More fuel for the Labour leadership fire...

Julie

I hope Miliband does oust Brown. I actually like Miliband and he will be more than a match for (posh boy) Cameron.

KindnessofWomen

Wow, looks like I may have underestimated Milibland. Seems he might have done enough to prepare the ground for Broon to be toppled.

It's an intriguing Mexican stand-off. If Broon rises to the bait and sacks Milibland, as some have urged him to do, it means Milibland would have nothing to lose by launching a leadership challenge. Which is presumably what Milibland wants to do without being painted as the aggressor. On the other hand, some are saying that if Broon doesn't sack Milibland he'll look weak, thus giving succour to anyone thinking of challenging him.

If we accept that Broon can't win either way, it makes you wish they'd just get on with the execution. Whatever Milibland's true strategy is, the dreadful kicking he took from Comment is free readers doesn't seem to have dampened his ardour any. Then again, I doubt if he bothered reading past the first couple of comments. After all, once he's PM he can just have everyone arrested. Brilliant.

Edward Benson

Well, that's it then. He's surely about to resign - nothing else could explain today's behaviour.

Tiberius

Julie: nice to see you don't go in for class prejudice.

David

Julie,

"I actually like Miliband"

"(posh boy) Cameron"

Not exactly speaking for the floating voter, are you?

Charlie T

There's no point in Miliband pussyfooting about now. He has to plunge the knife all the way in. He has to announce he will challenge Brown for the leadership. If he doesn't then he's totally muffed it. Brown will have to sack him anyway.

wonderfulforhisage

I would have thought the next leader of the Labour Party is likely to suffer the fate of William Hague and the one after that, a similar fate to IDH.

I'm at a loss to understand why any ambitious Labour politician under the age of fifty would want to be anywhere near the centre of the current Labour conflagration.

On the other hand, if I were say, Straw or Harman, I'd rather fancy six months to a year as PM before calling a General Election and being beaten out of site. I could use my time as PM to settle a few scores, set up some good contacts with big business, and generally queen about. Then, I'd retire 'honourably' on a ex PMs pension and cash in my big business favours.

Jules

Sorry Julie

Cameron will wipe the floor with him. Miliband comes across as vain and condescending. Plus, he does not have the wit to counter Cameron. Plus, assassins are rarely rewarded:

Brown toppled Blair - look what happening now.

Campbell toppled Kennedy. How long did he last?

Clegg did not exactly do his best to save Campbell - he's really putting in a stellar performance!

No one really cares about Brown's dull persona. It's the high energy bills and food prices and his inability to address these problems.

If Labour gets rid of Brown, then they implicitly reject Brown's (and by extension, Labour's) former reputation for economic competence. Even if the economy recovers in a year or two, they will not be able to sell the argument that Labour is economically competent without Brown on-board. How would this sound?

We've (Labour) boasted that we can best run the economy for 9 years and that GB is the best chancellor ever. Suddenly, we hit a bit of turbulence - sorry, GB on you bike.

2010:

Well as you can see, we had a few problems, but we made it through. We are still best to run the economy, proven by our track record over the last 13 years.

(Cut to journalist) GB was responsible for most of that wasn't he?

(Cut to Labour minister) Well, he was chancellor for 10 years, so yes.

(Journalist) Why did you get rid of him then? By getting rid of him, do you not accept that you rejected his economic policies and found them to be lacking in the face of global events? By getting rid of him, do you not accept that in fact Labour was not economically competent as you all made out?

Richard

Ah, Julie, just keep those class war comments coming. Nothing better to remind us all of the hatred and envy at the root of Labour, back in the 1970's and right now. People may have thought New Labour was different from old Labour. Only in the packaging. And that's coming off. You do such a good job reminding us of the reality, and of all the reasons why Labour has to go - and will.

Daniella

Jules, I disagree. On the 5live show callers were friendly to Miliband even the ones who were hostile about Labour or policy. All the ire was directed at Brown, showing that maybe if he goes some if not all are willing to go back to the fold.

Miliband won't be the pushover for Cameron that Brown is. For one his style is more relaxed, normal and friendly, very much like Cameron's. Can you imagine Brown doing as well on 5live as Miliband? Also Milband made references to protectionist policies like Obama is pursuing in the US and policies like a windfall tax on energy companies. This would leave Cameron defending the rich and big business.

Alex

Julie - keep the inverted snobbery coming please!

It's Labour supporters like you spouting those types of comments that recently allowed the Torys to thrash Labour in the Crewe By-election.

Thank you!

Chuck Unsworth

Wow Daniella! So appearing on 5Live is comparable with running the country and PMQs, eh?

Oh yes, I guess Milliband believes it is.

CoxSays

It seems as though the times story has been pulled

Jules

Daniella,

As Clinton said "It's the economy, stupid!". Elections are won or lost on this ground.
Labour appeared to handle the economy well these last few years.

It's the only reason why we have tolerated so much rubbish from Labour: Iraq, sleaze and corruption,break-up of the Union, stealth taxes and parcelling off UK PLC piece by pieces to the EU.

If Labour gets rid of Brown, then it has rejected the myth of Labour's gold standard of economic competence. More importantly, it raises and entrenches the questions amongst voters: " Well if Labour was not that great after all, then maybe it's time to give the Tories another go." And may that be the case!

But if you want to debate personalities, then I stand by what I said. Miliband is vain and patronising; you only have to look at Question Time performances to see this. But overall, what bothers me most, and I suspect will bother most voters, is that he suffers from the same malady that Brown does: the feeling of entitlement to power. That Labour is the natural party of government and how dare anybody who questions this. Don't take my word for it: look at the article on coaching him today in Coffee Blog.

I suggest you also look at Fraser's article regarding Cameron. Cameron managed to convert people who either did not respect him or felt indifference towards him. That's a special gift and Miliband does not have it.

Ok, if that's not good enough for you, then let's have a Pepsi analogy in terms of political communicators:

Pepsi - Tony Blair
Diet Pepsi - David Cameron
Pepsi Max (Sugar Free)- David Miliband
Pepsi Caffeine Free - Gordon Brown.

John Page

Yes it's not loading.

David

The Telegraph are saying they have a poll coming out tomorrow morning comparing the popularity of Miliband and Brown. Is there any sneaky news on it?

MartinW

Well. I would like to know something of Milliband's cancelled trip to India. Presumably it was for a serious purpose and deemed by the Foreign Office important. If it was cancelled for purely party political reasons, then that is shoddy and disrespectful. As Foreign Minister he has a duty to put Britain's interests first.

Daniella

Jules, you maybe right but I don't think you are, and we will only find out at the next election. I voted for Blair and would, if an election were held tomorrow, vote Cameron without question but I just feel Miliband is a more canny and worthy opposition than Brown.

CoxSays

For David Miliband shouldn't that read: Pepsi Marx ?

Silent Hunter

Has anyone here read the 700+ comments on the Guardian Miliband thread?

I think he has shot himself in the foot by thinking he would get an easy ride from a Pro Labour paper...........far from it!
The overwhelming majority of posts are vociferously hostile to Miliband and Labour.

They are going down at the election and nothing is going to save them from a wipe out.