What does it say about our society that abortion will now be advertised on TV?

Ed

Choice. Choice. Choice. We live in a free country, and people should be allowed to plan their family lives without fear of religious bigotry interfering.

There are hundreds of more important issues. Studies show that having unwanted children does no good for the crime rate / education of a country. Abortion is a sad, but necessary tool for the people of this country.

paulus

About time anti abortionists were allow to show on TV what legalized infanticide is about.

Paulus

daniel maris

Isn't it odd: the one thing that people are not allowed to see performed on TV is - an abortion. Every other operation or "procedure" has been dwelt over lovingly and broadcast to millions. But we can never see an abortion. Now,it seems, you won't be able to view an abortion but you will be able to see an advert offering abortions.

You can tell a lot about a society by what is considered taboo.

Magnolia

So much for The Big Society, welcome to The Sick Society.

David Lindsay

If you won't advertise abortion, then don't allow abortion.

To cite only one among many possible examples, will these adverts mention Marie Stopes's extravagant, versified love letters to Hitler? Or that she disowned her own son because he married a woman who wore glasses? Or her campaign for the compulsory sterilisation of "the C3 population", of "half-castes" and of "revolutionaries", among numerous others?

Or the dozens of clinics that she opened in working-class areas to reduce the number of "undesirables" by persuasion if force were politically impossible? Our 50p stamps recently carried her image. And we all carry the shame.

MaxSceptic

David Lindsay,

Thanks for reminding me about Marie Stopes.

Sterilisation is indeed the way forward for curtailing the burgeoning underclass. Benefits provided only with compulsory sterilisation of both males and female welfare recipients will solve this problem within a generation or so.

Geoff

"What does is say about our society"? Is seems to say the writer cares so little for his audience and his subject that he can't be bothered to check his work before publishing it. That's what is says to me.

Edward Sutherland

"Post-conception advisory services": the euphemism to abort,sorry,"terminate" all euphemisms.

Holly ......

Surely they can't advertise something without showing what it is.

It will be interesting to see how much of an outcry there is about this compared with the forrest sell off,HS2 & Boris Island???

Feminists have done a fantastic hatchet job on women....Look how far we've progressed.

Rhoslyn Thomas

@ MaxSceptic,

I assume that the only reason you were willing to admit this opinion of yours is because you are hiding behind your computer screen.

What it says about our society is that we have no respect for human life and that we are now willing to freely advertise this for all and sundry to see. The 8 million children who have been killed by abortion in the UK since the 1967 Abortion Act are testament to this disrespect.
If people think that these abortions clinics will be advertising on television because they really care about women or because they want first and foremost to advertise their other services, then they should think again. Abortions make big money, condoms and smear tests do not. As much as they like to talk about 'choice', they need a certain amount of women to make one choice only: to end the life her unborn child with an abortion. At the end of the day, doling out advice and contraception is not going to pay the staff wages.

Chris

Woah. Perhaps one of the most partisan pieces ever posted here?

Hexhamgeezer

Who needs kids when we've got a ready made supply of adult overseas labour without the need to bring up our own.

It seems a mighty strange argument to allow the destruction of humans on an industrial scale for the most trivial reasons but to be sqeamish about advertising the fact.

In our straitened times I suggest they kick off with some 2 for 1 deals.

Jez

This country is fucked.

That is what it says.

Kennybhoy

Maisters Maris and Lindsay.

Well said boys and God bless you both.

Fergus Pickering

Heavens, David Lindsay, I had no idea she was such a ghastly woman. Makes you think it was a pity that....

Jeremy

James,

There is probably more mendacious cant talked about the subjects of abortion and assisted dying than about any other. And I'm afraid that your post is no exception.

bojimbo

Catholics need not apply . ( Unless you are curious ) .

Mudplugger

Not too long ago, opiticians never advertised, now we've got Specsavers. Not long ago, solicitors were not allowed to advertise, now we've got InjuryLawers4U. Some good, some bad - that's life.

Abortion provision is just another personal service - if it's legal, there's no reason why it should not be advertised. After all, it's not compulsory - it's an option which some appreciate having available.

The decision to abort a baby is not easy (been there, done that) but there are times when this is the right answer, so knowledge of the available services is a valid topic for advertising. It will not make the decision any easier, but may make sourcing the resolution less troubled.

Frothy

'What does it say about our society that abortion will now be advertised on TV?'

Given that it won 't, nothing other than the author is creating a straw man .

jonah stiffhausen

Free country? You jest surely. Murder has always been a criminal offence, whether committed by man or woman.
Get with the program.

Kennybhoy

Fergus Pickering.

Check out the American version Margaret Sanger.

wrinkled weasel

Perhaps one day we will become more civilised. After all, we once put homosexuals to hard labour, did not allow women to vote and supported slavery.

In each of these cases the mob were not in favour of reform.

It took visionaries and people of courage. It does not take much courage to ignore the practice of abortion as a life-style choice and it takes even less thought to support the status quo.

The status quo for abortion is a market place for murder. It cannot be right.

Ed

What on Earth has this got to do with "assisted dying"?

Fergus Pickering

It's not as if abortion was invented in the 1960s. Rich people had abortions whenever they felt it was convenient. Now everybody can have them so the figures are much bigger. The law existed to stop poor people doing what their betters did freely, rather like the Victorian objection to Sunday trains or the modern one to cheap flights.

Amanda

I agree, James. And I'm an atheist who thinks that early in a pregnancy -- not late -- it should be permitted.

Trev

What does it say about our society that abortion will now be advertised on TV?

It say's the sooner we can eradicate the indigenous people of this country,the sooner we can all be Islamified.

Amanda

Geoff, my friend: It's just a typo. Why be so hard on the man? He's got a point.

TomTom

Be interesting to see what programmes host such adverts and what products are advertised in the same slot.....yet you cannot advertise alcohol or cigarettes or guns or religion or political parties

MaxSceptic

Rhoslyn Thomas
January 21st, 2012 7:19pm

@ MaxSceptic,

I assume that the only reason you were willing to admit this opinion of yours is because you are hiding behind your computer screen.

Not so. I prefer to maintain my anonymity - or rather privacy - online.

In 'real life' I happily spout off my opinions to whomever is willing to listen to them (or even when they're not so willing...).

I don't express my opinions of the underclass directly to members of the underclass as this would be gratuitously insulting (complex concepts being difficult to comprehend) - but mainly because I prefer to avoid all interaction with them where possible.

Vince Meegan

It saddens me that we as a society have come to the point that the termination of an albeit nascent life is treated as another product to be marketed. It diminishes us as a species that we kill our own progeny even before they are born.
I am not advocating a return to back street abortions but a change in fundamental attitude to life, and that begins at home and school.

Sir Everard Digby

As usual you miss the real point; our 'society' has had precious little say in this matter. The corporatists rule and want everything to be a commodity. 'Tis but another example of this. Of course confusing it by including moral arguments helps to hide the miserable truth.

Edward McLaughlin

Approximate number of healthy babies killed without even taking a breath = 6 million since the introduction of UK legalised abortion. More to follow.

An ageing society, unable to pay for its own upkeep.

Approximate number of foreigners shipped in to take up the slack = 6 million. More to follow.

If we won't be bothered making the young people required by the nation, then someone else will oblige.

Those who bemoan the fact of immigration, need to own up and realise it's our own fault. If we had made and raised the babies into young people, they would now be occupying all the space the immigrants now fill. Those are the pragmatic effects of this 'trade'.

But more importantly, it is wrong; the worst crime we could enact. Described by Mudplugger above, as 'just another personal service', it is in truth, the only service which drags, shreds, sucks and skewers the life out of partly and even fully formed foetuses. Our youth sluiced into a lab bucket. No great fuss there then.

starfish

Faux outrage does none of you any credit

I suspect you would all be on the barricades if a ban on advertising other morally dubious (to one lobby group or other)products or services was proposed

Pork products?
Satanist novels?
Life of Brian DVDs?

Shame on you all

Anna Brown

What does this say about the our society? Simple: that it's a capitalist society. Anything is fair game for profit -- this should hardly be revelatory. Private companies are free to provide and advertise their services within the law. Abortion is not like other services, but then neither is psychotherapy; abortion is not a choice to be taken lightly, but then neither is voting, which is also advertised. Capitalism works best when it provides us with informed options. On balance it is better to have knowledge of safe legal abortions than have to resort to unsafe illegal ones (and countries where the procedure is illegal actually have a higher abortion rate). Ofcourse it is even better not to have to face the prospect of an abortion at all; thus instead of wasting time objecting to the advertisement of abortion, it would be more constructive to push for the advertisement of contraceptives.

[cont'd]

Anna Brown

The author seems to be arguing from a moral standpoint, that advertising abortion is morally wrong. The underlying assumption here is that abortion is murder. But an early term foetus is not an individual -- it is incapable of surviving outside the womb. If the argument is that the foetus has the potential to become an individual, then should we not ban masturbation for the reason that each sperm has the potential to become a human being? Some 10-20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, and certain miscarriages are caused by progesterone or thyroid deficiency -- which are preventable -- but no one would accuse a woman of manslaughter because she failed to take these supplements. Sometimes the mother's body rejects the foetus via abnormal immune response -- is this also murder? Some mothers die in childbirth. Should we be up in arms about this murder of the mother by the child? Is an adult human being less important than a foetus?
[cont'd]

Anna Brown

The author seems to be arguing from a moral standpoint, that advertising abortion is morally wrong. The underlying assumption here is that abortion is murder. But an early term foetus is not an individual -- it is incapable of surviving outside the womb. If the argument is that the foetus has the potential to become an individual, then should we not ban masturbation for the reason that each sperm has the potential to become a human being? Some 10-20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, and certain miscarriages are caused by progesterone or thyroid deficiency -- which are preventable -- but no one would accuse a woman of manslaughter because she failed to take these supplements. Sometimes the mother's body rejects the foetus via abnormal immune response -- is this also murder? Some mothers die in childbirth. Should we be up in arms about this murder of the mother by the child? Is an adult human being less important than a foetus?

Anna Brown

Shouldn't we instead be protesting against advertising for the Armed Forces (or any company within the military-industrial complex), which really do murder people?
Which brings us back to the moral aspect. Morality is the glue that holds society together. Murder is mainly wrong because it is a social ill, not an individual one. If we agree that under some circumstances collective murder, in the form of war -- or individual murder in the form of the death penalty -- is a social good, then we largely give up the prerogative to condemn abortion on the grounds that it is murder. Population control and the prevention of the birth of children into a life of suffering (as another commenter has obliquely pointed out) can be construed as social goods.

Anna Brown

Perhaps the real moral issue is the fact that almost all advertising uses sex to sell products? When sex is made so banal and the pressure to indulge in it so great, perhaps it should not be surprising that abortion is made banal likewise?
None of this is to say that I personally approve of abortion -- I know that it is not a choice that I could ever make. But I feel compelled to point out that there are many more profound and complex issues to be considered than in this unnecessarily alarmist and superficial post which contributes little to the debate.

Anna Brown

[Apologies for the multiple post above, not sure how it happened -- hopefully the moderator will remove]

Benton Marder

I remember reading a novel many years ago; it was set in Britain. Children had long ceased to be conceived and born. The population was dying out. Yes, the gods had made women sterile because the people did not want children. I can see this coming about in real life as the culture of death embraces life. 'Final solution'?

Kevin

Abortion is never a moral option, but I appreciate your concern for moral seriousness.

Anna Brown

As for Mr McLaughlin's remarks, they hardly merit a rebuttal, but the 6 million immigration figure is clearly pulled from thin air. Net immigration is about 100,000 per year ('net' means immigration minus emigration; a large number of people leave the UK every year, the traitors). Since the introduction of legal abortion in 1967 it would total about 4 million. Now, here are some slightly more relevant figures: The unemployment rate currently is 3 million. The number of people living entirely on benefits is 7.2 million. It's a pointless exercise in the hypothetical, but according to Edward's logic, seems like there wouldn't be many opportunities for those 6 million murdered youth after all.

Magnolia

Anna Brown
"But an early term foetus is not an individual".
Pathology examination of the products of a 'therapeutic' abortion show pieces of easily recognisable tissue such as muscle and bone and brain matter.
I think there are many, many people in this country who have been frankly brainwashed in to thinking that an early abortion is not somehow the destruction of a complete (in anatomical terms) human being.
I have no wish to upset anyone who has had an abortion and the overall rates are staggeringly high (one in three women I believe) but just because something is common and there is a social conspiracy to 'normalise' it does not make it anything other than profoundly wicked to me.

LibertarianLou

That's how capitalism works. Sometimes stuff you don't like gets advertised and sold to people who do like it.

LibertarianLou

Paul - "About time anti abortionists were allow to show on TV what legalized infanticide is about."

Perhaps they should be allowed to, yes. In fact do you know if they're currently not allowed to, or what stops them?

How do you know "what it is all about" if it's not allowed to be shown?

LibertarianLou

"I don't express my opinions of the underclass directly to members of the underclass as this would be gratuitously insulting (complex concepts being difficult to comprehend) - but mainly because I prefer to avoid all interaction with them where possible."

You can't tell someone's social background just by speaking to them, you know. Certainly you can't tell their parents' social background - which in this discussion (forced sterilisation) is of much consequence.

And believe it or not, rather a lot of people who aren't members of the "underclass" would also find your views offensive and idiotic, because of basic decent compassion.

LibertarianLou

Benton Marder

Don't worry, the population is rising.

Perhaps you should read The Handmaid's Tale, instead...

LibertarianLou

It's about consistency, you can't advertise BAE Systems on your website then complain about abortion being advertised on TV, sorry.

Hexhamgeezer

starfish @ 22nd,11:39am

Equating abortion adverts with those for pork products?

Which local authority employs you then?

starfish

"Equating abortion adverts with those for pork products?

Which local authority employs you then?"

None

I simply observe that every product will probably offend someone - personally I find society's obsession with hair care products offensive

I don't see why this is so uniquely wicked

Hexhamgeezer

starfish @ 6:08pm

Equating abortion adverts with those for pork products?

Which value system considers those of potentially equal immorality then?

starfish

Who suggests your value system is better than mine?

Abortion is not illegal as are lots of other 'morally questionable' activities advertised in the media (depends on your value set as to whether you wish to be outraged or not)

It wouldn't be so bad if the professionally outraged were consistent

Edward McLaughlin

Anna Brown

The figures are correct as from 1967. Ignore the facts if that's what supports your case.

They were put to death and others took the place that they would have occupied.

Osmosis of suffering.

Hexhamgeezer

starfish @ 3:41pm

How about addressing the question.

Apart from yourself. What type or group of people considers that an advert for a pork product could be as equally 'immoral' or offensive as one for abortion?

Anna Brown

All I have to say to the men commenting here is that men do not have the prerogative to dictate what happens to women's bodies (unless they are the father, and even then). A man always has the choice whether to compromise his freedom, the course of his life, for the sake of a child. Absent abortion or birth control, women do not have this choice.

If you would outlaw abortion, then please, make it illegal for men to run away from their responsibilities towards the child.

Here is some good commentary on the advertising debate from last year:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/20/abortion-advert-outcry

Edward -- I'm sorry but I fail to see how others took their place. Explain please how the adult population arriving in the UK each year is 'replacing' the babies who aren't born that year? Are they expected to go and toil in the mills as soon as they're out of the womb?