An Israeli strike on Iran?

Robert Eve

If Israel acts it will get my support.

dercavalier

I have always believed that Israel would start the first world nuclear war. And I still believe that.

Colin Cumner

Iran, like several Middle East countries, is a highly volatile nation and any strike made against it by Iran or even the United States is likely to provoke strong retalitory action. Given that Iran also now possesses nuclear capabilities, such a scenario could trigger what we in the West have always thought of as unthinkable - an all out nuclear conflict.

Heartless Curmudgeon

Well Danny, - I guess in the absence of any meaningful action by your Baroness and her myriad EUSSR jobsworths ensconced in Brussels, the only state prepared to do anything to help itself, - and the West, - is the State you mention.

You should be grateful, - sooner or later.

AAE

Part 1 (for the benefit of the technology here)
jez - I've already commented with brevity on Korski over on The Wall today, but I found what you said here not only deliciously enjoyable, but very much more seriously to the point.

Frank P

Colin C (11.21pm)

Iran have not yet got the capability; that is why it is important to make sure they never get it; a preemptive strike is the only way. Don't be such a wimp. A cowering West will very rapidly become a conquered West. Grow a pair!

Frank P

Douglas Murray told the Cambridge Union a year ago:

http://www.melaniephillips.com/test

It doesn't add up...

Do you even know that Iran is about to hold elections?

Herbert Thornton

Has the possibility ever been considered that Pakistan might covertly put several of its nuclear bombs at Iran's disposal?

The possibility of this may sound remote, even unthinkable. But is it?

Richard of Moscow

Well said, Jez.

Korski is too cowardly to say boo to a blind, disabled gosling, hence the masturbatory fantasies about lobbing missiles from a safe distance at nasty, politically-incorrect nations.

Korski is as sick and diseased as any Mullah

Colin Cumner

I see I made a typo error in my posting. Should have read 'any strike made against it by ISRAEL' not Iran.

FRANK P - Easy to say if as I think you reside in the U.S. Wonder if you'd be quite so 'gung ho' if the shit actually piled up on your front porch. I agree we should never appease an aggressor but this militiaristic posturing by Israel and her American allies does the cause of peace no favours. Give the sanctions a chance to work first. Oh yes, by the way, as a child I went through the London Blitz so I rather resent being called a wimp. Seeing total war first hand certainly makes you never to want to see another one. Remember 'jaw jaw' is always preferable to 'war war'.

Roy

I'm with Israel, whatever that's worth. They deserve more support from their fellow democracies. The wishy washy Europeans me thinks would rather turn their back on this front-line fighter. The cock will soon crow and a decision will have to be made, who will support truth and freedom. Or who will support the new world caliphate?

Nicholas

Whatever possessed the Spectator to allow the so-called 'Islamic Human Rights Commission' (!) to put a full-page ad (p.24) in the latest issue castigating the "colonial mentality" for the threat of war? It was nearly as unsettling over breakfast as the full page portrait of Heston Blumenthal on p.30.

Was it purely money or some misguided. bien pensant ostentation to appear "balanced" (usually a modern euphemism for a broad yellow streak down the back) by the schoolboy editor?

Nicholas

The Speccie used to be a reliably conservative magazine for reactionary old farts (you know, those gimlet eyed dinosaurs who in their youth put their lives on the line for the freedoms our politicians have since pissed away). What is it become now? New Statesman-Lite?

PS The cover art is terrible. Try a real artist instead of a computer technician.

Chris

Jez, I forced to conclude that your missus has confessed about Korski shagging her.

Mudplugger

The world has changed post Arab Spring (or Islamic Power Awakening, if we're being honest).
The sworn enemies of Israel are massing, not only on its borders, but across the piece.
The spread, scale, wealth and thus political influence of Israel's enemies are all growing by the month - the last 60 years have been a fools' paradise, surrounded by undeveloped neighbours and protected by the then omnipotent West. The game has changed.
If Israel were to launch a pre-emptive strike, it would be its last throw of the dice - the retribution would be total.
Israel will still feel compelled to do it, and then look round for someone to blame. We have been warned.

EC

"But a general rule of thumb, offered by my colleague Julien Barnes-Dacey..."

For anyone wondering who the hell Julien is...

*ttp://ecfr.eu/content/profile/C152

He's one of Korski's fellow europhilliac 'think' tankers. Here's a full list of 'em: *ttp://ecfr.eu/content/experts/

You can expect Fraser to hire any one of them any time soon!

Austin Barry

An Israeli strike on Iran?

Yes, please.

Jez

Right then Chris!

If it's a fight you want, then after school! See you at the embankment- if your not chicken! 'Bwaaark, Bwaark, Bwaaark!' (chicken noises)

But alas, you're right- although she said he was very crap- and Korski kept on loudly citing Napoleon's famous quotes in French- that as he was fumbling about trying to perform.

dercavalier

It is quite amusing to read the war mongering nonsense of the armchair warriors who frequent right wing sites to rant and rave. Many of them probaly schoolboys who haven't a clue what a real war is.
To be honest, I believe a nuclear weapon owning Iran would be a great step forward for peace in the Middle East because it would cancel out the bully boy, fox in the henhouse antics of Israel.

Patricia Shaw

Any commentary on this subject as uncritical as yours is no better than Goebbels explaining the backdrop to another slaughter.

When will this tiresomely Israel Friendly magazine show just a Modicum of objectivity?

Patricia Shaw

Frank P, Grow a Brain.

It's people like you that got the wall closed.

Austin Barry

dercavalier states:

“.. I believe a nuclear weapon owning Iran would be a great step forward for peace in the Middle East..”

And we can all agree, as long as the nuclear weapon which owns Iran is Israeli.

Geoffrey Dron

The Israeli attack should start with Tehran's ally in Lebanon. An offensive against Hizbollah should be initiated - a casus belli can always be found - in the Spring. The USA and UK must block any attempt in the UN to force a ceasefire. Delenda est Hizbollah.

starfish

"When will this tiresomely Israel Friendly magazine show just a Modicum of objectivity?"

When it occurs in the MSM and on the BBC in particular?

daniel maris

Israel - a lawfully estbalished N member state formed under a legal UN Partition arrangement - has every right to defend itself from existential threats. My only concern would be that it does not have sufficient power to prevail on its own. I think what is required is a naval and air embargo of Iran, an enforced no fly zone, and interdiction of all supplies - electric,water, road and rail to the various nuclear and related facilities.
To be continued until we get a change in Iran.

Dimoto

Barrack Obama on the come-back, the US economy showing strong signs of life (at least for now) .....

And he is about to spoil it all with a foolish attack on Iran ?

The warning to Iran not to close the straits of Hormuz, is out there and will be effective.

Some cockermamy "preemptive strike" ?

Nah, despite Israel's best offers to 'hold the US coat'.

In the UK and EU, we are struggling with the concept that the US is turning east, and doesn't care much about the Euro foolishness any more.

The band of loony pygmies who have seized (perpetual) control of the Jewish state, are even more in denial.

The US has other things on it's mind these days - even more so after the Clinton woman buggers off.

Frank P

Daniel

My friend Julien? As in polari? Where are you Hugh Paddick, Kenneth Horne an Kenneth Williams when you are needed?

My friend Dorothy didn't tell me about you Daniel.

Down, Andy Car Park!

[Think that'll do the trick, NFM-ers.]

Peewit

Austin Barry - I think you meant pwn. Right over the heads of most readers here.

So, meanwhile I'm glad to see that Nicholas - who previously was an aggressive supporter of this coalition government's systematic destruction of the armed forces - now talks about those people who put their lives on the line being sold out. How ironic.

dercavalier

Geoffrey Dron
Unfortunately for that idea. Hezbollah won the last time there was a barney.

Frank P

Colin Cumner

'ere we go again - stoopidware problems.
My response in instalments:

(1) You presume wrongly on so many counts that it's hardly worth responding, but the one presumption that I MUST put you straight about, is the 'we' in: "what we in the West always thought of as unthinkable”, in your first post above.

Don't include me in that 'we' mate, as it obviously implies 'pacifists' following the first person plural pronoun.

Frank P

CC

(2) The Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) strategy actually worked with the commies and defeated the USSR because the totalitarian leaders were fairly rational, albeit evil with it. The Mullahs and Armydinnerjacket are a different kettle of fish, which is why we have to preempt their apocalyptic evil. And by 'we' I mean those in the West with cojones - and ladies with courage also, such as Melanie Phillips, Diana West, Ann Barnhardt, Michelle Malkin, etc. etc. (including Verity and Anne WK of this Parish - just an example drawn at random from the NFM). And perhaps I should explain that the NFM is an English activist group, but not exclusively so. Austin Barry has full membership with dual nationality, for instance - an honoured official, indeed! Be aware also, that the Leader, Nicholas, actually displays justified anti-Septic (ha!) tendencies at times, particularly since our transatlantic cousins voted in Obama as their President. Ye Gods! There's little hope of the Manchurian Candidate sticking a fizzer down the Mullahs' Mountain Retreat, so let's hope the Israelis do it soon.

Frank P

CC

(3) The members of NFM, are allowed to differ in their views, of course. But if they disagree they will quickly put me right, for the essence of our activism is free speech; except in the case of Eddie the Didact, a peripatetic pillock, who has been blackballed as a special case and requires retraining. He claims to be a teacher and I am prepared to accept that, because he can’t spell. He thinks the boors suppressed black Africans not the Boers (ack. Augustus). :-) He's probably inadvertently correct btw, but he didn't know that. Now even I am feeding the troll. Sorry, Anne and Verity.

Btw Colin, I suspect I'm more elderly than even you, me old cocker. But if you show me yours I'll show you mine (the nuts are still there albeit a bit shrunken by prescribed Finasteride).

Frank P

The Shavian Agitprop Squad

Yes Patricky; I'm sure you'd like us all barred so that you can spew your pro-Arab, anti-Semitism here unabated and unobstructed. But like you we could if necessary return covertly if necessary. Meantime we'll overtly oppose you if the Speccie doesn't join you in your malicious campaign against Israeli existence. Let's hope Melanie's departure was more a legal technicality and her brave stand that resulted in her removal, rather than a BB political ploy. I sometimes wonder.

Frank P

Let's not get too esoteric Peewit.
We should all share the joke:

*ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwn

All argot goes round in ever decreasing circles until it finishes up discarded into its own dumper.

Kennybhoy

Jez on February 3rd, 2012 11:09pm and Richard of Moscow subsequent.

Maister K and I had this particular conversation yonks back. I doubt there is anything that can puncture his self-conceit.

Augustus

Frank P
February 4th, 2012 4:13pm -

Are we sure she's not a bearded lady?

Augustus

Bullies don't respond to appeasement with peace. They respond with escalation. This is true in the school yard, and it's true on the world's nuclear (and economic) stage, where the stakes couldn't be much higher.

Chris

Sorry, Jez, I make it a rule never to fight people who don't know the difference between 'you're' and 'your.'

Patricia Shaw

Frankly Verbal Ass Explosion methinks. It ll be fun reporting your squalid racism to the constwnt frustration of the poor ol speccie interweb crew.

Hey Fankly Hilarious, are Palestinians

a) rats
B) cockroaches
C) fish food

Spit it out Frankly Moronic!

Patricia Shaw

N F M

Nest of Fanatic Morons

Frankly Pee. We can smell you from here.

Geoffrey Dron

dercavalier - They didn't, and were only saved by the ceasefire. For the facts, see Martin Gilbert's 'Israel' at pp.639 - 642 and 645 - 646 plus the Winograd Report. It'll be a hard fight this time but the IDF will win and it's better got over before any war with Iran.

Barbara

There are 13,000 UN troops between Israel and Lebenon, but they are always flexing their muscles. As for a stike on Iran, well it might be a bit difficult now that Iran as missiles herself, they now hold a counterbalance. Iran it's self is not stable, it's hated regime is fragile. May be we should be supporting those inside Iran, not so much outside. Many countries talk the talk, but won't make any committments, look at Russia and China this very week, on sactions for Syria. Look at the support Germany gave us and the French over Libya. Freedom comes with responsiblity, and with a price, as we well know from ww2, but not all countries seek to uphold freedoms, but expect others to do the fighting for them. Just look at the lack of support from EU countries in Afgansitan. First sign of trouble they pull out. Some friends.
Israel gets my support, its fought for years to protect its self with success, we should support it all we can. Not like the last government who openly talked hostile toward them. There again what do we expect, we learnt much to late the ills of that regime we endured for 13 years.

MaxSceptic

Patricia Shaw,

From your constant need to run squealing to the authorities every time you consider something "offends" your tender sensibilities, it can be assumed that you regret not living in an earlier age when you could have gone running to your friendly neighbourhood Gestapo officer and told him just where those naughty Jews were hiding.

Redneck

Patricia Shaw

Whilst admiring your undying support, I can't help feeling that your convictions are so one-sided as to be extremist.
Do you think the Israelis are evil? Do you think Israel has a right to continue its existence?

Jez

Phew Chris. (or is it 'few'?)

Glad you blinked first. I was going to have to use a note from my Mum to excuse me from attending.

You win! x

Binra

Reading through these comments I sense a great lust for war - not merely in the political sense - but as the very basis of life.
Or perhaps more accurately - as the very basis of a personal identity.

Until and unless such identity is correctly identified, then it is 'as if' a deceptive spirit causes each to perceive everyone ELSE as either something to dominate, or as a threat. Such is a state of war, whether waged with sweet coercive charm or blunt and bloody force. No communications are real or trustworthy and no real relationship is possible with anyone or anything except your own personal thoughts. Yet there IS a presence of life through each and every one - and that presence Is responsive to being truly listened to and honoured.

Binra

We 'love' to put our fears and hates 'outside' our selves and then deny them, fight them or hide from them. It is the way mind works when it fears its Source.

And a desperate humorous repartee rises to offset the unthinkable.

daniel maris

Binra

Complete arrogant bunkum.

I don't perceive South Koreans or Japanese as a threat. I don't perceive Tongan people as a threat. I don't perceive Ecuadorans as as a threat. I don't perceive Botswanans as a threat. The reason I don't is because they're not, despite the people I refer to having strong cultural differences from me, despite them feeling somewhat "other".

It's called objective reality. You, on the other hand, are engaging in pseudo-religious selective subjectivity.

Philip747

Despite the post box saying your "comment will appear automatically" five attempts have failed to appear. Are my views unacceptable, or is there a problem with the system?

Philip747

I think that Daniel's analysis is pretty good, and the risk of an Israeli pre-emptive strike is diminishing. Panetta's comments are probably addressed to the Israeli people, on the basis that communicating with Bibi is problematic.

Philip747

In the discussions on the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, it has been suggested that Iranian counter-attack would likely be on the nuclear installation at Dimona, turning that part of Israel into a kind of Chernobyl. Although the Israeli atomic energy authority said they would shut down the reactors at Dimona in the event of attack, this would still leave substantial quantities of radioactive material on the site.

Philip747

The US military have made clear th at taking part in a joint attack on Iran would be bad for US interests in the region -- so no question of boots on the ground.

Philip747

If Iran attacks that would be another matter, but Israel's long-term survival depends upon maintenance of the rule of law in the region, and "pre-emptive attacks" are illegal under international law. True friends of Israel will persuade her to exercise restraint.

Augustus

Surely, history teaches that peaceful appeasement is a counterproductive exercise?
And since Iranian leaders seem motivated toward achieving regional dominance through a nuclear capability, it is more than likely
that it will try and achieve this. The only real way of stopping them from realizing that goal is to make it perfectly clear that they can expect a military attack if they persist, and that sanctions are but steps to that commitment to stopping it from going nuclear.

anthony scholefield

Just wondered exactly how Israel can attack Iran -without the US agreement. The US controls Iraqi and Persian gulf airspace. I doubt it would be a good idea to fly over Turkey or Russia.

Frank P

anthony scholefield

It is an existential threat that they face. This is just a talking shop (which is also threatened by the enemy, but somewhat less importantly). Where there is a will there is a way - as far as the Israelis are concerned, God Bless 'em. They are the only country left in the Western Alliance (ha!) with cojones. Two things must be halted: The Long March and the Islamic Jihad. Perhaps you could offer another solution? I am old enough to remember in the late 1930s as a young child, people I otherwise respected saying, "Hitler has no quarrel with us, he just wants to get rid of the Joooos."
As if that was okay, then. They were deluded eejits! As is anyone who thinks we can stop the temporary alliance of Cultural Marxism and Islamic jihad other than through blut und eisen.

Bismarck didn't have the advantage of a big fizzer, but the principle remains. Appeasement never works unless you're prepared to turn all four cheeks to the enemy for the delectation. I just hope America is covertly allowing them to strike. If they are covertly planning to stop them from doing it - God help us all.

Patricia Shaw

More warmongering from Frankly P for Propagandist.

Does Israel pay you for your belligerent tweets?

daniel maris

Appeasement is a reasonable policy if you face a rational enemy with limited aims. But if you face totalitarians with global ambitions, then appeasement is a very stupid policy, especially so if you are the intended victim (which is the case vis a vis Iran).

Trev

@Patricia Shaw,
Stop embarrassing yourself.

Frank P

If only, Patty, if only ...
The truth still hurting?

Frank P

And what's a 'tweet' ffs? My grandchildren keep talking about them.

sy

As far as I know, Iranians are as intelligent as Americans , Europeans or any human beings on earth. What makes one think America, France, Britain, India Pakistan, Korea , Russia can develop and manage nuclear capacity, and Iran cannot. I recall France, and the Moruroa Atoll .What happened thereafter? There is no attempt to scrap nuclear weapons. So long as those who have nuclear capacity,do not see the need to scrap their weapons , there is no justification in preventing others from acquiring same. The arrogance of certain nations in thinking that they have a God given right to dictate to the world, and cause stupid wars , has been the cause of most of the afflictions of the world. What kind of logic, gives Isreal the right to attack Iran, simply because they aspire to own what several other countries have already, and thereby throw the rest of the world into more hardship and difficulty and confusion ?What kind of warped thinking dictates some of these actions?

Philip747

anthony scholefield - since the departure of US forces at the end of last year, the Iraqi government has made it absolutely plain that they control their own airspace, at least as a matter of law. If Israel declares war on Iran, and violates Iraqi airspace, I would expect the Iraqis to require the removal of the 15,000 strong American embassy in Iraq. If you look at Google Earth, you can see that Saudi Arabia provides a route to Iran. Sometime ago the Saudi government said they would turn a blind eye to Israeli planes, but since then the Iranian government has said that any country which supports an Israeli acts of war can expect consequences

Philip747

Anthony Saudi Arabia is a relatively small country of some 25 million people. In assessing its appetite for war one has to consider the position of its leadership which is unlikely to last all that long in its present form. Taking part in a war against Iran, a Muslim country, on the side of Israel is unlikely to be a popular act internally.

Philip747

The Saudi leadership was anxious that Saudi US bases were not seen to be used in attacks on Iraq or Afghanistan, and in 2003 the US were asked to remove their bases. The following report appeared in Fox News at the time

"Most of the 5,000 U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia will leave by the end of the summer.

the presence of American forces here has long been an irritant for Saudi rulers facing strong anti-American sentiment among a growing and increasingly restive population. Fifteen of the 19 alleged Sept. 11 hijackers were Saudis, and Saudi-born Osama bin Laden cites the U.S. military presence in his homeland as a reason for his hatred of America."