Grayling responds
Peter Hoskin 6:22pm
Here are Chris Grayling's answers to the questions put forward by CoffeeHousers:
Marcus Cotswell
"What are your plans for reducing the incidence of means-testing in the benefit system, with particular reference to the impact on incentives to save?"
None of us would have wanted to see means testing spread as far as it has throughout our benefits and tax credits system under Gordon Brown. However once a system is in place, it's much more difficult to change things without creating losers amongst the most vulnerable in our society. So initially our focus will be on simplification. I am, for example, extremely concerned about the number of elderly pensioners who are finding it too difficult to apply for help, at a time when the cost of living pressures on them are acute.
However we will have to address the issue of means testing, particularly in the pensions arena. The Government is in the process of introducing a new type of pension for people on lower incomes, called personal accounts. It will involve them contributing 3% of their annual income - but in many cases that will not be sufficient to raise them above the means testing threshold. So they are in real danger of saving but gaining nothing from doing so. We have identified a number of possible solutions to the problem, but we do not, in opposition, have sufficient analytical tools to assess these. The Department for Work and Pensions is the only organisation with a modelling system that can do this properly.
We have told the Government that the current situation is unacceptable, and they have agreed to produce an options paper of different possible solutions. Whether they actually do something is quite another story, particularly given Gordon Brown's track record in this area. So we will have to wait to see what they produce, and we may have to wait until we are in Government before we get proper access to the system that will enable us to do the analysis properly and take firm decisions.
Diana
"Is there a place for Frank Field in your ministerial team, come a Tory government?"
I don't think he'd accept! Frank is in the enviable position of being someone who has a huge influence on policy on both sides of the political spectrum. Although David Freud rightly gets a lot of credit for providing a significant amount of the thinking behind the most recent Labour and Conservative welfare reform proposals, Frank Field's influence has been substantial as well. I think he enjoys being able to play a part in helping drive the debate without being constrained by front bench responsibilities. He likes to be able to say what he thinks.
forlornehope
"What are you going to do about the fact that those of us in the private sector have to pay more for public sector pensions than we do for our own?"
This is clearly a real issue, and one which the current Government has ducked. We have tried very hard to get a clear statement from ministers about the absolute scale of the liability that is being built up - without success. We have argued that the Government should revisit the controversial agreement over public sector pensions that was reached with the unions two years ago. While we believe that many public servants do an extremely difficult job and deserve security in retirement, it is difficult to see that someone entering public service today is going to be able to retire on the same basis as someone now approaching retirement. But we will not be able to offer a definitive view until we have full and accurate information about the scale of the liabilities.
AndyS
"Chris. Do you think it likely that the public sector Unions, in their current muscle flexing mood, would allow the wholesale transfer of benefit claimants to private companies tasked with managing their transition back in to work? Ideological anathema to an unreconstructed socialist I'd have thought. Which begs the question why is Purnell proposing this or similar? Is this an application to join the rather lonely "Frank Field" wing of the Labour party? It seems an odd platform from which to launch a bid for the leadership. What do you think he is up to?"
James Purnell has always been closely associated with Tony Blair, and my assumption is that the welfare Green Paper produced by the Government - which largely reflected the proposals which we had published six months earlier - put in place the things that Mr Blair would have liked to do but which Gordon Brown would not allow. Such is the weakness of the Prime Minister now that he will take on board anything which appears to allow him to claim that he has outmanoevured David Cameron - even if it means taking on policies he has previously rejected.
However the Labour Party and the Unions will not like the proposals, and I certainly do not now believe that James Purnell is planning to stand for the leadership. He's shot that fox with the Green Paper. I expect Mr Purnell to need Conservative support to get his proposals through the House of Commons in the face of a fair sized rebellion from the Labour left.
The irony is that it is now too late to make a real difference before the next election. It will probably take two to three years to get the new system up and running, and all Mr Purnell is doing now is laying the groundwork for the next Government to do the job properly. So if we win the election, this is all a big help to us.
Philip Wright
"Over the course of a first term Tory administration, say 4 years, what would you project are the potential costs, savings and numbers of people moved off the Invalidity Benefit roll likely to be? If there is a net saving will this be applied to further welfare schemes / projects or sunk in the general Treasury pot?"
Initially the proceeds from moving people off welfare into work would be cycled into paying for the programmes that got them there, using the system of payment by results which means money only changes hands once the independent providers have succeeded in placing a claimant in a job. However once the fee is fully paid, and as long as that person remains in work, the savings can then be used for other purposes. To this end, we have set ourselves a goal of realising sufficient savings from moving people off benefits and into work to end the so-called couple penalty in the tax credits system. The penalty has the effect of leaving some couples better off if they split up rather than stay together - something that is completely absurd given the problem we have with family breakdown in our society.
Even hitting the Government's own target for Incapacity Benefit would be equivalent to a cumulative saving of £3 billion a year by the end of a five year Parliament. This alone would be sufficient to meet that commitment to eliminate the couple penalty in the tax credit system.







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Comments
JR
August 5th, 2008 9:10pmSome of these answers fill me with dread especially on means testing. Both Conservative and Labour Governments in the past have completely messed up the benefits system by applying patches or 'transitional protection' in the system because of a fear of making anyone worse off - this is a recipe for further complexity, error and fraud. This is not a call to make millions of people worse off but if they want to tackle tax credits they have to be braver than this.
The savings mentioned in the last answer are highly unlikely to be realised - the Labour pledge is to reduce the numbers on Incapacity Benefits by 1 million in the next 7 years. Even if they manage this it will push at least half of those people onto Jobseekers Allowance (the cost of which)the Conservatives forgot to net off. Also if they are considering more radical reforms the evidence from the USA is that benefit+tax credit spending actually goes up as you move large numbers of people 'off' benefit roles.
I was almost convinced the Tories had thought through their proposals until I saw this.
mart
August 5th, 2008 10:38pmPublic servants should set an example. They should have defined-contribution (DC) schemes, and the amounts going into their pension pots should be published.
I say this not so that they should be criticised for the amounts (though they may be, who knows?) but so that the rest of us can see the benchmark for what makes a decent DC pension.
Someone in private employment, with a DC pension (that includes me) is left to guess what amounts will be appropriate. We make our decisions, then contribute, then wonder whether it'll be enough when retirement arrives.
If public servants also had DC schemes - as I think is now the norm in the private sector, though I stand to be corrected - then at least everyone would feel like they were on the same playing field.
How's about it then?
Trumpeter Lanfried
August 5th, 2008 11:18pmI hope the Tories appreciate that if they are elected by a landslide they will have a very small window of opportunity to make radical changes e.g. to civil service pensions. They can work miracles. But only in the first eighteen months. After that, it's too late.
BrianSJ
August 6th, 2008 10:53amClueless. Vacuous. Insipid. Already sold out to Sir Humphrey. Extremely disappointing. Can I suggest he is asked back in 3 months to provide proper answers?
Means-testing; so, continuing reliance on centralised nonsense figures held by the DWP, and top-down control. No plan that can be events-driven. No sense of urgency. We know that the personal accounts is garbage. Just say so and ditch it. Naive privatisation with NuLab-type targets ain't going to work either. No joining-up to simplification of employment legislation to create the jobs needed.
mart and trumpeter lanfried are right on urgency of public sector pensions reform.