The Islamism agenda
James Forsyth 12:49pm
Seamus Milne’s column in The Guardian today is most revealing. Milne is completely frank that he believes that the government should engage with Islamism. As Milne writes:
“The issue is the government's growing hostility to dealing with anyone connected with the highly diverse movement that is Islamism. This is a political trend that has violent and non-violent, theocratic and democratic, reactionary and progressive strands, stretching from Turkey's pro-western ruling Justice and Development party through to the wildest shores of takfiri jihadism. But it's largely on the basis of this blinkered opposition that the government is now funding Husain's Quilliam Foundation, promoting other marginal groups such as the Sufi Muslim Council and turning its back on more representative bodies such as the Muslim Council of Britain.This is a dangerous game, whether from the point of view of reducing the threat of terror attacks on the streets of London or narrowing the gulf between Muslims and non-Muslims in the country as a whole.”
Milne robustly defends Shahid Malik, the Labour Minister who wanted to attend Islam Expo despite the role of those with extremist views in organising the event. Milne goes onto quote a Labour Minister decrying the government’s policy, ably crafted by Hazel Blears, of not engaging with Islamists: “This cannot continue, it's completely counterproductive. You have to engage with those with influence over those you want to influence."
Now, even Lestrade of the Yard might fancy his chances of identifying the source of the anonymous quote. One wonders whether this is minister believes that the best thing for his career would be to be sacked by an unpopular Prime Minister.
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Trumpeter Lanfried
July 17th, 2008 1:14pm Report this commentFor once, I am with Hazel Blears. Her decision was absolutely correct; a welcome break from the pussyfooting approach which we so often see in government.
Tiberius
July 17th, 2008 1:15pm Report this commentWell Milne's words sound like typical Leftie pseudo-intellectual (or should that be sub-Marxist)gobbledegook to me, and show he doesn't understand "The Islamist Threat".
cat osb
July 17th, 2008 1:32pm Report this commentWhy doesn't Milne just convert to Islam and have done with it? He would obviously be so much happier and he would then be free to write openly from a straightforward Islamist position, rather than have to pretend to be some sort of intellectual.
CG
July 17th, 2008 1:40pm Report this commentI wonder what Milne thinks about 'engaging with the BNP?'
Dennis
July 17th, 2008 1:51pm Report this commentI suspect Milne is operating a double standard here.
If the government were to propose sitting down with (or funding) any non-Muslim group that was overtly racist, misogynist, ‘homophobic’ etc. then we could confidently expect Milne to be among the first to denounce such a move.
Yet when an Islamic group displays these (or equivalent) vices, that’s fine and dandy. Mmm..
That said, let’s not set the bar too high. If any group were prepared to do the following, I’d have no objection to them taking tea with Ms Blears any day of the week:
• Unequivocally condemn terrorism/suicide-bombing at home and abroad.
• Formally dissociate themselves from calls for an Islamic state/Caliphate etc.
• Unequivocally condemn female genital mutilation, honour killings, violence against, and social subjugation of, women.
• Dissociate themselves from calls for the introduction of Sharia into UK law.
• Condemn any form of violence against homosexuals.
• Dissociate themselves from the teaching that the appropriate punishment for apostasy is death….. or any other coercive sanction, for that matter.
• Speak out against cultural/religious separatism, and promote integration.
Not too much to ask of genuine ‘community leaders’ is it?
Marian C
July 17th, 2008 1:52pm Report this commentTrumpeter Langfried;
I'm with you on this one
C Powell
July 17th, 2008 3:02pm Report this commentMilne is one of Lenin's "useful idiots" (as is the Guardian) for the Islamists. The one good point to note is the number of CIF commentators who are repulsed by his views and say so, despite the Guardian's best efforts to censor them. It is people like Milne who make it increasingly hard for moderate Islamic leaders to develop a public profile and not cede leadership of Britain's Muslim to the repulsive Islamists. Hazel Blears was, for once, quite right. I hope also that next year Boris will make sure that IslamExpo does not happen in London. We need to shun the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, their supporters and ideologists so that it becomes impossible for anyone wanting to be taken seriously in public life or journalism to be associated with them. These people rule by fear and intimidation (of Muslims as much as anyone) and only by being marginalised and treated as the criminals they are can we even begin to hope to clear this threat out.
And - cat osb - Milne should not convert to Islam. We should not make the mistake of confusing Islam with Islamism, something which Milne and the Brotherhood do day in day out.
Ann
July 17th, 2008 3:56pm Report this commentDennis: bravo!
Bexleyite
July 17th, 2008 10:13pm Report this commentI don't see anything wrong with a caliphate. The pope is the RC caliph, Rowan, for better or worse, is the CofE caliph.
Atatürk abolished the caliphate but he did so at a time when most of the Moslem world was under League of Nations mandates. And for purely internal reasons. Whether he would get away with it now is something else. Plus it would be a damned sight easier dealing with a caliph than all these bloody sects.
Verity
July 18th, 2008 12:28am Report this commentTrumpeter and Marian C - Perhaps the Blears is the only member of the Cabinet who has heard of taqqya and kitman and has the nerve to make a stand.
I doubt it. But life is full of surprises.
Verity
July 18th, 2008 3:32am Report this commentInteresting that no comments have been posted (I'm not saying 'received', just not posted) on this thread for 12 hours.
Hard to believe, really.
In fact, I don't believe that this thread has been dead for 12 hours.
George Steiner
July 18th, 2008 3:54am Report this commentWhen you are finished you are finished. We are just waiting for the fat lady to sing.
Jak
July 25th, 2008 9:21pm Report this commentHow did the Northern Ireland problem get solved - by engaging with the IRA?
How did Communism collapse, by engaging with the Russians in the 80s?
Rather than create a new clash of civilisations by listening to the claptrap of Husain's foundation or others who the Muslims see as unrepresentative of their views (www.islamic-considerations.blogspot.com), it would make sense to come to an agreement with Islamists who reflect the views of Muslims in the UK and across the globe...
What's the alternative? Hid the problem under the carpet?
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