them and do another. Use that Etonian charm, give them the platitudes and assurances they want to hear and then head off to Brussels and play it hard, forging a new relationship for the UK, in our interests. Eventually the Lib Dems might get upset enough to walk but then it will be them that walked not Cameron and them who will have to fight the Election on a “let’s give in to France and Germany and join the Euro” ticket. Sell that one down in the West Country.

And in the meantime, if that preposterous pompous portentous Cable goes, could he be persuaded to take Clarke and Heseltine along with him?

Mirtha Tidville

Strapworld encapsulates what this is all about.I agree with every word sir.....

I also think, as has been mentioned above, time for us to boycott everything French. Especially not hard if you have ever owned a French car!! plenty of alternatives.

Must say the thought of Vince quitting the cabinet is welcome hope indeed. Long overdue

Michael

Meanwhile, down in the small print, even the BBC has to admit:
"UK trade deficit narrows as exports hit a record"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16107949

J Wright

Vince Cable might resign. Please God he does .then lets have a minister who spends all his time destroying the crap thats stops small business producing growth.We have had a year of Wince the Whinger theatening Bankers .Typical LD wanker all talk and no action.

In2minds

It's all very well picking on Clegg (be my guest) but the blame rests with Cameron. For he decided to go into coalition with the Lib Dems so I'd kick his arse first.

Maggie

I've thought for some time that it feels like the AV referendum again. This time the people telling us, in advance of any vote, that "this is what the British people want" is the Tory right wing. I fervently hope that there is a silent majority of Tory MPs who will refuse to be bullied and will defect to the LibDems.

Axstane

I will look forward to Cable and Clarke leaving the Cabinet and hope that Huhne will be called on by the Essex Police quite soon.

In fact I don't at all mind a Geenral Election called for May 3rd.

William Blake's Ghost

This is the cruellest aspect of the Libdems. For anyone who spends anytime watching them it is clear they have only one motive for being in politics. They hunger after power and the benefits it brings them and them alone. Look at their track record?

They sit in opposition sanctimoniously preaching about the corruption of other parties whilst brazenly refusing to return what are potentially the proceeds of crime that were donated to them (£2 million).

They talk about improving democracy then create merry hell when they lose in the vote to change the voting system.

They talk about improving democracy and then block a referendum on the most important constitutional and now economic issue (whilst denying its importance) there is because they know they will lose and their party coffers will likely suffer.

They sponsor the provision of electoral petitions and then when they don't like the issues raised they u-turn on it.

They talk about democracy and localism and then worship at the alter of dictatorial centralism in Brussels (not to mention their preference for centralist voting systems).

They promise the world to students and then sell them out for a place at the top table.

Last but not least they hold the economic prosperity of this country to ransom time and again, first for a referendum on a 'measly little compromise' and then again and again every time they do not get their way.

I believe that the Brownites are the most despicable selfish self-serving mainstream politicians this country has experienced in my lifetime. The contempary parliamentary Libdem party come a close second.

The reason why people looking for a new politics are disillusioned is not because the Libdems have deserted that ground but because they only pretended to represent such views in the first place (they are after all as old as Parliamentary politics is as a party). The Libdems have always been as if not more dishonest, as if not more hypocritical and as if not more unworthy of the electorate than their two mainstream establishment peers. Thats why their vote share has halved or worse because in Government they couldn't pretend anymore!

whatawaste

Strapworld

Spot on. The left wing media (BBC, Guardian etc) are desperate to portray Cameron as a right wing Eurosceptic when we all know he would happily fall in line with Clege and Milipede over the EU. We are now in a very unsatisfactory position where battle lines have been drawn between the UK and Franco/german axis, but absolutely NOTHING has been done about the Euro debt crisis.

Julian F

Rhys at 12.33: The proposalas to amend Lisbon Treaty Article 136, which governs policy making for the Euro-area. However, there is a provision within Art. 136 that provides for the following: "to set out economic policy guidelines for them [Euro=area Member States], while ensuring that they are compatible with those adopted for the whole of the Union and are kept under surveillance."

The clear implication is that

London Calling

I’d rather be called a Glorious Bastard… than a traitorous one who stood by whilst Rome and Greece burnt and sovereign nations are stripped naked by a one size fits no one Euro and the unelected European Union…

The public support David Cameron, he is not alone and neither is Britain Isolated, other than by those who consider political gain and supporting a corrupt state more important than protecting the interest and sovereign right of ones people…

WIlliam Blakes Ghost

And if Cable's about to quit then good riddance (and are we sure he's not jumping before he's pushed?)!

We need a Business Secretary who is going to put together a plan for growth and make it succeed and not spend all his time obsessing about Rupert Murdoch and bankers past crimes or flirting with undercover journalists trying to prove how engorged his political appendages are.

Of all the ill-disciplined Libdem rabble in the Government, Cable has probably been the biggest failure.....

Julian F

Rhys at 12.33 - The vetoed proposal was to enhance Aticle 136 of the Lisbon Treaty, which governs economic policy amongst Euro-area Member States of the EU. But Art. 136 includes the following provision: "to set out economic policy guidelines for them, while ensuring that they are compatible with those adopted for the whole of the Union and are kept under surveillance."

Admittedly, this provision can be read in two ways, working from EU-wide policy to ensure consistent policy making within the Euro-area, or vice-versa. Europe being Europe, the effect would most probably be to ensure wider EU economic policy was "consistent" with the Euro-area rules. This would imply that signatories to such a treaty amendment would be subject to fiscal policy and financial regulation rules that were developed by the Euro-area Member States to suit their own purposes.

By vetoing the proposed treaty amendment, Cameron has averted this very real danger to our fiscal sovereignty and signalled an intention to maintain national control over financial sector regulations.

Mycroft

'As someone who thought that the coalition was a "good thing" and that there was an instinctive fit between some aspects of the Liberal Democrats and the then prospective Conservative government I am now horrified by what is being dished up by the Liberal Democrats.'

Same here, they don't seem to understand the meaning of collective responsisbility, ot of reciprocal loyalty, but alsways want to have their cake and eat it. If they're hated from the left, they're now quite as much hated by people of a more conservative disposition.

I can't see Clegg's present behaviour going down at all well here in the West Country, where UKIP get a massive vote in the European elections.

oldtimer

As a former MEP, Clegg is on the EU pension roll and, I believe, obligated to speak up in support of his paymaster and certainly not against it.

It would not surprise me if we later learn that he has been briefed by the Brussels EUligarchs in the interim on the line to take. There are now many in the UK establishment who are former MEPs, Commissioners and the like. They never declare their interest nor, it seems, are they obliged to do so by the Parliament where they now practise their EU propaganda.

Flip flops of this kind used to be a speciality of certain shop stewards of a left wing persuasion back in the 1970s. Remember Red Robbo? He was an arch practitioner of the flip flop from one day to another - usually after he got a different set of marching orders from his controller.

Rhys

So what can they [ the Euro 17 / 26 ] NOT now do as a consequence of Mr C's disagreement but which they would have done or liked to do had he but agreed ?

And what bad stuff for the City or wherever will not now happen whether now or in due course when the 17/26 do their 17/26 -y thang ?

Julian F

Rhys - they won't be able to impose fiscal rules or financial regulations on the UK through the workings of Article 136(b).

Russell

Mr Hoskin, you forgot to mention the Lord Oakshott show formerly known as Newsnight on Friday and the Lord Oakshott show on the former Politics show today.
These new format shows, where the pro EU guest gets uninterrupted time and is allowed to constantly interrupt the Conservative MP view, are at least consistent for the bbc with their pro Brown/Labour years.

Forget what the electorate think, just let the imbecile Oakshot ramble on and on and on.

We should have a joint referendum with both the EU and the BBC (in/out) on the paper.
Out of the £billions EU taxpayer contribution and out of the BBC licence fee payer contribution.
Sorted.

BigAl

Reasons to stay in Eu:

1. UK is only 1 of 2 who are net contributors to the Eu.
2. If UK leaves it will cost jobs.
3. If UK leaves the Eu will make it difficult to trade.
4. The Eu is stopping WW3.

Rhys

Thank you.
Well - I think the details / specifics should be more widely re'pandus........Certainly when Dimbleby was asking for similar hard facts from the Government minister on Friday night he just floundered and it was obvious he hadn't the faintest idea what was at stake.

Are you saying then, that the Regulations the City currently works under are entirely subject to national veto ? Not qualified majority voting ?

Duyfken

Is this not a defining moment for Cameron and one where he should be considering a Dissolution? Clegg and his tribe are on the back-foot and Labour are still in traction. Given the right and "Right" manifesto, Cameron might now draw back the apparent sizeable numbers of voters ready to defect to UKIP. There could not be a better time for a General Election - for the Tories. Just a few more snubs to Clegg & co should do the trick.

Rhys

Thinking further : why would they [ the 17 /26 ] even need or want to aspire to impose regs on the workings of the City or the Pound just in order to put the workings of the Euro in order ?

disenfranchised

an angry clegg poses as much threat as the proverbial ant walking up an elephant's back leg, etc.
as for boycotts, after much infuriation with my latest german motah, i was already on my way back to the japanese.
time to reappraise all our european purchases, methinks. after all, they need us more than we need them, although delurophiles will lie otherwise.....

Mycroft

'Thinking further : why would they [ the 17 /26 ] even need or want to aspire to impose regs on the workings of the City or the Pound just in order to put the workings of the Euro in order ?'

Not if it was a matter of rational economic planning. But politics and scapegoating aslo eneter into the matter. It would be very popular in many parts of Europe to cast much of the blame for the Euro fiasco on 'Anglo-Saxon' finacial markets, and use that treaty provision to puush forward regulations; furthermore, a tax on financial transactions, which would affect the UK disporportionately and threaten to push some financial business elsewhere, would be a tempting way for them to try to raise money in the present difficult circumstances. So Cameron has been absolutely right not to sign the UK into this treaty, when one take account of the fact the Britain clearly doesn't have sufficient 'influence' anyhow to prevent its vital interests being affected in this way. After all, if EU states were not planning to use the treaty provisions in a way that would affect the City, why would they not agree to the safeguards that Cameron asked for? He has been eminently reasonable all along in the manner of his negotiation, and the limited demands that he has being making (which have incurred him much abuse from his own side).

MajorFrustration

Both outbursts - Clegg and Cable deserve to be treated either - OK so resign and lets have an election or shout up and piss off to the back banches

Liz Brown

Who cared if the ghastly Cable quits - we might actually get a business friendly Business Secretary to replace him. But as with so much that the not so sainted one utters, I cannot see him actually forgoing the Minsiterial cars and other perks.............
As for Cleggover, like many others, I was happy at the prospect of the Coalition but sadly the limpdims have proven once again why they are unfit for office

Woody

If Vince Cable and Ken Clarke resign, then that will make my Christmas. Vince Cable in particular, is a drag anschor in the Business Dept.

He won't resign of course, he will just send out his personal spokesman, the odious Oakshott to fire his bullets for him.

What an idiot Oakshott looked on The Politics Show reading from his piece of paper. Even Jon Sopel chided him about it.

Nicholas

Whatever the pantaloon Pantsdown and the big girls blouse leading his party think the only bastards in the government are the dysfunctional Lib Dems. Neither fish but plenty foul.

Dennis Churchill

No they will not trigger an election that would defeat the primary purpose they had in agreeing to a coalition: to stop the Conservatives gaining a majority and calling a EU referendum.
You don’t think Clegg likes living here do you? All these “Brits”! He could be flying between Brussels and Spain.Afterall he is a multilingual Man About Europe.

Julian F

"Thinking further : why would they [ the 17 /26 ] even need or want to aspire to impose regs on the workings of the City or the Pound just in order to put the workings of the Euro in order ?"

To maintain competitiveness. If the Euro-area decides that it is necessary to raise corporate taxes or impose a "Tobin tax" in order to achieve deficit limits, for instance, it won't want countries on the periphery to become - by default - more competitive through lower or no such taxes. The proposed treaty changes amount to the start of a drive towards a common fiscal union that could have disastrous implications for the UK.

I agree Rhys that government ministers are not explaining this very well. I expect they are not familiar with the specifics. But Cameron din't just throw his toys out of the pram on Friday - he was being advised by diplomats whose job it is to know and understand these things.

I must admit I am not clear on the limits of our veto on fresh financial markets regulation. I will need to check. But just ask yourself why, if there was no threat to the City from the planned treaty change, was France so determined that safeguards for the City would not be built in?

The argument is not being conducted very illuminatingly - there is hysteria on both sides. But it is a very important debate for our national interest and I hope Cameron's statement to parliament tomorrow will make this clear.

TGF UKIP

"A house divided against itself cannot stand" and was ever a house so divided and full of mutual loathing (except of course from Dave, Loopy etc) as this one.

A PM and party leader of courage and conviction would be only too happy to use the situation as an election trigger but not only do those qualifications preclude Dave, but let's not forget he would also be terrified of winning an election and have to govern with only those dreadful Tory barstards.

Paddy Ashdown

Just for the record, and as you very well know, when I used the word "bastards" I made it clear that these were what John Major called them, not me! Criticise my position by all means - but to try to be honest about it. Padd

boudicca

John Wilkes
December 11th, 2011 12:40pm

I thought Nigel was very restrained on the Marr show.

We have every right to gloat. At the last GE we got 3.1% of the vote. We are now on 8% (and a lot higher in some demographics).

It has certainly given a boost to our Feltham campaign!

Widmerpool

@Woody and others

Entirely agreed about poor old Vince! Time to find something else for the old chap to do to complement his grandstanding on Mansion Tax and now the Euro and of course Come Dancing. How about making him HMA in Paris ha ha!
There are much better people to run his Deparment! Real Businessmen for example. Has David Laws been out in the cold long enough now?

Paul B

Agree with Frank P. Lets also boycott French cheese. Plenty of good, no fine, British cheese.

starfish

@Juliam F

"I must admit I am not clear on the limits of our veto on fresh financial markets regulation. I will need to check. But just ask yourself why, if there was no threat to the City from the planned treaty change, was France so determined that safeguards for the City would not be built in"

My thoughts exactly

Givne that there is to be no treaty chnage presumably the exisitng EU treaties continue unchanged - there is nothing the 17/26 can do to chnage the single market exactly without a treaty change

Despite the BBC/Grauuniad and LibDems/Labour hysteria all we have done (as someone said over the weekend) is stay at the docks in Southampton as the Titanic sailed

David B

I am afraid the lib dems are learning the truth of the old phrase "be careful what you wish for as you just might get it"

The purity of opposition allows contridictory positions but in government they are finding out you have to make decisions b

Julian F

starfish: "Despite the BBC/Grauuniad and LibDems/Labour hysteria all we have done (as someone said over the weekend) is stay at the docks in Southampton as the Titanic sailed".

Quite so. We are still members of the EU with all the voting rights that we had previously. We are just not part of a ffiscal union that will seek to impose one-size-fits-all rules across Member States to potentially disastrous effect. Nothing more to be said!

disenfranchised

i'm trying to remember how i worded my last post, which again, three hours after i clicked, has yet to appear, but it went something like an angry cleggy represents as much threat as an ant walking up an elephant's back leg, etc, followed by a comment about boycotts, mentioning the fact that my latest dodgy german motah had already convinced me to return to a good old japanese one. then what did i say? can't remember. so that will have to do, folks! was it worth the trouble? probably not, but who cares, we've given those bleedin' EU nutters a poke in the eye, and that in itself is something to celebrate.
cheers me dears.........

disenfranchised

@paul b....

bought a lump of stilton at the brilliant english cheese shop in borough market that beats the pants off just about anything our food-snooty european pals produce.
utterly brilliant, says this not easily pleased, in actual fact extremely discerning, glutton.....

Pete Hoskin

Paddy Ashdown: Apologies, we've edited the text now to make that clearer.

Dimoto

A very high proportion of the LibDem "leadership"/mouthpieces, especially the Social Democrat fraction, are chancers, whose main motivation is to secure some sort of lush sinecure "in Europe".
(a la the Kinnock tribe).

Surely you can understand their pain and anguish ?

I see Oakeshott jnr. was given a three page
spread to rubbish the Cameron veto, in the Sunday Times today.
Journos eh !? You have to laugh !.

Dimoto

disenfranchised:

We have excellent cheeses, and so does La Belle France, let's not get silly about this, just because of the hysterical Sarkozy.

Cynic

"In coming to a solution, the Lib Dem leader has a choice to make. Does he try to repair relations with his party's traditional constituency, mainly by bashing and impeding the Tories when it comes to Europe and all that? Or does he try to reach out to a whole new set of voters?" He could easily find out who he'd be appealing to if he pushed for the referendum on the EU that was part of the LibDems' run up to the general election.

Marcher Baron

@Frank P 12:33pm "Not only that I suggest everybody boycotts French wine from this day forward. There's plenty of good Australian stuff available." I've been doing that for a couple of months, now. Don't forget that there are some eminently buvable British wines - even better. The Romans grew vines at Viroconium and we're still doing it today.

disenfranchised

@dimoto.....

but hitherto much-neglected british cheeses, thanks to post war austerity that virtually wiped british cheeses out. i was brought up eating much synthetic rubbish, never realising that this country used to produce a product to rival the europeans, and why shouldn't we, we have cows and goats to match them, and grass to beat them.
it's time we reappraised a whole swathe of british products. we're all guilty, me especially, of buying foreign before even bothering to look at what's locally available......

Herbert Thornton

The Press Association is reporting on how angry Nick Clegg is at Dave Cameron.

It also says - "Mr Clegg dismissed any suggestion of the coalition breaking up over the disagreements but made clear he would not allow the UK to leave the EU."

"Made clear that 'he would not allow' the UK to leave?"

We all know that many politicians have delusions of their own importance, but this sounds, does it not, like a delusion of omnipotence?

TrevorsDen

The LDs are on the wrong side of the argument.

TGF UKIP

Given that Paddy Ashdown is plainly reading this thread, perhaps he could either confirm or deny for us that Clegg is a beneficary of entitlements in respect of his time as an MEP and Commission official. If so, perhaps he could also confirm or deny that continuing obligations accompany those entitlements and perhaps he could also indicate which other prominent LibDems are similar EU beneficiaries.

Mycroft

Clegg makes Sarkozy seem almost lovable!

David Dozy

The main difference this time is that Clegg is right and our useless,powerless and pantomime PM was indeed pandering to a few sceptics in his party because he was frit of returning with nothing (which is exactly what he has done and will become obvious as soon as the right winged press come to their senses).

Clegg also has the backing of many Tory MPs and the Labour party.

Clegg was caught on the hop this time by a snake but Clegg must remember that it is he who has the power to bring down this 'nasty party' !!

David Dozy

As for our powerless,useless and pantomime Pm cutting and running on the bounce that he might expect from this.

The bounce (from a very low level,considering the bombardment from the right winged press and from every anti-EU MP,including the vote losing grecian Gideon and the deadwood vulcan,clogging up our airways) has bounced.

And our risk-averted useless,powerless and pantomime Pm (who threw away a double figure poll lead in his failure to win the last election) will not take the chance.

He likes being a useless,powerless and pantomime PM even if it is in the gift of Clegg for him to continue as so !!

Dimoto

Blimey ! Pandemonium at Labour trolls central.

The handover from Richard of York to Fatbloke went smoothly enough, but now we have David Dozy and Maggie disputing the succession, and Fatbloke just can't tear himself away.

This must be their most popular billet!

Frank P

I enjoyed watching the emission of bovine effluent from Baron Oxshitt of The Isle of Wight, on News-shite on Friday. He was ashen-faced with fury over the Europe “Non” show, like a menstruating tart on Cup Final night in Piccadilly. As he has always been something of a back-room boy and had obviously been stuck up front by the LimpDem leaders to stir the shit for Cameroon, I decided to look up his pedigree:

*ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Oakeshott,_Baron_Oakeshott_of_Seagrove_Bay

Seems never to have done a day’s work in his life; not at all keen on the proles having a say on Yurrop; what do the great unwashed know about what’s good for the country? Referendum? Nah!. It would be bad for the Britain and bad for Yurrop. A Gramsci mole if ever I saw one.

Charterhouse; Nuffield Oxford PPE, Chocolate Soldier for Woy Jenkins; Think-Wanker with knobs on.

Add this to the equation:

*ttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13416203

Hmmmnn! Are we likely to get a decision soon from the CPS on whether or not the Huhne wifey in a pique will be allowed to spill the beans to a Beak, over the driving ‘irregularity’ of hubby - as revenge for getting dumped for a dyke?

A few family relationships under strain for both Huhne and Oxshitt , it would appear.
But then the LimpDems are very accommodating about that sort of thing, I hear.
What a bunch of kinky conniving unelected bastards we have involved as running our country.

Call an election H2B. Grow a pair and strip out some mouldy deadwood. You know it makes sense. Well played Bernard Jenkins on Newsnight btw. You wound Oxshitt up a treat.
I bet you enjoyed the spanking from Steffy, too. ;-)

disenfranchised

@dave dozy.....

cutting up a bit, are we? taking it badly? that naughty "pantomime pm" (for the upteenth time) getting to you a weeny bit?

never mind. glass of warm milky, into your jim-jams, and off to beddy-byes for you, my lad, before mummy gets really upset with you.....

Sir Everard Digby

The facts are quite straightforward: Nothing has changed in terms of our agreements with Europe. Various politicians will be posturing to appeal to the domestic vote but that is of no consequence.

As for the purveyors of doom who predict job losses here,could I ask what jobs a market predicting 0.3% growth over the enxt year is likely to create,or maintain here?

The EU project also has three members who have required bailouts from it and two more, Italy and Spain who are likely to want something similar. What sort of markets will they provide?

Most worrying of all,the EU has not kept up with the economic times.Britain would do well to leave a trading bloc whose share of world GDP is forecast to fall to 15 per cent in 2020, down from 36 per cent in 1980.

The supreme irony is that the much loathed Lisbon Treaty requires the EU to have a free trade agreement with any nation which leaves it.

I do love the law of unintended consequences

cuffleyburgers

Cameron's has created the perfect conditions to call a snap election, remove the LibDems from government and bring to a close their damaging period with their hands on the levers of power.

Clegg will go down as a jumped-up nonentity who (belatedly) destroyed his useless party, and nobody will even remember the names of the others.

Widmerpool

Just watched David Laws on Sky -an excellent performance.
No sanctimonious sniping like Cable
The sooner poor old Vince is packed off out of harm’s way and Laws takes over his job at Trade the better!

Julian F

Paddy Ashdown at 4.27 on 11th Dec: When I was five or so, I used to delight in having an excuse to use a swear word by running to my mother (or Auntie) and saying "my brother just said b@stard". Your repeated use of the word on a Sunday morning TV programme was offensive and just as childish.

And, if we are to use your terminology, there are at least 81 "b@stards" in the Parliamentary Conservative Party - probably more. That compares to an entire Parliamentary Lib Dem representation of 57. So let's remember who is in the minoroty here. If your colleagues wish to be taken seriously as government ministers they should learn collective responsibility and the basic tenets of democracy.

Oh, and please do urge Vince Cable to resign. We can well do without him.

Remittance Man

There's an interesting pygmy elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring - the various opinion polls this weekend that showed how many people think Cameron's approach is good. 60% in favour, 20% against, appears to be the common ratio.

Does this not prove that the "europe is not important" and "eurosceptcism isn't a vote winner" arguments are tosh. Whether one is pro or anti-eu it is hard to deny that standing up to Johnny Foreigner, especially the French, is a sure fire vote winner.

Sir Archibald Diddums

What does "H2B" mean?

Archie

Why does Clegg ALWAYS look as though he's going to burst into tears at any time?

Archie

Frank P, dimoto, disenfranchised and others: might I direct your attention to Canadian cheese which is without exception excellent, from the everyday to the artisanal and esoteric. The Brie is among the very best I've tasted. May as well buy from friends too, what?