What today's immigration numbers tell us
Melanie McDonagh 3:56pm
During the leaders debates before the last general election, David Cameron declared that
he wanted to make immigration a non-issue and he would go about it by reducing immigration numbers from hundreds of thousands a year to tens of thousands a year. He hasn’t succeeded in the
second objective — more than half a million people arrived here in 2010, only 30 per cent of whom were from the EU — and he most certainly hasn’t succeeded in the first. At least
if the reaction to today’s revelations about immigrants on benefits is anything to go by.
Chris Grayling, minister for employment, and Damian Green, immigration minister, wrote an article for today’s Telegraph to reveal that 371,000 immigrants were claiming benefits as of last February — it sparked a lively debate (at the time of writing there were 2,494 comments on the paper’s website on the story, the nature of which you can imagine).
As the ministers observed, most of the people claiming benefits were entitled to do so and of 9,000 claimants from outside the EU investigated by officials, just two per cent may be making false claims. It’s not a big percentage in the great scheme of things. As the BBC hastened to make clear on its website, that meant immigrants — or people who were foreign nationals when they first arrived here — made up 6.5 per cent of the total of 5.5 million claimants, proportionately fewer than resident Brits. And as the BBC also made clear, half of the claimants then went on to obtain British citizenship or indefinite leave to remain.
I’d buy into the argument myself that if just 125 people from abroad are fraudulently claiming benefits, that’s not a terribly big deal, though I’d be a little surprised if that were the final figure. Then again, as the ministers observe, it’s remarkable that no-one took the trouble to align immigration figures and welfare claims until now. It’s hard to have a decent debate about welfare tourism without numbers.
It would be interesting to get a reaction from Vince Cable, Lib Dem Business Secretary, to the statistics. He has waged a spirited campaign against a cap on immigration, on the grounds that this would deprive British industry of a reserve of talent which would otherwise migrate to more liberal and welcoming nations. He speaks warmly about the university professors and IT specialists that British institutions may not be able to bring here because of a cap on non-EU nationals. What he ought perhaps to acknowledge is that this undoubted body of talent which has enriched the polity isn’t wholly representative of the half million people who come to Britain every year; there may in fact be quite as many welfare claimants as university professors among them.
That figure of half a million — actually, it was 591,000 last year — is under-publicised because the only figure that matters politically is net migration, viz, the number of people
coming here less the numbers of Brits leaving; that amounted amounted to a quarter of a million, or 252,000, in 2010. And it’s net migration that David Cameron promised to reduce.
But the welfare claimant figures are worth scrutinising because they tell us something about the only figure that matters in this debate, viz, the number of people coming to Britain from outside
the EU. Of the 371,000 claiming benefits, the majority are from outside the European Union, though the ministers don’t give percentages or any indication whether we’re talking Somalis
or Romanians. Poles are, then, unsurprisingly, more likely to be working than on the dole. And that’s in line with the fact that non-EU nationals also make up 70 per cent of overall
migration.
The other interesting fact tucked away in the report is that more than half the 371,000 claiming benefits had since their arrival acquired British citizenship, or the indefinite leave to remain. That deserves close scrutiny; it may tell us about the Government’s overall failure to control immigration. Because, as Frank Field and Nicholas Soames MPs made clear in their study of immigration policy, there has been a tendency for the right to work in Britain to come with a near-automatic right to citizenship; that doesn’t happen in Germany.
Perhaps the most remarkable feature of the debate has been the world-class chutzpah exhibited by Chris Bryant, the Labour immigration minister. He says the situation will only get worse due to lax border controls, rising migration and increasing unemployment. ‘Tory ministers are resorting to rhetoric and misinformation to hide the reality of their failures on immigration and unemployment. Far from strengthening immigration control the Government is returning fewer illegal migrants and net migration has continued to increase.’
Ahem. Some 3.2 million people came here during Labour’s time in office, that is, between 1997 and 2009 — and that’s the gross figure. (The rough estimate for illegal immigration during the period is between half a million and a million.) During this time, about half a million National Insurance Numbers were given out to East Europeans and some 300,000 people came here from the old West European EU states, making roughly 800,000 in total. In other words nearly two and a half million people came to the UK from non-EU states under the last government. I’d say that on this one, Messrs Miliband and Bryant should lie low.
Previous
Dean
January 20th, 2012 4:18pm Report this comment'That figure of half a million — actually, it was 591,000 last year — is under-publicised because the only figure that matters politically is net migration, viz, the number of people coming here less the numbers of Brits leaving; that amounted amounted to a quarter of a million, or 252,000, in 2010. And it’s net migration that David Cameron promised to reduce.'
So, if you take 6 apples out of a basket and replace them with 6 oranges, that doesn't matter because it's still the same?
Slim Jim
January 20th, 2012 4:57pm Report this commentWhat the numbers tell us is that the political class in this country have totally and utterly fecked up immigration policy. Labour's underhand and criminally negligent actions are proving difficult to reverse, like many other policies it seems. Cameron knows that it is near impossible to stem the tide with his hands tied behind his back by EU rules and the poisonous Human Rights Act. Frankly, it doesn't matter where they are coming from, it's the magnitude and projected impact that does count. Not forgetting the expansion of the welfare state and the number of people not gainfully employed in this country. The political party that proposes an intelligent, coherent and sustainable policy for immigration will do well.
Heartless Curmudgeon
January 20th, 2012 5:00pm Report this commentDavid Cameron declared . . . He hasn’t succeeded
Tells us all we need to know Melanie, - about this, the H2B, - and much, much more.
(However, as we are looking after more and more O/S people here on benefit, - so we can drastically cut the O/S 'Aid' scam)
Rhoda Klapp
January 20th, 2012 5:14pm Report this comment3.2 million in twelve years, then 591,000 in a year, and we are blaming Labour?
Either this administration intends to fix it and cannot, or it pretends to fix it and will not. Either way it is a failure and a betrayal. What do they plan to do to fix it?
TomTom
January 20th, 2012 5:14pm Report this commentHow do you legally become a British Citizen living on benefit ? A legal spouse of a British Citizen cannot claim for 2 Years, so it can only be Illegal Entrants who can claim and get British Citizenship or Indefinite Leave to Remain.
Why is this ?
Wilhelm 1
January 20th, 2012 5:17pm Report this comment'' What the immigration figures tells us. ''
It tells us that it was a waste of time winning the Second World War, while 60 years later to be invaded, over run, occupied by primitive African and muslim barbarians.
One is reminded of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.
Kittler
January 20th, 2012 5:29pm Report this commentWhy are people expecting reduced immigrant numbers? Sounds suspiciously socialist that. No immigrants in or out N Korea nor any in the former East European regimes.
Don't the right believe in the free market, in global commerce.
Want to regulate and to deprive business of its right to access cheap and plentiful supply of an essential commodity..labour.
Dr OLU OJEDOKUN
January 20th, 2012 5:31pm Report this commentWihlem,
Your statement simply goes to highlight the extent of your ignorance given fuel by your antagonism towards other races!
Where were you when the slave raiders (not traders) and colonialists pillaged and destroyed civilisations such as Benin, Yoruba, Ghana, Sudan etc… The truth of the matter is that many non caucasian British contribute to the growth and well being of this Kingdom in the same way as other British who happen to be caucasian.
Winston
January 20th, 2012 5:36pm Report this commentIt tells us that the political elite continue to shaft the British people.
Jarrod
January 20th, 2012 5:40pm Report this commentWhat today's figures tell us:
Look to your kin.
EC
January 20th, 2012 5:52pm Report this comment'' What the immigration figures tells us. ''
There is no political will to control immigration. The tri-party cabal don't have an immigration policy, they have a population replacement policy. In the Netherlands, thanks to Geert Wilders, they have really got to grips with asylum seekers. (only 11,590 in 2011)
According to the ONS a quarter of births (25.1%) in 2010 were to mothers born outside the UK. It's a demographic time-bomb. i.e. we're completely fucked.
Herbert Thornton
January 20th, 2012 6:09pm Report this commentWilhelm - It's much worse than the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. That was eventually followed by the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.
This time our civilisation is being swamped not by Christianity but by Islam - and under Islam neither a Renaissance nor a New Enlightenment will be possible.
The only point on which you & I differ is that those who take over of our birthplaces will not include Black Africans. They will be just as much victims as us: their fate will be the same as ours and that of the many Black Africans who have already been exterminated in Sudan.
joe conchy
January 20th, 2012 6:18pm Report this commentIt isn't surprising as the things that attract illegal immigrants and benefit tourists are not controlled. The NHS does not require proof of eligibility so I know of both US residents and Indian sub-continent residents coming for major procedures and even renting properties for months or staying with relatives. We give citizenship far too quickly. We allow Commonwealth citizens to vote without reciprocity for UK citizens . Do you rember the case of the official in the UK High Commission in Lagos found guilty of taking dash for visas? I need to go on? The UK has to accept that controlling non-EU immigration will be very unpopular in some quarters but necessary to maintain a truly British society with the standards we value.
Halcyondaze
January 20th, 2012 6:30pm Report this commentWilhelm, Herbert, EC - SPOT ON!
Only history will tell us precisely when the tipping point occurred - it's either happened or it's about to happen - but this country will never be the same again. Most of the demographic extrapolations suggest that within one or two generations the indigenous population will be out-numbered.
When this occurs, are people seriously expecting that we're all going to sit around hugging each other while our social norms are subverted and our fragile infrastructure buckles and then finally collapses?
No - there will be spiralling unrest. Those with the money to do so (who are mostly responsible for foisting this mess upon us) will disappear in the night. It will be the people who aren't protected by money who will be left behind to try and stand up for themselves and their children in an increasingly Islamised, African / Asian dominated society.
And still there are people telling us that immigration is a good thing?! Open your eyes...
Pot Head
January 20th, 2012 6:47pm Report this commentBlimey. Cameron's recession must be really bad if immigrants are having to claim benefits..
Wilhelm 1
January 20th, 2012 7:27pm Report this commentDr OLU OJEDOKUN
'' The truth of the matter is that many non caucasians contribute to the growth and well being of this kingdom.''
Well Doctor OLU, is there NO sick black people you could help in Africa ? or are you just a parasite ?
Instead of pretending to care about the welfare of whitey, are you more concerned about lining your OWN pockets with money while your OWN African country rots ?
TomTom
January 20th, 2012 7:38pm Report this comment"Where were you when the slave raiders (not traders) and colonialists pillaged and destroyed civilisations such as Benin, Yoruba, Ghana, Sudan etc"
The Slavers were other African tribes selling prisoners to Arabs, then Portuguese. The British HALTED Slavery and even blockaded the port of Rio de Janeiro to make Brazil stop in 1888 !!!!!
Wilhelm is right. Britain did NOT win wars, it made a world safe for Soviet Marxism and made Stalin the Lovable Dictator in its propaganda.
Anglo-Saxon
January 20th, 2012 8:48pm Report this commentNo it is not like the fall of he Roman Empire, even though the Marxists have aimed to replicate this and bring down European Civilisation. See what Kenneth Clarke had to say at the end of his Civilisation series in 1969. European Civilisation will fall if we lose confidence. Well the Marxists have made us lose confidence through a massive brainwashing exercise. Leon Trotsky invented racism and anti-racism to this end. As regards the fall of Rome, other Europeans ( Germanic tribes ) were rapidly Christianised and Europe recovered. In Europe, the US and other countries of European settlement we now face Caucasians being minorities in their own countries. We have reached the tipping point in many European countries and the US. Bloodshed is now inevitable. Norman Tebbitt said Englishness was an ethnicity so we are talking about race replacement, deliberately so. But who will save us as Europeans are now Pariahs. There can be black countries, brown countries and yellow countries but white countries are deemed to be taboo so they will disappear from the face of the earth along with the most advanced civilisation in the history of mankind.
Anglo-Saxon
January 20th, 2012 9:15pm Report this commentThere are reasons to believe that a repeat of the fall of Rome is exactly what has been planned for European Civilisation but this time the barbarians will not be our fellow Europeans who were rapidly christianised and assimilated. They will be alien by race, culture and religion. Watch the end of Kenneth Clarke's Civilisation series. In the final episode he said that European Civilisation will not fall if we do not lose confidence in ourselves. This was the Marxist plan and it is working through a massive brainwashing exercise equating European Civilisation with evil even amongst our own youngsters. Leon Trotsky invented the terms racism and anti-racism. Now we face the prospect of the English ( an ethnicity according to Norman Tebbitt ) being replaced in their own country and the same goes for many other European countries and those of European settlement. Caucasian children are already in a minority in the U.S. Bloodshed is inevitable and the first world will descent into the the third. The tipping point is close for all these countries and the French have just about given up and have been told to intermarry with their immigrants ( who will not remain muslim of course ). By the way, according to Clarke, Islam also did for the Roman Empire. To those who have come here in the last 60 years, who have been used by others to replace us, I say as Enoch Powell did, return to your homelands and help them to achieve the same levels as European countries. As things stand there will be black countries, brown countries and yellow countries ( no multiracial agenda there ) but no more white countries and if European Civilisation goes for good God help the rest of you.
Jez
January 20th, 2012 11:07pm Report this commentWilhelm,
we had to go up against the Nazis because any Jew or 'undesireble' would have been murdered East of the River Bug and then if probably the War had spread, even without the British Empire involved- the murder rate would have exploded.
I know all the arguments inside out, read the Protocols stitch up etc and realise that Karl Marx was a.... kraut- but must conclude; Britain had to do what they had to do.
The Cossack handover was a travesty of justice maybe- but saying that it was a waste of time winning the second world war as an opinion, is not true.
We are where we are. Time to recognise what the f*ck is happening and look after our families and utilise the best health outlook our kids have ever had, good education and best living standards- whilst dodging all the third world tidal wave hitting our inner cities on a monthly basis.
In the past, proud to be British, lots of flag waving and sense on identity = shit living conditions, high child mortality, and zero life prospects.
Now if White British- inevitable replacement, establishment prejudice but good health prospects and if sought, excellent education progression.
You've got to look at you family now and look after them.
F*ck the governments obvious plan to sink the place into the third world.
Downtown
January 20th, 2012 11:32pm Report this commentWhat today's immigration numbers tell us is that successive governments pretend to be tough on immigration but they actually are not at all.
Why have these rules in place if there is no intention of enforcing them? It looks more than possible that people with visas stating "no recourse to public funds" are in fact obtaining recourse to public funds. A sovereign government has a duty to all those who pay taxes and raise families here to ensure the people being permitted to live here are going to contribute to this nation, or are genuine refugees, or actually meet established criteria. to do otherwise makes a mockery of the law.
If people who have indefinite leave to remain or are citizens are now on benefits, they are entitled to do so and thus it is irrelevant to the debate.
It is nothing to do with race. Bringing race into it is incredibly tiresome and merely used as a way to shut down those who have legitimate concerns.
Titus Salt
January 20th, 2012 11:47pm Report this commentIt is clear from these figures that the UK economy is addicted to immigration like a junkie to heroin. A period of cold turkey is needed, and fast. Don't hold your breath though...
Wilhelm 1
January 21st, 2012 2:16am Report this commentDowntown
'' It is nothing to do with race !! Bringing race into it is incredibly tiresome.''
if it has nothing to do with race, would you buy a house in a black ghetto ? or a white leafy neighbourhood ?
Since the dawn of time, human beings have been tribal and territorial, we like to be around people who look like us and sound like us.
Birds of a feather flock together, like goes with like. Multiculturalism is going against nature, bit like mixing oil and water, it just doesn't work.
Wilhelm 1
January 21st, 2012 2:23am Report this commentJez
Britain didn't go to war to save jewish people. Britain declared war because Germany invaded Poland.
Jan Cosgrove
January 21st, 2012 5:18am Report this commentTitus Salt, who's addicted? Why the firms who tell us they have to have a free labour supply. Why do they want one with such an influx from outside, EU or not? If you were someone who believed s/he'd get a better life coming here to work, you'd move if the need was strong enough. Capital needs the free-flow of labour, it seems to like a large pool of unemployed people also, only some of whom can/will claim benefits. I bet there were benefit cheats in Ancient Rome, also tax dodgers of whom we still hear, for the size of their avoidance, far too little.
daniel maris
January 21st, 2012 5:21am Report this commentIt is an appalling state of affairs.
The political elite have really sold the nation's birthright for a mess of pottage - to please the CBI and bankers or garner some votes.
The sad reality is that mass immigration is destroying our infrastructure and loading unsustainable costs on the nation.
The author of this post really betrays a kind of wilful ignorance. Does she think that the 300,000 people from the "old West European states" as she puts it are really people who have absorbed European culture. The reality is that they are more often than not Muslims of Pakistani, Algerian,Moroccan or Turkish origin with German or French passports.
The survey doesn't tell us how much immigrant communities established in the UK rely on the welfare system. We are constantly told mass immigration benefits us but I question whether any credible cost-benefit analysis has been undertaken, bearing in mind that each new "net" immigrant needs housing, transport and health services.
Roy
January 21st, 2012 6:22am Report this commentThe very fact that outsiders are claiming benefits off the long standing, over roasted, British taxpayer is a disgrace. When all it needs is a stroke of the pen. A simple inspirational look at who is looking after who. Since when is the British taxpayer responsible for the dregs of other peoples society, for their welfare, and the care for their extended families? Are our political masters completely off their rockers? How long can they continue? They will pauperise the long suffering, long mesmerised taxpayer. They have to reduce his benefits so they can give to the newcomers. This goes unnoticed since it is done by evaporation of values, and a calm patronising smile from the all knowing convener of tricks. How nice to be British and so Crazy?
Jez
January 21st, 2012 10:13am Report this commentWillhelm.
I know what we went to war for.
I also have a pretty good idea what the German Goverment from 1933 onwards wanted. My opinion- I don't sign up for that.
As a point of interest for everyone on this right now, if we think that the third world populations that are the majority in many places now (and their offspring) could give a f*ck about British history, the second world war what our forefathers sacrificed everything for then prepare to be very dissapointed.
As an opinion, the newcomers see us as self hating closet racists with a history that imprisoned people like Mandela, enslaved millions and we deserve everything that's coming to us- e.g. our eventual replacement here. This is reinforced by the BBC, teachers unions, the liberal establishment etc, thus the exceptioanlly unfair two tier sentencing trends by our judiciary.
TomTom
January 21st, 2012 10:13am Report this comment"Britain didn't go to war to save jewish people. Britain declared war because Germany invaded Poland."
But did NOt declare war on the USSR which invaded Poland on 17 September as Hitler's Ally.....see how lovable Uncle Joe was to the British !
Jez
January 21st, 2012 11:20am Report this commentWhat people seem to forget is that Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechoslavakia were well and truly shit on by the Germans- this was before 1940.
The eastern Ukraine was shit on. The Russians who were over run- thus freeing them from Stalin were shit on too.
The German policies were a disaster for them, the people they subjigated and for Europe ever since.
TomTom
January 21st, 2012 12:44pm Report this commentJez, your language is foul and inappropriate. You are OTT. It is not Britain's role to fight everyone's wars, it is an obligation to protect and preserve what is predominantly England from destruction. Britain manufactured a reason for war in March 1939 because of Chamberlain's vanity; Colonel Beck lied to him; Chamberlain went to war over Poland knowing Stalin was backing Hitler, and Stalin got EVERYTHING Hitler was refused in Central Europe including Austria.
Jez
January 21st, 2012 1:51pm Report this commentTomTom.
Ridiculous. Look at Germany in 1938/9. Look at a map from then. I have many.
There were many not wanting a confrontation here and allegedly it was only after the raid of the 7th September 1940 that the British public fully backed the War with Germany.
How can you equate the Sudetenland sell out / travesty as us 'seeking confrontaion'?!
In September 1939, the eve of Germany's attack on Poland- the Third Reich practically had the territorial clowt of the Holy Roman Empire- and still they wanted more.
Jez
January 21st, 2012 1:51pm Report this commentThe Second World War was a disaster for everyone except the Reds and the Yanks- we commited suicide as a power- and we're now tormented on a daily basis being spoon fed our own destruction as an Island people by multiculturalists, psuedo Marxists and fat twat City types.
The War started off as an Empire checking the aggressive territorial aspirations of resurgent German Reich- it ended as a very, very unfortunate battle for what was right.
The British and US should have taken out Communism in 1920 with the White Russians- or the dying hours of the Second World war in Europe- unfortunately Japan was still on the radar, fighting to the death.
If in 1920 the Communists (sponsored by Imperial Germany three years earlier no less!) were actually stopped then millions upon millions upon milions of Europeans, Africans and South east Asians would be alive today.
Anyway, immigration = rubbish.
Hexhamgeezer
January 21st, 2012 2:13pm Report this commentSince 1997 onwards we have been subject to the greatest act of treachery this nation has ever, and will ever, see. Cameron and his legions of fellow travellers will do nothing to even ameliorate this; why would they? They endorse it with the biggest of Big Lies that this immigration has benefitted the indigenous population.
There is more to a country than nurses and foreign food.
Verity
January 21st, 2012 3:10pm Report this commentDean - Well observed. Thanks.
Verity
January 21st, 2012 3:41pm Report this commentRhoda K - I have been asking "Has ever a country been so betrayed?" for two or three years now. A deliberate ceding of our ancient country, that our ancestors fought and died for, and suffered shortages and penury for, bravely ... only to be betrayed by their own government.
And, needless to say, the ultimate penalty for treason, hanging, slipped quietly off the books ...
Verity
January 21st, 2012 4:03pm Report this comment"Dr" OLU OJEDOKUN - Thanks for the first laugh of the day my time! The ancient civilisations of Sudan, Ghana, etc, eh? Oh, yeah, I remember reading about them in the history books, right up there with the ancient civilisations of Greece, Rome and Egypt.
Just to remind, the slavers were/are Arabs, aided by the Africans who kidnapped people from their own tribes. The British Navy intercepted them on the high seas and sent them back.
As we know, the Arabs are still slaving today, a lot of it in Eastern Europe and, of course, Africa.
Jo Conchy - "We give citizenship far too quickly." Unlike the US, where you have to have had a Green Card for five years (and you don't get the lunacy of having a vote during that time!) before even thinking about applying. Mexico, where I live, is the same. You are on an annually renewable pass and you have to go down to Immigration each year and re-present all your papers and provide a financial update, with proof, to make absolutely certain you are not going to be a burden on Mexican citizens.
The evidence leads us to believe that this swamping of our ancient, successful, familial civilisation was deliberate and malicious.
Verity
January 21st, 2012 4:12pm Report this commentCommon Purpose and The New World Order.
This is a treacherous, coordinated attack on Caucasian civilisation.
Jan Cosgrove
January 21st, 2012 8:29pm Report this commentJez
You and Verityu (living in Mexico) trot out the same old tripe, about betrayal by .... liberals, commies, lefties, multuiculturalists etc. You miss the economic truths of why and how this has happened, is happening and will continue to happen. The quest to maintain the rate of profit = propping up nasty regimes, undercutting wages (including 'free flow of'), using child labour, letting gangster capitalism loose etc etc. The growing gap between have and have-not, everywhere.
Until people see it for themselves, it won't change. When it does, then maybe we'll see a British Spring, and it won't be indigenous whites v the rest, it will be the young, the angry and the determined. I'm two of those. Colour and race won't matter, getting a just society will.
Feeling sorry for yourselves, which is always the tone of your type of contribution, doesn't help, it diverts attention. Harking back to history (always a distorted one) likewise. What we are now we made ourselves. I don't rate Mexico as a role model, nor the USA.
Jez
January 22nd, 2012 12:36am Report this commentHook line and sinker Jan.
Well done.
"it won't be indigenous whites v the rest"
That is the mindset of the pond you frequent.
It wont be the 'indiginous whites versus the rest'..... it will be the failing sectors of the multicutural experiment against the sectors of society that are seen by them to have 'what they want'.
The sectors of our society that gets special attention were the ones attacked in the Summer riots- and there was no racial stamp on any of them. It was a spasm type lash out by the failing people to a world they expect to owe them a living.
This 'revolution' may be manned by middle class students wanting a free ride and white, black, mixed race, Asian no-marks that will burn out after three nights of burning and looting- whilst the rest of us make plans to f*ck off with our families to countries that appreciate hard working tax paying contributors.
Herbert Thornton
January 22nd, 2012 12:57am Report this commentJan Cosgrove (Jan 21st 8:29pm) -
You seem to have a very incomplete view of the situation. No doubt a great deal is amiss, but the most ominous threat by far to our civilisation is the expansion of Islam.
Islamists think along the same lines as did Lenin when he referred to liberals and such, including what you call the 'angry and determined' as - "Useful Idiots".
Malfleur
January 22nd, 2012 1:04am Report this commentMelanie McDonagh
The next time that you have a chance to speak to the editor, please ask him to screw his courage to the sticking-place and let us have the article which he promised on Neathergate.
Heartless Curmudgeon
January 22nd, 2012 10:22am Report this commentNe'r mind folks! The H2B and his Amazing (multi-colour) Dream Policies will save us! Only believe, O people of little faith!
alexstuart
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