The Government wins the 42-day detention vote

David C

So there are nine heads above the parapet?
How stupid is it possible to be?
Who will be remembered: the Labour rebels who more than likely will vanish with the next general election or NINE DUP members in prime position to become the subject for the Conservative Government's revenge?
I hope they got a really good price for hitching their wagon to this dead horse.

Austin Barry

Brown was right on this one. Had he lost then the Torys would be a hostage to fortune when the terrorist outrage inevitably occurs. It also clears the deck for battle to be joined on rather more pressing issues than trying to avoid giving Shami Chakrabarti and her fellow hand wringers and bleeding hearts an attack of the vapours.

David Lindsay

Shame on the DUP.

They used to be against this sort of thing in Northern Ireland. But then, they used to be against a lot of things in Northern Ireland.

And they have form: they saved Major over the Scott Report.

Kevyn Bodman

Remarkable.
The government loses some 'secure' files on Al Qaeda, giving another indication that they simply can't be relied on to handle the powers they've got, so MPs give them MORE power.

Kevyn Bodman

The next terrorist outrage will inevitably occur anyway.
If this Bill becomes an Act we won't be safer because of going from 28 to 42 days.

Gareth

Holy Cow, any other number above 9 would let the DUP off the hook but they are now going to reap the whirlwind!! I hope it was worth the pieces of silver because they have just tied themselves to a broken ship on a lee shore!!

Tom

Are they really paying 3000.00 per day to people wrongly held- or people that the authorities cant convict! (yet another addition) -
Lets hope that this money doesn't end up funding terrorism!

PJ

I remember Mr Paisley accusing Mrs Thatcher of selling Ulster down the river. I wonder how much of our money Broon had to pay for Paisley's support tonight?

Fortunately, it's all window dressing. The Lords will never let it through.

Ian C

He's survived this one - the fall that Humpty Brown has waiting for him will be that much more spectacular when it comes.....Let it be yesterday!

Michael Hargrave

Already the treasury has announced a £200M alloocation to Northern Ireland. Ian Duncan Smith asked for the Chancellor to make a statement.

Liz

I'd love to know what the DUP was offered for their vote. Wonder if it was worth it?

The bill should hopefully be overturned in the Lords, and reviving it via the Parliament Act will take more time than Brown has left in this parliament, but I can't help but feel a degree of despair that the only body that can protect our civil liberties happens to be the unelected one.

Tanuki

It's kinda indicative of just where the authoritarian streak of the UK's current government is looking.

Other civilised countries seem to manage with far shorter periods of detention-without-trial:

• Australia – 12 days maximum
• Ireland – 7 days maximum
• Spain – 5 days maximum
• Russia – 5 days maximum
• Italy – 4 days maximum
• Germany – 2 days maximum
• New Zealand – 2 days maximum
• United States – 2 days maximum
• Canada – 1 day maximum

Jonathan M. Scott

Please do not be so insulting to the DUP - and "pieces of silver" is a particularly offensive remark.

It's a democracy and the DUP voted for what they believed to be best for security against terrorism.

Here in Northern Ireland we are well used to being told what to do by English MPs.

And they're not afraid of threats, since they've had to dodge bullets and look under their cars for bombs for years.

After all, it was the DUP who stood up to Trimble, and later to Sinn Fein. They're hardly going to be afraid of an old Etonian prime minister!

DW

It's not at all surprising the DUP tethered up with Brown. There was internment in Northern Ireland during the Troubles, and many Unionist-inclined politicians thought it was no bad thing. During the Troubles they were never seriously on the side of freedom and human rights when it came to the nationalist minority in NI. SO why worry about a few Muslims now?

PorteyDown

David Lindsay - "Shame on the DUP. They used to be against this sort of thing in Northern Ireland"

Nonsense. The DUP actively lobbied for harsher laws for terrorists, so their position is entirely consistent. That's not to say that they extracted a price for their support - which party wouldn't have, knowing that they were going to support the 42 days all along?

Drew

Watching Mesdames Ashley and Toynbee pirouette around the Great Leader shacking up with Ulster Unionism should be quite amusing later in the week. Big on wimmin's rights, our DUP chums.

Jules

Point of this story is that Brown cannot carry his party; he needed opposition parties to win the day.

Hysteria

Liz - don't depair - one of the strongest arguments for an unelected upper house is their impartiality - Imagine a wholly elected and whipped second chamber - eek!

Fergus Pickering

Come, come, Jonathan M Scott. The DUP were paid off. Two hundred million for a start. NOBODY believes they voted because of the consciences I doubt they would even say it themselves. They were up for sale and Brown bought them. Not that it matters except that he bought them with MY money.

David C

Jonathan M Scott.
"After all, it was the DUP who stood up to Trimble, and later to Sinn Fein. They're hardly going to be afraid of an old Etonian prime minister!"

Quite correct (although I wouldn't underestimate 'Old Etonians').
I was thinking of the ex-grammar school, ex-SAS member of the Conservative front bench, who, by report, carries grudges.

TGF UKIP

Now politics should get interesting, REALLY interesting. The military historians on this site will be able to select, better than I, the most appropriate allegorical battle, but having gambled and won this one, Gordon is now going to move his tanks out.

This moment is what the Downing Street cabal will have been waiting and planning for over the past few months so expect either a plethora of or, better still, one or two very large policy initiatives between now and the Summer recess. Mini Budget spending and tax cuts? Whatever they may be Gordon and co cannot afford those initiatives being just damp squibs. Here's where Carter might really earn his money.

What is going to be just as interesting is seeing whether or not Dave and Boy George are strategically prepared and have a war plan ready to open a new front.

Hold tight, folks, the next few weeks could see the resurrection or the end of Gordon and, either way, a real test for Dave

DM

David Lindsay - You are wrong. The DUP have always been hardline when it comes to anti-terorism laws.
Also Major, was saved not so much by the DUP but by the Ulster Unionists (who have since been largely ousted by the DUP in NI).

Nicholas

Jonathan M. Scott, the DUP should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, especially for all the special considerations you cite.

And so should Ann Widdecombe and the UKIP eejit.

Without their votes the government would have lost this particular step in their long procession of follies. Democracy and what they believe in has nothing to do with it. They were bought, plain and simple. Shame on them.

Ray

... And don't any of you even think about over-filling that wheelie bin. 42 days in the slammer: that'll stop you putting the wrong colour bottles in the recycling recepticle!

oldtimer

"Squalid" is the word to describe Brown.

Ahem

Um, Drew, for what it's worth, the DUP in % terms have more female elected reps than, for example, the Conservative Party does. Make of that what you will.

Gavin

For the first time in my life I am ashamed of my grandfather's Northern Irish roots. The Unionist parties always maintained the moral high ground against the IRA by supporting the traditions of the British constitution. They lost that high ground today. If I was the DUP I would start preparing for union with Ireland; if they'll have them. I, for one won't object.

Pete

Just another step towards a European Superstate.

Just watch!

Pete, Scotland

Gave me a smile thinking about it!

'The UDP gives the UK 42 days detention without charge'

Travis Bickle

How interesting that the "lost" files announcement came just before the vote.

I'm not suggesting any conspiracy at all but if you found an envelope marked top secret would your first instinct be to take it to the BBC?

MartSharm

The only power Brown has left is bribery. £2.7m for Crewe and Nantwich, £200,000 for 42 days. Forget cash-for-questions or cash-for-peerages. Now we have cash-for-votes! Anyone know if there is a law against this one?

PJ

Jonathan M Scott - if you find somebody exercising their right to free speech offensive while seeing nothing wrong with our civil liberties being trampled upon and a police state being established, fine. Other people, fortunately, have saner priorities.

And for the record, I imagine 30 billion pieces of silver was nearer to the mark.

Gareth

"Please do not be so insulting to the DUP - and "pieces of silver" is a particularly offensive remark." to whom, the suddenly caved in to NuLiebour? Before you try to get all sanctimonious on me I'm a member of the Armed Forces and we don't recall such "touchy feely" Irish politics previously. Stop bullshitting it was a deal that traded liberty for money. perhaps that's also something you're good at!!

Nicholas

Travis Bickle: "I'm not suggesting any conspiracy at all but if you found an envelope marked top secret would your first instinct be to take it to the BBC?"

Good question. I hope the Speccie pick this up and explore it. Guido probably won't now he's on the Conservative MEP's expenses tack.

Lots of unanswered questions. Why, if the dossier was found yesterday and handed over to the BBC, did they only announce it just before the 42 days vote? Who in the BBC made that decision? Who found it, handed it to the BBC and why?

Maybe Crick should look into it? He seems to be good at long lists of questions.

David Lindsay

MM, it was the DUP who saved Major over the Scott Report.

UKIP's only MP voted for 42 days. Nuff said about UKIP there.

And I am very pleased for anyone who will benefit from the extra help for ex-miners promised in return for certain Labour MPs' votes. But if the money was there, then that help should have been forthcoming anyway. Why wasn't it? What was being funded instead, and why?

Lee Jakeman

The terrorists must be quaking in their boots. They could handle 28 days. They could even handle blowing themselves up for the cause. But 42 days? Intolerable!

DM

David Lindsay - No, check your facts. The Ulster Unionist whip at the time Martin Smyth was interviewed extensively about how his party would vote on the Scott report. Yes, the DUP were players in the vote, but don't over estimate their role. The Ulster Unionists were the larger party at the time in Westminster terms and were crucial to the outcome. They were the ones Major depended on.

cuffleyburgers

If the bill is sent back by the Lords do the DUP have to repay the 200 million?

CS

***It's a democracy and the DUP voted for what they believed to be best for security against terrorism.***

The only civil right that the DUP cares a toss about is the right to march through Catholic streets in silly orange sashes, beating drums.

BLC

Rightly or wrongly the 42 days vote was just an exercise in gross hypocrisy by Brown. Like Blair, he's allowing any Tom,Dick and Harriet into Britain, many ready to bomb us when they can!

David Lindsay

DM, this isn't really the point of this thread, but I can assure you that it was the DUP's three abstentions (Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson and William McRea) that saved Major over the Scott Report.

The DUP are a working-class populist party economically - Old Labour without the Marxist infiltration.

Add in the old-time religion, the moral and social conservatism, the Euroscepticism and the support for grammar schools (again, all redolent of Very Old Labour, pre-Blairite because pre-Bennite), and it is impossible to see what a Cameron-led party has to offer them or their voters.

A Davis-led party, on the other hand...