Who will say sorry to Rupert?

Pot Head

Murdoch obviously thought it was true too or could be true. or he wouldn't have shuttered the NofW.

And remember Brooks herself told NofW staff "that in a year’s time staff would all understand why the company had decided to close the newspaper"

So if it's not deleting Milly Dowler's voice mails what is it Kelvin ?

Damien

This is pretty desperate. No truth to the Dowler scandal? Waste of time? Correct me if I am wrong but there is no suggestion that the News of the World didn't hack a dead teenagers phone is there? Only that it turns out they probably didn't delete voicemails.

Klint

Sorry, but I'm not losing a moment's sleep over the NOTW being hard done by.

Andrew Fletcher

Oh so they only hacked into the missing girl's private voicemail? So that's alright then!!

Kennybhoy

Have you been drinking MacKenzie?

Span Ows

Andrew Fletcher (1st comment) Can you read?

telemachus'

Mackenzie you poisonous snake, who let you loose here. The Screws did almost as much damage as you did at the Sun and it is only by a miracle that that was not shut down too When are you going to apologise for the lives you ruined

Chris lancashire

Andrew Fletcher: No, it's not alright. But neither is falsely accusing another newspaper of the even more heinous crime of tampering with a dead girl's phone messages.
The sanctimonious Guardian clearly operates double standards.

Aidan Black

"It remains unchallenged that the News of the World listened to Milly Dowler's voicemail and eavesdropped on deeply personal messages which were being left for her by her distraught friends and family."

You're right. Murdoch is a saint.

rupertdc

In answer to the prior comment, no it is not "alright" that the paper hacked into the phone. It is terrible. However, Kelvin M is not disputing that. He is writing about the "deleting" issue. It was that issue that escalated the whole hacking affair from "very bad" to "totally unforgivable". One can only remember the effect of that "revelation". It was that that turned the whole affair into an all-encompasing international scandal.The point is that, if that bit is now not true, as it seems from the police, then something very important has resulted from journalism that was wrong. The Guardian will work hard to overcome that by spraying stuff in all directions, but it matters.They were, it seems, quite wrong about a very very serious allegation. It helps them that James Murdoch has just made his new statement about not having read his emails.This wil, I suspect, enable them to "move on" to that, in a way they would never allow for a politician or other target of Guardian campaigns.

francbanc

Does anybody sense the irony here? Deary bloody me. The people of Liverpool think you have some gall, no shame and detest you more each day as you walk the earth without a shred of humility, and a hint of a conscience.

Haldane

But Kelvin, don't you see the poetry in all of this?
That Rupert is reduced to a shambling old man because of an untruth. when you and many others in his pay fawned and feasted on his favour because of the lies or omission of facts you built into stories. Stories that made your reputation but destroyed lives. Heh! - who cares - the boss laughed at what I said; I'm safe until the next 'phone call.

And so it goes.....

Tom

So, the NOTW only listened to the voicemails, they didn't delete them. But there was automatic deletion 72 hours after they had been listened to. So by listening to the voicemails, didn't the NOTW set that 72-hour period in motion, and therefore cause the deletion? They may not have intended to do so, but by their illegal and immoral actions, they caused it none the less.

CuttingEdge

Did the average IQ in the UK drop since I packed up and left in January?

Kelvin's point, succinctly made, is that the Guardians'editorial and management staff "We, being Holier Than Thou, vanquish thee accursed spawn of the devil NOTW with completely bogus smears"...

...aint.

...Holier Than Thou, that is. Same old piss in a different (red) coloured bottle, if you ask me, and would be missed far less that the working man's Sunday paper.

fergus pickering

Mackenzie is quite right. Since when has it been enough to convict that there is no evidence that the accused did NOT do what he is accused of. That might satsfy Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot or Sarko, for all I know, but it does not atisfy me no should it you. A tost to you, Mr Mackenzie, may you triumph against the evil lying Grauniad, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Percy Hoskins

There is another element here that should not be forgotten, even if it has by the Guardian's lawyers and ethical team.

A police investigation is on-going and indeed has been for a while - this has seriously prejudiced any case against NotW reporters. In much the same way as some of the tabloids' appalling coverage of Chris Jefferies or Robert Murrat - where was the Guardian's restraint?

Where were the media ethics that it wants to see across the industry in the paper?

In the rush to condemn the old enemy of Murdoch and the red tops they were prepared to act no better than them.

And now they too find themselves wanting - and in the dock.
Flat Earth News indeed.

anyfool

Mr Mackenzie i think you missed a few others out of your article, if the automatic deleting was known by anyone then they also lied or just did not care about the feelings of anyone else as long as they got to defame rivals and other politicians. i doubt that Miliband and Watson will dismount from their high horse as all left wing people believe that a lie told in a good cause is not really a lie but a truth waiting for the right time to come out of the closet.

Bert

Mr Mackenzie chose to publish a long-lens photograph of Anne Diamond and her husband carrying the coffin of their dead child on the day of his funeral, despite them directly asked all Fleet Street editors to respect their privacy and their grief following the death of their child (see her testimony to the Leveson Enquiry last month for the full horrible details). This photograph covered the whole of the front page of that days paper.

He has forfeited any rights to comment on the legality or morality in the media, and should retreat from public life in shame.

Cogito Ergosum

So the emails were deleted automatically 72 hours after they were listened to. But was it not the NOTW journalists who listened, and thereby triggered the deletion?

No, this news does not exonerate the NOTW.

Dimoto

The Leveson Enquiry, "a tribunal into press ethics" eh ?

And there was me thinking it was a new reality TV show, to give some more free publicity to no-mark, fading, and sleazy 'D' listers.

Leveson is out of his depth amongst this shower of professional manipulators - both slebs and journos.

Murdoch should sue.

RobM Wright

Agree with all the above comments and would also add the parents' lawyer still think NoW did it as they have evidence they had her PIN number .... and btw what's Rusbridger's salary got to do with it?

Simon Stephenson.

As Mr Mackenzie seems to have a direct line to what's the truth and what isn't the truth, perhaps he'd be generous enough to go through the statements made by the News International hierarchy about their knowledge and awareness of phone-hacking within the organisation, and tell us which of these statements are true and which of them aren't.

Maggie

I notice the self-confessed phone hacker David Leigh refers in today's Guardian to "fresh evidence about the News of the World's hacking of Milly Dowler's voicemail". There wasn't any evidence in the first place, only allegations and claims and possibilities and chimeras. I really hope the Murdochs sue.

EC

"The sanctimonious Guardian clearly operates double standards."

Always has done. Who was that weasel who shopped Sarah Tisdall?

RKing

It's like one turd calling another turd a turd........
..........................Still a turd!!

Mirtha Tidville

Oh come on not for nothing are the media known as the `Gutter Press` but at last the Grauniad is left with loads of egg on its sanctimonious face..Rejoice and just enjoy this unexpected Christmas present.

SteveF

Funnily, the error by The Guardian has provided yet another example of how some journalists just don't get it. This article being a prime example.

Albert

I feel sorry for the folk who lost their livelihoods when the Screws died.

But I feel the world is a better place now that it is dead. It was a tawdry, meretricious rag of the worst order that was a terrible reflection on Britain as the country's best selling newspaper.

It treated everyone with contempt, not least its readers whom - given its content - it clearly thought were morons.

James Willett

So they listened to voicemail which then activated an automatic trigger that deleted them 72 hours later. That means that even if it was an accident they still got those messages deleted!

Herbert Thornton

This is actually a considerably more serious matter than the disclosures about the News Of The World.

It ought to result in the Guardian - which is a much worse and nastier newspaper than the News of the World ever was - being shut down too.

And after that the News of the World ought to be revived - at the expense of the Guardian.

Mal

So you would support a decision to provide the press complaints commission with the power to force newspapers to give exactly the same prominence to apologies of this sort as was given to the original untrue story?

Paul Reiss

Private Eye claims you told Anne Diamond, when she asked you not to publish pictures of her visiting the body of her dead son, 'tough', and that you then went ahead and published them. Since you're so exercised by the truth today, tell us whether or not that's false.

Fatbloke on tour

KMcK

Away back under yer rock ya reptile.

EC

Rupe's been duped!

It wasn't the NOTW that murdered Minnie Dowler, was it? Quite frankly the actions of the Dowler parents in this affair disgust me. Their daughter had been murdered so how much additional grief could the NOTW revelations possibly add to THAT? £2million FFS?

It appeared to me at the time that instead of opting for dignified privacy they paraded themselves and their 'victimhood' in front of the press at every opportunity. Imo, chancers on the make.

Charles Norrie

When a defendant does everything to suggest he is not guilty, and the yet the denials rest on thinner and thinner consistencies about his guilt, one comes to the conclusion reasonably that the man or NI is guilty.

Gail

If you want to see a poster child for the morally bankrupt then judging by this article Paul McMullan is just the doorman you'll encounter on your way into the throne room occupied by Mackenzie. A truly vile exposition.

EC

Cogito Ergo...

Checksum error, mate. If the plod hadn't already investigated the message on the phone they should be sacked!

Bored

Save the sanctimonious nonsense Kelvin. The reason that there is a press inquiry is that newspapers were systematically breaking the law. So what if they didn't delete Milly Dowler's voicemails, they still hacked into them. Where was the public interest? Where was the morality that they claim to uphold? This entire incident is dripping with hypocrisy. The fact that the Guardian is also guilty of presenting theories as facts shows just how much the entire system is broken.

As for the pain caused to Rupert Murdoch, I hope he's not feeling too exhausted to enjoy the luxuries that were paid for by the misery of some and the titillation of others.

Holly ......

EC.6.15PM.

Self moderated.

MB

What a pathetic article - the voicemail's were still hacked and listened to by NOTW which is a gross invasion into the privacy of the Dowler's grief of a missing daughter and all the other friends and family who left deeply personal messages for her.

Does Mr Mackenzie not think that is morally wrong and advertisers should continue to do business with such a company? Clearly, this man has lost the plot.

Kennybhoy

EC on December 13th, 2011 6:15pm

The lassie's name was Milly you pondlife!

arnoldo87

"The problem with journalism is that people don’t tell you the truth. They think it’s the truth, they hope it’s the truth, they wish it to be the truth but they get it plain wrong."

And in some cases, Kelvin, they know it's not the truth.

As you, The Sun, and The Guardian are fully aware.

Mender

The Guardian printed that they'd got this wrong on the front page. If Kelvin had done the same for every lie he printed when he edited the Sun he'd have no space left to print anything else.

Kelvin-admit it. Phone-hacking was disgusting and it's time the people who did it got their comeuppance. It's over.

In2minds

So what is the difference between myth and evidence, good job we can trust the police eh?

Paul

A statement issued by the family today said: "The Dowlers stand by the statement which was made on their behalf at the end of last week. They have a CLEAR RECOLLECTION that the POLICE TOLD THEM that the News of the World had listened to their missing daughter's voicemail and DELETED SOME OF THE MESSAGES.

Mark Jones

This is pure hypocrisy of the highest order. A man (if he even deserves that term) who published some of the most disgusting lies known to british journalism, has the nerve to start criticising someone for running lies and not apologising?! Go hide back under your rock Mackenzie, you truely are scum in the first degree

Elaine

Oh, come off it. Do you seriously suggest that Murdoch closed down the NotW solely because of the story about deletion of messages? Do you seriously imagine that, but for the allegation about deletions, the public and the NotW's advertisers would have shrugged their shoulders about the fact that the NotW thought they had a right to hack a murdered child's phone? And what about Wade's statement that there was much worse waiting to come out?

Cogito Ergosum

@EC 6.15pm

You may be right. Perhaps the police in accessing the emails caused them to be deleted.

After all, why would NOTW want to delete such voicemails? Perhaps to stop other journalists hearing them?

I hope Leveson will uncover the full story.

exile on euro street

So, newspapers sometimes print inaccurate stories. Who'd've thought it?

Grow up, McKenzie.

Jeremy

"Who will say sorry to Rupert?"

Nobody will say sorry to Rupert. And nor should they.

Anon

Everyone's quick to defend the guardian, but their self-righteous form of journalism destroyed the country's most successful newspaper and cost the jobs of hundreds of excellent journalists. Meanwhile they continue to celebrate their own complete lack of popularity and imminent bankruptcy... I couldn't hope for anything better than Rusbringer's dismissal.

EC

It's a curious thing, modern morality. I would not have accepted any money, not even 1p, from Mr. Murdoch. Anybody that can countenance such an action in those same circumstances needs to get their moral compass checked.

Cogito Ergosum,

You could be right too. I doubt whether News International or the NOTW was the only culprit in the general phone hacking scandal. I hope that Lord Justice Leveson does a forensically thorough job.

TrevorsDen

Dear Tom, the first thing the police did was listen to the voice mails, so they deleted them.

Colin

Let's not forget the timing of this story. It came on the eve of the NewsCorp BSkyB deal.

Was this part of a deliberate, desperate last ditch attempt by the guardian to wreck the deal, at all costs? It was a game changer on so many levels. All their previous bleating, lobbying and emotional blackmailing had failed. The government was apparently on the verge of waving the deal through. This made up story effectively stopped it dead.

In the end, all this hacking stuff only came to light as part of the guardian's rearguard action on this deal.

RichardF

It's difficult to know, Kelvin, whether you are, as you appear to be, the stupidest man with access to the internet (there's some stiff competition for that one) or you're taking the piss. You're not seriously putting forward the argument that hacking a murdered child's phone is ok as long as you don't delete the messages, are you? Or that every other invasion of privacy and lie that's come to light are eclipsed by a possible mistake about whether or not some NOTW reptile deleted the voicemails? You really are a pathetic little man, aren't you?

Sir Everard Digby

Pray tell what has morality got to do with the media? As I said on this site in the summer,the lefties holding the Guardian as a bastion of truth and honesty should be careful what they wished for from the enquiry.

Surprise,surprise, the Guardian is just another bottom feeder in the same filthy pond as the rest.

The real question is why the left attribute morality to the Guardian's lies but immorality to the lies of others,yet seem to think they speak from some kind of moral high ground as a result? A position based on pure fantasy.

They cannot say they were not warned as during the summer frenzy the Guardian was forced to print a retraction about one phone hacking story.

That one paper should use such appalling methods to get a story is bad enough. That another should use lies to produce headlines about the same subject is equally beneath contempt.

Dimoto

EC: "You could be right too. I doubt whether News International or the NOTW was the only culprit in the general phone hacking scandal. I hope that Lord Justice Leveson does a forensically thorough job".

We KNOW that they were all at it.
Unfortunately, Leveson is bogged down in listening to the tall-tales of a bunch of Slebs on the make.

I doubt that he will ever get round to doing the job he is paid for - just how much is this Sleb show costing the tax-payer ?

RIB

I miss the News of the World; it was tremendously popular and had a place in the UK's firmament. I hope something fills the space again.

The parade of sanctimonious celebrities like Coogan, Grant and Miller dripping on about their privacy get right up my nose. Choose another job. I also find it sickening that the execrable Tessa Jowell has trousered £100,000 from this. Horrible specimen.

MB

The fact of the matter is NOTW have been paying and are continuing to pay thousands of pounds of compensation to victims for malpractice and illegal acts. Who allowed this behaviour unchecked, to go on? We do need an inquiry into this, we need to know how the media got to this low point and there needs to be prosecutions for the criminal acts.

Tron

The police listened to the messages first.Doh!

The Guardian and the BBC had a lot to gain from this story. They were the ones who wanted it to be true. That is why they never asked how or why they were deleted.

A lot of people on here hate The Sun and The NOTW. If you do, you hate most of the people in this country.
How many people read The Sun and how many read The Spectator or The Guardian ?

You are just snobs.

Eugene Ruane

A lecture on ethics by Kelvin Mackenzie?

I have now truly seen it all.

The man is...venal.

strapworld

McKenzie is quite right to point out the lies that created the death of a newspaper that employed hundreds of people.

The Guardian is as guilty as them all. Rushbridger should be sacked. BUT the left never apologise, this ghastly liar of a reporter is not sacked either. Double standards. Total and absolute hypocrisy.

As The Guardian has lost all the excellence of the original Manchester Guardian it should be closed down.

Jonathan Paxton

This is an odious and pathetic piece of writing.

Jonathan Paxton

I couldn't fit my full response here about the vulgar fool who wrote this article, so here is my blog post on the subject.

http://jonnybananastoday.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/a-response-to-kelvin-mckenzie-and-the-spectator/

Mender

So it looks like the Guardian got some of the details wrong. Oh dear Kelvin, boo hoo.

I guess you're suggesting that what the News of the World should have done was print a front page exclusive that it committed all these crimes with accurate details? Getting the scoop out first to avoid such distressing mistakes?

No, thought not.

johnno

Don't hold your breath, Kelvin. Maybe when the public gets bored with this celebrity wank-fest a more balanced view will prevail. But then again....I doubt it. Did you see that Tessa Jowell scored £200k for a bit of voicemail hacking? You'd have to pay me that sort of money to listen to her witterings. The world's gone completely bonkers.

JR

Remarkable. He's just been on the Sky news paper review and the presenter was looking at him like he was mental whilst KM stared down the barrel of the camera calling for the sacking of journalists on the basis of reporting a story based on the family and police as sources. This is the man who had no sources for stories that liverpool fans pissed on the dead and published and defended it anyway. Truly remarkable humbug.

MB

If you go on to the Sun website and view the article about the Guardian misleading the public - there is not a single comment, why is that?

Former NOTWer

Kelvin, your are criticising the Guardian for exactly the same thing you have refused to apologise to Hillsborough victims' families for. Thanks for your support, but we can do without it.

Barrrrrry Manylows

I'm sure I'm not alone in holding the opinion that Murdoch deserves to experience for himself the misery his evil empire has been inflicting on so many others for so long. Make no mistake, this man should be held more accountable than most individuals for the state the world is in today. There is no punishment in this lifetime which would suffice. A taste of his own medicine before he boards the express train to Hell will probably be softened a little by the hundreds of ill-gotten millions in his bank though....

joey jones

Is it April 1st?

"The problem with journalism is that people don't tell you the truth"

JFT96

David Dee

What,is this the Mckenzie who told us all about liverpool supporters urinating on the dead,on policemen and robbing the pockets of the dead as well as inventing other lurid stories on his downward journey which took him through the gutter and found him new depths od depravity.

No wonder that the various women in his pathetic life walked out on him. I supposed that his three offspring must be extremely proud for having a prat like that as a father,if that is so !!!

michael

Live by the sword..... tough!

Roy

Nothing is surprising when it come to the left mounting their old hobby horse to castigate the leadership of the right. To send in the Light Brigade before they sighted or identified the rogue enemy.

Thucydides

Bitter old has been, with tenuous grasp of reality, fails to come to terms with the fact that good, old-fashioned investigative journalism by the Graun may mean that tabloids in the future are less able to break the law and/or make things up to flog papers.

Kennybhoy

David Dee on December 14th, 2011 1:29am

And if all else fails blame other journalists...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-16110588

David

A bit rich to be demanding apologies for using dubious sources for your headlines isn't it, Mr Mackenzie?

smell the glove

Truth Kelvin; like the truth you peddled after Hillsborouh,about people pissing on dead bodies, and going through their pockets.Don't make me sick!

Steph

You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned advertising.
Grauniad gets things wrong or whips up faux leftie fury based on lies all the time and so the advertisers must already be shameless - They ain't going to pull out because of it and so there's not a problem.

It seems Cameron can stand up to the EU, but doesn't dare stand up to the guardian!

Brady

Is there any truth that The Sun rang Gary Speed the Saturday afternoon of his death to prepare him for the story they were going to run? Shredders running overtime.....

JustMe

They hacked hundreds of phones.

Why don't you take the last copy of the NOTW and stick it up your ass.

Johnny

Rupert Murdoch was forced to apologise to the Dowlers because his paper hacked their daughter's voicemail so they could sell papers. They still did it even if they didn't delete messages. The police investigating had a mandate to do it, these reporters didn't.

Weygand

So many comments allege that the automatic deletion was triggered by NoW journalists. Yet the police have confirmed that Mulcaire did not become involved until after the deletion and say it is 'unlikely' other NoW journalists had been involved.

A shame some people only listen to the parts of the story that suits them.

Jimmy

"Milly Dowler’s phone had an automatic 72-hour deletion process for messages that had been listened to "

So to listen in was therefore to ensure deletion?

And your complaint is what exactly?

AS for the bit where the grauniad owes the Digger an apology for his decision to throw 300 employees under the bus, you'll have to talk me through that one.

inside-out

It was probable Her Majesties Constabulary ,who after hacking Millie Dowlers voicemail account triggered the deletion of messages.NOTW investigators were not the only people hacking voicemails. The police were investigating the childs disappearance,and could well have obtained permission from her parents for their justifiable actions.

Andy S.

There have been so many lies and myths spread by vested interests about the phone hacking saga it's difficult to know the truth. Like all cause celebres, myths are allowed to take hold mainly because the establishment creates "the official explanation" which may be far from the truth.

Like the Hillsborough disaster, official versions are "cleaned up" for the benefit of victims' families and public authorities. If you weren't at Hillsborough on that day, you have no way of knowing if particular individuals behaved badly without the accompanying incontravertible evidence. I have seen footage of Liverpool fans swarming in through the tunnel entrance actually beating back their own fans who were trying to escape the crush. Fights were actually breaking out with people being pushed back into the crush. This piece of footage has never, to my knowledge, been shown in the media. The urinating story probably stems from the well known practice (to other football fans, and the disgust of ground staff, at least) of Liverpool fans urinating on the terraces where they stood so they didn't miss any of the game. It seems there are many inconvenient truths that are glossed over.

As to the Millie Dowler story, the police must have known the truth of the deletions at an early stage. They could have nixed the Guardian's untrue headline but obviously decide to keep quiet about it, probably because it suited their purposes. It does seem more likely that the police themselves were responsible for the automatic deletions, but that would have been embarrassing for them to have admitted their error after the Guardian broke their false story.

It's obvious that the BBC/Guardian axis used the hacking stories for their own benefit. The BBC especially went overboard with it with the intention of scuppering the BSkB takeover. That should be the real story - a publicly funded organisation, aided by their friends at the Guardian, using their unique position to damage a commercial rival.

But,like other have said, the left never apologise for their behaviour. In fact such is their belief in their own high morality, they think their behaviour, however objectionable, is always right. In fact they are true sociopaths.

TGF UKIP

A parallel would be the attempted hatchet job on W by CBS and Dan Rather in the 2004 Presidential election - they didn't look too hard and they didn't properly check lest it might undermine their smear.

ally 444

It was the police that listened to the voicemails triggering the auto delete....not the NotW, maybe the ex NotW employees should sue the Guardian in a mass action.
Its a rubbish paper anyway and as it sells so few copies it will probably have to close down. Touche

Matt

It's all very well. But Mr Davies has been outed as an MSU. Someone who Makes S**t Up. He is worse than a lowly tabloid hack. Because with Mr Davies comes the stench of added hypocrisy.

Owen Morgan

Goon.

MDLB

Desperate stuff Kelvin.
You sound like a man caught red handed leaving a house with his pockets crammed full of jewelry, whose defense is to shout loudly that it wasn't him who got mud on the carpets.

You'll have to do better than that.

Johnny

We all feel distraught at poor Rupert's plight. Could we raise a collection to provide him with a little solace in his distress? If the appeal is over-subscribed we could use the rest for treatment for Kelvin.

Richard of Moscow

Many people have wondered what kind of slobbering cretin would believe something alleged by a reporter from the Guardian. The answer seems to be, "Rupert Murdoch."

Sara Halliday

Another article by Mr Mackenzie written without regard for the full facts....