Cameron softens his stance on Europe — but who benefits?

Rhoda Klapp

The weak in westminster, Brussels edition.

Publius

"And while Hague did go on to suggest that the government would take legal action should Britain's interests be subsequently imperilled" etc.

All predicted. Nauseating all the same. And 'legal action' where? In the corrupt self-serving Euro-court, where respect for the law comes a distant second to political expediency and back-room deals.

Time and again we now hear that this or that EU action is "technically illegal", or contrary to treaty. Yet what happens? Nothing!

Obeying the law is for the poor schmucks like us. This Euro elite break the rules with impunity, and then change them retrospecively.

Once again Cameron snatches defeat from the jaws of victory, no doubt with the connivance and manipulation of the quisling Clegg.

emale

"‘Britain is going to give the eurozone the benefit of the doubt so it can put its house in order.’ Which is to say, we don't want to seem like the wrecking crew; the country that prevented Germany, France and all the others from reaching the solution of their dreams. A coalitionist tried to assure me earlier that this will not only help us now, by giving Angela Merkel the means to bolster Europe's economy, but also in future, by giving us more space to fight on ‘the issues that really count’....."

I seem to have heard all this before and the EU and its members just pocket the concessions Britain offers and give nothing in return. Whatever happened to the reform of the CAP.

It's time to play hardball with these people whose recklessness has brought a continent to the edge of a financial abyss.

DavidDP

From what I understood, the UK concern last time was that the French introduced additional requirements which the UK would be subject to. This doesn't appear to be the case this time, so why not let them go ahead if they want? If others want to do this, it's surely within their perogative; I'm not sure we should be dictating to otehr countries any more than they should be dictating to us.

Russell

Presumably the UK will be getting back some of the rebate Blair and Labour gave to other countries in the EU, as the facilities are not paid for by the 27 EU countries to carry out any exclusive work for 17 eurosone countries, those 17 should contribute the deduction the UK is entitled to.

Rhoda Klapp

I suppose any sentence beginning with 'Cameron softens' was going to stretch credulity. Couldn't get any bloody softer.

Heartless Curmudgeon

Away with the H2B and EUSSR shilly-shallying!! He is no more use than a flat tyre! (and with characteristics to match)

The nauseating stench of hypocritical PR hype and tripe from this creature as he yet again slithers away from his duty is a blot on Britain and his honourable forbears.

Austin Barry

I can’t stand the man or the EU, but objectively this is not a bad tactical move by Cameron.

The eurozone is in a death spiral and the Irish are just around the corner ready to put the boot in when their necessary referendum is called.

Andy Leeds

In my experience you should never give the Continental Europeans the benefit of any doubt. They would murder their own mothers if they thought they could get away with it.

I'm beginning to think that Cameron bears the impression of the last person to sit on him. Rather sad.

Cynic

So another U-turn then. I read elsewhere that Hague said he'd received assurances that France and Germany wouldn't stitch us up (my rather loose translation). I'll believe that when I see it.

Liz Brown

Who's going to suffer? Why, we, the poor bloody foot soldiers are - again. And Cameron has now blown any chance he had of winning the next GE outright
Stuff the EUSSR troughers. We must leave the EUSR and look elsewhere for our fortunes

Douglas Carter

...the 'ol 'we won't let it lie there' stance... Where have I heard that before.

All news to delight the swivel-eyed, fruitcake EUphiles.

tom jones

Usually a big supporter of Cameron, but at the moment we've got a PM who doesn't get the economy growing, is borrowing more than Labour would've and who makes a song and dance about standing up to Europe and then quietly gives in and hopes nobody notices. It's a joke and I've lost lots of respect for Cameron/government today. I hope our backbenchers play hell because I for one am sick of being led on.

Halcyondaze

It's so predictable it hurts.

This man is a Trojan horse - how much more evidence do you need? He beats the drum over here because he knows the strength of feeling against this anti-democratic anti-British monster, meanwhile he continues giving away our power and your money and further yoking us into impotent subjection.

Why do we stand for this? Why do we stand for being lied to and misled so contemptuously? This government is controlled by left-wing, anti-British, pro-EU careerists with no principle and no backbone.

The issues people care about most - the economy, immigration, the EU - they are actively making things worse. And anyone who predicted this was screamed down and smeared as a swivel-eyed extremist.

If it didn't hurt so much I'd say the British people deserve every social and economic nightmare that's heading their way. Except for the fact that the ones who should be held to account will be long gone.

And shame on William Hague.

Verity

Rhoda K - Touché! Both posts!

Verity

Might I suggest that although a coalition was a wise and considered move during WWII to make sure everyone was on the same team, such should not be legal during peace time.

Verity

If a party cannot win an election outright, that means they lost. David Cameron lost.

He has absolutely no democratic mandate to be occupying Downing St.

The next rational government we get, if ever, needs to hammer this into the Constitution. Only elected governments.

That Nick Clegg is Deputy Prime Minister of Britain is beyond Monty Python.

teledu

Agree with you there Halcyondaze.
When will our politicians realise that the only way to get owt out of our EU partners is to be as tough as a robot's crap after 2 months on the Atkins diet!
Being nicey-nicey and expecting them to do us favours in return is for losers, and has been shown to be for losers often enough that you'd think our political class might just have got the message.
Maybe one day Cameron will look over his shoulder at the UKIP vote and get a whiff of what the British really want.

Hexhamgeezer

Who benefits? Not us - ever.

Quisling turd

David Lindsay

No one outside the media ever did fall for any of this. The following Thursday, Labour won the Feltham and Heston by-election with an eight per cent swing from the Conservatives.

Believing oneself born to rule is not the same thing as being any good at it. Cameron cannot begin to cope with people who cannot even distinguish, still less are they intimidated by, an Etonian accent.

Cynic

"The eurozone is in a death spiral and the Irish are just around the corner ready to put the boot in when their necessary referendum is called." I think both you and I know, Austin, that the Irish will be made to vote again until they get the right answer, just like last time. Either that or they will be ignored like the French, Dutch and Danes. I agree with Andy Leeds on this one; you can't believe politicians at the best of times, but whereas our politicians are nominally supposed to act in Britain's interest, other countries' politicians definitely won't have our best interests at heart.

Barbara

So now we know Cameron as no intention of keeping another promise to protect this nation. Hague, Osbourne are other reckers. We canno trust them at all. These from the Tory party, the party of the nation, some party. I was going to vote for the Tories but not now. My vote will go to UKIP, and I'd advice others to follow suit.
Today was the a hard blow for all who wanted a free country, another blow for those who thought Cameron would bring powers back to England, he's telling porkies, he's got no such intention. I disair and wonder where we'll be in 10 years time, living in surfdom under German rule, or free.

Peter From Maidstone

Verity, Party Politics IS the problem, not the solution. We should be voting for people who represent their constituents in a broad sense, not people whose first loyalties is to an anti-democratic organisation.

Boudicca

Well this was hardly unexpected. Cameron vetoed nothing: the Treaty is going ahead and he can't even hold the line over use of EU Institutions WHICH WE PAY FOR only being used for EU matters.

What a pathetic, useless spineless lump of lard he has turned out to be.

Nigel Farage must have broken out a bottle or two today. I just hope it wasn't Veto Beer at Wetherspoons .... that'll be off the market before you know it. Perhaps instead we will get Quisling Ale with a picture of Cameron on the bottle.

William Blakes Ghost

IN EUROPE AND PISSED ON BY EUROPE!

Fabian Solutions

David Cameron is a weak and chinless effete public schoolboy. He is unable to defend British interests in Europe.

Cameron's naivite and alliance with extremist Eurosceptics in Poland and the Czech Republic have left him isolated and weakened.

Gordon Brown wasn't always liked by his European counterparts, but they respected his heavyweight intellect and negotiating ability. Brown's "great big clunking fist" was wielded in Britain's interests, to carve out a better deal for this country and increase our influence in Europe.

Thanks to Brown, we kept our most important vetoes in the new Lisbon Treaty, such as in the areas of justice and home affairs, and Brown also vetoed the EU's attempts to impose a VAT hike across Europe.

In contrast, David Cameron is seen as effete and ineffective by Sarkozy and Merkel. They feel able to ignore or brush aside the former PR man with contempt.

Ed Miliband has pledged to defend British sovereignty and defend our interests in this fast-changing European Union. Miliband offers a middle path between the frothing isolationists on the Tory Right and the fanatical integrationists such as Nick Clegg.

As Prime Minister, Ed Miliband will ensure that Britain remains at the heart of Europe without compromising our sovereignty.

Only Labour can defend British interests in Europe.

Only Labour WILL defend British interests in Europe.

By voting Labour, you will be helping to ensure that together we can forge a better deal for Britain within the EU.

Tarka the Rotter

Fabian Solutions - the Voice of Airstrip One.

Verity

Fabian Solutions ... Quite a yawneroo.

Verity

Fabian Solutions (how dated that name sounds!!!): By voting UKIP you will be helping to ensure that your beloved company regains its independence on the world stage and can deport large swathes of undesirables without taking account of the opinions and interests of France and Germany.

David Lindsay

I am afraid that Fabian Solutions is right. Whether in Brussels, in Washington or anywhere else, Brown was not always liked, but he was respected. Whereas Cameron is seen, entirely correctly, as "effete and ineffective".

As for Cameron's allies in the EU, Polish social conservatives, Czech supporters of economic development and Latvians who still resent having been signed away to Stalin by Churchill deserve better than David Cameron. If it is British allies that they want, then they deserve a proper Labour Party. Where is it?

Remittance Man

So Cameron talked big and strong for the home market and then buckled when it came to facing his eurochums. How unsurprising.

stephen bennetts

If as Cameron said it was in our national interest to use the veto in December,how can it now be in our national interest to allow the Euro zone contries to have access to the EU institutions such as the courts ? .I'm confused !!!!

michael

Appeasement ... now there's a negotiating tool with a glowing track record.

(and body count as testament to the suffering it inevitably leads to)

Publius

@David Lindsay
"Brown was not always liked, but he was respected."

Not by me, he wasn't. He was a corrupting lying psychopath who has brought this nation to its knees.

George Shepherd

Triangulation in action!!!

Just enough sceptic to get a good Daily Mail front page

Just enough compromise to get back "in" with Merkozy

A few smooth words and well rehearsed firm hand gestures to make it seem like this is a mature response in troubled times

#thisismodernpolitics

Hexhamgeezer

Fabian Solutions @ 30th 10:41pm

Is that a draft document or are you hoping to catch someones eye with that?

I love the stuff about defending Britain. I hope it was meant as a bit of a joke and not a calculated insult. I guess it was the former as you stuck in the phrase about 'remaining at the heart of Europe etc etc'. Absolutely no-one with any sincerity, or older than 17, can utter that hackneyed old treachery and believe it.

David L

Publius at 9.28. Amen.

On balance I think Cameron's right not to stand in the way of using EU institutions. Germany's about to throw Greece overboard, and Portugese 10-year bonds are yielding 17% (!). The contagion has already taken hold of the periphery of the eurozone - like fiscal gangrene. If Cameron insisted on the veto, it would be so easy for the eurozone leaders to blame him for the storm that's approaching.

Ghengis

Brownites - Lost "Respect" is not relevant, the exposure of his legacy now defines how he is regarded.

Scary Biscuits

David L, what was the point of the veto in the first place? If it such is a good argument to keep our heads down and let them go bust then why did he veto the treaty? Inconsistency is something that has plagued Cameron throughout his whole leadership.

BTW, German is not about to eject Greece if they can possibly help it. The German people might hate giving their hard earned money away but the elite have no such qualms as their build their Fourth Reich.

SteveS

I am a died in the wool Eurosceptic, but I think DC had no choice here. He can't risk us getting the blame for a collpased Euro currency. The fiscal agreement is not going to hold in practice, especially in volatile countries where revolution rather than protest is increasingly likely with only year upon year of crushing austerity to come. The Euro can't survive without the growth it is never practically going to attain, except in the most core of core countries.

We need to keep buying time, so we can deal with the bust when it comes. It will be horrible - and we simply won't want to have reached that point with France and Germany pointing in our direction that the failure was casued by us blocking their austerity treaty.

I hope Tory backbenchers will see sense on this.

Publius

David L writes to Publius (10.09am)
"If Cameron insisted on the veto, it would be so easy for the eurozone leaders to blame him for the storm that's approaching."

Actually, David L, I don't give a damn what the eurozone leaders think or say. They would be better off looking at the beam in their own eye.

Mark my words, the UK will end up being shafted as a result of Cameron's latest bit of PR-spun weakness.

That is the calculation that the "eurozone leaders" (whoever these shadowy figures really are) have made, and they are right. They have the measure of Cameron, alas.

...And so, too late, do we.

Barbara

Who benefits? Cameron.

Hague is also talking weasel words here. He says they would take action ("We would not let it rest there', perhaps?) if Britain's interests were threatened, but, since he equates Britain's interests as being the same as those of EU ('a strong eurozone is in Britain's best interests'), that can - by definition - never happen.

Deepsnoozer

@tom jones: How did Cameron ever even earn this "respect" you've now lost in him?? Hasn't he always been a weasel??? You must have been pretty gullible in the first place mate. Welcome to the real world!

Halcyondaze

Please take ACTION:

Write to your MP

Visit peoplespledge.org

Sign the EU referendum e-petition

Let the spineless cowards, europhiles, appeasers and careerists of the three main parties know that they just can't get away with selling us down the river any more!

Cameron has revealed himself to be the fork-tongued coward most of us always knew he was. We want OUT with this breed of inexperienced, PR-obsessed, left-leaning politicos and IN with men and women of experience, courage, principle and patriotism.

The gap for saving this country is narrowing all the time...

David L

Scary Biscuits and Publius, you may be right (or I may be).

But I get the sense that Germany is finally losing patience with the Greeks - who appear to have done sweet FA to tackle their fiscal incompetence.

And, as has been the case right through the euro crisis, the markets are moving faster than the euro-crats. Portugal is on the brink of needing a second bail-out, and its economy is tipping into deep recession, so its deficits will also rise.

I agree that the German government seems to be prepared to pay almost any price to save the euro, but there's a limit to what the German Parliament (and the German courts) will allow. Hence Merkel's refusal to issue eurobonds.

The euro's running out of road.

As to Cameron's wielding of the veto, well, to be kind to him, I'd say he did it to let the French and Germans know that he would stick to his guns on matters such as the transactions test. If I were being less kind, I'd say he used the veto to play to his backbenchers.

But Cameron's position, whether politically astute, or flip-floppery, isn't the issue. UK vetos or acquiescence won't affect the core issue facing the euro: ie the fact that it is fundamentally flawed, and the EU's efforts to save it have been inadequate in the short term and non-existent in terms of any possinble long-term future.

Bolton Wanderer

Can't see why anyone is surprised that the net result of the much lauded veto is that Britain achieved nothing!! By contrast Germany knows exactly what it gets out of the Euro e.g. an exchange rate that values the euro against the pound at about half what they would get if they reverted to deutschmarks.