Another sign of coalition splits over Europe

Widmerpool

This is no time for "bellyaching outside the regiment"
Our Froggy Friends will detect and exploit with glee even the slighest tissue between Dave and Cleggie.
I hope Dave tells him as much and threatens to call a General Election.
Cable Huhne and even Clegg could then look like Irish Turkeys looking forward to Christmas!
Yesterday's swing to Labour on a low turnout shows how deeply unpopular the Lib Dems are becoming!

Swiss Bob

Isn't this the 'phoney war'?

Hostilities will really commence once France loses its AAA rating and/or one or more of the PIIGS defaults.

michael

So the DPM wants to play chicken with the PM.
-Bottom line, a general election.
-Whose going to flinch first?

Nicholas

Is Clegg's muddled approach an incompetent attempt to remain on the fence whilst performing crowd pleasing acrobatics to gain attention to himself or just plain stupidity? And who exactly is he trying to ingratiate himself with?

Just a small point, Clegg, but as a Liberal Democrat (supposedly) should you be quite so pleased with yourself about an unaccountable, unaudited bureaucracy trying to ENFORCE a coerced treaty?

A remarkably irritating cove.

Dennis Churchill

Again the impression is given that Clegg’s primary purpose is to be the EU’s representative in the UK’s government.
The LibDems must see they are becoming, in the public’s mind, a One Trick Pony –a type of anti-UKIP party.
Under the Loyalty Clause in Mr.Clegg’s EU pension conditions he could lose his pension if he came out against the EU, just as Patten, the BBC Chairman could. Of course they are both men of the highest integrity so this would in no way influence them but their positions would be stronger if they gave up their pension entitlement until the conditions were amended and the clause removed.

strapworld

Can this be of any surprise to anyone? The man who had Gordon Brown to beat and lost-in effect-. The man who has proved time and again he cannot keep his promises to the people of the United Kingdom.

He found himself in a place he did not like and is desperate to be loved by his continental brothers and sisters. Blow the UK!

As for the eurosceptic MP's. If this pensioner can work this man out, the fact that they gave him a rapturous greeting when he attended the 1922 Committee meeting, is proof, to me, that they will bottle out of a further fight with this man.

Wake up conservatives. Local Associations pressure your MP's this man Cameron, our weak prime minister, is about to sell this country down the river.

Jeremy

The way I see it, the ratings agencies have two choices. They either cave in to political pressure and leave things as they are (in which case, as a guide, their ratings become worthless) or they reflect reality and downgrade those countries which merit it.

daniel maris

Michael-

Bottom line is alternatively a coalition with Labour or an agreement to support a minority Labour administration.

A credible narrative about the failure of the Tories to do achieve economic growth could be put forward as the excuse.

michael

Makes me wonder what the DPM's French phone call was really about.

Purpleline

Comrade Clegg full paid up member of the fifth column of Euroites should be carted off to the Tower as a traitor to ENgland.

His Guardian article is a 2011 equivalent to 1938 appeasement. The man & his odious party must be thrown out of Government.

Even at the comic awards professor Cable the sage & Onion of Twickenham was taking the P out of Cameron.

82 rebel Tory backbenchers are larger than the entire Lib Dem party at Westminster.

In March next year will be the perfect time to call an election as by time the EU will be about to break-up and the economies in Europe will be on their knees.

James

"This is a striking claim given that David Cameron has not publicly said that he would accept this"

Not really. Clegg knows that it's perfectly legal for this to happen, whereas Cameron didn't know this when he said he'd block it. Presumably he's now better informed by m'learned friends...

Mycroft

I don't think he would have said that without clearing it with Cameron first. In my view, it would serve no useful purpose to create difficulties over the Europlus group using EU institutions; it would merely create extreme ill-feeling with nothing be gained in return. What is needed here is a long game, with the UK not putting itself in a position to be plausibly blamed for the possible downfall of the Euro, and keeping its powder dry until the crisis-point arrives. We are still in the phoney war at the moment.

Woody

Enough is enough. If the Lib Dems can't behave as a responsible party of government, then they should be cast aside and Mr Clegg surely will be the last Leader of this silly, infantile, immature, untrustworthy, treacherous party.

I well understand David Cameron's desire to keep this coaltion going but the country can't take three and a half more years of this little bunch of no-hopers destroying every policy bar their own. Their behaviour over Europe is an absolute disgrace and David Cameron risks not just bringing Nick Clegg down but himself as well.

Russell

This euro mess is getting more hilarious by the day.
The Russian Ambassador to the EU has just said on 'euronews', when asked if Russia would support the euro, that Russia would not be spending Roubles on euros! He then was asked about 'dodgy' Russian elections and made two very telling points.
1) Russia does no use postal votes as they would encourage fraud.
2) Some european countries have unelected governments (Greece & Italy) and some have unelected House of Lords!

Hilarious times when on both democracy and economics, Russia is pointing out european shortcomings.

TGF UKIP

Ho, ho, ho! Who could ever have doubted that the only issue in doubt was the order of appeasement and now we know. Clegg and LibDems first and then close behind for the "sorry I didn't really mean it" come Sarko and Miss Piggy.

And he didn't even get a piece of paper to wave.

Dennis Churchill

Mycroft
December 17th, 2011 12:16pm
Yes the probability is that we will leave full membership almost accidentally as the Franco-Germans create more and more problems defending the indefensible.
As they will not admit the Euro is the problem they can’t solve it.
Russell
December 17th, 2011 12:38pm
Yes it is bizarre how the right-on tendency can never own up to the beams in their own eyes while forensically examining the motes in others.
The European Union is Post Democratic, which is a way of saying Continental Europe is reverting to its political default and that is not Anglosphere type representative democracy.

zoomhoody

Cameron's veto only has positive significance if he uses the "veto bounce" to call a general election, ditch the Lib Dims & call a referendum on our membership of the EU. otherwise he will have oeuf sur la visage.

camerons demise

Neither party of the colusion party's are worthy of a vote . You're all trying to define who said what and who might be right! when in truth you know they are all liers , don't tell me, you're now going to vote liebour ?? HAHAHAHAHA

daniel maris

Just a little point on the comedy awards. This isn't a gripe against the comedians per se - I enjoy a lot of their stuff - but it was noticeable that when all those gangs of producers, writers and actors came on stage just how very few of them were non-European in terms of race.

Typical of leftie-luvvies is that not?

John Finemore

@Widmerpool
really embarrassing that you dont know your own countries election and parliament laws , an election cannot be called unless there is a majority vote of confidence , Cameron isnt quite that stupid anyway even if they could call an election at this stage they would be extremely unlikely to get anywhere near as many votes as they did last time , it would be political suicide

Rhoda Klapp

Time for a new post about Clegg's xenophobe remark?

jon dee

I agree with Dennis C.

Surely this is all part of Clegg polishing his CV for that new role in Europe.

His demob happy demeanour has been obvious for months, and who could blame him for wishing a release from the terrible burden of leading the Lib Dems.

If all else fails his wife will employ him, scooping up whichever currency the EU is throwing at lobbyists.

David Lindsay

The SNP should put down a Commons motion or amendment at the earliest opportunity invoking the provision of the 1972 European Communities Act that a resolution of that House would still trump the supremacy of European Community law, and specifically applying that provision in order to restore the United Kingdom's historic fishing rights in accordance with international law: 200 miles, or to the median line.

Year on year between 1979 and 1997, every Labour MP votes against confirmation of the Common Fisheries Policy, as did every Lib Dem or member of the predecessor parties. So did every MP from Northern Ireland, and so did the members of Plaid Cymru. Whatever happened to those annual votes? And whereas withdrawal from the CFP was Conservative Party policy under Iain Duncan Smith, it was one of the first casualties of the Michael Howard media coup that those same rolling news channels now wish to repeat against Ed Miliband, also with a view to nipping Euroscepticism in the bud.

David Davis made the highly meaningful promise to restore that commitment, but was completely ignored in favour of David Cameron's wholly meaningless blather about whereabouts in the chamber of the European Parliament his party's MEPs were going to sit. If 81 Conservatives, including two PPSes and the Chairman of the 1922 Committee, could be found to break a three-line whip in order to vote in favour of something as vague and ineffectual as the referendum motion, then how many more ought to be prepared to vote in favour of something as specific and effective as this?

Making it all the more useful that it should be an SNP rather than a Labour initiative, since the Conservative Party is now so lacklustre in Scotland, and now contains so many sympathisers with English independence, that its MPs would no longer regard the SNP as enemies or even opponents.

Alex Salmond, even if through whoever it is that are your proxies at Westminster, over to you.

Rhoda Klapp

Daid Lindsay, you must have noticed that promises and assurances given in opposition are, at least in the case of anything to do with the EU, lost in government. Just about the time when the new PM first steps into his new office in Downing Street and finds the secret envelope on his desk. You know, the one which contains the orders from Brussels, and the reasons why the EU must never be opposed.

Herbert Thornton

"This is a striking claim given that David Cameron has not publicly said that he would accept this."

What's striking about it? It might be a bit more striking if Cameron had publicly said that he would not accept it. But, from our experience of Cameron, only a bit.

Indeed it should surprise nobody if we soon hear Cameron saying that Britain is obliged to accept it.

Dennis Churchill

Thursday’s YouGov poll for the Sun had CON 41%, LAB 40%, LDEM 10%, with the Conservative Euro boost continuing.
Two things would ensure a Conservative majority: boundary changes brought forward and a pact with UKIP---in that order as the LibDems are needed for the first. The second would be achieved by a referendum pledge. A Cast Iron one, of course.
David Lindsay
December 17th, 2011 5:09pm
Yes the growing sympathy for English independence within the grass roots Conservative party is never discussed.

Gawain

Give it a few more days and Clegg will have changed his mind.

Yow Min Lye

Ah, silly me. There I was thinking that last week's summit meeting of the great and the good of the EU had fixed the Euro.

Dimoto

The over-excited chaps on here should simmer down. It is pretty obvious that Sarkozy has badly overreached himself.

Cameron has been talking with Merkel, we have no idea to what understanding they may have come.

There was a time when Conservatives were disciplined and trusted their leader.

Meanwhile, our banks are slowly reducing their exposure.
Long game, everytime.

Cynic

"Nick Clegg has told The Guardian's Patrick Wintour that Britain has 'signalled we are happy for them [the Eurozone plus group of countries] to use EU institutions' to enforce any new treaty they agree between themselves.//This is a striking claim given that David Cameron has not publicly said that he would accept this." It's also striking (although probably not surprising) because the treaty within a treaty does not qualify for the use of EU institutions. No doubt the rules will be broken again - they always seem to be.

Cynic

@Swiss Bob "Isn't this the 'phoney war'? Probably more like the Battle of Barking Creek.

Colin Cumner

Continuing and serious dissent within the Coalition Government will only serve to swing more votes Labour's way, perhaps even enough to allow it to form the next Government. All true Conservatives (and by that I mean all those who put Britain's interests above all else) must surely feel a great deal of horror at that prospect.

Widmerpool

General Elections?
I chose my words carefully in my last posting, suggesting Dave threatened the Lib Dems with such, by facing them out with a "back me or sack me" tactic much as John Major did when the boot was on the other foot; viz it was the Eurosceptics were the ones that needed controlling then, not the self serving Lib Dems like Cable and Huhne now. Hence the remark about Irish Turkeys I suspect Clegg would hate to be contesting Sheffield not March. Ha Ha!

Happy Christmas to all readers including the Irish Turkeys[I hope] in the Lib Dem Party!

ButcombeMan

michael
December 17th, 2011 12:10pm
Makes me wonder what the DPM's French phone call was really about.
**********************
Michael, it was about psychologically boosting Clegg, giving him bit of PR and making him look important. Cameron has to stop him having a breakdown for the life of the coalition.

All of those who really loved the Euro concept, are in personal torment and sufferring insecurity and deep personal uncertainty.

Reality seepage is coming to them, but slowly, the poor dears need time.