It's poverty, not race, that ought to concern us more

TrevorsDen

labour's policy is to keep, people in poverty and dependency and deny them opportunity because they give them a dumbed down education and simply import people to fill the menial jobs (or indeed fill skill gaps) and just park Brits on benefits.

Labour profess all this as success by pointing to GDP figures built on a borrowing bubble.

Frothy

A very good digest of the evidence, which chimes with my experience. On radio 5 yesterday they interviewed people in Abbot's constituency (where I lived for a decade) about her racist tweet. Two out of the five were incredulous remarking that a large and increasing minority in the area were mixed race. They thought this was entirely positive. Race baiters on all sides look increasingly anachronistic.

Wilhelm 1

'' Its poverty NOT race.''

Yeah, right, who's he kidding ?

Ifs it's NOT all about race, why did you bring the subject up then ?

Unless it IS all about race.

Eddie

Lots of people have a vested interest in exaggerating racism in society: their jobs and wellpaid careers in the diversity and racism industries depend on it.

Also, this apparently everpresent racism is a very convenient excuse for any bad behaviour or educational/employment failure rates amongst certain ethnic minorities (though the effects magically seem not to affect other ethnic minorities badly!).

The spectre of racism is used to claim special status and argue for 'positive action' - and a headstart for ethnic minorities - because, apparently, all whites are unfairly advantaged in a 'racist society'.

Of course, some 20% of kids at public schools are BME, and most of those who ride the 'positive action' gravy train, and shameless play the poor wickle ethnic to get advantage in their careers, are already from rather well-off families. I know several people in the TV industry who fall into this category; I also know many white men who feel they have been the victims of racism and sexism.

One thing never mentioned though is racist attitudes amongst black and asian people. Many of these would most certainly not be happy for their son and especially their daughter to marry anyone of another culture or culture (or religion).

Dean

In the 1950's Britain was a very homogeneous society; it was white, english-speaking and nominally christian. With small exceptions.

It is now possible for Fraser to write 'One fifth of British under 16s are mixed race'

So how did this come about? Did any party make a manifesto commitment to make a multiracial, multilingual, multifaith society? Would they have got elected?

Is this, in fact, a democracy at all?

Publius

"The real segregation in British society is between the rich and the poor"

Oh, please!

daniel maris

Fraser,

I certainly would be careful about the conclusions you draw.

1. Look at what happened during the recent riots. What we saw there was a lot of vigilantism based on ethnic identity (sometimes with a cloak of religion).
That doesn't bode well for the future. Out of such group thin grows the potential for clashes.

2. Racism is in decline as a form of discourse but not necessarily as a way of thinking. In the 1960s you could be overtly racist without losing your job.
Not now. So you can't trust survey returns entirely, although I would agree there has been a genuine decline in racism.

3. There is no end to mass immigration. The waves of population cannot be absorbed indefinitely without trouble.

4. Your fourth point - the idea that gangs are colour-blind - is really so wide of the mark as to be risible. I am afraid you can't trust the sort of social inquiries you quote as they nearly always are highly politically motivated. When did Joseph Rowntree Trust ever identify anyone in this country say as "bone idle"? LOL or a criminal as one who "enjoys inflicting terror on victims". But we know such people exist. And we know most gangs, where there are different ethnic groups do tend to have a racial or ethnic identity. There are Tamil gangs, Somali gangs, white gangs and black gangs. If you are denying that you really don't cut it.

jords947

@Wilhelm 1

What a truely pathetic argument that is!

Halcyondaze

I’m not racist, but unlike you Fraser, as a white guy I know plenty about racism. That’s because there’s plenty of it about and plenty of it directed at white people – if you’re forced to step outside the bubble. The Abbott case is a shining example - but she gets away with yet another anti-white comment because she’s black. Imagine the furore if it had been the other way round. Her life would be ruined. This is happening at every level of society where the interests of non-whites are given positive promotion.

Racism – by its true definition – is totally illogical and is on the decline amongst white people and quite right too. But the term has been hijacked by the Left to mean ANY criticism of ANYBODY who is not white. This causes huge anger and resentment which is growing all the time and simmering away just under the surface. You won’t read about it in polls.

It is not racism that makes the indigenous population concerned and dismayed at the total cultural displacement that is happening in this country. It’s anger and fear that their concerns about this enforced transformation are being dismissed so contemptuously. They have no voice – but they aren’t voting BNP because they still consider the BNP to be too extreme.

The racism of your definition is dying out in the younger generations and the British neighbourhoods you mention simply because the demographics have altered so dramatically and the establishment has acted so thoroughly to demolish our sense of identity. We have been abolished.

And I think you’ll find there is a strong racial element to British gangs: they are dominated by non-whites and white youths join them because they exist in a cultural vacuum and they want to be like the gangstas they idolise in their rap videos. So all in all your rosy picture is pretty inaccurate Fraser.

DavidDP

It's dropping, but not sure if it's something that has gone to the extent that combating it should be sidelined. But a concerted approach on solving the issue you've highlighted would probably have a better impact now on the future of minorities than anti-racism campaigning would compared to previously.

There is of course the problem of a political generation that became active when race was a real problem and became active because of it. Will be hard to change the prism through which they look at politics.

Austin Barry

On race, Fraser seems to have been sired by Pangloss out of Pollyanna and running blinkered.

He seems to have missed the endemic sullen resentment of the electorate on the alleged beneficial results of Third World immigration.

Jez

I think you're wrong on nearly every level here Fraser. Sorry but i think you are.

Austin Barry

The fact that dare not speak its name is the correlation between race and intelligence. But let’s not go there.

mart

Fraser, good post. But your headline misses the point you make in your article.

The difficulties are with educational outcomes, not poverty per se.

And educational outcomes are a function of many things besides poverty.

Wilhelm 1

Frazer

Could you give me the exact PRECISE date when '' waaycism '' finally vanishes from the face of the Earth ?

Andy H

These are the real dividing lines of British politics. The existing political love to classify Race, Gender, Class, Sexuality etc as a way of dividing groups of people, so that they can define special interests and pretend they have a mission to fulfill.

That is the real reason the levels of voting is on the decline because the politicians only succeed in representing themselves.

The sooner we have mandatory open primaries, the sooner the likes of the bigoted politician who dares to privately educate there own children, whist denying similar opportunities to everyone else and daring to label a subsection of society with racist commentary will be removed from public life.

Dianne Abbot I am referring to you.

Tarka the Rotter

"This has drawn some criticism, not least from those asking (understandably) what a white guy like me can know about racism." Not been to Bradford recently then, I take it?

Jez

Most of this is the old mantra; Whites were the racist scum, there are some very select questions asked and 'Hazar' no one is 'white racist scum' anymore! Yeahhh!!!

It is so much more complex than this.

I read you piece in the Telegraph Fraser and as an opinion, it is what you 'personally' would like to happen and it's the establishment's 'best case scenario'.

The BNP seems to have been racked with internal problems, splits and then more splits again.

The people that isolated they voted for the BNP, *haven't gone away though*. I cannot emphasise the playground mentality that the educated classes bring to this argument;

"I'm going to stop taking my cancer tablets now- so i must not have cancer then, eh?"

This establishment fixation that anyone who votes BNP or wants the end to mass immigration must be a 'white racist' is fundamentally flawed (in reality) on every level.

Islam is a massive concern, the Summer riots was (as a very very strong possibility) totally black in origin- and in most parts, black in execution.

The summer riots; you cannot even bring yourselves to admit it could be anything to do with the multicultural ghetto mentality that has festered through mass immigration and anti-white liberal legislation.

That white pensioner allegedly kicked to death by black rioters- there'd be uproar by you lot if that was whites that had done that to a black pensioner! Scandalous.

Fraser. The ten ton elephant sat in the corner of the room that everyone's ignoring.... It's getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

The white working classes that are have the EDL, the 'Urban youth' have their gangs (as seen on TV, Summer 2011), the Muslim youth are completely self contained and live separately through their own wishes- radical elements seem to be taking hold.

The whites feel they cannot speak without ruin or incarceration on trumped up charges, the Black and Asian communities feel as though it's 'us against them' especially in London & Birmingham (thanks Abbott) and the establishment feels it's all the fault of the whites and pile on 250,000 new faces per year through immigration.

But no one minds having a black boss- if you're white. Because the over educated imbeciles who took the pointless survey in the first place think whites are the only racists. Yeh, right.

You couldn't make it up.

Anyway, nice on Fraser, you've guaged that well. Not.

Heartless Curmudgeon

Um . . . a fundamental error Frazer - which negates your entire hypothesis, - namely, The Great Economic Pretender raised countless UK children OUT of poverty! It don't exist no more! innit! (or have 'living standards (huh!) risen so much since His demise that UK children are again plunged into poverty?)

michael

Ostrich poo.

Alex

Good post Fraser.
But the most striking thing about the data is that it indicates (IMHO) how poor Chinese respect education while poor white people don't. Why is it 'cool' to be thick?

Stephanie Tohill

Your column in the Telegraph is spot on as is this piece.

We have a race obsession when instead we need to deal with out class issues and the wide variation in outcomes between people from different socio-economic backgrounds.

Wilhelm 1

Jord 666

I will grant you permission to be wrong this one and only time, but don't you ever do it again.

RocketDog

Fraser. Ah were it so. It is wishful thinking like this that has landed us in this mess in the first place

Rhoda Klapp

There is of course NO correlation between race and intelligence, any more than there is between heredity and intelligence or intelligence and poor outcomes.

Of course. That survival of the fittest thing applies only to fruit flies, not people.

Stephanie Tohill

" And we know most gangs, where there are different ethnic groups do tend to have a racial or ethnic identity. There are Tamil gangs, Somali gangs, white gangs and black gangs. If you are denying that you really don't cut it."

He doesn't deny that, but as he states the gangs draw from people in their area. So if an area has a majority black population so will its gang as they are comprised of local kids. Rather different to such a situation in the US where one's race is an important part of gang membership. The same is not at all true of the UK

DavidDP

"So how did this come about?"

Well, a mummy and a daddy loved each other very much.....

Seriously, without a vote in parliament, people of different races shouldn't procreate? Bizarre.

EC

Austin Barry, January 6th, 2012 2:14pm

On race, Fraser seems to have been sired by Pangloss out of Pollyanna and running blinkered.

The blinkers being required ever since he felt at the first hurdle in the 2009 Neathergate Stakes.

Frothy

Jez

A link for the White pensioner incident? I can't recall it. And evidence the riots were black in execution? The data shows otherwise.

Rhoda

Bell curve b0llocks, long since refuted.

Dean

@DavidDP

What I obviously meant was; How did we get from being British to being the most diverse society on earth without being asked for any sort of mandate?

When the Nice treaty was signed it granted admission to people from the 'accession eight'. That's Poland, Lithuania, Latvia etc.

We didn't get a referendum on it, the Irish did. When the Irish voted the wrong way they had to vote again. I honestly don't know which is more embarrassing.

Tom B

Excellent piece, Fraser. It is good to see hard data used to debunk the race alarmists out there, both on the left and far right. This is the kind of analysis that there needs to be more of.

Cynic

"not least from those asking (understandably) what a white guy like me can know about racism" Are you really accepting that being white you cannot experience racism, Dan?

Cynic

"One fifth of British under-16 are now categorised as mixed race." Labour's policy as exposed by Neathergate is working to plan, then?

Tom B

Rhoda Klapp writes, with painful sarcasm:

"That survival of the fittest thing applies only to fruit flies, not people."

What makes you think that anyone knows who is among the "fittest" at a certain period of time? We only know with the benefit of gazillions of years of hindsight which species survived and which did not. To use the language of Darwinism to bolster certain debatable claims about IQ right now is laughable. It is also, as any serious scientist knows, very foolish to make extrapolations about data snapshots at anyone period of time.

As I said, this is an excellent article, and it is about high time that the more thoughtful people on the right began to confront the alarmists on these issues.

Dennis Churchill

The vested interests of a billion pound a year industry and career structure will never allow the acceptance that racism is not rife.
As for surveys, the climate of fear generated by the hysterical overreaction to an 18 year old murder that involved throwing out centuries of legal protection ,not to mention the treatment of Ms.Emma West, the woman on the tram who was imprisoned and had her child taken into care following the uploading to You Tube of her anti-immigrant rant, hardly encourages honest replies to questions about immigration or race do they?
This is not the 1960s when we believed we had a right to hold unfashionable political views.

Jez

Well said Dennis.

Tom Pride

Your Telegraph article was the first article or post by you which I gave up on before reaching the end. Maybe I was worn down by the crap I have read and heard during this past week – but it seemed to lack any passion, as if you were just going through the motions, seeking to dreg up and then overegg any evidence for your proposal that racism is an ‘almost-vanquished evil’ and we can now focus on poverty alone. It was as if you were trying to impress but without inner conviction for the subject. Result – boring.

I couldn’t care less about the colour of my boss (whom I presume is educated and has risen through talent) nor who services my car (he’s black, charming and excellent) - it’s almost an inane question. But, how about the current levels of third world immigration or who mugs me on the street? I witnessed one particularly brutal attack since when I have understood the relief of one Jesse Jackson “There is nothing more painful for me at this stage in my life, than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery—and then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.” Lucky he didn’t tweet it.

There are issues where race is still an issue and others where it is not – you takes your pick. I hope you are not expected to be an intellectual version of the Riddell.

P.S. Your question “So where is the British Colin Powell” was answered by a letter to the Telegraph some while ago now – it was a British General who rose through the ranks from nothing around the opening turn of the last century. But that was before the cultural Marxists got hold of the education system. (You can google him – I can’t be bothered). As always the Americans are late.

Edward McLaughlin

In what way, on what grounds is it 'understandable' that a white person should be considered as having no knowledge or experience of racism? Perhaps not an everyday thing, but for a white person living in any of our main areas of population, being subjected to racist remarks and gestures, is familiar and widespread.

Honestly, if you really do take the arguments of your 'critics' as a given Fraser, then you are wildly out of touch with the current milieu.

In trading on such assumptions, by allowing them to continue to stifle the awareness of all, you occupy ground not very far removed from the learned and egregious Ms Abbot.

Simone.S

Fraser, as with your Telegraph article,you are assuming that racism was/is a purely white British thing. The survey's questions also make that assumption. The white British are becoming a minority. It's not our attitudes that will matter in the longterm.

You don't mention the survey's other findings either; that Britain is moving towards the right eg. You haven't mentioned the results on things like welfare. The young are far less likely to want to fund benefits now.

Could it be that, as we are more diverse now, we do not feel a sense of responsibility towards those who are not like us?

You also can't compare the BNP to parties like the Dutch Freedom party or the Swedish Democrats. We have nothing comparable. We also don't have similar political systems and it is therefore much harder for smaller parties to break through.

disenfranchised

fraser, if i didn't know better, i'd say you've been offered a big job by milibean or cleggy and this torygraph article was simply a way of affirming your lib-left inclusive/diversity credentials.
but i think you could'nt be more wrong with your assertions, and time will prove me right.....

Tom Pride

That reminds me. Two police detectives turned up and questioned me and others who had witnessed the brutal attack. One of the officers was black. He asked me ‘What colour were they?’ I was speechless, like a goldfish – taken aback. I was embarrassed. What was PC and what was not? What did good manners permit? He knew and went on, ‘Darker than me, or lighter – more coffee?’ It broke the tension.

Did it matter to me that the detective was Black. No. Did race impact the interaction? Yes. Might it also do so if the roles were reversed?

Simone.S.

Stephanie:

"So if an area has a majority black population so will its gang as they are comprised of local kids. Rather different to such a situation in the US where one's race is an important part of gang membership. The same is not at all true of the UK"

We certainly do have gangs that are defined by race, and we have multi-racial gangs. We have both. Lucky us.

David Starkey mentioned that some whites have assimilated into black gang culture. You can see that as a positive thing, if you like. I'm finding it difficult to see it that way though.

Barry

"If anything, a wider ethnic mix in poorer areas meant that people trusted each other more."

How credible is that? Spend some time in Bradford.

Of course people claim to be racially tolerant, you fool, they don't want to lose their jobs or their liberty.

"Britain has levels of tolerance which defy social scientific understanding."

Well, there's your answer.

Dennis Churchill

Tom Pride
January 6th, 2012 4:47pm
“Wully” Robertson. Field Marshal Sir William Robert Robertson 1st Baronet of Welbourn, The first officer commissioned from the ranks to go to Staff College. A truly remarkable man in any age. I wonder if such a career is possible in today’s egalitarian times.
For some reason his list of decorations seems to trigger the censor.

Dennis Churchill

Simone.S
January 6th, 2012 5:06pm
As I have commented on before it is equality or diversity, you can’t have both, which is where Andrew Neather et al got it wrong.

Simone.S

"This has drawn some criticism, not least from those asking (understandably) what a white guy like me can know about racism"

I don't remember anyone asking you that, Fraser.
They asked if you lived in a multi-ethnic city, because if you did, you would know that the white British are now often the targets of racist attacks.

I know this from personal experience. A member of my family was attacked by a black gang.

I'm afraid you are very out of touch with the problems today.

Andy Carpark

Tom B 4:24pm
'What makes you think that anyone knows who is among the "fittest" at a certain period of time?'
You've put your finger on it. What do we mean by the fittest? The strongest? The cleverest? No. Weakness and stupidity everywhere abound. So by the fittest we can only mean those who have survived. Darwinism: That survivors survive.

I disagree with the remainder of your post. Nelson's article lives down to his usual specious standards. This guy would produce a graph to prove he loved his mum.

Tom Pride

Dennis Churchill
January 6th, 2012 5:39pm

Thanks. I’ve made a note this time.

URAllPigs

@Austin Berry - your comment serves only to justify the arguments made in the original article. The sub-intelligence you display has nothing to do with your race, rather your lack of class.

Simone.S

"One fifth of British under-16s are now categorised as mixed race."

These are mostly, as you said, Afro-Caribbean/white English children. In other words, similar Christian cultures.

Race may not be such a problem, but culture most certainly is.

There is very little intermarriage between Muslims and the white English, for instance.

You can't really write an article like this without mentioning culture, particularly with the rise of the EDL, which is mainly an organisation of young people.

Simone.S

"It is now pulling out of the capital, and repositioning itself as a Midlands-based anti-Islamic party. It wasn’t the courts that forced the BNP to drop racism, it was the British voters"

Religion/culture then, Fraser. Isn't that the problem today?

Not poverty.

Simone.S

"...the most tolerant country on earth."

Where did you get this from, Fraser?

Countries like Sweden, Denmark, and the Netherlands were said to be the most tolerant. More so than the UK, but we know what has happened there recently.

Cynic

@Stephanie Tohill "We have a race obsession when instead we need to deal with out (sic) class issues and the wide variation in outcomes between people from different socio-economic backgrounds." I thought the sainted Tony had decreed we are all middle class now? Actually, it's not so much a class problem as an education problem. In the old days, bright children (whatever their class) were educated to public school standards and ethos through grammar schools, hence we had social mobility. That's stalled since the wonderful concept of comprehensives has held sway. Also the rise of fatherless families reliant on the state hasn't helped. Children spend more time in their families than they do at school.

Scotty

There is no paverty in the Uk - some people are less rich than others but, with our very very generous benefit system, all can be housed, clothed and fed. Maybe they cant go on fancy holidays abroad or eat out every night, but that is surely not poverty.
Has anyone actually been to a 3rd world country and seen real poverty - old women living in empty oil barrels begging for a morsel to eat. Thats poverty and that is unaccepteable.

Hexhamgeezer

Mr Nelson this is bollocks on so many levels, but many posters here have already pointed out the errors of your boy in a bubble world view. However, ask yourself this; If your establishment mates in the metropolitan/intellectual multiculti fantasy land you inhabit are so confident of the existence of this diverse Nirvana, why do you feel the need to bang up the likes of Emma West the moment they speak heresy in public?

Prankster

One day we'll look back on this article and oh how we'll laugh.

Verity

URAllPigs writes to Austin Berry, complaining of "the sub-intelligence you display ...".

Speaking of sub-intelligence, whatever the hell that means, may I refer you to Austen Barry's name, which is appended to his post. The first name has six letters only and you couldn't copy it correct. One letter wrong out of six. The second name has five letters, yet you couldn't copy them off the screen correctly. This time, five letters and one copied wrongly. Two words out of two words spelled wrongly.

What does this tell us about your intelligence?

Austin Barry

URAllPigs

Dear Pigs,

Your baleful attempt at a double insult reminds me of Christopher Hitchens's riposte to a similar piece of idiotic invective, and that you are "a man who, having relieved himself in his own hat, makes haste to clamp the brimming chapeau on his head.”

Roger Angove

So it's not about race?
Try telling that to Emma West who is still imprisoned awaiting Crown Court trial for her 'racist rant' while Labour's Negro bigot continues to draw salary and 'expenses' as part of the government of a country whose majority indigenous population she openly holds in contempt.

Redneck

Mr Nelson

I normally enjoy your articles but I found this jarred with my own day- to- day experiences.
As many others have indicated, fear of even mentioning someone's race for fear of reprisal, has manifestly stifled sensible debate.
This island cannot cope with current levels of immigration; the soul & nature of the UK has been lost. This has occurred without the natives' consent but we are gagged from even hinting at it.
If you genuinely feel that an overwhelming multiculturalism is a good thing then you hold views which I think are very different to the majority.

JohnBUK

Returning to your main point that "poverty" is the issue here, vis poor education, are you saying ALL poor people are badly educated? Or could it be that some actually end up well-educated and finally lift themselves out of poverty?
The trouble is giving people the "poverty" excuse is unlikely to make things better.
Perhaps lack of responsibility is an issue here.

Jez

I originally posted this on the Wall.

It is about what's happened / happening to Emma West. It is a damning indictment towards any notion that 'all is well'.

Jan 4th 2011..... Emma West, the girl who was incarcerated and then eventually released for speaking out of term in a public place has been given bail and will appear at Croydon Crown Court on 17 February.

Single Mother of one is to be chraged with; Quote- 'intent to cause fear or provocation of violence after a passenger, Ena-May Eubanks, said she hit her left shoulder with a "closed fist".'

Ms West pleaded Not Guilty and is reportedly to have said that she wanted a trial.

In a trial both sides of the argument will be scrutinised, with the 10 or 15 people on one side and this girl on the other. The approximately 15 people most probably would be eventually be cross examined under oath, police statements etc, etc. As an opinion, all of them should relish this chance to set the records straight and why this altercation happened, why the young man behing jumped up behind Emma aggressively, why the film maker decided to film this and seem to laugh but not intervene.

We should welcome this- because the truth will then hopefully be discovered what happened prior to this film and after this film.

The situation now in this country dictates a costly and time consuming Crown Court trail to understand why a girl had an argument on a Tram- and whether there were provocations toward this girl from others- and the exact details regards this new peice of evidence, e.g. when 'she (Ms West, allegedly) hit her left shoulder with a "closed fist" can be made public.

This is why all those names, in every town and village across the land are etched on the side of Cenotaphs, isn't it?.....

Fraser. The Machine seems scared. So scared it cannot actually bring itself to tell us who's doing what- anyone who is White British that speaks out of term in ruined, attacked or imprisoned.

Jez

She's at it again!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/228844/Diane-Abbott-in-cabbies-are-racist-stormDiane-Abbott-in-cabbies-are-racist-storm

Racist NuLabour.

frederickdixon

Fraser's article in the Telegraph contained one glaring error which tended to reduce the credibility of his entire argument i.e. that one child in five is mixed race. That is a wild exaggeration - a recent celebratory "mixed race Britain" season on BBC2 provided the following interesting statistics: 23% of children live in lone parent families but 38% of mixed race children do so,8% of children in lone parent families are mixed race. From that it is possible to calculate that the actual proportion of mixed race under 16s is under 5%.

Was this a careless error? Or a deliberate over-egging of his pudding? I don't know but at least he manages, just, to avoid repeating the deception in his Spectator piece.

This may seem a small point but as race-mixing is often held up, as it is by Nelson, as an indication of anti-racism at work in the most profound way, it is a very important small point.

As for myself, I am both old and deeply "racist" in that I believe that traditional national, cultural and racial identities are worth preserving. I would therefore be deeply depressed by Fraser's piece if I had not very recently become involved with a group of active and dedicated - and best of all, young - patriots whose view of these matters is very different from Fraser's. They have very interesting ideas for the future.

daniel maris

Stephanie -

I can only assume you don't live in London, because in London every area, every borough, just about every street has a mix of races and yet we still have ethnically based gangs. The only difference I would say with America is that there isn't quite the overtness about the race element. However, think about it - apply Fraser's argument to teh USA - residentially they are more segregated than over here. So it is - according to his argument - perfectly natural to have Black,White and Latino gangs in the USA.

As an analysis of gang culture it's about as useful as a wet tissue for blowing your nose.

Incidentally what are commonly called "Black" gangs in London have always been to a certain extent mixed race because
they draw mostly on people with some Caribbean connection, and due to sexual exploitation of slaves, of course a lot of the people from the Caribbean are in reality Afro-European as much as African.

Tron

I'm late to this post but Fraser, you are wrong on this.
Watch that girl on the Croydon tram on Youtube. How does she feel about her country? The Liberal Elite don't care about how she feels a foreigner in her own capital city. They just lock her up.

Dave N

Why were the comments stopped on the DT article,Fraser? Couldn't be that you were taking a verbal battering, could it?

Kevin

An enduring problem of racism may be illustrated by reviewing Diane Abbott's recent Twitter remark: "White people love playing 'divide & rule'".

Miss Abbott appears to refer, not to Finns or Swedes, but to British people. And not "white British" - just British. Establishment commentators love to challenge us with the question, "Who are the British?", as if there is no such race (or no such races as English, Scots and Welsh). But the British races are clearly (pejoratively) identified by Miss Abbott's comment. After all, if "British" is no more than a nationality, it can refer to Poles as well, but the latter are clearly not the target of the Tweet.

It is probably the denial of this British ethnic identity that most rankles with the British people. In the above posting, Fraser refers to "Afro-Caribbean men" and "black Brits". This gives some black people an association with three different parts of the globe, two of them indicating ethnicity. The term "white British" needs an equal ethnic qualification. I suggest just using the term "British", and understanding from context whether that means ethnicity or nationality. A mixed race child can then be identified as half Afro-Caribbean and half British, with no need to analyse the colour of his skin.

Perhaps to test whether racism is absent from this country, you should try asking "British Asians" whether they would mind having an "English" boss. My guess is they would not. The real test is whether a British journalist can bring himself to utter the question.

URAllPigs

@Verity
You need to check your own spelling of Mr Barry's names before calling me out on my mistakes. Looks like you're wearing the poo-filled hat he refers to in his fabulous riposte!

Dirty Bull

Fraser Nelson creates his own reality.