Will David Davis achieve anything?
Peter Hoskin 3:38pm
I find it hard to be cynical about Davis’ actions today. Rather than being a “publicity stunt”, I suspect they may demonstrate that rarest of things – a politician acting on principle. But, whatever you think on that front, there’s a separate question: what will Davis achieve? I’m not sure it will be all that much. Some thoughts on why:
1) The 42-day legislation hasn’t been passed yet. If anything, the smart money’s on it not getting through the Lords (and possibly then entering a period of wrangling, courtesy of the Parliament Act). In that case, Davis will be running a by-election campaign largely against a policy which isn’t in place. That’s hardly the thing to bring about a land-shift in public opinion.
2) Do the public care about 42-day detention? As James has said before, the public are largely in support of 42-day detention, whilst also appreciating that it’s not the be-all-and-end-all of counter-terrorism in this country. Of course, Davis would say that the point of his actions is to convince people that they’re wrong; that 42-day detention is an insidious but significant development. But will the nation listen in on a by-election campaign? Will people care about this more than soaring fuel, food and mortgage costs? I doubt it.
3) If anything, his actions may give Labour a boost. Given the above points, it’s doubtful whether many people will read anything into the story other than “Tory MP resigns after 42-day detention disappointment”. That’s bad news for the Tories. It’s a cloud over Project Cameron, particularly if there’s any truth to the Cameron-Davis row rumours. Little wonder, then, that Labour figures are so ecstatic. Three Line Whip puts it nicely: “Gordon Brown is on the floor – and David Davis has just helped him to his feet.”
4) After re-election, Davis will be in a worse position to do anything about any legislation. The early word is that Davis won’t be walking back into his old job if re-elected; Dominic Grieve is very much a permanent replacement. So how does he hope to influence Tory policy from the back benches? Again, he’ll be hoping that he creates such a large public consensus that a Tory Government would be forced to repeal any 42-day legislation, if passed. But, failing that – which ties into points 1) and 2) above – it’s difficult to see what else he can do. I doubt, for instance, that Cameron will allow Davis or his views into the inner circle again.
Before I finish, a little more on Grieve. For Cameron, the opportunity to effectively sack Davis from his role as shadow home secretary may be the silver lining on this particular cloud. The buzz has always been that Cameron and Davis don’t see eye-to-eye. On the other hand, Grieve fits more easily into Team Cameron – more centrist, more media-friendly etc. etc – even despite his views on grammar schools. That may not be a good thing to some CoffeeHousers. But, make no mistake, Grieve’s consistently been one of the Tories’ top-performers recently. And I think his tag-team partnership with the shadow justice secretary, Nick Herbert – who, again, is said to have had run-ins with Davis – could be something to relish.
Previous
Pete
June 12th, 2008 4:20pm Report this commentI think this about a lot more than just the 42 days.
What about CCTV, a huge range of data collection on everybody, bin snoopers, jumped up overpowered council officials, etc, etc.
It's time we had a wide ranging debate about what kind of democracy we want to live in, as well as what powers the Goverment should have over us.
C Powell
June 12th, 2008 4:22pm Report this commentRe your 2nd point: people may not care about 42-day detention but they do care about the endlessly intrusive bossy State wanting to know everything about us but being utterly careless about our personal details & privacy. Just look at the fuss made at local authorites spying on people's bins and families with children etc/the loss of child benefit data. If Davis makes this an issue about the intrusive State, the "tax'n'spy" agenda, the way public servants -in both central & local Government think of themselves as our masters not our servants etc then I think he will strike quite a chord - and not just amongst Tories.
As for people being in favour of locking up terrorists, people support that because they would like the Government to deal with the terrorist threat - as indeed do I and all those who oppose the 42-day proposal. But that's precisely what this proposal won't do. This Government is not dealing with the terrorist threat: its policies over the last 11 years have increased our vulnerability to terrorism - see some of my other posts on this - and one reason why I oppose this latest measure is that it is gesture politics at its worst: a policy which will be unworkable, will cut back our liberties, will do nothing to counter the terrorist threat, arguably will increase it (remember internment in Northern Ireland) and will be a substitute for the sort of painstaking hard work and tough decisions which are really needed to deal the threat we face. Bluntly people feel that it's Labour's own multiculturalist and human rights agenda which has meant that we've let in a lot of terrorists, are unable to deport them and unwilling to stop them spreading their poisonous agenda and therefore, faute de mieux, support locking them up, discounting the threat to them of the loss of their freedom. But they would much rather the Government dealt with terrorism properly and did not attack the fundamentals of British liberty. Labour has done the latter and damn all about the former.
Grieve is a clever man but too lawyerly on TV. He lacks the common touch, lacks the bruiser quality needed to reassure people that he is willing to be tough when needed. It will now be easier for Labour to paint the Tories as being a bit effete about crime/terrorism etc when the reality is that it is Labour which is - and has been - utterly weak on both.
Pete Hoskin
June 12th, 2008 4:30pm Report this commentPete & C Powell: you're both right - I'm sure Davis is concerned about a wider set of Government actions. But the danger is that, coming when it his, his action will be seen as nothing more than a 42-day protest.
Pete
June 12th, 2008 4:44pm Report this commentI agree that his timing may have been better. But this is such an important issue I am just glad that somebody with a high profile has kicked off the debate as it is long overdue. I get the feeling that so many people are absolutely fed up with the intrusive nature of this Government but have just never had a champion for the cause that they could rally behind, I think that has changed now and the cynics may get a surprise at the support he gets.
B
June 12th, 2008 4:50pm Report this commentEveryone who has met David Davis has had a run in with him! Myself included. It doesn't necessarily mean you don't get on with the man.
Seasurfer1
June 12th, 2008 4:58pm Report this commentIf there is a SPLIT in the conservative party, I will be backing David Davis,
steve
June 12th, 2008 5:08pm Report this commentSadly, even though I am almost at one with his views on the slow strangulation of liberty. I can't help feeling that if (as looks likely) he will be the only candidate in this particular by-election he is just going to end up looking silly.
Seasurfer1
June 12th, 2008 5:16pm Report this commentSteve, Thats what they said about Churchill when he was ranting on as a lone voice about the threats to our freedoms from the growing military power of Germany. He went on to be the Greatest Briton- Davis may be next!
Manfredo Felice
June 12th, 2008 5:37pm Report this commentCan't you folks recognize the "Man Overboard" episode (Series Two, Episode 1) of Yes, Prime Minister when you see it? Dudley the Education Secretary resigns when Hacker goes back on his word to support Dudley's policy, Hacker doing so because he sees the Ed Sec as a rival.
Dud then resigns as a matter of principle and once he's gone, Hacker reinstates the policy, making the former Ed Sec look silly.
Really, there's very little that happens in UK politics that hasn't already happened on Yes, Minister.
Chingford Man
June 12th, 2008 5:44pm Report this commentThere is a simple way to ensure that Davis has some kind of Labour opponent. Back in 1986, when the Ulster unionists resigned their seats to force a mini-referendum on the Anglo-Irish Agreement, in seats where pro-Agreement parties refused to stand, someone changed his name by deed poll to that of the then Irish Foreign Minister, a notable unionist hate figure, and submitted nomination papers to ensure that a poll would take place. How many votes would a "Gordon Brown" get in H&H?
My last act as a Tory party member was to vote for David Davis in November 2005. I am thrilled that he has taken this incredibly brave step in defence of our freedoms. We always complain that our politicians have no guts or principles. With more like DD, there may still be hope for our country.
Nicholas Jones
June 12th, 2008 5:51pm Report this commentI agree with C Powell. With luck, Davis will shed light on something broader than 42 days, namely Labour's Police State and I think that the public at large is waking up to this menace. Interestingly, Labour's Police State has all of the downside of living under a dictatorship and none of the upside. That is to say a level of intrusiveness, snooping, disregard for private privacy that would have made Erich Honecker blush. But at the same time,lawless chaos on the streets. Being fined for failing to sort one's rubbish correctly would not be so bad if one could shop at Sainsbury's without fear of being beaten to death or send one's teenage son to the baker's to buy a loaf of bread without the 50/50 probability of his being stabbed.
Nicholas Jones
June 12th, 2008 5:52pm Report this commentI agree with C Powell. With luck, Davis will shed light on something broader than 42 days, namely Labour's Police State and I think that the public at large is waking up to this menace. Interestingly, Labour's Police State has all of the downside of living under a dictatorship and none of the upside. That is to say a level of intrusiveness, snooping, disregard for private privacy that would have made Erich Honecker blush. But at the same time,lawless chaos on the streets. Being fined for failing to sort one's rubbish correctly would not be so bad if one could shop at Sainsbury's without fear of being beaten to death or send one's teenage son to the baker's to buy a loaf of bread without the 50/50 probability of his being stabbed.
Max Kaye
June 12th, 2008 6:07pm Report this commentThe public may not be totally with Davis on the '42 days' issue, but they are with him in his opposition to the general authoritarian trend of this government: ID cards, National DNA database, erosion of trial by jury, etc.
The Tory leadership ship not misread the public on this. From comments on various blogs and media site it appears that the general public is overwhelmingly in support of Davis's protest.
Kafur
June 17th, 2008 7:04pm Report this commentAm I the only one who agrees with the 42 day detention issue?
As far as I am concered there should be NO time on detention until the police are able to glean their evidence.
Our country is under attack for Gods sake!!
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