Cameron's ECHR problems won't end with a Qatada deal
James Forsyth 3:11pm
The news that Theresa May will fly to Jordan to continue talks about Abu Qatada shows
how close the government thinks it is to a deal with the Jordanians that might satisfy the European Court of Human Rights and allow his deportation. One government source explained to me earlier
that the problem is the Jordanians are offended by being asked to provide these guarantees about a fair trial and no evidence being obtained by torture. For this reason, there needs to be a fair
amount of diplomatic stroking.
A deal with Jordan on Abu Qatada is becoming increasingly necessary if Cameron is get out of this bind on the ECHR, with the Lib Dems on one side and the Tory right on the other. Already, senior Tory MPs are muttering about why does Britain not just suspend its membership of the ECHR, deport these people and then re-join.
But, as I said in the magazine a few weeks ago, finding a way to deport Abu Qatada and others like him won’t solve all of Cameron’s ECHR problems. After that, there’s the whole issue of prisoner votes on which it is impossible to see how Cameron will be able to satisfy both his own MPs and the Strasbourg Court.
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Grumpy Optimist
February 17th, 2012 3:26pm Report this commentUtterly humiliating that we deem that we have to do this to satisfy the HR industry. How dare they. And the cost of all this for one illegal immigrant. One can only imagine the bribe the UK government will be paying Jordan.
I am almost speechless with sadness and despair. When will we have a government that actually speaks for and represents those who voted for it.
John Hirst
February 17th, 2012 3:30pm Report this commentCameron can get the support of his backbenchers by asking them if they supported the rule of law.
Austin Barry
February 17th, 2012 4:12pm Report this commentWhat a strange, pathetic Government.
Quite happy to engage in a futile war against terrorism in Afghanistan, but cowardly and simpering on the home front.
Publius
February 17th, 2012 4:19pm Report this comment"Theresa May will fly to Jordan to continue talks about Abu Qatada"
The only person who should be flying out to Jordan is this terrorist Qatada.
As for Cameron, spineless as usual. I hope he'll be garnering a lot of Guardianista votes come the next election. Because he sure as hell ain't getting mine.
C Powell
February 17th, 2012 4:27pm Report this commentIt's little wonder the Jordanian government is annoyed. They have not signed up to the ECHR and, presumably, think it presumptuous of a foreign court belonging to no state to lecture them on what sort of trial they should give to one of their own citizens.
It is a rather colonialist attitude, no?
The UK government should simply deport Qatada to Jordan forthwith, politely explaining to the ECHR and anyone else complaining about it that:-
1. The primary and most important duty of the state is to protect its citizens from harm.
2. It takes that duty very seriously.
3. The UK government owes certain basic duties to foreigners who come here. But where such foreigners (who are here either at our invitation or because they are seeking our protection) become a threat to our citizens, that duty has to be balanced against the rights of citizens here to be protected from the threat which the foreigner poses. In short, no foreigner can have an absolute right to stay in a country not his own regardless of his own behaviour.
4. The obligation to protect citizens here therefore weighs more in the balance than such rights as are owed to a foreigner who is a threat to those citizens.
5. The ECHR has weighed that balance wrongly and therefore the UK government will deport this individual.
6. The UK government hopes and believes that the Jordanian government will treat Mr Qatada properly and in accordance with its own laws but considers that, in the ultimate analysis, where the rights of one group have to be weighed against the righst of others, the rights of British citizens and those living here who are not a threat matter more than the rights of those who are a threat.
If the ECHR does not understand this, then it should not be surprised that people view with disbelief its rather absolutist and absurd interpretations of the Convention.
TrevorsDen
February 17th, 2012 4:47pm Report this commentThey are not Cameron's problems - they are ours.
The government support the rule of law, dimwits like Mr Barry would be the first to complain if they did not.
Andy H
February 17th, 2012 4:54pm Report this commentWhen will the Human Rights of the majority that pay the bloody bills get preference over that of a foreign national who has contributed nothing other then fear and hate.
It is time we started to treat those of us that live here and contribute with a bit of respect.
J Wright
February 17th, 2012 5:13pm Report this commentAre you mad.
Suspend membership,Yes
Deport him ,Yes
Rejoin., Never !!.What kind of complete and snivelling Coward are you?
Frank P
February 17th, 2012 5:21pm Report this commentYou lot have a penchant for picking strange photos to illustrate your posts (and not only those of the Milifreaks). The one of F**k-me-Shoes above could easily be mistaken as Dave collecting his Home Sec. from an unsuccessful 'sectioning' attempt and forgetting to remove the straitjacket first.
Austin Barry
February 17th, 2012 5:52pm Report this commentFrank P.
If you half-close your minces, Ms May resembles Rodney Marsh during his Manchester City days.
daniel maris
February 17th, 2012 6:33pm Report this commentUltimately we are going to have to abrogate the treaty and the associated refugee treaties. The sooner we do it, the better.
It's not as though these treaties protect human rights, given we have detention without trial, extended detention prior to trial, extraordinary rendition etc.
But they do fatally weaken our societies. If you take our treaty obligations seriously there is no upper limit on the number of refugees we are required to admit to our country.
Knitted Character
February 17th, 2012 8:39pm Report this commentCan't we just deport him to the British Embassy in Jordan while they decide what to do?
Douglas Carter
February 18th, 2012 1:25am Report this commentCameron can get the support of his backbenchers by asking them if they supported rulings influenced by an irrelevant unrepentant rentagob who killed his unarmed, middle-aged landlady because he was in a funny mood.
H D
February 18th, 2012 9:05am Report this commentWhat about the "Human Rights" of circa 60 million UK inhabitants(plus all the tourists here).It's PATHETIC!Deport him toute suite.
Heartless Curmudgeon
February 18th, 2012 9:51am Report this commentHow much money, time, and effort is to be wasted on this person, and others like him?
Does this figure at all in the calculations of the H2B and his pathetic crew as they demand ever more money from us in taxes for their wanton and wasteful expenditure?
No answer required.
daniel maris
February 18th, 2012 12:25pm Report this commentAs part of his bail conditions we could at least put him on Tristan de Cuhna or South Georgia perhaps. With his family, if he wants, since we won't want to deprive him of his family life.
Downtown
February 18th, 2012 10:38pm Report this commentWe seem to be overlooking the fact that he entered this country illegally.
Why bother making people take Life in the UK tests and pretend to be "tough on immigration" if we knowingly allow illegal immigrants to remain here?
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