Can Labour die?

CoxSays

"Can Labour die?"

We live in hope

Edward Rivers

I don't see how they can recover from this one. Even in 1997 when the Conservative were under attack they still had 165 loyal seats and were by no means finicially crippled as a party. If Labour can loose Glasgow East, no seat is safe. With no money left as well, I do not see them maintaining as good a political presence as the Conservatives have as the leading opposition.

Ray

There will always be a party of the left for that 20% of the electorate who are die-hard egalitarian socialists. As such, the Labour Party will in all probability remain their home. Whether this 'born again' socialist Labour Party can ever realise government is another matter.

Indeed, for a whole range of historical and cultural reasons Britain is fundamentally a conservative country, and the very fact that in order to achieve and hold power Blair and his New Labour 'project' had to appeal to this conservatism should have been a cautionary tale to those foolish Labour MPs who ever seriously entertained the notion that they could 'finish off' the Conservative Party.

The Underdoug

Whither Labour?

A blast furnace manufacturer shows how it's possible.

(The Burkiss Way, 1978 - plus ca change)

grumpy old man

Bit like Lloyd-Georges Liberals. isn't it? Hero to Zero in a decade.

Matthew Blott

Labour are in dire trouble of course but it was only a couple of years ago we were listening to the obituaries of the Conservative Party. I remember your own Peter Obourne being concerned the Tories could ever win again.

Cameron has done a sterling job since he became Tory leader but a couple of years as PM will see some of the sheen come off. How will he handle a possible war with Iran, for example? Will his grandstanding over Europe come back to bite him? Upsetting foreign leaders doesn't matter so much when you're in opposition but will his apparent Europscepticism be so vocal when in power? And how will this go down with the more Europhobic wing of his party? Mr Cameron will have lots of challenges ahead and nothing like the easy ride he's had so far. Those high poll ratings won't last for ever.

Matthew Blott

@ Ray

Certainly you're right, the Labour party will remain in some form as their will always be a core left vote.

I'm not sure you're right to describe Britain as a conservative country however. It depends what you mean by this as I think it's a bit more complex than you might imagine. For example, most people I would say I mildly Eurosceptic and prefer low taxes but are most people (certainly the younger generation) are relaxed about civil partnerships and gay people in the armed forces and are tolerant of minorities in a way that wouldn't be imagined 40 years ago. David Cameron has recognised this and has had to drag a somewhat reluctant party towards this view. The Daily Mail is probably more popular than the bigoted views of a some of its columnists.

Patrick, London

Socialism doesn't work. It never ceases to depress me that this basic truth fails to register in so many people.

Labour may get stuffed but some party will still pick up the rump of the lefty stupid vote. I certainly hope that the profound and widespread damage Labour has inflicted will keep this rump away from Whitehall forever.

Charlie T

Lets hope so. As Tebbit said the complete eradication of socialism that is the ulitmate dream.

Travis Bickle

The wrong question. Labour will probably revert to what it was pre-Blair and have it's strongholds in the North of England.

What we should be asking is if the damage inflicted by the current bunch of meddlers can ever be properly repaired, given the spectre of European Socialism and the way they set so many of our laws and policies.

Ironically it is very likely that a few of the politicians who have so damaged our country over 11 years will simply move to Brussels to wreak even more havoc upon us. Sigh.

THX1138

Nu lab has just changed hosts It's moved west not right from N1 & now resides in W11.

Old Hack

Once the Conservatibes win the next election the left of politics will remain, regardless of brand.
The question will then become, how best to organise the left?
Out of the ashes of a moribund Labour may arise a new force, probably affiliating if not merging with the Lib Dems who must finally conceed that they are a left of centre party.

Such a realignment may be better placed to win power and tackle the challenge of Celtic nationalism.

Divided and squabbling, the left will wither.

Wilfred

Thoughts? No thoughts. Only waves of atavistic pleasure at the prospect of New Labour's extermination.

Alex

Much as I want to agree with everyone here - I would love to see the Labour party annihilated; I think some of you are being a little hubristic.

Looking at polling history, at least 25% (maybe more?)of the electorate are die-hard Labour voters in General Elections ... "I've always been a Labour- man me. Me Dad and me Grandad voted Labour too. Anyone who doesn't vote Labour needs their 'ed checked", "The Tories are all about making the rich richer and the poor poorer, ain't they?"

Also, look at how the boundaries are still extremely skewed in favour of Labour,to the extent the the Tories must win at least 10% more of the vote than Labour to win a majority.

The Tories need a Blair-type 1997 General Election win to even get a small majority (admittedly, the job will be made easier by the SNP to killing off Labour in Scotland) ...

Steve the Student

Worth putting some Champagne on ice for says I.

salieri

A decade ago - no, 2 years ago - Labour commentators pondered the same question in reverse, about the potential extinction of the Conservative Party. The sensible ones pointed out that it would be undesirable, and we should echo them now.

Firstly, an ideological thesis can only be tested against its antithesis. No opinion is of real value unless contrasted with its opposite. But secondly, even when the difference is not ideological, or more probably is blurred, any one-party state is a disaster. The Labour Party should and must, in some form, be preserved for the good of us all. That in no way diminishes the urgent need to be rid of it in its present guise.

(Sorry, LibDems, but you really don't count.)

David C

The difference between Labour and Conservative parties during their periods out of power is that the Conservatives have not given up hope.
I look at the Labour Party and even now, after eleven years in Government there is still an attitude of 'opposition' in the back benches (perhaps because it is not really the 'Labour Party' in Government- perhaps the Labour Party really did die during the seventeen years of Conservatism and what we see is the NuLabour Zombie)
Another long period out of Government might well diminish the Labour Party irretrievably.

Chris

I believe DC is right. The authentic Labour Party died during the eighteen years of Conservative rule.

Nu Labour occupied the shell. Nu Labour is dead, there is nothing left. Labour will cease to be one the main parties of government, though as Ray said they will survive as a rump.

Meanwhile, an alternative centre-left pary will emerge to fill the vaccum.

Herbert Thornton

Chris' belief in the emergence of an alternative centre-left party to fill the vacuum is correct, but a little behind the times. This 'alternative centre-left party' already exists. It is the Cameron-led Tories.

Alarmingly, in the matter of the most important issue of all, which is immigration, they will be very little different from Labour.

People who really want the immigration problem to be tackled and dealt with will have to look elsewhere.